David Pingree on air forks

11/16/2015 7:14am
And you forgot how bad the USD forks were in 89, and how good they were by 97.

TeamGreen wrote:
What was the best fork in '89?
hillbilly wrote:
White power but i did my own and knew them well. On the air forks, seems like straight air would build pressure as it heats up...
White power but i did my own and knew them well.

On the air forks, seems like straight air would build pressure as it heats up, P=V (T). So each degree the temps rises so would the psi raise one pound.
exactly! so you will be riding with effectively stiffer spring rate at the end of a moto...

one of the many things that puts me off any generation of air fork. Hence my buying a yam for next year!!
11/16/2015 7:26am
TeamGreen wrote:
What was the best fork in '89?
hillbilly wrote:
White power but i did my own and knew them well. On the air forks, seems like straight air would build pressure as it heats up...
White power but i did my own and knew them well.

On the air forks, seems like straight air would build pressure as it heats up, P=V (T). So each degree the temps rises so would the psi raise one pound.
exactly! so you will be riding with effectively stiffer spring rate at the end of a moto... one of the many things that puts me off...
exactly! so you will be riding with effectively stiffer spring rate at the end of a moto...

one of the many things that puts me off any generation of air fork. Hence my buying a yam for next year!!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the third chamber on the Showa lug to deal with air expansion and contraction?
bvm111
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11/16/2015 7:30am
Whole lot of don't know in this thread.

I would tend to listen to a former pro that still rides and tests all the bikes and suspension over you guys that are trying to justify the purchase of your current bikes.

That being said I can't get my standard twin chamber forks on my KX to work well everywhere either... So what do I know!

Tongue
Anonymous (not verified)
11/16/2015 7:52am Edited Date/Time 9/1/2026 6:11pm
Did I miss something or is nitrogen not being used to avoid pressure changes? Seems like it would help just like in tires. And will somebody please buy a WP air fork and tell us if it has the same issues. I would but I'm spending all my money ridingSad

The Shop

MXD
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11/16/2015 7:58am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the third chamber on the Showa lug to deal with air expansion and contraction?
Correct. As pressure builds in the inner chamber, so it does in the balance chamber which opposes the inner chamber. Albeit probably not at a 1:1 ratio but close enough that 99% of us would never feel it.

I was a huge skeptic of the new TAC fork on the 16 KX. So much so that I put aside the cash to buy cone valve springers. By the second ride, I put that money back in the bank. And that's not me trying to justify my purchase. After the Team Green dealio, I paid $6500 OTD for my 16 KX. I don't have to justify anything at that price. If I didn't like them I would just sell the bike and not lose a dime. My opinion is unbiased.
MXD
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11/16/2015 8:00am
Anonymous wrote:
Did I miss something or is nitrogen not being used to avoid pressure changes? Seems like it would help just like in tires. And will somebody...
Did I miss something or is nitrogen not being used to avoid pressure changes? Seems like it would help just like in tires. And will somebody please buy a WP air fork and tell us if it has the same issues. I would but I'm spending all my money ridingSad
I think nitrogen would help but it's not practical for the average rider to have a nitrogen tank in their garage or at the track. I could see a factory team doing that but not the average guy.
TeamGreen
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11/16/2015 8:41am
bvm111 wrote:
Whole lot of don't know in this thread. I would tend to listen to a former pro that still rides and tests all the bikes and...
Whole lot of don't know in this thread.

I would tend to listen to a former pro that still rides and tests all the bikes and suspension over you guys that are trying to justify the purchase of your current bikes.

That being said I can't get my standard twin chamber forks on my KX to work well everywhere either... So what do I know!

Tongue
Said "Pro" was correct in that a air-stock fork, in most cases & up until some of this years TACs, Does feel way too Harsh...

OUT OF THE BOX

After doing some testing and sampling...those that've "tried it all", like ML512, have come to learn how to set'em up.

Me? I don't care who runs what; because, I know what works for me...& as folks like Refeer and a few others vent their frustrations...I'll just go about my riding with suspension that works really well for me. That includes WP 4CS, KYB Pro-Circuit Airs & ENZO KYB springers.

And, as for earlier comments on who's set-up compares to mine or anyone-else's? No worries. Those of you talkng shit are not amongst the people I see week-in & week-out testing this stuff. That's exactly why you can spew the angry uninformed crap that you do.

Good luck with that.
GouldRacing25
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11/16/2015 8:52am
This is how I fixed my new 2015 KX450F AIR FORKS..... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/15/111489/s1200_IMG_4907.jpg[/img] Its called SSS!!! Right off my 15 YZ250F.
This is how I fixed my new 2015 KX450F AIR FORKS.....

Its called SSS!!! Right off my 15 YZ250F.
HenryA wrote:
Boom!

How much work did it take to make it fit? And what did you do? KX or YZ Wheels?
Its pretty easy! Complete yamaha front end using the stock kx clamps. So basically slide the kx forks out and slide the sss in.... PERFECT!!!!!
brimx153
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11/16/2015 8:58am Edited Date/Time 11/16/2015 8:59am
bvm111 wrote:
Whole lot of don't know in this thread. I would tend to listen to a former pro that still rides and tests all the bikes and...
Whole lot of don't know in this thread.

I would tend to listen to a former pro that still rides and tests all the bikes and suspension over you guys that are trying to justify the purchase of your current bikes.

That being said I can't get my standard twin chamber forks on my KX to work well everywhere either... So what do I know!

Tongue
TeamGreen wrote:
Said "Pro" was correct in that a air-stock fork, in most cases & up until some of this years TACs, Does feel way too Harsh... OUT...
Said "Pro" was correct in that a air-stock fork, in most cases & up until some of this years TACs, Does feel way too Harsh...

OUT OF THE BOX

After doing some testing and sampling...those that've "tried it all", like ML512, have come to learn how to set'em up.

Me? I don't care who runs what; because, I know what works for me...& as folks like Refeer and a few others vent their frustrations...I'll just go about my riding with suspension that works really well for me. That includes WP 4CS, KYB Pro-Circuit Airs & ENZO KYB springers.

And, as for earlier comments on who's set-up compares to mine or anyone-else's? No worries. Those of you talkng shit are not amongst the people I see week-in & week-out testing this stuff. That's exactly why you can spew the angry uninformed crap that you do.

Good luck with that.
i dont think Ping has too many good words about ML512 either Tongue
MXD
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11/16/2015 9:39am
This is how I fixed my new 2015 KX450F AIR FORKS..... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/15/111489/s1200_IMG_4907.jpg[/img] Its called SSS!!! Right off my 15 YZ250F.
This is how I fixed my new 2015 KX450F AIR FORKS.....

Its called SSS!!! Right off my 15 YZ250F.
HenryA wrote:
Boom!

How much work did it take to make it fit? And what did you do? KX or YZ Wheels?
Its pretty easy! Complete yamaha front end using the stock kx clamps. So basically slide the kx forks out and slide the sss in.... PERFECT!!!!!
I like my TAC's on my 16 KX but curiosity is getting the best of me. I want to try a set out. What year and size YZ's should I be looking at to buy a set off of? So all I need is the forks, wheel, rotor and front brake setup?
GouldRacing25
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11/16/2015 9:45am
Yes correct. These forks are off my 15 yz250f. Id look for 14+ yzf forks or 15+ yz forks.
MXD
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11/16/2015 9:51am
Yes correct. These forks are off my 15 yz250f. Id look for 14+ yzf forks or 15+ yz forks.
Are there any major differences between the 14-15 SSS KYBs and the older ones? In other words, if I found a set off of an 08 or 09 but was going to get them revalved for me anyway, would it matter?
GouldRacing25
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11/16/2015 10:00am
i believe 14 and newer are 10mm longer and or more travel. But yes i believe any year sss will work as long as you use everything yamaha minus the clamps.
11/16/2015 10:10am
bvm111 wrote:
Whole lot of don't know in this thread. I would tend to listen to a former pro that still rides and tests all the bikes and...
Whole lot of don't know in this thread.

I would tend to listen to a former pro that still rides and tests all the bikes and suspension over you guys that are trying to justify the purchase of your current bikes.

That being said I can't get my standard twin chamber forks on my KX to work well everywhere either... So what do I know!

Tongue
True, but look at Carmichael's setup..low bars..low rear end... shaved seat act. Those settings worked for him but not 99% of us, just as Pings opinions are agreeable by some and not by others. Yes Ricky knows good from bad regarding bike setup, but his setup was very bad according to most.
So Pings opinion on good and bad suspension is just as varied. What sucks to him is great for others.
You can't say air forks suck just becuz he says so or at least tend to believe the opinion of a pro over others as you say.
That would be the same as saying Ricky's setup is the best a setup can be becuz he rides that weirdly setup bike faster than anyone on the planet.
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11/16/2015 10:41am
brimx153 wrote:
i dont think Ping has too many good words about ML512 either Tongue
I did yell at him for intruding on my 250 Shootout the other day. Evil

Kidding of course, most of us media guys get along great. Smile
mmcmx
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11/16/2015 10:41am
I bet air forks work pretty good in californian, groomed and watered to perfection everyday tracks. Even here in the old europe, if you are like my friends that only ride on perfect conditions, then, you wont have problems either.

But If you are like me that when it's all flat and too fast gets bored and enjoys ruts and bumps, they suck.



mxb2
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11/16/2015 10:43am
This is how I fixed my new 2015 KX450F AIR FORKS..... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/15/111489/s1200_IMG_4907.jpg[/img] Its called SSS!!! Right off my 15 YZ250F.
This is how I fixed my new 2015 KX450F AIR FORKS.....

Its called SSS!!! Right off my 15 YZ250F.
HenryA wrote:
Boom!

How much work did it take to make it fit? And what did you do? KX or YZ Wheels?
Its pretty easy! Complete yamaha front end using the stock kx clamps. So basically slide the kx forks out and slide the sss in.... PERFECT!!!!!
Or just buy a yzf, lol
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11/16/2015 10:51am
mmcmx wrote:
I bet air forks work pretty good in californian, groomed and watered to perfection everyday tracks. Even here in the old europe, if you are like...
I bet air forks work pretty good in californian, groomed and watered to perfection everyday tracks. Even here in the old europe, if you are like my friends that only ride on perfect conditions, then, you wont have problems either.

But If you are like me that when it's all flat and too fast gets bored and enjoys ruts and bumps, they suck.



I didn't realize Outdoor Nationals were that smooth... Sorry, had to be the smartass.
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11/16/2015 10:51am
mxb2 wrote:
Or just buy a yzf, lol
Then you would have worse problems than a fork hahah

Jokes aside, I think if the new KXF equiped those forks, It would sweep all shootouts.
Markopolo400
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11/16/2015 10:54am
Anonymous wrote:
Did I miss something or is nitrogen not being used to avoid pressure changes? Seems like it would help just like in tires. And will somebody...
Did I miss something or is nitrogen not being used to avoid pressure changes? Seems like it would help just like in tires. And will somebody please buy a WP air fork and tell us if it has the same issues. I would but I'm spending all my money ridingSad
Nitrogen still changes pressure, Ideal gas law says so.
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11/16/2015 10:55am
mxb2 wrote:
Or just buy a yzf, lol
mmcmx wrote:
Then you would have worse problems than a fork hahah

Jokes aside, I think if the new KXF equiped those forks, It would sweep all shootouts.
Woohoo Woohoo
mmcmx
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11/16/2015 10:56am
mmcmx wrote:
I bet air forks work pretty good in californian, groomed and watered to perfection everyday tracks. Even here in the old europe, if you are like...
I bet air forks work pretty good in californian, groomed and watered to perfection everyday tracks. Even here in the old europe, if you are like my friends that only ride on perfect conditions, then, you wont have problems either.

But If you are like me that when it's all flat and too fast gets bored and enjoys ruts and bumps, they suck.



ML512 wrote:
I didn't realize Outdoor Nationals were that smooth... Sorry, had to be the smartass.
haha, fair enough

If I was a pro with technichal suport I might think diferent too haha
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11/16/2015 11:07am
I love how the motocross community never ceases to cater to the lowest hanging fruit. Sometimes I wish that someone truly would build a 200cc air...
I love how the motocross community never ceases to cater to the lowest hanging fruit. Sometimes I wish that someone truly would build a 200cc air cooled, linkless, spring forked, steel frame "race bike" so all the rednecks could just shut up. But they'd bitch about that, too.
lol so fucking true!!!
mxb2
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11/16/2015 12:22pm
I love how the motocross community never ceases to cater to the lowest hanging fruit. Sometimes I wish that someone truly would build a 200cc air...
I love how the motocross community never ceases to cater to the lowest hanging fruit. Sometimes I wish that someone truly would build a 200cc air cooled, linkless, spring forked, steel frame "race bike" so all the rednecks could just shut up. But they'd bitch about that, too.
kiwifan wrote:
lol so fucking true!!!
True, some are stuck in the old age .
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11/16/2015 2:04pm
brimx153 wrote:
i dont think Ping has too many good words about ML512 either Tongue
ML512 wrote:
I did yell at him for intruding on my 250 Shootout the other day. :evil: Kidding of course, most of us media guys get along great...
I did yell at him for intruding on my 250 Shootout the other day. Evil

Kidding of course, most of us media guys get along great. Smile
ha ha man, i am only messing there was something wrote up on vital about a pod or something a few weeks ago lol
Rich Piano
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11/16/2015 2:18pm
Out at competitive edge I could have swore Keefers Honda had some boingers on the front.

Rich Piano
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11/16/2015 2:24pm
True, but good thing there's a thousand more people at the track that didn't forget they're pumps.. Also a good thing the pressure rarely drops more...
True, but good thing there's a thousand more people at the track that didn't forget they're pumps.. Also a good thing the pressure rarely drops more than a couple psi over a long period of time without use. My bike can sit for two months and the psi will drop from 35 to 33, that's all.

As for the ones that don't check and set they're pressure, then they get what they deserve... Less than ideal performance, just as those that don't check and change the oil in their bikes get crappy performing engines eventually.
Air forks certainly ain't keeping anyone from winning becuz the bottom line is love em or hate em, they ARE good enough to alow riders to win races.
We as Motocrossers are a very picky and finicky bunch when it comes to our bikes.
2 Lbs is about 1 spring rate roughly.

Anyone have a chart or anything for this?
Or is this "known" bro science?
11/16/2015 2:35pm
True, but good thing there's a thousand more people at the track that didn't forget they're pumps.. Also a good thing the pressure rarely drops more...
True, but good thing there's a thousand more people at the track that didn't forget they're pumps.. Also a good thing the pressure rarely drops more than a couple psi over a long period of time without use. My bike can sit for two months and the psi will drop from 35 to 33, that's all.

As for the ones that don't check and set they're pressure, then they get what they deserve... Less than ideal performance, just as those that don't check and change the oil in their bikes get crappy performing engines eventually.
Air forks certainly ain't keeping anyone from winning becuz the bottom line is love em or hate em, they ARE good enough to alow riders to win races.
We as Motocrossers are a very picky and finicky bunch when it comes to our bikes.
Rich Piano wrote:
2 Lbs is about 1 spring rate roughly.

Anyone have a chart or anything for this?
Or is this "known" bro science?
Yeah, 2 lbs is one spring rate. I consider checking and setting fork air pressure to be part of my pre-ride inspection along with checking oil, tire pressure, coolant level, and race sag.. no biggie. It actually gives me confidence knowing everything's tight and set rite on my bike... kinda enjoy it actually..
tempura
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11/16/2015 2:44pm
brimx153 wrote:
i dont think Ping has too many good words about ML512 either Tongue
ML512 wrote:
I did yell at him for intruding on my 250 Shootout the other day. :evil: Kidding of course, most of us media guys get along great...
I did yell at him for intruding on my 250 Shootout the other day. Evil

Kidding of course, most of us media guys get along great. Smile
He mentioned something about you on the pulp show not so long backEvil
Rich Piano
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11/16/2015 2:46pm
Wonder when F1 will start running air shocks?

They havent ran valve springs for decades

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