MotoGP drama....

downard254
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11/2/2015 12:27pm
ron727 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/02/109729/s1200_Screenshot_2015_11_02_08_07_40_1.jpg[/img]


Well it took almost 22 pages, but now we finally have this thread going in the direction that it should be headed.
Thank you Ron for your services. You are now my Hero!Tongue
Jspazz
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11/2/2015 12:41pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2015 9:22pm
robkinuk wrote:
The cynic in me thinks DORNA could just be orchestrating this whole thing to focus the world's media on final Moto GP!Wink Smile
kongols wrote:
That`s what my brother said too. Follow the money.
You may be right

11/2/2015 12:48pm
Jspazz wrote:
What's one-sided about it? Rossi had fallen to the slowest of the four, the last few rounds...momentum wasn't going his way anymore. Only rain had helped...
What's one-sided about it? Rossi had fallen to the slowest of the four, the last few rounds...momentum wasn't going his way anymore. Only rain had helped his cause, when he finished ahead of Lorenzo.

And he was getting mugged by all the other riders on the track, even Iannone at PI.

He turned his focus to something petty and stupid. Started accusing others of conspiracy, etc, when nobody had said it before, and started a war. Knowing he has at least half of MotoGP insiders and fans to support him.

Was it smart, angering Marquez and Lorenzo? Claiming that the focus (instead of his poor performance the last few races and dwindling championship lead) should be on that Lorenzo was winning because Marquez was helping him? Should he have expected any courtesy on-track from Marquez? Hell, no. Maybe he even welcomed it - he asked him for it.

So the shitstorm he started, and is ripping apart MotoGP, is his own device, creation. Honestly, it was going to be tough for him if he finished 4th at Sepang, and only held a 4-point lead going to Valencia. With the his lack of pace from the last 4 races, and his lack of pace at Valencia in general, he knew it was coming.

I personally hope he wins his appeal, and let the racing happen. Not because he was right - he should have been black flagged, just like reed - but such that the racing lets it decide the outcome, and the championship isn't cheapened by the stupid turn of events from Sepang.

Then, either way, he should GTFO of motoGP, obviously he's too big for it. Hopefully the Ducs can run with the factory teams and we have more than a 4-rider field next year. And give the factory Yamaha ride to someone deserving like Bradley Smith or Pol Espargaro - or take a chance with someone like Redding. Smith and Redding impressed beyond anyone's expectation at Misano.

Funny how Pedrosa always rides fast the last few races and Honda always keeps him. Honestly, his time has come too, no matter how much bad luck or arm pump surgery he has had.
Name one person who could ride that bike quicker than Pedrosa?

The Shop

Jspazz
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11/2/2015 12:57pm
Jspazz wrote:
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was: ------------------ On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the...
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was:

------------------

On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.

This is considered to be irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors and is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations.

Valentino Rossi was requested to attend a Race Direction hearing. Both riders involved were present at the hearing, both gave testimony, and video evidence was reviewed.

The decision of the Race Direction is to impose on rider #46 the addition of 3 penalty points on his record, according to Article 3.2.1. of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Disciplinary and Arbitration Code."

--------------

Article 1.21.2 reads:
"Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to
other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.
Any infringement of this rule will be penalised with one of the following
penalties: penalty points - fine - change of position - ride through – time
penalty – drop of any number of grid position at the rider’s next race –
disqualification - withdrawal of Championship points - suspension. "

--------------

It will be pretty hard to convince that he was actually being threatened by Marquez, and all the on-track riding, while hard racing, was quite fair.

It simply looks like his argument is he felt that Marquez should have let him through because he was leading the championship.

I'm curious what else he can bring to the table. I can't see how his diagram of lap charts could actually help - he was slower than Lorenzo before and after he was passed, and never achieved a faster lap than Marquez 2nd lap either. For all intents and purposes - it was a fair fight at best. And likely he was headed for a 4th place finish.
Hey Jspazz, If I was trying to form an argumentation and was a lawyer (which Im not), I would attack the "Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide...
Hey Jspazz,

If I was trying to form an argumentation and was a lawyer (which Im not),

I would attack the "Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash." First I would establish what part of that sentence caused the race officials to deem it irresponsible riding. Was it

1. The "deliberately ran wide on Turn 14"
2. The "in order to force another rider off line"
3. The "resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash"

......or a combination of the three.

I THINK establishing that the first two is common place and normal and a part of racing (educating the CAS guys with thousands of hours worth of footage of how overtaking takes place)...is relatively easy (establish that judgement is subjective and that this like case law in the UK)

Then, with the aid of the video footage from the accident, I would show that the 3rd statement is simply false. MM lent into Rossi, and MM had the option of going straight or stopping. It was his judgement (i.e. Rossi didn't make him turn in), therefore his fault. So no penalty was needed.

Voilà, I just solved everything Cool

Having written that...I think, in a court, MM would have more of an argument for the Argentina crash, the way Rossi cut across his front end...(kind of like what MM did it to Thomas Lutti in Moto2). To me in MotoGP cutting across someone's front end is the equivalent to cross-jumping in motocross. At those speeds its crazy. What makes this all a bit...ridiculous is that we are putting the word 'responsible' in a sport where the guys are a little crazy no? CAS is probably gonna laugh at the idea...ure all crazy!
It looks like the FIM stewards were careful to not imply that 46 caused 93 to crash, simply that he ran wide and forced him off-line.

So after this, it is implied that crash happened during the contact to which they haven't apportioned blame. So potentially, they are calling #1 and #2 the dangerous part.

If it solely comes down to #3, I think Rossi has a better chance.
Jspazz
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11/2/2015 12:59pm
Name one person who could ride that bike quicker than Pedrosa?
Stoner and Marquez come to mind lol.

Ten years and no championship...ouch.
11/2/2015 1:16pm
Jspazz wrote:
Stoner and Marquez come to mind lol.

Ten years and no championship...ouch.
What I meant was, if Honda dropped Pedrosa now, what rider would regularly win races & get podiums?
Jspazz
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11/2/2015 1:53pm
What I meant was, if Honda dropped Pedrosa now, what rider would regularly win races & get podiums?
Oh lol. Yes I agree it's unlikely anyone 'out of the box' will be as fast as Pedrosa on that bike now.

At some point you'd have to throw a newer rider on there and really, at some point take a chance on Smith, Espargaro, Redding, Vinales, Rins.
Crush
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11/2/2015 4:21pm
Tim507 wrote:
kongols wrote:
Around ten pages ago I said that I think Marquez slammed on a brakes when he realized he screwed up. Now the data confirms it since...
Around ten pages ago I said that I think Marquez slammed on a brakes when he realized he screwed up. Now the data confirms it since it`s physically impossible to kick front brake lever because of guard. There you have it. Now we know what caused the crash and Honda admitted it.
How anyone thinks you can kick the lever is beyond me.

Look at the big fucking guard (bark buster) in the way!!!

Crush
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11/2/2015 4:26pm
Let me just fit my motorbike boot in here without looking.

Retarded

seth505
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11/2/2015 5:54pm
Crush wrote:
Let me just fit my motorbike boot in here without looking. Retarded [img]https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/marc-marquez-and-dani-pedrosa-s-2015-honda-rc213v-motogp-bike-high-res-picture-bonanza-photo-gallery_15.jpg[/img]
Let me just fit my motorbike boot in here without looking.

Retarded

Tho some people have never ridden a race track and will eat up what they are feeding us, Honda are such douchebags they think the general race enthusiast will take their statement seriously.
Scrambler_Man
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11/2/2015 7:44pm
Of course if MM was covering the brake and a boot hit his hand, it would have the same effect. Not that I think that is what happened, just that it could have.

I simply thought he pushed the bar down, with his boot, and caused the low side.

In the end, only two people will ever know what really happened, and they may both be remembering it wrong and only remembering what they want to remember.
motokiwi
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11/2/2015 8:24pm
There is ample room to hit the first part of the lever with a pointy toe.
VRR7
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11/2/2015 9:15pm
Jspazz wrote:
Stoner and Marquez come to mind lol.

Ten years and no championship...ouch.
What I meant was, if Honda dropped Pedrosa now, what rider would regularly win races & get podiums?
Who is going to make the Press statements if Dani leaves ? He is their best PR in this incident. MM and HRC bosses throwing Honda and Reposol under the bus for a very little bit of pride.
Jspazz
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11/2/2015 9:38pm
Yes, the guard was to protect from the Gibernau incident in Catalunya - a forward hit into a fairing. Nothing to stop a foot pushing into the lever (or likely pushing the hand covering the brake, as suggested).

Anyhow, it's interesting to claim the guy who's been in charge of Honda's race bikes for 30 years is lying.
Crush
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11/2/2015 9:41pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2015 9:42pm
motokiwi wrote:
There is ample room to hit the first part of the lever with a pointy toe.
How far back and how quickly, how accurately can you point your toes from the cramped riding position, in boots, while going 100 plus kays an hour through a turn?!

And aside from that. This shows no such lift and point.

It does show marquez turn in a couple times tho, and push Rossi's foot off the peg.

https://youtu.be/-NfDowVSyKw
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2015 10:01pm
MM had 2 lengths on him going into the fateful corner, and then waited up to let him by. Rossi passes him sitting up and looking over. No way MM was trying there to stay ahead. And don't even try with the overshot BS like everyone is buying on the JLo pass. He was going to bring contact to take VR out of the title hunt, and then go to the front after his tire "warmed up" and be the hero, just like in Australia. The fastest qualifier suddenly can't attack for 1st or 2nd but fights to the death for 3rd.

And now no rider's pre race press conference, but a long overdue rider's meeting instead to control the narrative.
I hope CAS stops the penalty and the 2 Honda's run to the front and finish 1-2 leaving the 2 Yamaha boys to settle it on the track.
Jspazz
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11/2/2015 10:22pm
Jspazz wrote:
Stoner and Marquez come to mind lol.

Ten years and no championship...ouch.
What I meant was, if Honda dropped Pedrosa now, what rider would regularly win races & get podiums?
VRR7 wrote:
Who is going to make the Press statements if Dani leaves ? He is their best PR in this incident. MM and HRC bosses throwing Honda...
Who is going to make the Press statements if Dani leaves ? He is their best PR in this incident. MM and HRC bosses throwing Honda and Reposol under the bus for a very little bit of pride.
I think they are more concerned with who will bring them championships. Motogp riders are pretty much free agents on a 2-year signing cycle. Dani has been completely dominated by his teammates the last few years, but the feeling may be what Muscle-Milk-KTM suggests - who else is fast enough?

Repsol and HRC have both sent press releases firmly behind MM.

Lin Jarvis aside, I haven't seen anything from Yamaha or Movistar/telefonica.

Crush, looks pretty easy to push the riders fingers down from this angle. But maybe worth noting he is only a one-finger braker (whereas Lorenzo and everyone else uses two, Rossi three, Crutchlow four).


kongols
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11/2/2015 10:40pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2015 10:45pm
To kick you need to lift your knee up and remove your boot from a footpeg. In a video you can clearly see that his knee moves up only after it was yanked of the footpeg by Marquez. The kick had to happen when Marquez helmet touched Rossi knee. It`s impossible to hit his hand with a heel so Rossi had to raise his boot and hit him with his toes. Honda really thinks that general public are idiots.
Jspazz
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11/2/2015 10:43pm
MM had 2 lengths on him going into the fateful corner, and then waited up to let him by. Rossi passes him sitting up and looking...
MM had 2 lengths on him going into the fateful corner, and then waited up to let him by. Rossi passes him sitting up and looking over. No way MM was trying there to stay ahead. And don't even try with the overshot BS like everyone is buying on the JLo pass. He was going to bring contact to take VR out of the title hunt, and then go to the front after his tire "warmed up" and be the hero, just like in Australia. The fastest qualifier suddenly can't attack for 1st or 2nd but fights to the death for 3rd.

And now no rider's pre race press conference, but a long overdue rider's meeting instead to control the narrative.
I hope CAS stops the penalty and the 2 Honda's run to the front and finish 1-2 leaving the 2 Yamaha boys to settle it on the track.
Depp...MM was on the normal line on these corners. Even Rossi is not disputing he went off line.

Here, watch again
http://motolink.website/index.htm

“From the helicopter if you see, in slow motion, it is quite clear that I go wide. I don't want to say I do the normal corner - I wanted to go to him, slow down and make him lose time. Because it is the only thing that I can do, because in every braking he overtake me, slow down a lot in the corners and for me he didn't open the throttle on the straights.

“When I slow down, slow down, slow down and I go to cut his line, we touch. He touched me with the handlebar on my left leg and it is for that reason he crashed, because he opened the handlebar on my leg and he crashed."


It's very easy to cut inside someone on turn 13 exit and sacrifice 14, but that leads onto the huge back straight, it's a crazy sacrifice. Turn 13 is 160-170 km/h apex, braking down to 80-90 km/h for turn 14. Rossi simply straightlined the inside of the double apex such that MM could not enter 14.

Look a couple laps before what Rossi did at the very similar turns 10-11 - easily cut inside MM and then almost lost the front end trying to get it turned in for 11.
VRR7
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11/2/2015 10:57pm
motokiwi wrote:
There is ample room to hit the first part of the lever with a pointy toe.
Crush wrote:
How far back and how quickly, how accurately can you point your toes from the cramped riding position, in boots, while going 100 plus kays an...
How far back and how quickly, how accurately can you point your toes from the cramped riding position, in boots, while going 100 plus kays an hour through a turn?!

And aside from that. This shows no such lift and point.

It does show marquez turn in a couple times tho, and push Rossi's foot off the peg.

https://youtu.be/-NfDowVSyKw
Face-to-foot style

" When we get back to the pits I am going to hit your fist with my face some more ! You will see Race Direction and HRC will love that. "

Never mind the Brake lever - MM was already leaning in on VR before leg was anywhere close - It looks like what caused MM to fall was VR turned away and stopped keeping him upright enough to stop him from hitting the deck.
VRR7
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11/2/2015 11:14pm
They better put a lid on it just now the truth comes out ? What then ?

http://www.oddschecker.com/motorsport/motogp
VRR7
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11/2/2015 11:37pm
Name: DORNA SPORTS SL
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Spydee
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11/2/2015 11:59pm
Sadly a petition is going to do fuck all to overturn a penalty, when have you ever seen an instance of it being successful in sport?
scott_nz
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11/3/2015 12:32am
what ever side you are on, do you really think we should have penalties decided by social media???


Spydee
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11/3/2015 12:39am
scott_nz wrote:
what ever side you are on, do you really think we should have penalties decided by social media???


Everybody please tweet your answers and we'll put it to a vote............................................ Laughing
kongols
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11/3/2015 12:42am Edited Date/Time 11/3/2015 12:44am
scott_nz wrote:
what ever side you are on, do you really think we should have penalties decided by social media???


Social media brings attention to this bullshit. It does not decide the penalty. Everyone but spaniards and Honda sees it being ridiculous penalty. And Honda is lying and doesn`t even blush.
Jspazz
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11/3/2015 12:51am
kongols wrote:
Social media brings attention to this bullshit. It does not decide the penalty. Everyone but spaniards and Honda sees it being ridiculous penalty. And Honda is...
Social media brings attention to this bullshit. It does not decide the penalty. Everyone but spaniards and Honda sees it being ridiculous penalty. And Honda is lying and doesn`t even blush.
You speak for a lot of people, apparently everyone asides from the Spaniards.

So situation reversed, you would feel the same if Lorenzo hung Rossi out to dry in turn 1 when he passed? Bullshit penalty to Lorenzo if Rossi went down?
kongols
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11/3/2015 1:00am
Jspazz wrote:
You speak for a lot of people, apparently everyone asides from the Spaniards. So situation reversed, you would feel the same if Lorenzo hung Rossi out...
You speak for a lot of people, apparently everyone asides from the Spaniards.

So situation reversed, you would feel the same if Lorenzo hung Rossi out to dry in turn 1 when he passed? Bullshit penalty to Lorenzo if Rossi went down?
But it didn`t happen between them. Marquez has a history with messing with Rossi. Everyone was racing fine except Marquez.

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