LL's Competition Bulletin 2016-2:

12/22/2015 9:54pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2015 10:17pm
I realize that I'm on the other side of the fence compared to many of the contributor's in this thread, but I think the classes are fine how they are (concerning former pro's etc.) I'm only 23, but at one point I was the kid who only dreamed of getting to the ranch, tried year after year and continued to get my ass whooped (probably 8-10 years consecutively without showing much promise of ever achieving my goal) thank goodness my parents were supportive enough to stick with me. Rode schoolboy for years on end, continued to get beat up by the likes of Tomac, Barcia, Trettel, Baggett, Wilson, Stewart, Rife and it goes on and on. Never ventured into the C class.

I was ready to be elite, which is what I always considered the ranch, the absolute best of the best. The foundation of that place was you truly were one of the best in your division, no matter 1st or 40th, you were battling guys that had exceptional talent and impressive skill. Finally after years of getting beat, I finally conquered and made it there, three times consecutively. I didn't want to race guys that were considered second tier or average and do well, for me that took the fun out in it. I didn't receive enjoyment by beating up on guys with asterisks, or my class being handicapped. So much to the point that looking back on it, I wasn't really impressed with myself having to make it in a B/C class (Collegeboy.) I had a sense of pride getting beat by guys towards the end of my career such as Jeremy Martin, or Joey Savatgy, rather than placing well in a class with no one in it. I know that may sound weird to some, but testing myself and being able to say I competed amongst the best is something that I'll carry with me for a lifetime.

I know that feeling, just wanting to ride there so bad that you're hoping for any remote possibility that you'll qualify, whether it be by class restructure, injuries to others, etc. Looking back on it, I'm glad I stuck to it and didn't make it too easy on myself, if any and everyone could make it at some point, the event loses its flare and is simply another race.
Bermworm
Posts
300
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
CA
12/22/2015 9:59pm
I always feel kinda bad for the ex pros that race at Loretta's. Seems sad to me that someone who once held a pro license would go through the bother to qualify.Even if you win most hollow victory ever and if you lose?Lets not get all crazy its Vet racing where at most local scenes the guy that is able to make it to every race is the champ.Plus I believe the fastest kids at Loretta's this year were 7 seconds a lap faster than the fastest Vets.Sandbaggers gonna sandbag watcha gonna do ?
JoJmoto
Posts
1783
Joined
11/8/2006
Location
Clarkesville, GA, USA
12/23/2015 4:24am
DC:

I'm not sure why we needed another 125 12-16 class. That's schoolboy1 all over again. If anything, extend the age a little further out to like 18 for those B/C riders who started late.

I am happy to see the 45 and 50 classes get their own gate and glad to see the 250C class 12-16 birthday change.
dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 5:58am
I go to work, have a family. And what's a "pro" someone who makes a living at racing? Because scoring 1 point over 10 years ago def does not pay the bills as a working professional. And to say we had our shot? Does this mean you feel this is your shot? In a plus 35 vet class? And by your logic because pros were good enough to be pros 15 years ago they should not be allowed to race at a very fun event that most of them grew up racing and want to go back to those memories with their families and kids? If anything all the non pros have had their LONG run of racing only amateur stuff. Greedy

The Shop

12/23/2015 6:11am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2015 6:18am
Jterry wrote:
Because they got tired of policing the class because every year they would have hundreds of guys sand bagging and drop down to race it. They...
Because they got tired of policing the class because every year they would have hundreds of guys sand bagging and drop down to race it.
They would have guys that raced A for years, even been to the ranch multiple times or raced pro sx/mx races that quit racing for 5 or so years because whatever reason petition the and to drop down to B and then proceed to kill everyone at the regionals.

How is it fair for guys that have never raced a class higher than B to race guys like Paul P or Charles Castillo (don't know how to spell his last name) when they raced A for years or worked as a factory mechanic for how many years?
This is why I have started "reverse-sandbagging". Just get to where youre a competent B rider who won't get landed on. Then sign up for A everywhere you go. Those guys are quicker, but if you're a competent B rider, you can T-bone them in the first corner, run over their leg in the second corner. Get a good start and brake check the shit out of them. They are human, you can get a decent jump out of the gate and saw his fucking front wheel off 3rd gear pinned. Come off the track, ride over to his pits and compliment his wife's tits. Make their life hell. It's fun. Fuck them.

One time, I brought an old trophy to the track, walked up to one of them and handed it to him. Said "This is what you wanted anyway, right?"

Typically they'll mutter shit under their breath as you walk by, and maybe talk shit about you on the internet, but at the end of the day, they're chickenshit sandbaggers. The kind of guy who races B when he's an ex-pro or fast A-rider will lack the balls to kick your bike off the stand after a moto, so you dont have anything to worry about.
slipdog
Posts
10054
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA, USA
12/23/2015 6:22am
I haven't raced a real race since 2009... B class here I come mother f**kers!!!
sandman768
Posts
8180
Joined
3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
12/23/2015 6:31am
Great rule change to separate the 45 & 50 classes! Hopefully the moto"s are 20 mins too! I don't mind racing with the former pro"s, I know I"m not going to beat them but, it gives me motivation to train harder. In the northeast the regional qualifiers are loaded with former pros, very hard to qualify for the ranch. Amazing how fast some of these former pro"s still go. Making the show is a big accomplishment in my eyes.
dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 7:44am
Bermworm wrote:
I always feel kinda bad for the ex pros that race at Loretta's. Seems sad to me that someone who once held a pro license would...
I always feel kinda bad for the ex pros that race at Loretta's. Seems sad to me that someone who once held a pro license would go through the bother to qualify.Even if you win most hollow victory ever and if you lose?Lets not get all crazy its Vet racing where at most local scenes the guy that is able to make it to every race is the champ.Plus I believe the fastest kids at Loretta's this year were 7 seconds a lap faster than the fastest Vets.Sandbaggers gonna sandbag watcha gonna do ?
im not sure why you would feel sad? the ex pros that go there in the vet class are honestly the ones who go JUST for fun and the pure joy of racing. its the other guys who even talk about winning or not. you guys hold ex pros at way to high of a standard. getting a pro license was not that hard back in the day and its still not that hard now. god for bid a bunch of old pros want to go race the same race that most of their childhood memories are from. vet "non pros" are the biggest bunch of cry babies ever
mb60
Posts
5667
Joined
3/7/2010
Location
GRAPEVINE, TX, USA
12/23/2015 8:21am
DC wrote:
I understand what you guys are saying about separating ex-pros, but where do you draw the line? Should a 27-year-old ex-pro from a 37- or 47-yearold...
I understand what you guys are saying about separating ex-pros, but where do you draw the line? Should a 27-year-old ex-pro from a 37- or 47-yearold that's ten or twenty years past his pro days? The AMA and MX Sports agreed to try to put all of the 25-to-39-year-old ex-pros into one age category (and of course anyone can ride other classes that aren't age-restricted). We don't want to knock ex-pros out completely, because by definition they are amateurs again once they drop their pro license and sit out a year, nor do we want to give up all of the vet categories to them. This is what we think will work for 2016, and if it doesn't, we will all go back to the drawing board.

I am sorry that a few guys in that 35-39 "sportsman" group have to race against 30-and-up riders that can be a few years younger, but it's impossible to fit the perfect class in for everyone.

And 49weasel, we don't use the exact same classes as RCSX because riders can compete in more than two classes at Daytona, but they can't at Loretta Lynn's, and that influences the thinking on national classes as compared to other races.

DC

I'm pretty sure this is called a Amateur National for a reason. LOL

I would love to see a Vet Pro class for 30-50 year old guys at this event. No reason in the world Reynard and Tortelli should be riding against a guy that works 40 hours a week to live his dream for one week.
MX114
Posts
742
Joined
12/30/2013
Location
USA
12/23/2015 8:34am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2015 8:49am
DC - Once a pro always a pro. You may lose some fitness and sharpness but you will always have the skill set. Sorry DC I have to say it's pretty lame for these ex-pro's to drop back down for an amateur event. I usually appreciate your opinion and see your side of things and agree, but not this time. Lorettas is the one event and week a year that your normal racer can go for his shot at glory by qualifying or competing for a championship and have it stolen by a former pro who wants to sandbag an amateur race so he can live the dream again is wrong. The normal working class vet racer is a big backbone of this sport and for many of us its there one event they work hard all year for and invest everything they have into it. You don't see that in any other sport that I know of where the best in the world drop back and compete again. Have a separate class or else let them hang there hat on the fact they made it to the very highest level and it's over.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
12/23/2015 8:42am
Same conversation every year about ex pros and lorettas. I'm sure we will get the "B" and "C' class sandbagging argument just like every year, too.
12/23/2015 8:45am
The allure of any kind of championship goes away when you hear the names Tortelli, Reynard, and a few years ago Carmichael being mentioned.

The notion of putting all of the old pro's into one class is interesting and telling.

The way the topic is handled, being in in that we are accommodating professional level riders at the ranch in any manner other than as EXHIBITION shows that it isn't a fully Amateur event.

If you have pro riders RACING at LL's, then it isn't the Amateur nationals. It's a hybrid.

They only hybrid's at the ranch should be the kids right at the cusp, seeking to use the ranch itself as definition that they are professional.
dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 8:51am
MX114 wrote:
DC - Once a pro always a pro. You may lose some fitness and sharpness but you will always have the skill set. Sorry DC I...
DC - Once a pro always a pro. You may lose some fitness and sharpness but you will always have the skill set. Sorry DC I have to say it's pretty lame for these ex-pro's to drop back down for an amateur event. I usually appreciate your opinion and see your side of things and agree, but not this time. Lorettas is the one event and week a year that your normal racer can go for his shot at glory by qualifying or competing for a championship and have it stolen by a former pro who wants to sandbag an amateur race so he can live the dream again is wrong. The normal working class vet racer is a big backbone of this sport and for many of us its there one event they work hard all year for and invest everything they have into it. You don't see that in any other sport that I know of where the best in the world drop back and compete again. Have a separate class or else let them hang there hat on the fact they made it to the very highest level and it's over.
what makes someone a "pro" like what would be the true definition as a professional? you guy keep putting such a big thing on ex pros. the thing about pro racing is there is like 10 diff groups of pros. there are a lot more amateurs at these "amateur events" that have way more than some dude who maybe scored a point years and years ago.there are so many gray areas on who is a Pro and who is not when bottom line is its just a cool event for our sport. no matter who wins the Vet classes nothing life changing will happen.
MX114
Posts
742
Joined
12/30/2013
Location
USA
12/23/2015 8:54am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2015 8:57am
MX114 wrote:
DC - Once a pro always a pro. You may lose some fitness and sharpness but you will always have the skill set. Sorry DC I...
DC - Once a pro always a pro. You may lose some fitness and sharpness but you will always have the skill set. Sorry DC I have to say it's pretty lame for these ex-pro's to drop back down for an amateur event. I usually appreciate your opinion and see your side of things and agree, but not this time. Lorettas is the one event and week a year that your normal racer can go for his shot at glory by qualifying or competing for a championship and have it stolen by a former pro who wants to sandbag an amateur race so he can live the dream again is wrong. The normal working class vet racer is a big backbone of this sport and for many of us its there one event they work hard all year for and invest everything they have into it. You don't see that in any other sport that I know of where the best in the world drop back and compete again. Have a separate class or else let them hang there hat on the fact they made it to the very highest level and it's over.
dgmx wrote:
what makes someone a "pro" like what would be the true definition as a professional? you guy keep putting such a big thing on ex pros...
what makes someone a "pro" like what would be the true definition as a professional? you guy keep putting such a big thing on ex pros. the thing about pro racing is there is like 10 diff groups of pros. there are a lot more amateurs at these "amateur events" that have way more than some dude who maybe scored a point years and years ago.there are so many gray areas on who is a Pro and who is not when bottom line is its just a cool event for our sport. no matter who wins the Vet classes nothing life changing will happen.
There a big difference between your local expert vet guy and someone who held a pro license

You held a pro-license before and thats the defenition of a pro. There's no going back. One point or not. Sorry but that's the truth you shouldn't be allowed to compete against amateurs ever again
dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 8:59am
MX114 wrote:
There a big difference between your local expert vet guy and someone who held a pro license You held a pro-license before and thats the defenition...
There a big difference between your local expert vet guy and someone who held a pro license

You held a pro-license before and thats the defenition of a pro. There's no going back. One point or not. Sorry but that's the truth you shouldn't be allowed to compete against amateurs ever again
well they are experts not amateurs and the only difference between a local expert and a local pro is paper work. i agree A and B guys should not be together but back marker ex pros and expert guys are pretty much of the same mold
MX114
Posts
742
Joined
12/30/2013
Location
USA
12/23/2015 9:02am
Your on glue if you think the only difference between a local expert and a pro is paperwork. Sorry but your argument is far off reality. Racinf against local Johnny hotshoe and the best in the world is two totally different levels of this sport.
dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 9:06am
MX114 wrote:
Your on glue if you think the only difference between a local expert and a pro is paperwork. Sorry but your argument is far off reality...
Your on glue if you think the only difference between a local expert and a pro is paperwork. Sorry but your argument is far off reality. Racinf against local Johnny hotshoe and the best in the world is two totally different levels of this sport.
if you are a local expert racer you would know the diff between racing against the BEST in the world vs a fellow local guy who has made some mains. and also to go back to your whole mind set of ex pros wanting to come back down to relive his dream? the only people who even think thats what going on is living in a false reality. They are there for FUNNNNNNN to race. most likely there with their family racing. are you a local expert? do you qualify for LL in the vet class? have you ever tried for a pro national? curious to where you fall into this since you have an opinion
MotoX85
Posts
2198
Joined
10/9/2011
Location
Centralia, IL, USA
12/23/2015 9:10am
DC wrote:
I believe both of those classes are full gates and stand-alone motos, let me check...

DC
Since I am always so negative.....

These are some great changes, awesome. Will probably try the 45+ myself next year just to support a positive change.

Now lets see if we can add the 250 2 stroke to the schoolboy 2 class, even though this would not affect us anymore since we are just going to ride the Am classes instead of youth but I think it is needed. A 150 is not competitive with a 250F all mods being equal.

I think the rule also needs to be added that if you have been training at a facility, you should not be able to race the C class, which is the beginner class. Again this will not affect us since my son is B but needs to be addressed.

Again, like these changes, great job and thanks for the posting.

VR,
MX114
Posts
742
Joined
12/30/2013
Location
USA
12/23/2015 9:11am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2015 9:11am
Actually I have been to LL before as my avatar shows, and I know the difference very well. I'm a regular vet guy who races as a true amateur that never went pro. You as a former pro who scored a point complaining that you can't sandbag comes off as very poor sportsmanship. That week is for fun for guys who never made it to your level. Let it be that you raced pro and did very well at that. Should be proud to of scored a point and not go looking to steal the "fun" away from your normal weekend warrior who never made it where you did in the sport
RNagy052
Posts
768
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Bryceville, FL, USA
12/23/2015 9:17am
Thanks DC / MXSports. I have zero complaints with your new class structure.

dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 9:19am
MX114 wrote:
Actually I have been to LL before as my avatar shows, and I know the difference very well. I'm a regular vet guy who races as...
Actually I have been to LL before as my avatar shows, and I know the difference very well. I'm a regular vet guy who races as a true amateur that never went pro. You as a former pro who scored a point complaining that you can't sandbag comes off as very poor sportsmanship. That week is for fun for guys who never made it to your level. Let it be that you raced pro and did very well at that. Should be proud to of scored a point and not go looking to steal the "fun" away from your normal weekend warrior who never made it where you did in the sport
this goes back to what ive been trying to ask.....you say i "made it" but i dont see it that way. i just like anyone else spent all my own money, put in days practicing, bought product. i just happen to have raced in some nationals scored ONE supercross point all while losing money. that to me isnt " making it" thats called a hobby lol. and to be clear you have called me a sandbagger and been negative toward me but im showing poor sportsmanship? i just think its weird that you feel a rider who came up through the ranks did LL, then did some pro stuff is now Banned from racing LL vet class? the whole point of those vet classes was for this exact reason. then as people became soft and wanted participant awards for EVERYTHING they started to complain and have their feelings hurt. to me it seems YOU are trying to live some weird glory days where Myself and other guys are just looking to take it back to the days of racing for the pure fun of the sport like we did growing up. it shouldnt be this serious geeez
Huckster
Posts
2588
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Woodstock, NY, USA
12/23/2015 9:20am
MX114 wrote:
Your on glue if you think the only difference between a local expert and a pro is paperwork. Sorry but your argument is far off reality...
Your on glue if you think the only difference between a local expert and a pro is paperwork. Sorry but your argument is far off reality. Racinf against local Johnny hotshoe and the best in the world is two totally different levels of this sport.
dgmx wrote:
if you are a local expert racer you would know the diff between racing against the BEST in the world vs a fellow local guy who...
if you are a local expert racer you would know the diff between racing against the BEST in the world vs a fellow local guy who has made some mains. and also to go back to your whole mind set of ex pros wanting to come back down to relive his dream? the only people who even think thats what going on is living in a false reality. They are there for FUNNNNNNN to race. most likely there with their family racing. are you a local expert? do you qualify for LL in the vet class? have you ever tried for a pro national? curious to where you fall into this since you have an opinion
It really is a no win for MX Sports and the AMA. The journeymen pro doesn't want RC in his class. tHe local A rider thinks he shouldn't have to compete against RC or any rider who scored points at a a a national or SX. The true B rider who was never fast enough to turn A doesn't think he should have to compete against any rider who ever raced as an A rider at a local or national event. For every level there will always be a reason to be unhappy. I just can't for the life of me figure out what pleasure or sense of accomplishment one could get from beating guys who they are supposed to beat.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
12/23/2015 9:28am
MX114 wrote:
Actually I have been to LL before as my avatar shows, and I know the difference very well. I'm a regular vet guy who races as...
Actually I have been to LL before as my avatar shows, and I know the difference very well. I'm a regular vet guy who races as a true amateur that never went pro. You as a former pro who scored a point complaining that you can't sandbag comes off as very poor sportsmanship. That week is for fun for guys who never made it to your level. Let it be that you raced pro and did very well at that. Should be proud to of scored a point and not go looking to steal the "fun" away from your normal weekend warrior who never made it where you did in the sport
dgmx wrote:
this goes back to what ive been trying to ask.....you say i "made it" but i dont see it that way. i just like anyone else...
this goes back to what ive been trying to ask.....you say i "made it" but i dont see it that way. i just like anyone else spent all my own money, put in days practicing, bought product. i just happen to have raced in some nationals scored ONE supercross point all while losing money. that to me isnt " making it" thats called a hobby lol. and to be clear you have called me a sandbagger and been negative toward me but im showing poor sportsmanship? i just think its weird that you feel a rider who came up through the ranks did LL, then did some pro stuff is now Banned from racing LL vet class? the whole point of those vet classes was for this exact reason. then as people became soft and wanted participant awards for EVERYTHING they started to complain and have their feelings hurt. to me it seems YOU are trying to live some weird glory days where Myself and other guys are just looking to take it back to the days of racing for the pure fun of the sport like we did growing up. it shouldnt be this serious geeez
I don't have a dog in this fight. Never been to LL's. Never tried to go, etc. Now that I have that out of the way, if your desire to go is just for fun, then what would it hurt to have a class just for ex-pros?
dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 9:32am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight. Never been to LL's. Never tried to go, etc. Now that I have that out of the way...
I don't have a dog in this fight. Never been to LL's. Never tried to go, etc. Now that I have that out of the way, if your desire to go is just for fun, then what would it hurt to have a class just for ex-pros?
thats what the vet classes use to be in place for. and i agree
MX114
Posts
742
Joined
12/30/2013
Location
USA
12/23/2015 9:42am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2015 9:45am
dgmx- I'd venture to say about %95 of us who ever throw a leg over a bike will never get to the capability of achieving a pro license let alone scoring a point. Yes only ONE but it's a point against the very best in the world non the less which is a huge accomplishment and good for you on that its cool and can be proud of that. I know I would be. You obviously are a very good rider and props to you. However being you are the other %5 of us in this sport and you wanting to cherry pick an amateur event kinda takes the essence out of the event and what it should be about. There's plenty of other events I.E.: mini o's, freestone national, mammoth and many more for you as a former pro to have that fun again with your friends and family being there. Also im saying LL should be the event a year that guys like myself and many more shouldn't have to compete against former pro's for our chance at accomplishment on a national level. Never tried to be negative just very lame your fighting for your chance to get your rocks off by beating guys you are def suppose to beat anyways since your raced PRO. Good luck in your arguments and more power to you if that makes you feel good and having fun again. End of rant.
DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
12/23/2015 9:44am
MotoX85, thanks, and you have a very interesting idea:

"I think the rule also needs to be added that if you have been training at a facility, you should not be able to race the C class, which is the beginner class."

We are already limiting international participation in C classes, but the just-riding, not-racing strategy needs looked at in the future.

And hvaughn88, where do you draw the line in separating out, say, 60-something Gary Jones from thirty-something Sebastien Tortelli? And there aren't enough ex-pros in the country to fill the gate at Loretta Lynn's, let alone the Regionals.

One other good point that someone suggested on Facebook: We need a hard deadline, earlier in the fall, to announce any class changes. That's on us and the AMA. We will be more timely next time.

DC
yak651
Posts
8908
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
Fantasy
12/23/2015 9:44am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight. Never been to LL's. Never tried to go, etc. Now that I have that out of the way...
I don't have a dog in this fight. Never been to LL's. Never tried to go, etc. Now that I have that out of the way, if your desire to go is just for fun, then what would it hurt to have a class just for ex-pros?
dgmx wrote:
thats what the vet classes use to be in place for. and i agree
I think that's what the other guy was trying to get at. One class for all ex pros and then a +30, +40 for "amateurs"
dgmx
Posts
213
Joined
9/23/2011
Location
Salt lake city, UT, USA
12/23/2015 9:48am
i get ZERO rocks off by beating guys i " should" beat. go tell kevin walker he shouldnt beat any former national pros.
maybe thats the diff between our mindset. you want to go there to beat people where i want to go there to just compete with myself. the long hard 3 moto formats. the memories. Also im sure you have seen it just as i have. usualy the guy who never did go "pro" but is still racing and has kept up with racing often becomes better than the ex pro.
happy holidays
vetmotoxer34
Posts
156
Joined
10/24/2008
Location
Summerdale, AL, USA
12/23/2015 9:49am
RNagy052 wrote:
Thanks DC / MXSports. I have zero complaints with your new class structure.

I am with you Robert worked out well for guys like us. Best of luck this year. Hope to see at the Winter Series next month for a few rounds and then at Daytona. Merry Christmas to you.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
12/23/2015 9:49am
DC wrote:
MotoX85, thanks, and you have a very interesting idea: "I think the rule also needs to be added that if you have been training at a...
MotoX85, thanks, and you have a very interesting idea:

"I think the rule also needs to be added that if you have been training at a facility, you should not be able to race the C class, which is the beginner class."

We are already limiting international participation in C classes, but the just-riding, not-racing strategy needs looked at in the future.

And hvaughn88, where do you draw the line in separating out, say, 60-something Gary Jones from thirty-something Sebastien Tortelli? And there aren't enough ex-pros in the country to fill the gate at Loretta Lynn's, let alone the Regionals.

One other good point that someone suggested on Facebook: We need a hard deadline, earlier in the fall, to announce any class changes. That's on us and the AMA. We will be more timely next time.

DC
Oh I have no idea. Like I said, never been, don't know the numbers. By no means am I saying you should add the class. I'm just pointing out that if dgmx's main desire is to go have fun and a good time, then what would it hurt from his standpoint?

Post a reply to: LL's Competition Bulletin 2016-2:

The Latest