Matthes & "Chase" format

EastFlorida
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Edited Date/Time 3/19/2016 8:15am
Steve is all about a "Chase" format, resetting the points mid-season or something close.

Heck, you might as well break down the 450's into an East and West like the 250's. Award an East 450 champ, a West 450 Champ and have them fight it out in Vegas as a two rider shootout for the Season Championship. The differenced being all 450 racer participate in both coasts..

Well, one shortcoming is that you could have RD5 (1) riding alone in Vegas...

Alternatively, they race with the rest of the field and are scored appropriately for an overall season Champ... East would be similar to a moto 1 score and west would be a moto 2 score with vegas being a tie breaker...

Seriously, the 450's are about being fit, tough, fast, prepared and some luck to win. I'd hate to see that given away....
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JSmith
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3/17/2016 5:46pm
No chase format! Keep it like it is or maybe switch to two 10-15 lap main events.
DemoDick
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3/17/2016 5:48pm
Chase format will ruin it. I personally do not want it. Open the dam tracks up to have some places to pass.
ga_pike
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3/17/2016 5:48pm
I don't know what the answer is... but I think there is room for improvement.

One thing I've noticed the past few seasons is the 250 racing seems "closer". I've often thought the 450's were too much for the tight indoor venues. I don't know if a displacement change is the answer either. Seems to have worked in AX for the positive.

As for a chase type format, there might be something to it. I'm not certain the industry would respond positively but who knows? Gotta do something to make the last 3-4 rounds worth something.
Sandberm
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3/17/2016 5:50pm
NO CHASE FORMAT!!!

Just because some journalist is getting bored covering the sport doesnt mean we have to change the points system.

The Shop

MxKing809
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3/17/2016 5:52pm
You guys are nuts. Can you imagine a reset right now where Dungey is 5 points up on Roczen, 7 points up on Tomac? It was basically be a 7 race all out brawl.

There would also be a lot more strategy. What if a guy comes in slightly injured or just coming back (Tomac) less than 100%? That guy could take the first 10 races to race back into shape, then turn it on in the last 7. I would love that.
EastFlorida
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3/17/2016 5:54pm
MxKing809 wrote:
You guys are nuts. Can you imagine a reset right now where Dungey is 5 points up on Roczen, 7 points up on Tomac? It was...
You guys are nuts. Can you imagine a reset right now where Dungey is 5 points up on Roczen, 7 points up on Tomac? It was basically be a 7 race all out brawl.

There would also be a lot more strategy. What if a guy comes in slightly injured or just coming back (Tomac) less than 100%? That guy could take the first 10 races to race back into shape, then turn it on in the last 7. I would love that.
Then, RD would be West Champ, maybe ET East Champ and the tie breaker for the season would be at Vegas...
JJO741
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3/17/2016 6:07pm
I despise the chase format and have serious doubts about it working in moto. Start awarding points for fastest lap time and heat race wins so those races actually mean something.
kkawboy14
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3/17/2016 6:15pm
I like the chase format!
Mit12
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3/17/2016 6:17pm
A chase format turns a 17 race season long battle into a reality TV show. Forget the drama queens of the world and let the man that has worked the harders before and during the season win by EARNING IT!

FELD knows that the real fan will watch no matter what they are trying to get the non fans to watch at the expense of the real fans. Make your self heard. Riders and teams don't want it so the fans need to speek up!
Gukamonster
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3/17/2016 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2016 6:23pm
Let's get a random product and have the riders guess the actual retail price for gate pick:


Then put all the race winners through an elimination round with the wheel:


And have the final round in Vegas come down to the "Showcase Showdown"



This should fit all of Comic Book Guy's criteria: Create new excitement, hold interest throughout the entire series, bring the title down to the final round, capture new viewers etc. Remeber, "We can always go back if it doesn't work".


Or maybe leave it as a very difficult to win 17 race series and don't try to appeal to those with the attention span of a turnip.
kiwifan
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3/17/2016 6:28pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2016 6:28pm
I am not opposed to the chase format, in order to compete in the final chase you still have to win or at least get podium finishes, therefore its not as though riders are going to put put around the track, they still have to get points, so it holds some appeal to me.

Yes its a bummer to a rider that may dominate the whole series up to the final chase whereas now it rewards it.

It does benefit a rider that does very well for a few (4-5 for example) rounds then misses a couple due to injury (or gets taken out, and finishes back in the pack) but because he won a few then he gets chance to win the title in the final chase.
MxKing809
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3/17/2016 6:32pm
How awesome would it be right now of their was a 1 race battle in Detroit to decides the 8th and final spot.
It's just like Fantasy bros.... adds excitement and a reason to care about every battle
731chopper
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3/17/2016 6:39pm
At some point those in charge are going to have to accept that 450s are too much indoors. 250cc max displacement is something that should be implemented. 450s are fine outdoors. And as a bonus kicker if I were in charge it'd be max displacement regardless of the type of motor...
3/17/2016 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2016 6:42pm
Look- it ain't gonna change much if it happens. If you are the fastest and most consistent, you will win anyway. The same guys will win, guarantee it! But it could create excitement, and keep guys from in 5-10 place from just giving up and waiting until next year. Try it, and see what happens. It will create more suspense, and the best guy will still win.
kiwifan
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3/17/2016 6:53pm
731chopper wrote:
At some point those in charge are going to have to accept that 450s are too much indoors. 250cc max displacement is something that should be...
At some point those in charge are going to have to accept that 450s are too much indoors. 250cc max displacement is something that should be implemented. 450s are fine outdoors. And as a bonus kicker if I were in charge it'd be max displacement regardless of the type of motor...
I think if more manufacturers made 350 4 strokes then they might look at them being the premier class?
3/17/2016 6:54pm
The hardcore fans, that debate SX on the inter web, they will hate it. They constitute such a small portion of the viewing audience that it won't matter. If you piss of 2% of your audience to gain 25% interest in the series, you've made the correct decision.

I'm a road race fan first, British Super Bike went that way in 2011, I didn't particularly agree. I still watched it and it makes for great drama the last 6 rounds.

SX does it, I'll still watch. But more importantly, others may keep tuning in because at round 10 Dungey's 88 point lead isn't a buzzkill.
holeshot413
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3/17/2016 7:11pm
731chopper wrote:
At some point those in charge are going to have to accept that 450s are too much indoors. 250cc max displacement is something that should be...
At some point those in charge are going to have to accept that 450s are too much indoors. 250cc max displacement is something that should be implemented. 450s are fine outdoors. And as a bonus kicker if I were in charge it'd be max displacement regardless of the type of motor...
kiwifan wrote:
I think if more manufacturers made 350 4 strokes then they might look at them being the premier class?
350 4stroke vs 350 2 stroke
holeshot413
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3/17/2016 7:13pm
JSmith wrote:
No chase format! Keep it like it is or maybe switch to two 10-15 lap main events.
THIS
It would give everyone a chance for a bad 1st Moto
3/17/2016 7:23pm
Do you guys like green eggs & ham?

cwtoyota
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3/17/2016 7:27pm
MxKing809 wrote:
You guys are nuts. Can you imagine a reset right now where Dungey is 5 points up on Roczen, 7 points up on Tomac? It was...
You guys are nuts. Can you imagine a reset right now where Dungey is 5 points up on Roczen, 7 points up on Tomac? It was basically be a 7 race all out brawl.

There would also be a lot more strategy. What if a guy comes in slightly injured or just coming back (Tomac) less than 100%? That guy could take the first 10 races to race back into shape, then turn it on in the last 7. I would love that.
I see that side of it, but then I think: what if the local chickenlips series I'm racing in each year went to a chase format?

Honestly I would go to a different local track or different local series to race.
If I were Dungey? I would go race the GPs if they bring in the chase format.


The other thing we have to consider is that almost everyone has a bad race somewhere along the season. They get taken out in a first turn pile-up, a mechanical problem causes them a loss of points, or they have some kind of illness, flu, etc.

With the chase format, when a guy has a bad race late in the season, it would be like a double whammy on points lost.
The chase won't necessarily reward pure consistency as much as late season consistency.

Ultimately the chase format is asking for a shortened season. If that's what everyone wants, why don't they just split the season up into two parts: Winter SX and Spring SX with 8 rounds each?
KirkChandler
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3/17/2016 7:29pm
A 7 race chase is too many (after 6 rounds Dungey had a 26 point lead and would have clinched a round early) and people were still going all out in the first 6 races this season.

Unless they do an elimination format like Nascar switched to there still is a chance for an anticlimactic finale.

The new Nascar Chase were they start with 16 then eliminate 4 drivers every 3 races makes it high drama over each of the 10 chase races with even higher drama at Chase Races #3,#6,#9 to make the cut and basically a winner take all at race #10. The first 26 races of the year are still important as racers need to win a race or be in the top 16 in points. The finale couple races before the chase are high drama for the drivers that are on the bubble.

The drama is high. But the championship is more of a crapshoot.

If Supercross did a chase were the first 12 races qualified the 10 chase finalists, race winners qualify in and would be awarded a bonus for the start of the chase.

The final 5 races would be elimation rounds. Were after races 13/14 riders in 8,9,10th in points are eliminated. After races 15/16 the riders 5,6,7th are eliminated. Leaving 4 racers eligible to win the title and the best finisher out of the top 4 would be the champion in Vegas. The Vegas track would need to be the best layout possible to ensure passing and a close race were the start doesn't dictate the race 100%. Back in 2006 we had the potential for the most epic race with RC and Reed tied and Bubba 5 points back and Bubba hole shotted, RC was second and Reed third and they stayed in formation a second apart for 20 laps never making a pass attempt.

It is the only way to guarantee a climactic championship. But you will have riders that were the best not win. Just like in NASCAR where Joey Logano last year was the best driver throughout the year and was wrecked out of the race while leading an elimination race and was knocked out of the championship.
cwtoyota
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3/17/2016 7:31pm
If Dungey builds up a 50 point lead which is reduced to 10 points going into the chase, then he has a couple mechanical DNFs and Ken Roczen wins Supercross championship by 2 points due to the chase system, isn't that a lot like winning the presidency without winning the popular vote?

Either way they would be screaming to see the birth certificate...

nickm
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3/17/2016 7:33pm
Chase is ridiculous. Works for roundy round because its the planets most monotonous motorsport.

I'd drop LCQs and the heats. Run two motos for 250s, two motos for 450s, top 20 guys only (qualifying heats earlier in the day). This would give it an MX format and the fans would only watch races that count for points vs. running out for beers during the lcqs.
Ryan_Roberts
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3/17/2016 7:54pm
I think a chase system is an insult to the amount of effort teams and riders put out striving to be the best and get near the top.

If it changes to chase series and let's say for example tomac wins his first sx title, good for him but in my opinion that chase series title is not as significant and memorable as RDs 17 round full series title.

I would assume most of these guys want to actually earn a championship, not just get lucky for a few rounds at the end.
wreckitrandy
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3/17/2016 8:00pm
I can't believe this is even being discussed. You talk about weak.
FastEddy
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3/17/2016 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2016 8:04pm
nickm wrote:
Chase is ridiculous. Works for roundy round because its the planets most monotonous motorsport. I'd drop LCQs and the heats. Run two motos for 250s, two...
Chase is ridiculous. Works for roundy round because its the planets most monotonous motorsport.

I'd drop LCQs and the heats. Run two motos for 250s, two motos for 450s, top 20 guys only (qualifying heats earlier in the day). This would give it an MX format and the fans would only watch races that count for points vs. running out for beers during the lcqs.
Here's what they do for AX.
2 12 lap mains...
http://racerxonline.com/2012/11/03/the-list-new-formats
The folks at Feld Motorsports have been getting their creative on, as the new Amsoil Arenacross Series fomat announced today makes even the Monster Energy Cup look tame. Click here to read the full press release, but we'll sum up some of the moves quickly here: Heat races seed bracket racing, with the winner of the bracket tournament earning one championship point each night. Then it's on to the main events, which will consistent of two 12-lap races instead of the single 25-lapper of the past. Both mains pay points, with 16 points for a race win and one point less for each position beyond that.
There will also be inverted starting positions for the second main event (picked at random to prevent sandbagging) and a "chase" style championship format, with the points getting reset with four rounds to go. It's a lot to digest, but that just means the racing will be that much more interesting when the season begins.
Brackets, two mains, inverted starts, chase formats--that's a lot to digest. Some of these ideas have been tried before. For this week's The List, we're piling through some other unique formats tried at this level.
newmann
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3/17/2016 8:07pm
It won't be right until there is a Yeezy Holeshot Award.
bobojim
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3/17/2016 8:15pm
ga_pike wrote:
I don't know what the answer is... but I think there is room for improvement. One thing I've noticed the past few seasons is the 250...
I don't know what the answer is... but I think there is room for improvement.

One thing I've noticed the past few seasons is the 250 racing seems "closer". I've often thought the 450's were too much for the tight indoor venues. I don't know if a displacement change is the answer either. Seems to have worked in AX for the positive.

As for a chase type format, there might be something to it. I'm not certain the industry would respond positively but who knows? Gotta do something to make the last 3-4 rounds worth something.
I am a bit confused. So to stop the last 3 to 4 rounds from sometimes not "counting" you make the first 8 rounds not count at all. Makes sense.
Crush
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3/17/2016 8:19pm
When you guys say it won't work, it'll ruin it, what do you think is actually going to happen?

If we take right now, and this next week Dungey now has a 5 point lead on Kenny who has 3 on Eli who has 2 on Cole... And we get 7 races of fury to decide it, isn't that exciting?

And if Dungey doesn't win, but the rules are the same for everyone, does that really matter?

If it doesn't work, it can be changed back. But what if it results in some furious racing, some controversy and some excitement, wouldn't that be good?
731chopper
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3/17/2016 8:29pm
TripleFive wrote:
Do you guys like green eggs & ham?

Good parallel. I read that book to my son almost every night.

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