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WTF! What about the times when its a slam dunk and we KNOW they did it? By either video, multiple eye witness, or confession.?? I agree about not taking the chance on putting someone to death if we cant prove beyond any reasonable doubt they are guilty......we're only talking about the ones WE KNOW that are!
If we're paying to lock people up over a couple of joints, then the cost to house a murderer or a rapist or a kidnapper shouldn't be questioned.
So can we send them up to you to house and feed them then? I certainly dont wish to contribute. If you wish to show these evil torturous thugs compassion then you should be the ones taking care of them! Im sure many more reasonable sensible people that would agree!
I do understand your second point, which I think is all about the ridiculous amount of money it costs to jail these people. There is a serious problem here, but I would argue that most of the costs go to jailing people for petty drug crimes, rather than jailing murderers and rapists who deserve it And again until we can be more certain of the guilt of who we're executing, we'll just have to unfortunately pay to keep the scum behind bars. In a perfect world we would happily execute the worst of them and save a bunch of money in the process (the reality is death row and all the inevitable appeals end up costing more money than jailing these fuckers anyway). I think this is more the point Rooster was trying to make.
There is no such situation in law that says we KNOW. There is really only one standard and that is burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So the problem still remains. If there is a workable variation for capital cases then I would like to see the text of the jury instructions. Not saying I would be against it, just saying it doesn't exist now.
BTW, if you want me to pay for life in prison, you should be willing to pay the extra millions that it takes to execute. My way is cheaper. You keep going back to your assumption that because I am anti death penalty it's because of compassion for brutal killers. I have given my reasons for being against the death penalty. Compassion is not one of them. It was Rooster that you accused of this I know but I am assuming guilt by association.
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are you reading?
V I D E O......(AS IN CAUGHT ON CAMERA) C O N F E S S I O N ....(ADMITTING THEY DUN IT!)
M U L T I P L E ...E Y E ... W I T N E S S (SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO SAW EM DUN IT)
All the above gets it right!
So how many "slam dunk cases" does it take to make up for executing an innocent person? WTF
what does THAT have to do with getting it right, now?
You cant go back and make up for the times the justice got it wrong......but that should NOT be a factor in being easy on the truly guilty. Its like you are saying ....."oh, we owe the criminals a few" ......again, WTF
And who says that " we owe the criminals a few". I certainly didn't say that. You're totally misrepresenting our arguments. We just think that it's worth looking out for the innocent, that in no way means "being easy on the truly guilty". In fact it has been argued that a being executed is far easier on the criminals than a lifetime behind bars.
Oh sure, but not one of you that disproves of the death penalty said anything to the concern of what happened to the victim in this case. You's just attacked the people who wanted true eye for an eye justice for the victim. Some of you were obviously never questioned by your parents growing up "how would you like it if someone did that to you?"
What they are doing is offering explanations as to how these criminals ended up this way, and why it might not be fair to put someone to death when society had failed them in the first place (Sunhouse's argument).
SOCIETY FAILED THEM?????????
Right a way, its always someone elses fault isnt it? Awww , poor little criminal didnt get hugged enough when he was little! to fucking bad aint it!? No one owes YOU or ME anything! I believe we all owe it to our selves to do better and be better than those who raised us. Its called self responsibility! If you fail to live by that mind set or at least one that doesnt harm or impede on someone else then its you that are the problem! PERIOD!
As for your "do fetuses jump out of the mother and run around committing these types of crimes" argument, yes, they do- when they are of age and born into significantly disadvantaged situations. In fact, there is considerable evidence for this.
(Insert huge face palm here!) Dude you totally missed it!
Additionally, it costs way more of your tax dollars to put someone to death than to do life in prison.
REALLY?Can you explain how?
Whats inside the lethal injection needle that costs so much?. and how long does the process take? Im sure we could find volunteers (Maybe other death row inmates .....or family members of the victims) to go through all the labor for free.
But yup,... the people who want to see justice for the victims are the bad ones for coming up with these ideas.....we know how it works.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/
http://www.nbcrightnow.com/story/15519792/what-costs-more-the-death-penalty-or-life-in-prison
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.VdDY4pfLqf4
I hope you are gaining knowledge of the issue here str8.
but here is the problem.....why the hell if it can be proven beyond any reasonable doubt should they even get a shred of a chance to appeal? To me thats whats wrong with the system! If they got the guy with blood fresh on his hands that should be enough! Right out of the court room and right to the chamber.....no last fucking meal....no last call to momma!
IMO Its the way the violent criminals should be dealt with. And as one poster on page one said "put it on the nightly local news for all to see".
Some of you want these guys to suffer the same horrible acts they perpetrated on their victims. While they may deserve it, who among us is willing to lower themselves that level? Do you think a victim would heal if they were able to torture the people that hurt them the same way they were? Or do you think they'd just have to then deal with the guilt of hurting somebody on top of the horrors they've already been through.
As a society, how could we claim to be above the acts we punish them for if we perform the same crimes against them?
We are better than that. At least that's the premise our system is based on. Vengeance is what we seek in the pain of the moment, but revenge is a dish best served cold. Our system is supposed to insulate us against decisions made in the heat of the moment when people might be influenced by their emotions rather by than reasonable thought.
When the courts do decide to take a life as punishment, it's done with respect and dignity for the person who's to be punished. Do they deserve it? No. But our society has to show more respect for life than these people had. Otherwise we're no better than them.
You have an overly simplistic view of human nature. You are squarely the product of your upbringing as well as your choices (they affect you equally), and if you were abused as a child you are significantly more likely to abuse your own children and/or other people (science as well as common sense has repeatedly shown this). This is not an excuse for people's adult behavior (or an effort to reduce accountability), but it is an explanation; and an opportunity to improve for future generations. Also, society allowed these children to be repeatedly abused, and then you have people that want them to be put to death for a failure that was in some part- their fault (more specifically, the government's). Again, I'll emphasize that no-one is saying these individuals should go unpunished. In fact, life in prison/20+ years is a pretty stiff punishment and applicable to the degree of atrocity that these individuals enacted.
I'm guessing you either didn't read the article I supplied or completely misunderstood the point I was making regarding abortion. That's probably why you weren't "gonna bother". I will spell it out for you, so you can stop facepalming yourself. Statistically, we have shown legalizing abortion (Roe v. Wade) has lead to marked declines in crime because children who were going to be born into less than ideal situations with less than ideal parents (which is very solidly linked to individuals growing up to be criminals) were either never born or born instead at a later time when an individual was more mature, and financially and emotionally ready to have kids.
I can very simply explain to you why it costs more, in fact- it's been stated multiple times in this thread. I think this (and your responses to other posters in this thread) highlights your profound misunderstanding of how the justice system works. The appeals process for death-row inmates always ends up costing the state tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars more (often millions more) than convicting life-sentence inmates. In fact, there's probably never been a case where the death penalty was cheaper in modern history.
The argument about how we'd feel if it were our family member is idiotic. Anyone would let their emotions override reason in those cases. But that's not justice, that's called vengeance. And I'd hate to replace a justice system with a vengeance system.
Pit Row
So your question, while appearing to have an obvious answer, isn't really a very good one.
This is something that people should read again.
bump.
In cases where there is absolutely no doubt of who committed the crime and the crime extremely horrific then I believe in fast track death penalty. From trial, appeals and then finally a bullet in the back of the head all done in 12 months.
The two guys who killed the Petit family should have been executed long ago. Instead they will spend the rest of life in jail where they will be protected, they will have free access to education, healthcare, additional lawyers for appears. They will get free food every day. They will eventually have access to TV again. All of this paid for by the tax payers of course. That is total bullshit. If you think those two guys deserve to live then you are... I don't even know what you are. Spineless I guess.
The person who shot up that black church and killed several people..... he should be on a fast track to death. Have the trial. Have an appeal that goes to a three judge panel. If there is undeniable proof that he committed that crime he should be executed within 12 months. End of story.
Think about it.....
The most precious thing you have is your life. When someones life is taken away by someone else the only way as a society that we can demonstrate how valuable life is, is that the killer must pay with his own life.
If you say the killer should not pay with their life, then you devalue life itself. I'm not willing to do that. I believe life is valuable.
No one has a right to take your life. It can never be undone. The future is forever changed. Your life is now over.
The penalty for such a crime must be the killer pays with his own life.
It's that simple.
To state otherwise means you don't value life as much as you really should. Or you don't really understand the value of life in its entirety.
As a community, as a society, as a country, we must demonstrates that life has highest value. When a murderer takes that from someone, then the penalty must be the strongest possible penalty.
It's not about revenge, it's not about making victims family feel better. It's not about any of the things being mentioned.
It's about value of life.
Hope you're trolling.
Post a reply to: Good thing you guys are against the death penalty.