MotoGP drama....

motogrady
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11/1/2015 4:09pm Edited Date/Time 11/1/2015 4:09pm
Hey, if I had raced a guy that pulled this kind of crap but a few events prior, I'd be looking back also.

Talk about stuffing a guy, talk about punting a guy, talk about taking the law into your own hands.

Race officials call this clean, no penalty next week.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y0s8Uv0oK3I
scott_nz
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11/1/2015 4:13pm
motogrady wrote:
Hey, if I had raced a guy that pulled this kind of crap but a few events prior, I'd be looking back also. Talk about stuffing...
Hey, if I had raced a guy that pulled this kind of crap but a few events prior, I'd be looking back also.

Talk about stuffing a guy, talk about punting a guy, talk about taking the law into your own hands.

Race officials call this clean, no penalty next week.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y0s8Uv0oK3I
i think if Rossi had fallen, or MM had won, there would have been one,
motogrady
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11/1/2015 4:19pm
motogrady wrote:
Hey, if I had raced a guy that pulled this kind of crap but a few events prior, I'd be looking back also. Talk about stuffing...
Hey, if I had raced a guy that pulled this kind of crap but a few events prior, I'd be looking back also.

Talk about stuffing a guy, talk about punting a guy, talk about taking the law into your own hands.

Race officials call this clean, no penalty next week.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y0s8Uv0oK3I
scott_nz wrote:
i think if Rossi had fallen, or MM had won, there would have been one,

That's crazy.
He ran him off the track, into the grass, look where MM ends the turn, made sure there was no room.
You have to wreck for a rough riding call?

Rossi could have gassed it, pulled the front in also, but chose to ride it out.

So could have the Honda rider.

Selective officiating at Dorna, you guys don't see that, get your eyes checked.
crusty_xx
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11/1/2015 4:32pm
wow guys how long can you argue about one and the same thing over and over and over again?
It's over a week now, one more to go. Looking forward to 20 more pages of the same repeating arguments

The Shop

Paul333
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11/1/2015 4:46pm
Jspazz wrote:
No, Rossi lost his championship because he decided to engage in petty battles and couldn't ride fast enough to help his own cause, decide his own...
No, Rossi lost his championship because he decided to engage in petty battles and couldn't ride fast enough to help his own cause, decide his own fate.

The non-racing:
Rossi chose to start a war involving all the MotoGP fans...(lol 20 pages here now)...if it was such an obvious thing at PI, but nobody said anything about it until the Doctor himself declared it? well it must be true then.

In general, declaring someone a cheat is a pretty serious allegation. If he didn't expect payback for what happened by MM, then he was kidding himself. Poorly thought out and very unlike Rossi.

In any worthless battle, just like a street fight, it will escalate to the point of an illegal action...and Rossi got there first. Rossi decided to fight the worthless battle instead.

The racing he had in the last three rounds:
Rossi lost the fight with Pedrosa in Aragon...in a way, not unlike the battle in Sepang.
Rossi had the last lap to stay in front of Iannone at PI. Couldn't do it.
Rossi had the opportunity to keep Lorenzo behind him at Sepang...couldn't do it. Maybe he was waiting for his front tire to come in, lol.

Like I said, this is not the Rossi I will choose to remember.
Park Boys wrote:
You talk like Rossi is doing bad this year? You look at things in a very one sided manner.
Exactly my point.

Rossi was/Is leading the points.

His post makes it sound like he was 20th.
motogrady
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11/1/2015 4:50pm Edited Date/Time 11/1/2015 4:51pm
Hey Crusty, we're just kinda getting into the finer points of the argument IMO.

Stay tuned, CAS decision sometime this week.Laughing
Jspazz
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11/1/2015 5:20pm
Jspazz wrote:
No, Rossi lost his championship because he decided to engage in petty battles and couldn't ride fast enough to help his own cause, decide his own...
No, Rossi lost his championship because he decided to engage in petty battles and couldn't ride fast enough to help his own cause, decide his own fate.

The non-racing:
Rossi chose to start a war involving all the MotoGP fans...(lol 20 pages here now)...if it was such an obvious thing at PI, but nobody said anything about it until the Doctor himself declared it? well it must be true then.

In general, declaring someone a cheat is a pretty serious allegation. If he didn't expect payback for what happened by MM, then he was kidding himself. Poorly thought out and very unlike Rossi.

In any worthless battle, just like a street fight, it will escalate to the point of an illegal action...and Rossi got there first. Rossi decided to fight the worthless battle instead.

The racing he had in the last three rounds:
Rossi lost the fight with Pedrosa in Aragon...in a way, not unlike the battle in Sepang.
Rossi had the last lap to stay in front of Iannone at PI. Couldn't do it.
Rossi had the opportunity to keep Lorenzo behind him at Sepang...couldn't do it. Maybe he was waiting for his front tire to come in, lol.

Like I said, this is not the Rossi I will choose to remember.
Park Boys wrote:
You talk like Rossi is doing bad this year? You look at things in a very one sided manner.
Paul333 wrote:
Exactly my point.

Rossi was/Is leading the points.

His post makes it sound like he was 20th.
What's one-sided about it? Rossi had fallen to the slowest of the four, the last few rounds...momentum wasn't going his way anymore. Only rain had helped his cause, when he finished ahead of Lorenzo.

And he was getting mugged by all the other riders on the track, even Iannone at PI.

He turned his focus to something petty and stupid. Started accusing others of conspiracy, etc, when nobody had said it before, and started a war. Knowing he has at least half of MotoGP insiders and fans to support him.

Was it smart, angering Marquez and Lorenzo? Claiming that the focus (instead of his poor performance the last few races and dwindling championship lead) should be on that Lorenzo was winning because Marquez was helping him? Should he have expected any courtesy on-track from Marquez? Hell, no. Maybe he even welcomed it - he asked him for it.

So the shitstorm he started, and is ripping apart MotoGP, is his own device, creation. Honestly, it was going to be tough for him if he finished 4th at Sepang, and only held a 4-point lead going to Valencia. With the his lack of pace from the last 4 races, and his lack of pace at Valencia in general, he knew it was coming.

I personally hope he wins his appeal, and let the racing happen. Not because he was right - he should have been black flagged, just like reed - but such that the racing lets it decide the outcome, and the championship isn't cheapened by the stupid turn of events from Sepang.

Then, either way, he should GTFO of motoGP, obviously he's too big for it. Hopefully the Ducs can run with the factory teams and we have more than a 4-rider field next year. And give the factory Yamaha ride to someone deserving like Bradley Smith or Pol Espargaro - or take a chance with someone like Redding. Smith and Redding impressed beyond anyone's expectation at Misano.

Funny how Pedrosa always rides fast the last few races and Honda always keeps him. Honestly, his time has come too, no matter how much bad luck or arm pump surgery he has had.
Jspazz
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11/1/2015 5:22pm
motogrady wrote:
Hey Crusty, we're just kinda getting into the finer points of the argument IMO.

Stay tuned, CAS decision sometime this week.Laughing
Decision Friday during practice, apparently...it's going to be intense.

Would be a real treat if they bring them all in the pre-race press conference again - I can't see how they can't.
motomike137
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11/1/2015 6:04pm
Jspazz wrote:
Dive inside the turn 13 exit to throw away turn 14, before the long straight. Go wide, 20' past the apex, slow down in front of...
Dive inside the turn 13 exit to throw away turn 14, before the long straight. Go wide, 20' past the apex, slow down in front of the other rider, and look over 3 times to show you aren't racing at this point.

Roberts never did this.

And obviously this isn't allowed, for the same reason Vale was allowed to keep the Assen win. If Vale had crashed trying to make the chicane after Marquez dive bombed him, you can be sure Marquez would have been penalized.
If someone was fucking with King Kenny the way Marquez was fucking with Rossi I have a sneaking suspicion that Roberts would have done something very similar.
seth505
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11/1/2015 6:28pm
Jspazz wrote:
What's one-sided about it? Rossi had fallen to the slowest of the four, the last few rounds...momentum wasn't going his way anymore. Only rain had helped...
What's one-sided about it? Rossi had fallen to the slowest of the four, the last few rounds...momentum wasn't going his way anymore. Only rain had helped his cause, when he finished ahead of Lorenzo.

And he was getting mugged by all the other riders on the track, even Iannone at PI.

He turned his focus to something petty and stupid. Started accusing others of conspiracy, etc, when nobody had said it before, and started a war. Knowing he has at least half of MotoGP insiders and fans to support him.

Was it smart, angering Marquez and Lorenzo? Claiming that the focus (instead of his poor performance the last few races and dwindling championship lead) should be on that Lorenzo was winning because Marquez was helping him? Should he have expected any courtesy on-track from Marquez? Hell, no. Maybe he even welcomed it - he asked him for it.

So the shitstorm he started, and is ripping apart MotoGP, is his own device, creation. Honestly, it was going to be tough for him if he finished 4th at Sepang, and only held a 4-point lead going to Valencia. With the his lack of pace from the last 4 races, and his lack of pace at Valencia in general, he knew it was coming.

I personally hope he wins his appeal, and let the racing happen. Not because he was right - he should have been black flagged, just like reed - but such that the racing lets it decide the outcome, and the championship isn't cheapened by the stupid turn of events from Sepang.

Then, either way, he should GTFO of motoGP, obviously he's too big for it. Hopefully the Ducs can run with the factory teams and we have more than a 4-rider field next year. And give the factory Yamaha ride to someone deserving like Bradley Smith or Pol Espargaro - or take a chance with someone like Redding. Smith and Redding impressed beyond anyone's expectation at Misano.

Funny how Pedrosa always rides fast the last few races and Honda always keeps him. Honestly, his time has come too, no matter how much bad luck or arm pump surgery he has had.
Dude you're all over the place with word vomit. Guy is leading points all year and he should gtfo of motogp? Ha
Smith is awesome but the guys you mentioned should be factory Yamaha over Rossi? That is straight up crazy talk.
scott_nz
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11/1/2015 6:29pm
motogrady wrote:
That's crazy. He ran him off the track, into the grass, look where MM ends the turn, made sure there was no room. You have to...

That's crazy.
He ran him off the track, into the grass, look where MM ends the turn, made sure there was no room.
You have to wreck for a rough riding call?

Rossi could have gassed it, pulled the front in also, but chose to ride it out.

So could have the Honda rider.

Selective officiating at Dorna, you guys don't see that, get your eyes checked.
can you name a time where someone was penalised when the offender did not gain a place, or make the other rider crash.
seth505
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11/1/2015 6:33pm
It wasn't a takeout move...
Jspazz
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11/1/2015 7:22pm
seth505 wrote:
It wasn't a takeout move...
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was:

------------------

On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.

This is considered to be irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors and is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations.

Valentino Rossi was requested to attend a Race Direction hearing. Both riders involved were present at the hearing, both gave testimony, and video evidence was reviewed.

The decision of the Race Direction is to impose on rider #46 the addition of 3 penalty points on his record, according to Article 3.2.1. of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Disciplinary and Arbitration Code."

--------------

Article 1.21.2 reads:
"Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to
other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.
Any infringement of this rule will be penalised with one of the following
penalties: penalty points - fine - change of position - ride through – time
penalty – drop of any number of grid position at the rider’s next race –
disqualification - withdrawal of Championship points - suspension. "

--------------

It will be pretty hard to convince that he was actually being threatened by Marquez, and all the on-track riding, while hard racing, was quite fair.

It simply looks like his argument is he felt that Marquez should have let him through because he was leading the championship.

I'm curious what else he can bring to the table. I can't see how his diagram of lap charts could actually help - he was slower than Lorenzo before and after he was passed, and never achieved a faster lap than Marquez 2nd lap either. For all intents and purposes - it was a fair fight at best. And likely he was headed for a 4th place finish.
kongols
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11/1/2015 8:30pm
Jspazz wrote:
What's one-sided about it? Rossi had fallen to the slowest of the four, the last few rounds...momentum wasn't going his way anymore. Only rain had helped...
What's one-sided about it? Rossi had fallen to the slowest of the four, the last few rounds...momentum wasn't going his way anymore. Only rain had helped his cause, when he finished ahead of Lorenzo.

And he was getting mugged by all the other riders on the track, even Iannone at PI.

He turned his focus to something petty and stupid. Started accusing others of conspiracy, etc, when nobody had said it before, and started a war. Knowing he has at least half of MotoGP insiders and fans to support him.

Was it smart, angering Marquez and Lorenzo? Claiming that the focus (instead of his poor performance the last few races and dwindling championship lead) should be on that Lorenzo was winning because Marquez was helping him? Should he have expected any courtesy on-track from Marquez? Hell, no. Maybe he even welcomed it - he asked him for it.

So the shitstorm he started, and is ripping apart MotoGP, is his own device, creation. Honestly, it was going to be tough for him if he finished 4th at Sepang, and only held a 4-point lead going to Valencia. With the his lack of pace from the last 4 races, and his lack of pace at Valencia in general, he knew it was coming.

I personally hope he wins his appeal, and let the racing happen. Not because he was right - he should have been black flagged, just like reed - but such that the racing lets it decide the outcome, and the championship isn't cheapened by the stupid turn of events from Sepang.

Then, either way, he should GTFO of motoGP, obviously he's too big for it. Hopefully the Ducs can run with the factory teams and we have more than a 4-rider field next year. And give the factory Yamaha ride to someone deserving like Bradley Smith or Pol Espargaro - or take a chance with someone like Redding. Smith and Redding impressed beyond anyone's expectation at Misano.

Funny how Pedrosa always rides fast the last few races and Honda always keeps him. Honestly, his time has come too, no matter how much bad luck or arm pump surgery he has had.
Wow, what a post....
robkinuk
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11/2/2015 1:55am
The cynic in me thinks DORNA could just be orchestrating this whole thing to focus the world's media on final Moto GP!Wink Smile
kongols
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11/2/2015 3:04am
robkinuk wrote:
The cynic in me thinks DORNA could just be orchestrating this whole thing to focus the world's media on final Moto GP!Wink Smile
That`s what my brother said too. Follow the money.
11/2/2015 4:30am
Jspazz wrote:
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was: ------------------ On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the...
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was:

------------------

On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.

This is considered to be irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors and is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations.

Valentino Rossi was requested to attend a Race Direction hearing. Both riders involved were present at the hearing, both gave testimony, and video evidence was reviewed.

The decision of the Race Direction is to impose on rider #46 the addition of 3 penalty points on his record, according to Article 3.2.1. of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Disciplinary and Arbitration Code."

--------------

Article 1.21.2 reads:
"Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to
other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.
Any infringement of this rule will be penalised with one of the following
penalties: penalty points - fine - change of position - ride through – time
penalty – drop of any number of grid position at the rider’s next race –
disqualification - withdrawal of Championship points - suspension. "

--------------

It will be pretty hard to convince that he was actually being threatened by Marquez, and all the on-track riding, while hard racing, was quite fair.

It simply looks like his argument is he felt that Marquez should have let him through because he was leading the championship.

I'm curious what else he can bring to the table. I can't see how his diagram of lap charts could actually help - he was slower than Lorenzo before and after he was passed, and never achieved a faster lap than Marquez 2nd lap either. For all intents and purposes - it was a fair fight at best. And likely he was headed for a 4th place finish.
Hey Jspazz,

If I was trying to form an argumentation and was a lawyer (which Im not),

I would attack the "Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash." First I would establish what part of that sentence caused the race officials to deem it irresponsible riding. Was it

1. The "deliberately ran wide on Turn 14"
2. The "in order to force another rider off line"
3. The "resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash"

......or a combination of the three.

I THINK establishing that the first two is common place and normal and a part of racing (educating the CAS guys with thousands of hours worth of footage of how overtaking takes place)...is relatively easy (establish that judgement is subjective and that this like case law in the UK)

Then, with the aid of the video footage from the accident, I would show that the 3rd statement is simply false. MM lent into Rossi, and MM had the option of going straight or stopping. It was his judgement (i.e. Rossi didn't make him turn in), therefore his fault. So no penalty was needed.

Voilà, I just solved everything Cool

Having written that...I think, in a court, MM would have more of an argument for the Argentina crash, the way Rossi cut across his front end...(kind of like what MM did it to Thomas Lutti in Moto2). To me in MotoGP cutting across someone's front end is the equivalent to cross-jumping in motocross. At those speeds its crazy. What makes this all a bit...ridiculous is that we are putting the word 'responsible' in a sport where the guys are a little crazy no? CAS is probably gonna laugh at the idea...ure all crazy!
mmcmx
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11/2/2015 5:15am
robkinuk wrote:
The cynic in me thinks DORNA could just be orchestrating this whole thing to focus the world's media on final Moto GP!Wink Smile
kongols wrote:
That`s what my brother said too. Follow the money.
Rossi's company controls Marquez image rights.

Follow the money
Crush
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11/2/2015 6:10am
Langston fan, I just watched the Argentina race crash.

Why is it on Vale? He was in front and Marquez ran into the back of him, two times no less... If you're gonna ride that close and a change of direction is coming you take a risk... He was just setting for the next corner no?
seth505
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11/2/2015 7:18am
seth505 wrote:
It wasn't a takeout move...
Jspazz wrote:
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was: ------------------ On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the...
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was:

------------------

On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.

This is considered to be irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors and is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations.

Valentino Rossi was requested to attend a Race Direction hearing. Both riders involved were present at the hearing, both gave testimony, and video evidence was reviewed.

The decision of the Race Direction is to impose on rider #46 the addition of 3 penalty points on his record, according to Article 3.2.1. of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Disciplinary and Arbitration Code."

--------------

Article 1.21.2 reads:
"Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to
other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.
Any infringement of this rule will be penalised with one of the following
penalties: penalty points - fine - change of position - ride through – time
penalty – drop of any number of grid position at the rider’s next race –
disqualification - withdrawal of Championship points - suspension. "

--------------

It will be pretty hard to convince that he was actually being threatened by Marquez, and all the on-track riding, while hard racing, was quite fair.

It simply looks like his argument is he felt that Marquez should have let him through because he was leading the championship.

I'm curious what else he can bring to the table. I can't see how his diagram of lap charts could actually help - he was slower than Lorenzo before and after he was passed, and never achieved a faster lap than Marquez 2nd lap either. For all intents and purposes - it was a fair fight at best. And likely he was headed for a 4th place finish.
If you really think Rossi took him out then I don't know what else to say.

That said, it is obviously just my opinion, but I think defining it this way "On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash." is just totally wrong. The fact that Rossi ran him a bit wide did not cause the other rider to crash, how marquez reacted to being run wide caused him to crash.
11/2/2015 8:08am
Crush wrote:
Langston fan, I just watched the Argentina race crash. Why is it on Vale? He was in front and Marquez ran into the back of him...
Langston fan, I just watched the Argentina race crash.

Why is it on Vale? He was in front and Marquez ran into the back of him, two times no less... If you're gonna ride that close and a change of direction is coming you take a risk... He was just setting for the next corner no?
Totally agree, I just felt he has more to moan about in that instance than the Sepang incident. But he does have amazing bike control that allows him to counter back very quickly and pull off amazing passes, but it also means he is very close to the guys a around him....kind of like Canard.....oops.....oh boy.....I didn't say anything....Huh Whistling
DP#201
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11/2/2015 8:39am
Jspazz wrote:
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was: ------------------ On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the...
So what do you think will be the basis of the appeal? the charge was:

------------------

On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.

This is considered to be irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors and is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations.

Valentino Rossi was requested to attend a Race Direction hearing. Both riders involved were present at the hearing, both gave testimony, and video evidence was reviewed.

The decision of the Race Direction is to impose on rider #46 the addition of 3 penalty points on his record, according to Article 3.2.1. of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Disciplinary and Arbitration Code."

--------------

Article 1.21.2 reads:
"Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to
other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.
Any infringement of this rule will be penalised with one of the following
penalties: penalty points - fine - change of position - ride through – time
penalty – drop of any number of grid position at the rider’s next race –
disqualification - withdrawal of Championship points - suspension. "

--------------

It will be pretty hard to convince that he was actually being threatened by Marquez, and all the on-track riding, while hard racing, was quite fair.

It simply looks like his argument is he felt that Marquez should have let him through because he was leading the championship.

I'm curious what else he can bring to the table. I can't see how his diagram of lap charts could actually help - he was slower than Lorenzo before and after he was passed, and never achieved a faster lap than Marquez 2nd lap either. For all intents and purposes - it was a fair fight at best. And likely he was headed for a 4th place finish.
Yes, as you say Rossi was on route to a 4th place finish, and MM was notably faster, fast enoug to Rossi shoulden be able to pass him 3-4 times in one lap, MM could have checked out, but he didnt. And that is why there should be no penalty at all. MM was playing with VR witch there is no rules against, and he eventualy took him self out by leaning in to Rossi. It was bound to happen, eather of them was going to go fall had it continued for longer. Luckely it was MM who took the fall..
Scrambler_Man
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11/2/2015 8:54am
Maybe the entire field will let Rossi pass them before the first turn, ya know, just so we can have a great race.Blink
DP#201
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11/2/2015 9:02am
Maybe the entire field will let Rossi pass them before the first turn, ya know, just so we can have a great race.Blink
What is the rest of the fields opinion? Besides MM and JL, i know theres Grinning
ron727
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11/2/2015 9:56am


DP#201
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11/2/2015 12:02pm
I would think. It must be imposible to delibretely hit the brake lever by kicking backwards while riding forward, and if he actualy did hit the lever, i would have thougt the front weel would stop very sudden as if you try to brake your car with left foot.. But what do i know??
kongols
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11/2/2015 12:03pm
Around ten pages ago I said that I think Marquez slammed on a brakes when he realized he screwed up. Now the data confirms it since it`s physically impossible to kick front brake lever because of guard. There you have it. Now we know what caused the crash and Honda admitted it.
kongols
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11/2/2015 12:08pm
Here is his bike in Sepang.



kongols
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11/2/2015 12:09pm
They should have stuck with a previous version where it was not so obvious lie. Such a disgrace for Honda.

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