Russia

tvo314
Posts
776
Joined
5/9/2009
Location
USA
12/27/2015 12:51am
kongols wrote:
Yes, but elections are very moot in Russia. The power has not changed hands for the past 15 years.
IWreckALot wrote:
Feels real N. Koreaish in Russia. Lol. Except they have access to a little more internet.
Olson wrote:
A little more, but they still censor a large part of the net.
And people are allowed to travel in and out of the country freely for the most part. I'm no fan of Putin, but N. Korea is on a whole other level.
Rooster
Posts
4432
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edmonton, CA
12/27/2015 1:01am
Twist1 wrote:
So Socialism will solve the financial problems facing the West? Specifically the US, if we tax the 1% ers@ 100%, we dont even see a hesitation...
So Socialism will solve the financial problems facing the West?
Specifically the US, if we tax the 1% ers@ 100%, we dont even see a hesitation in our debt crisis.
We have a huge entitlement budget, a huge immigration quota,and all of it growing.
Look at the reaction in Europe with this modest refugee population increase.
Money runs out, then the machine turns. Dont see a bright future in that scenario.
So then if socialism sucks so bad, privatize your police departments, fire departments, public schools, libraries, public works departments and your military.

If you're all too apathetic to hold your public officials to a high enough standard to run your government efficiently, then private industry is really gonna take y'all for ride.
philG
Posts
11069
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
12/27/2015 3:51am
Rooster wrote:
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00 My deductible is $0.00 That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs...
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00

My deductible is $0.00

That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs, but drugs are much, much cheaper here. Probably because our prime minister was never asinine enough to sign into a law a measure that prevented anybody from negotiating drug prices to lower than the drug companies asking price.

Think about that for a second. How bad did old Georgie W. Bush sell you guys down the river with that one? Imagine if Obama signed in to law that nobody could question or negotiate the price of a new vehicle. What kind of outrage would there be over that?
Same here.. the concept of having to pay for medical treatment is as third world as it comes IMO..

The NHS in the UK isnt perfect, but i having to worry if i can be ill and pay the bills is something nobody in europe has to think about,
APLMAN99
Posts
12653
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
12/27/2015 8:13am
motogrady wrote:
The sore throat I get once a year. If I would have started this 2 years ago, there would already be 17 large in the account...

The sore throat I get once a year.

If I would have started this 2 years ago, there would already be 17 large in the account.

And before anyone says, well, what if you get a catastrophic illness, therein lies the rub.

No man should charge the kind of money that is charged for a life threatening issue that they do.
Slash the medical, fees, import the drugs from China, start churning out doctors from government schools,
put a 250,000.00 limit on malpractice awards with lawyers gettin a max of 2% fee, set up a no profit government fund
to fund the awards and get insurance companies the hell out of all of it.
Hut wrote:
10 grand ain't shit. Catastrophic? Just a knee replacement your looking at 60 grand. I don't want anything Chinese. I think a single payer system is...
10 grand ain't shit. Catastrophic? Just a knee replacement your looking at 60 grand.

I don't want anything Chinese. I think a single payer system is the way to go.
motogrady wrote:
Maybe so. All I know is there are too many foxes in the hen house. As far as not wanting anything Chinese, that's cool. In a...

Maybe so.

All I know is there are too many foxes in the hen house.

As far as not wanting anything Chinese, that's cool.
In a life or death situation, when your insurance company denies a treatment, because of the cost,
but would do it if a generic med from overseas made it acceptable to them, I have a feeling you'd
change your tune pretty quick.

60 grand, just for a knee, half the price of a modest home.
Licensed thievery.
Insurance companies deny treatment if it's not in the contract, not simply because of cost.

People need to educate themselves, but instead they simply choose the lowest premium products without researching what the benefits are. I see it all the time at work.

One younger guy I've worked with, however is one of the smart ones. He looked at the little add one to the employer provided policy as true benefits, realized that the total cost of the LTD,, critical illness, etc.was less than a night out drinking with his buddies each month and decided to get covered.

He was unbelievably healthy at the time, but when the doctor gave him the news a few years later that he had a pretty rare form of leukemia he didn't have to worry as much as some about the cost of treatment.

Turns out that he's still hospitalized, nearly 20 months straight now, and hasn't had a single claim denied by his insurance companies.

People can talk about saving money to pay for their care with cash, but there's no way in a case like that and it can happen to any of us, no matter how healthy you believe you are or how fit or tough you think you are.

The Shop

motogrady
Posts
3931
Joined
1/27/2008
Location
USA
12/27/2015 9:04am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2015 9:06am
Hut wrote:
10 grand ain't shit. Catastrophic? Just a knee replacement your looking at 60 grand. I don't want anything Chinese. I think a single payer system is...
10 grand ain't shit. Catastrophic? Just a knee replacement your looking at 60 grand.

I don't want anything Chinese. I think a single payer system is the way to go.
motogrady wrote:
Maybe so. All I know is there are too many foxes in the hen house. As far as not wanting anything Chinese, that's cool. In a...

Maybe so.

All I know is there are too many foxes in the hen house.

As far as not wanting anything Chinese, that's cool.
In a life or death situation, when your insurance company denies a treatment, because of the cost,
but would do it if a generic med from overseas made it acceptable to them, I have a feeling you'd
change your tune pretty quick.

60 grand, just for a knee, half the price of a modest home.
Licensed thievery.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Insurance companies deny treatment if it's not in the contract, not simply because of cost. People need to educate themselves, but instead they simply choose the...
Insurance companies deny treatment if it's not in the contract, not simply because of cost.

People need to educate themselves, but instead they simply choose the lowest premium products without researching what the benefits are. I see it all the time at work.

One younger guy I've worked with, however is one of the smart ones. He looked at the little add one to the employer provided policy as true benefits, realized that the total cost of the LTD,, critical illness, etc.was less than a night out drinking with his buddies each month and decided to get covered.

He was unbelievably healthy at the time, but when the doctor gave him the news a few years later that he had a pretty rare form of leukemia he didn't have to worry as much as some about the cost of treatment.

Turns out that he's still hospitalized, nearly 20 months straight now, and hasn't had a single claim denied by his insurance companies.

People can talk about saving money to pay for their care with cash, but there's no way in a case like that and it can happen to any of us, no matter how healthy you believe you are or how fit or tough you think you are.
And the contract is created around what the exposure to the company is projected to be. Which usually are so
complex and hard to read and understand most just sign. It's like a fucking game. And before you say it's my fault for not reading the fine print, what, those without the patience or ability to comprehend just get left in the desert with no water to die? Wtf is that?

Look, I'm not saying the guy on the production line, actually making the pills at 16.50 an hour is the problem.

But check out how much the CEO of Highmark pays himself. Multi millions, every year. Same with the top level
management , at least a million a year per exec. Every year. And we by law have to deal with them. They need more money,
No problem, raise the rates. Mine went up 26% this year. Who do I see about that? My pay went up 50 cents an
hour.

Then see what the drug makers make, hiding behind the current laws they back and pay for.

Then, add the cost the government has incurred by requiring everyone's medical records to be amassed and filed with them, it's no wonder we are where we are.

And the kicker is, even tho at the end of this year, I will have paid in 27,000.00, and because there's a 1,000.00
deductible, I still have to pay for a cut hand or medicine when I get the flu.

It's off the scale, it's crazy.
APLMAN99
Posts
12653
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
12/27/2015 9:21am
motogrady wrote:
And the contract is created around what the exposure to the company is projected to be. Which usually are so complex and hard to read and...
And the contract is created around what the exposure to the company is projected to be. Which usually are so
complex and hard to read and understand most just sign. It's like a fucking game. And before you say it's my fault for not reading the fine print, what, those without the patience or ability to comprehend just get left in the desert with no water to die? Wtf is that?

Look, I'm not saying the guy on the production line, actually making the pills at 16.50 an hour is the problem.

But check out how much the CEO of Highmark pays himself. Multi millions, every year. Same with the top level
management , at least a million a year per exec. Every year. And we by law have to deal with them. They need more money,
No problem, raise the rates. Mine went up 26% this year. Who do I see about that? My pay went up 50 cents an
hour.

Then see what the drug makers make, hiding behind the current laws they back and pay for.

Then, add the cost the government has incurred by requiring everyone's medical records to be amassed and filed with them, it's no wonder we are where we are.

And the kicker is, even tho at the end of this year, I will have paid in 27,000.00, and because there's a 1,000.00
deductible, I still have to pay for a cut hand or medicine when I get the flu.

It's off the scale, it's crazy.
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to try to protect your health.

That's a far bigger part of the problem we're in, overall. Consumers who place no value on the product until they get into a pickle and then want to find someone to blame for their ignorance of what they purchased.
Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
12/27/2015 9:37am
Learning about health care and how insurance works is a lot like anything else in life. You can read and study all you want but it doesnt make any sense until you do it. Or in this case, go to the doctor sick, and file a claim.

motogrady
Posts
3931
Joined
1/27/2008
Location
USA
12/27/2015 9:39am
motogrady wrote:
And the contract is created around what the exposure to the company is projected to be. Which usually are so complex and hard to read and...
And the contract is created around what the exposure to the company is projected to be. Which usually are so
complex and hard to read and understand most just sign. It's like a fucking game. And before you say it's my fault for not reading the fine print, what, those without the patience or ability to comprehend just get left in the desert with no water to die? Wtf is that?

Look, I'm not saying the guy on the production line, actually making the pills at 16.50 an hour is the problem.

But check out how much the CEO of Highmark pays himself. Multi millions, every year. Same with the top level
management , at least a million a year per exec. Every year. And we by law have to deal with them. They need more money,
No problem, raise the rates. Mine went up 26% this year. Who do I see about that? My pay went up 50 cents an
hour.

Then see what the drug makers make, hiding behind the current laws they back and pay for.

Then, add the cost the government has incurred by requiring everyone's medical records to be amassed and filed with them, it's no wonder we are where we are.

And the kicker is, even tho at the end of this year, I will have paid in 27,000.00, and because there's a 1,000.00
deductible, I still have to pay for a cut hand or medicine when I get the flu.

It's off the scale, it's crazy.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to...
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to try to protect your health.

That's a far bigger part of the problem we're in, overall. Consumers who place no value on the product until they get into a pickle and then want to find someone to blame for their ignorance of what they purchased.
Ha, I'll give you honest.

Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream of paper.
All the insurance companies would counter with just raising the rates, or drop that part of the plan if it did not continue
to support the lifestyle they consider just to them.

That's honest, that's the reality.

Tell me I don't speak the truth.
APLMAN99
Posts
12653
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
12/27/2015 9:59am
motogrady wrote:
And the contract is created around what the exposure to the company is projected to be. Which usually are so complex and hard to read and...
And the contract is created around what the exposure to the company is projected to be. Which usually are so
complex and hard to read and understand most just sign. It's like a fucking game. And before you say it's my fault for not reading the fine print, what, those without the patience or ability to comprehend just get left in the desert with no water to die? Wtf is that?

Look, I'm not saying the guy on the production line, actually making the pills at 16.50 an hour is the problem.

But check out how much the CEO of Highmark pays himself. Multi millions, every year. Same with the top level
management , at least a million a year per exec. Every year. And we by law have to deal with them. They need more money,
No problem, raise the rates. Mine went up 26% this year. Who do I see about that? My pay went up 50 cents an
hour.

Then see what the drug makers make, hiding behind the current laws they back and pay for.

Then, add the cost the government has incurred by requiring everyone's medical records to be amassed and filed with them, it's no wonder we are where we are.

And the kicker is, even tho at the end of this year, I will have paid in 27,000.00, and because there's a 1,000.00
deductible, I still have to pay for a cut hand or medicine when I get the flu.

It's off the scale, it's crazy.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to...
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to try to protect your health.

That's a far bigger part of the problem we're in, overall. Consumers who place no value on the product until they get into a pickle and then want to find someone to blame for their ignorance of what they purchased.
motogrady wrote:
Ha, I'll give you honest. Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream...
Ha, I'll give you honest.

Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream of paper.
All the insurance companies would counter with just raising the rates, or drop that part of the plan if it did not continue
to support the lifestyle they consider just to them.

That's honest, that's the reality.

Tell me I don't speak the truth.
You don't, but I'll definitely give you credit for being passionate despite not being based in reality.......
motogrady
Posts
3931
Joined
1/27/2008
Location
USA
12/27/2015 10:37am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to...
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to try to protect your health.

That's a far bigger part of the problem we're in, overall. Consumers who place no value on the product until they get into a pickle and then want to find someone to blame for their ignorance of what they purchased.
motogrady wrote:
Ha, I'll give you honest. Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream...
Ha, I'll give you honest.

Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream of paper.
All the insurance companies would counter with just raising the rates, or drop that part of the plan if it did not continue
to support the lifestyle they consider just to them.

That's honest, that's the reality.

Tell me I don't speak the truth.
APLMAN99 wrote:
You don't, but I'll definitely give you credit for being passionate despite not being based in reality.......
Well, enlighten me then dear sir.

Where do I not speak the truth?
Where am I not based in reality?

Do the health care companies not pay their top management outrageous sums?
What drug making companies do not return outrageous profits here in the US?
Can I buy any medicine manufactured outside of the USA borders?
Have a whole legion of government office workers, who by the way received almost a 2 percent raise this year
while the rest got zilch, not been created and their pay loaded on the average guys back?

Enlighten me, where am I not based in reality?
hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN, USA
12/27/2015 11:04am
Profits and profit margins are usually very different.

nytsmaC
Posts
5946
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off, CA
12/27/2015 11:05am
Sandberm wrote:
^^^^ I know thats a long winded post. But if you want to know what its like to be self employed and buy your own plan...
^^^^ I know thats a long winded post.

But if you want to know what its like to be self employed and buy your own plan, then read it,
Rooster wrote:
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00 My deductible is $0.00 That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs...
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00

My deductible is $0.00

That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs, but drugs are much, much cheaper here. Probably because our prime minister was never asinine enough to sign into a law a measure that prevented anybody from negotiating drug prices to lower than the drug companies asking price.

Think about that for a second. How bad did old Georgie W. Bush sell you guys down the river with that one? Imagine if Obama signed in to law that nobody could question or negotiate the price of a new vehicle. What kind of outrage would there be over that?
Free health care is great, until you need to use it.

Ever needed an MRI or anything like that? No problem, we'll put you on the list. Should be able to get to you in about 16 months or so.

MRI's done, looks like you do indeed need surgery. We'll put you on the bottom of this other list. Thanks for your patience.
rob162
Posts
608
Joined
7/8/2015
Location
USA
12/27/2015 11:09am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to...
Let's be honest, you'd probably spend plenty of time researching your next bike or car purchase, but you just can't be bothered by researching policies to try to protect your health.

That's a far bigger part of the problem we're in, overall. Consumers who place no value on the product until they get into a pickle and then want to find someone to blame for their ignorance of what they purchased.
motogrady wrote:
Ha, I'll give you honest. Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream...
Ha, I'll give you honest.

Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream of paper.
All the insurance companies would counter with just raising the rates, or drop that part of the plan if it did not continue
to support the lifestyle they consider just to them.

That's honest, that's the reality.

Tell me I don't speak the truth.
APLMAN99 wrote:
You don't, but I'll definitely give you credit for being passionate despite not being based in reality.......
Actually motogrady is spot on. I work with alot of insurance companies for home restoration and i see this all the time. They will do and say anything to maximize gains and minimize loss. I have a very close friend of the family who is quite high up in state farm.25 yrs at a exec level. I still remember what he said at a vacation we all had when Osama care got passed as he calls it. "You think health care is high now that idiot just gave us willy Wonka ' s golden fuckin ticket. My bosses have been praying for this to pass cause now we have a blank check with your name on it and you HAVE to pay or else you still fuckin pay! Mark my words this is gonna be a free for all. His program is not even theoretically sustainable for his government subsidies and free health care to the people that can't afford health care. An we know this but we don't care because 2 things will happen. 1 government will raise the min wage to reduce discounted and free care. To raise more money for the system, which will eventually ruin the middle class. An because We now can drop plans and change plans as we feel necessary to maximize our profits any way we see fit. There is no more free or competitive market as we have known it." And so far everything this guy says is gonna happen happens.
kongols
Posts
24222
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga, LV
12/27/2015 12:12pm Edited Date/Time 12/27/2015 12:17pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Free health care is great, until you need to use it. Ever needed an MRI or anything like that? No problem, we'll put you on the...
Free health care is great, until you need to use it.

Ever needed an MRI or anything like that? No problem, we'll put you on the list. Should be able to get to you in about 16 months or so.

MRI's done, looks like you do indeed need surgery. We'll put you on the bottom of this other list. Thanks for your patience.
That`s how it goes here too. Last year when I needed to get a bunch of tests done I paid out of my pocket to get them done the same week. For free- 4 month waiting in line.
philG
Posts
11069
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
12/27/2015 12:22pm
But you have a choice.. if i go to the hospital, i dont need to take my chequebook.

Waiting times here are not to bad, wife had major surgery, would have bankrupted us in the US for sure.
motogrady
Posts
3931
Joined
1/27/2008
Location
USA
12/27/2015 12:51pm
I dunno.

One part of me says just nationalize the whole Effin industry, morph it all into Medicare and be done with it.
You work in health care or drug making you work for the federal government.
You get paid by them out of the taxes they take in.

But, then I think of the job I did last month at the local Social Security office, fixing a refrigeration unit.
4 people with stacks of files, everywhere. Just fucking off like they were on lunch break all day. First class furniture,
Top of the line equipment, that sits there waiting for someone to use it.
No, Bernie Sanders can have that vision.

One part of me says just can it all, go the pure Capitalist route, let the market decide who gets what and pays accordingly. For that to work, the gloves have to come off. No more patent royalties after, say, 3 years.
Caps on malpractice awards. Free market drugs, available from anywhere on the globe. With maybe a safety net
Like Medicare run by the government for those that truly can't provide for themselves.

Or, make the whole industry one big utility. Like the electric or water companies. Non profit, but good paying jobs
for those that want to heal people. Subject to review by the public any time a major change or rate increase is needed.
I know those guys work, they jump when there's a gas leak or power outage.

One thing is for sure, drug makers and insurance providers, can not continue to enjoy the free rein they now enjoy.

Twist1
Posts
382
Joined
1/3/2015
Location
EI, NC, USA
12/27/2015 1:06pm
philG wrote:
But you have a choice.. if i go to the hospital, i dont need to take my chequebook. Waiting times here are not to bad, wife...
But you have a choice.. if i go to the hospital, i dont need to take my chequebook.

Waiting times here are not to bad, wife had major surgery, would have bankrupted us in the US for sure.
You get that info where?
-I owned a business for 20 years with 25 plus employees.
-I have 2 kids, 1 in college
- my wife owns a small insurance business
I provided health insurance, 401K,
Cafeteria plans. My wife provides insurance for 3 employees

Been at it for a long time. Ebbs and flows. Insurance companies suck. Govt gives them a license to steal. People steal. People lie. People decided their dogs needed dental. Things went south.
There are private market solutions. Most cant understand that. That bodes well for bloated Government, Big Corporations, and Socialists. Pitiful mentality IMO. Someone take care of things, us peasants are simple minded.
No thanks.
Hope World Peas keeps everyone safe. Doubt it.
philG
Posts
11069
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
12/27/2015 2:22pm
philG wrote:
But you have a choice.. if i go to the hospital, i dont need to take my chequebook. Waiting times here are not to bad, wife...
But you have a choice.. if i go to the hospital, i dont need to take my chequebook.

Waiting times here are not to bad, wife had major surgery, would have bankrupted us in the US for sure.
Twist1 wrote:
You get that info where? -I owned a business for 20 years with 25 plus employees. -I have 2 kids, 1 in college - my wife...
You get that info where?
-I owned a business for 20 years with 25 plus employees.
-I have 2 kids, 1 in college
- my wife owns a small insurance business
I provided health insurance, 401K,
Cafeteria plans. My wife provides insurance for 3 employees

Been at it for a long time. Ebbs and flows. Insurance companies suck. Govt gives them a license to steal. People steal. People lie. People decided their dogs needed dental. Things went south.
There are private market solutions. Most cant understand that. That bodes well for bloated Government, Big Corporations, and Socialists. Pitiful mentality IMO. Someone take care of things, us peasants are simple minded.
No thanks.
Hope World Peas keeps everyone safe. Doubt it.
i was being metaphorical... i dont have to wonder or hope that some policy i have paid into may or may not cover stuff.


How do guys who race get cover ?? What does that cost
APLMAN99
Posts
12653
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
12/27/2015 6:40pm
motogrady wrote:
Ha, I'll give you honest. Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream...
Ha, I'll give you honest.

Okay, we all get a magnifying glass out, consult our attorney, and find the golden nugget or 2 in that ream of paper.
All the insurance companies would counter with just raising the rates, or drop that part of the plan if it did not continue
to support the lifestyle they consider just to them.

That's honest, that's the reality.

Tell me I don't speak the truth.
APLMAN99 wrote:
You don't, but I'll definitely give you credit for being passionate despite not being based in reality.......
motogrady wrote:
Well, enlighten me then dear sir. Where do I not speak the truth? Where am I not based in reality? Do the health care companies not...
Well, enlighten me then dear sir.

Where do I not speak the truth?
Where am I not based in reality?

Do the health care companies not pay their top management outrageous sums?
What drug making companies do not return outrageous profits here in the US?
Can I buy any medicine manufactured outside of the USA borders?
Have a whole legion of government office workers, who by the way received almost a 2 percent raise this year
while the rest got zilch, not been created and their pay loaded on the average guys back?

Enlighten me, where am I not based in reality?
You don't speak the truth in that you don't need a magnifying glass (unless your vision is incredibly poor, of course).
You don't speak the truth because policies don't take up a ream of paper.
You don't speak the truth because there are no hidden "golden nuggets" that you need to search for.
Etc., etc., etc.

You ARE, however, doing a decent job of illustrating the hysterical hyperbole that comes from ignorance pretty well.........
Twist1
Posts
382
Joined
1/3/2015
Location
EI, NC, USA
12/28/2015 6:35am
It is an incredibly complex issue/problem/necessity. Nobody is right or wrong on this thread in IMO.
I do personally believe that if regulations would allow a free market system to do what works globally, remove certian restrictions, the majority of people could have excellent medical treatment they can afford. The exceptions should be cared for by our tax dollars, with a broad stroke.
motogrady
Posts
3931
Joined
1/27/2008
Location
USA
12/28/2015 7:27am
APLMAN99 wrote:
You don't, but I'll definitely give you credit for being passionate despite not being based in reality.......
motogrady wrote:
Well, enlighten me then dear sir. Where do I not speak the truth? Where am I not based in reality? Do the health care companies not...
Well, enlighten me then dear sir.

Where do I not speak the truth?
Where am I not based in reality?

Do the health care companies not pay their top management outrageous sums?
What drug making companies do not return outrageous profits here in the US?
Can I buy any medicine manufactured outside of the USA borders?
Have a whole legion of government office workers, who by the way received almost a 2 percent raise this year
while the rest got zilch, not been created and their pay loaded on the average guys back?

Enlighten me, where am I not based in reality?
APLMAN99 wrote:
You don't speak the truth in that you don't need a magnifying glass (unless your vision is incredibly poor, of course). You don't speak the truth...
You don't speak the truth in that you don't need a magnifying glass (unless your vision is incredibly poor, of course).
You don't speak the truth because policies don't take up a ream of paper.
You don't speak the truth because there are no hidden "golden nuggets" that you need to search for.
Etc., etc., etc.

You ARE, however, doing a decent job of illustrating the hysterical hyperbole that comes from ignorance pretty well.........

Well, I have average vision and have a hard time reading the fine print in my policy.
And yes, sit the booklet along with the policy and very well may be half a ream of paper,
And if you add the law itself , tell me that isn't a ream of paper. Or 2.
But I guess I'm not supposed to be concerned with the law, just take Barry's word that it's all fair and good.
And what you call an add on to employer, that only a smart guy would see, I call a golden nugget.

Now, how about addressing the real substance of this discussion, instead of the petty nit picking you seem to relish.
Without the condescending, somewhat pompous and borderline insulting tone.

Or should I just eat cake?
philG
Posts
11069
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Location
GB
12/28/2015 9:13am
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm... cake
12/28/2015 9:47am
Sandberm wrote:
^^^^ I know thats a long winded post. But if you want to know what its like to be self employed and buy your own plan...
^^^^ I know thats a long winded post.

But if you want to know what its like to be self employed and buy your own plan, then read it,
Rooster wrote:
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00 My deductible is $0.00 That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs...
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00

My deductible is $0.00

That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs, but drugs are much, much cheaper here. Probably because our prime minister was never asinine enough to sign into a law a measure that prevented anybody from negotiating drug prices to lower than the drug companies asking price.

Think about that for a second. How bad did old Georgie W. Bush sell you guys down the river with that one? Imagine if Obama signed in to law that nobody could question or negotiate the price of a new vehicle. What kind of outrage would there be over that?
Not totally true Rooster. Have a look at your personal income tax rate compared to your average American. And, then, if you make over 100k/year, really look at your new income tAx rates. Then, as it goes up, so does the tax rate. You and I are paying very similar to what they are. Do I mind? Not really. Where it's good in Canada is in the case of serious illness. At least we typically arent ruined.
Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
12/28/2015 10:12am
Twist1 wrote:
It is an incredibly complex issue/problem/necessity. Nobody is right or wrong on this thread in IMO. I do personally believe that if regulations would allow a...
It is an incredibly complex issue/problem/necessity. Nobody is right or wrong on this thread in IMO.
I do personally believe that if regulations would allow a free market system to do what works globally, remove certian restrictions, the majority of people could have excellent medical treatment they can afford. The exceptions should be cared for by our tax dollars, with a broad stroke.
It is.

I got in an excited discussion with my sister and brother in law over Obamacare back in 2012 or 13. I wasnt for Obamacare but I was for change in our health insurance system based on the fact that I didnt like it that my friend who got diagnosed with cancer and lost his job at the same time when the recession started, ALMOST lost his health insurance too. If that had happened no other insurer would have picked him up due to a pre-existing condition.

What ended up happening, he was able to keep his insurance that the company was previously providing (you call that cobra right?) but then he had to pay the full premium. His premium ballooned to over $500/month. Well....the increase in premium plus losing his job, plus all the other healthcare costs of having cancer took all of his life savings. He made the comment one time that if he was late paying his premium by one day, he feared that would be all the insurer would need to cancel him in the middle of his cancer treatments. Whether thats true or not Im not sure, but we've all heard the horror stories havnt we?

When I explained this to my bro in law he said, "Do you want me to pay for him?" He told me that the strong survive and the weak die and thats the way its always been. I agreed with him to a certain point but then I told him that I thought perhaps the percentage of weak has gotten a little too big and this is what is bringing about change. Its what got Obama elected twice. That divide between those who have and those who do not has gotten too big.

Or at least the Democrats have gotten enough people to believe this.
Dick Piano
Posts
11
Joined
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Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
12/28/2015 6:06pm
Sandberm wrote:
^^^^ I know thats a long winded post. But if you want to know what its like to be self employed and buy your own plan...
^^^^ I know thats a long winded post.

But if you want to know what its like to be self employed and buy your own plan, then read it,
Rooster wrote:
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00 My deductible is $0.00 That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs...
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00

My deductible is $0.00

That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs, but drugs are much, much cheaper here. Probably because our prime minister was never asinine enough to sign into a law a measure that prevented anybody from negotiating drug prices to lower than the drug companies asking price.

Think about that for a second. How bad did old Georgie W. Bush sell you guys down the river with that one? Imagine if Obama signed in to law that nobody could question or negotiate the price of a new vehicle. What kind of outrage would there be over that?
Not totally true Rooster. Have a look at your personal income tax rate compared to your average American. And, then, if you make over 100k/year, really...
Not totally true Rooster. Have a look at your personal income tax rate compared to your average American. And, then, if you make over 100k/year, really look at your new income tAx rates. Then, as it goes up, so does the tax rate. You and I are paying very similar to what they are. Do I mind? Not really. Where it's good in Canada is in the case of serious illness. At least we typically arent ruined.
This guy is correct. In America they can deny paying your bill for ANY Reason they want. INCLUDING, not covering extreme sports. MX, Skiing, snowboarding, riding in a SXS, you name it. Leaving you on the hook for the entire bill. Which in a major injury could be millions.

Thats why you always have to "Fall off the roof"

Insurance is NOT in the business of losing money. if they can NOT pay, they won't.
Socialized healthcare is not a business for profit they way health insurance works here.

VA and Vets get a 'Socialized" healthcare here. And its good.

And whoever said up there in Canada you have to WAIT for a procedure, I have 2 procedures scheduled 3 and 5 months out. OVER BOOKED. Here is the USA.

So our system is shit. It's no better in any way shape or form. And Bankruptcy is a major concern when INSURANCE DENIES YOUR CLAIM.

Oh, and some of those countries with socialized healthcare have a 15% flat tax rate for citizens. Less for corporations. Do your research.

I'll take that ANY DAY. ALL DAY. Starting TODAY.
ns503
Posts
4602
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NS Toolies, CA
12/28/2015 6:17pm
Rooster wrote:
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00 My deductible is $0.00 That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs...
I'm self employed and my monthly health care payments are $0.00

My deductible is $0.00

That covers most health care except basic optometry, dental and drugs, but drugs are much, much cheaper here. Probably because our prime minister was never asinine enough to sign into a law a measure that prevented anybody from negotiating drug prices to lower than the drug companies asking price.

Think about that for a second. How bad did old Georgie W. Bush sell you guys down the river with that one? Imagine if Obama signed in to law that nobody could question or negotiate the price of a new vehicle. What kind of outrage would there be over that?
Not totally true Rooster. Have a look at your personal income tax rate compared to your average American. And, then, if you make over 100k/year, really...
Not totally true Rooster. Have a look at your personal income tax rate compared to your average American. And, then, if you make over 100k/year, really look at your new income tAx rates. Then, as it goes up, so does the tax rate. You and I are paying very similar to what they are. Do I mind? Not really. Where it's good in Canada is in the case of serious illness. At least we typically arent ruined.
Dick Piano wrote:
This guy is correct. In America they can deny paying your bill for ANY Reason they want. INCLUDING, not covering extreme sports. MX, Skiing, snowboarding, riding...
This guy is correct. In America they can deny paying your bill for ANY Reason they want. INCLUDING, not covering extreme sports. MX, Skiing, snowboarding, riding in a SXS, you name it. Leaving you on the hook for the entire bill. Which in a major injury could be millions.

Thats why you always have to "Fall off the roof"

Insurance is NOT in the business of losing money. if they can NOT pay, they won't.
Socialized healthcare is not a business for profit they way health insurance works here.

VA and Vets get a 'Socialized" healthcare here. And its good.

And whoever said up there in Canada you have to WAIT for a procedure, I have 2 procedures scheduled 3 and 5 months out. OVER BOOKED. Here is the USA.

So our system is shit. It's no better in any way shape or form. And Bankruptcy is a major concern when INSURANCE DENIES YOUR CLAIM.

Oh, and some of those countries with socialized healthcare have a 15% flat tax rate for citizens. Less for corporations. Do your research.

I'll take that ANY DAY. ALL DAY. Starting TODAY.
I'm not sure who you're saying is correct here, but I'm with Rooster.

What some are saying they are paying in health insurance premiums, is more than I am paying in in total income tax. That's messed up.
Twist1
Posts
382
Joined
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Location
EI, NC, USA
12/28/2015 6:25pm
Our family of four was $675 per month pre Obamacare. We now are at renewal of $1150 per month. BlueCrossBlueShield. Worse coverage. Killing us.
Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
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Location
Pasco, WA, USA
12/29/2015 9:46am
Sandberm wrote:
Obama might do an executive order gun ban...is that good reason for us to revolt? The wife an I were looking over next years health insurance...
Obama might do an executive order gun ban...is that good reason for us to revolt?

The wife an I were looking over next years health insurance plan. We have to spend over $16,000 before the insurance starts picking up the tab on any procedures. $530/month premium + $9000 family deductible + 20% of cost between 9 an 12k.

Thats unreasonable isnt it?
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don't think that's entirely accurate. Your insurance coverage could start paying much sooner than your $16K figure. If you suddenly were hospitalized, for example, you...
I don't think that's entirely accurate. Your insurance coverage could start paying much sooner than your $16K figure. If you suddenly were hospitalized, for example, you wouldn't have to exhaust the "family" deductible before insurance started to pay, only the individual. Your wife would have her own, also, since she's the only other person on the policy. If you had a 3rd, 4th, 5th family member on the plan, their expenses would go towards the "family" deductible portion as well so that potentially some family members might not have any deductible before being covered and the OOP max may even be met.

For your friend with the student in grad school, she should apply for her own policy. If she's filing her own taxes, she'd probably receive no cost insurance.
Update. Gotta make some clarifications after the wife spent a half hour on hold with our insurance provider(Grouphealth) trying to get some clarification on our plan for 2016.

I was wrong about the "$9000 Family Deductible" We do each get to use our $4500 deductible and then we also pay %20 from $4500 to $6250 I believe what it was.

I think what led us to believe we added our deductibles together is when we were shopping around for our 2015 plan, we came to understand thats the way Premera did it....so thats why we went with Grouphealth and there slightly higher monthly premium. I cant remember at this point why we thought that.Dizzy

To make a loooooong story short ....and an epic thread Hi-jack on my part complete.Evil ...we have a max out of pocket of $12,900 total for the two of us + $530 premium per month = $19260, worst case scenario where we both get sick and both of us use up our deductible.
Dick Piano
Posts
11
Joined
12/28/2015
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
12/29/2015 10:56am
Not totally true Rooster. Have a look at your personal income tax rate compared to your average American. And, then, if you make over 100k/year, really...
Not totally true Rooster. Have a look at your personal income tax rate compared to your average American. And, then, if you make over 100k/year, really look at your new income tAx rates. Then, as it goes up, so does the tax rate. You and I are paying very similar to what they are. Do I mind? Not really. Where it's good in Canada is in the case of serious illness. At least we typically arent ruined.
Dick Piano wrote:
This guy is correct. In America they can deny paying your bill for ANY Reason they want. INCLUDING, not covering extreme sports. MX, Skiing, snowboarding, riding...
This guy is correct. In America they can deny paying your bill for ANY Reason they want. INCLUDING, not covering extreme sports. MX, Skiing, snowboarding, riding in a SXS, you name it. Leaving you on the hook for the entire bill. Which in a major injury could be millions.

Thats why you always have to "Fall off the roof"

Insurance is NOT in the business of losing money. if they can NOT pay, they won't.
Socialized healthcare is not a business for profit they way health insurance works here.

VA and Vets get a 'Socialized" healthcare here. And its good.

And whoever said up there in Canada you have to WAIT for a procedure, I have 2 procedures scheduled 3 and 5 months out. OVER BOOKED. Here is the USA.

So our system is shit. It's no better in any way shape or form. And Bankruptcy is a major concern when INSURANCE DENIES YOUR CLAIM.

Oh, and some of those countries with socialized healthcare have a 15% flat tax rate for citizens. Less for corporations. Do your research.

I'll take that ANY DAY. ALL DAY. Starting TODAY.
ns503 wrote:
I'm not sure who you're saying is correct here, but I'm with Rooster. What some are saying they are paying in health insurance premiums, is more...
I'm not sure who you're saying is correct here, but I'm with Rooster.

What some are saying they are paying in health insurance premiums, is more than I am paying in in total income tax. That's messed up.
Mad max. Here in america you can be financially ruined.

And Canucks dont wait any longer for non life threatening procedures than us.

I have shit so far booked out I gave up.
Unless of course I pay the whole thing out of pocket.
But in network providers....good fuckin luck
12/29/2015 3:24pm
Dick Piano wrote:
Mad max. Here in america you can be financially ruined. And Canucks dont wait any longer for non life threatening procedures than us. I have shit...
Mad max. Here in america you can be financially ruined.

And Canucks dont wait any longer for non life threatening procedures than us.

I have shit so far booked out I gave up.
Unless of course I pay the whole thing out of pocket.
But in network providers....good fuckin luck
Yes, you bet, that's why I said that. I am not disagreeing with Rooster, ( hes a good guy) Im only saying that if you compare income tax rates, any one in Canada that makes a decent wage, pays about the same in income taxes, as the americans with their insurance and income tax. Its close I think anyways. Threshold tax rate her is 41%, so if you make good money, it can be a TON of tax.

On the flip side, and this kind of reinforces what you are saying.... Canadas health care system isn't the greatest, but its not toooo bad. You typically avoid financial ruin from the cost of the surgery or illness. It usually comes in the form of lost jobs, and payments not being made, etc.

It seems the socialist mind thinks government should just look after it all, but government seems to be able to make anything and everything inefficient and ineffective. Then, if you privatize it, greed and corruption seem to ruin it. Kind of a bad deal all around. Hopefully we can maintain the system in Canada, but I doubt it. Baby boomers will be retiring soon, and there is a huge number of them, and someone needs to pay for it. Judging by the taxes I pay, Im doing more than my share. lol Cheers.

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