Hey Dealers: Buying in the next 48 hours, give me your quotes..

Prairieboy43
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1/30/2012
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
9/3/2015 2:35pm
Worked at a RV dealership many years ago. The Owner was Great. Rv guys would come for parts (Heater coils, Plumbing, Engine parts, AC parts, anything). If he did not have the part. He would not Order it? He would simply take the part required off a new RV and sell it to the customer. End of year there would be couple of RV missing parts. He would have a Midnight madness and sell all the leftovers on fantastic deals. He was so good he purchased a RV Manufacturer. Kept the RV manufacture business for 15 years, until a huge fire consumed everything. He never reopened. Many lost there jobs.
Sad
TailSoHard
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Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 2:37pm
Titan1 wrote:
I know how it works...I was just confused when Dave said that the dealership doesn't even own the bikes is all. And I still don't get...
I know how it works...I was just confused when Dave said that the dealership doesn't even own the bikes is all.

And I still don't get how the manufacturers can justify the prices they sell the machines to the deals at??? Why would any manufacturer set up the dealership to fail. (Because I guarantee that the manufacturer is making WAY more than $300/bike). I'm not usually a "spread the wealth around" type of guy, so the answer to my question is that the manufactures do it because dealers keep buying them.
Oh sorry that's my bad, I misread what you were asking...

The only thing I can think as to why the manufacturers don't have bigger margins is that it wouldn't change anything if they did. If we start making $2000 on a bike instead of $1000, the price game is still going to be played by people buying bikes. They'll just whittle the dealers down like they always do until the dealers are back to square one. Sure, it might be nice in the short-term to have a couple sales with a little more padding in them, but it won't take long until people catch on and just beat us up even more... The only other option is to keep costs the same but increase the MSRP of the bikes, which the consumers won't be to keen on...
9/3/2015 2:38pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Assembly and destination charge: $250 To bolt on a tire and handlebars, add oil and gas, then start A bike that carries no warranty! If that...
Assembly and destination charge: $250

To bolt on a tire and handlebars, add oil and gas, then start

A bike that carries no warranty!

If that is really a contract, it's a scam for the dealer to make money
...really....
...who spent the time placing the order to get the bikes to the dealer to begin with...
...who dealt with the finance co to get the bikes approved for delivery...
...who deals with the floor plan people when they show up to make an audit of units...
...who checked in and logged the serial numbers for the bikes...
...who unloaded the bike from the carrier to the staging area....
...with what forklift...
...from staging..who brought the bike into the shop..
...with what forklift...
...who uncrated the bike...
...who discarding the crating...
...into what dumpster...
...who assembled the bike...
...who went over the 35 items + that are required ( as stated above )...
...who pays the insurance...
...who pays the electric bill...
...who pays the mortgage or rent on the property...
...who pays the employees...
...etc. ...etc. ...

Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
9/3/2015 2:42pm
TailSoHard wrote:
Oh sorry that's my bad, I misread what you were asking... The only thing I can think as to why the manufacturers don't have bigger margins...
Oh sorry that's my bad, I misread what you were asking...

The only thing I can think as to why the manufacturers don't have bigger margins is that it wouldn't change anything if they did. If we start making $2000 on a bike instead of $1000, the price game is still going to be played by people buying bikes. They'll just whittle the dealers down like they always do until the dealers are back to square one. Sure, it might be nice in the short-term to have a couple sales with a little more padding in them, but it won't take long until people catch on and just beat us up even more... The only other option is to keep costs the same but increase the MSRP of the bikes, which the consumers won't be to keen on...
I follow you...but, since you make all your money on parts, accessories and service anyway, say the customer does whittle you down to making $300 on the bike...they would be essentially paying a grand less for it (assuming your hypothetical $1000 and $2000 numbers)...so they've got extra money to buy those parts and accessories and/or be able to afford to ride more often (which will wear out parts and accessories), so they'll spend more money on those things at your shop.

Or, you sell the bike at current prices and can actually make a decent living, and/or grow your business and hire more people and help the economy.



The Shop

TailSoHard
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Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 2:46pm
Titan1 wrote:
I follow you...but, since you make all your money on parts, accessories and service anyway, say the customer does whittle you down to making $300 on...
I follow you...but, since you make all your money on parts, accessories and service anyway, say the customer does whittle you down to making $300 on the bike...they would be essentially paying a grand less for it (assuming your hypothetical $1000 and $2000 numbers)...so they've got extra money to buy those parts and accessories and/or be able to afford to ride more often (which will wear out parts and accessories), so they'll spend more money on those things at your shop.

Or, you sell the bike at current prices and can actually make a decent living, and/or grow your business and hire more people and help the economy.



...hopefully lol

I'd love it if it worked out that way, but the biggest hurdle is convincing the manufacturers (in Japan...) to sacrifice some of their profit so that we can have some...
whammy
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Buffalo, NY, USA
9/3/2015 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 2:50pm
Honestly, I thought you were trolling someone at MIT until I saw you plug your sponsors in your PHD thesis.

Hats off man. Even if you weren't intelligent enough to get accepted for undergrad, you're still OK in my books.
downard254
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Location
Bremen, OH, USA
9/3/2015 5:21pm
mtl wrote:
Looking for one of the following: 2015 CRF250R 2016 CRF250R Looking for them in-crate and shipped to San Francisco area. I will pick up at any...
Looking for one of the following:

2015 CRF250R
2016 CRF250R


Looking for them in-crate and shipped to San Francisco area. I will pick up at any terminal, preferable in Brisbane, California. Dealer can handle freight service or I will do it.

If interested send quotes to mtl@mit.edu or call 518-727-4181

Note: I bought a 2015 CRF450R and CRF250R in January out of Michigan, if you're going to give me astronomical quotes please don't waste your valuable time.

-thanks
-mtl
So that we can provide the best pricing to you, could you please provide the following information:
1) full name
2) current mailing address
3) date of birth
4) social security number
5) bank account and bank routing numbers

Anxiously awaiting your reply.Smile
TeamGreen
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Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
9/3/2015 5:42pm
mtl wrote:
On an out of state deal it is the buyers responsibility to register and pay taxes on the bike, not the dealers to collect it. Situations...

On an out of state deal it is the buyers responsibility to register and pay taxes on the bike, not the dealers to collect it.

Situations like this result in a few hundred dollars of negotiating room that are in favor of the dealer as many of these machines get raced, not ridden on roads/OHV areas and are never registered.

I've been a heavy racer for 11 years now and have never bought a bike in state for these reasons. I have also spent $600 in the past few weeks @ East Bay Motorsports to rebuild the motor on my 2015 250F.

All of the clowns shitting on this request because of dealer loyalty should think before typing.
Haven't read all of the posts since this...so...

You will find few, if any, dealers in California that will, can or even now how to sell you a bike with an MSO & virtually ALL of them will tell you that they have to deliver it to you outside of the state/over the state-line (& usually don't know that an out of state BoL will suffice)...also, there are forms that're virtually a "release of liability/POA" that they don't even know about.

Berkeley Honda knows ALL of this (btw, they're VERY involved in Honda's Off-Road program).
cwtoyota
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Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
9/3/2015 5:44pm
Shops are either moto friendly or not. Many dealerships in, or near big urban areas don't have much use for an mx racer who wants everything...
Shops are either moto friendly or not. Many dealerships in, or near big urban areas don't have much use for an mx racer who wants everything at a huge discount.
Not when Johnny Office Worker comes in and actually needs the expertise and help of the shop in selecting a bike. That's the main asset of a motorcycle salesman IMO- helping less knowledgable customers decide. And Johnny Office Worker will drop a HUGE amount on accessories too, and if you function as their guru they will buy from you again and again.
I'm not anti-dealer, but I have personally never talked to a salesman who has ever been on a backward falling starting gate. That's fine, but most of them have never ridden a track, let alone one of these bikes.

In most cases, Johnny office worker isn't getting years of experience riding and racing, Johnny office worker is getting years of experience "moving units" off of a showroom floor.


I thank Johnny office worker for increasing the effect of "economies of scale", thus reducing the OTD price of my race bike. When Johnny has to choose between his townhouse and Lexus payment or his loan on the $8500 motocross bike in the garage with only 8 hours on it, I'll be happy to give him $5000 cash for it. Thanks Johnny.


One of those 'helpful' salesmen sold a buddy of mine (who is the apitome of a Johnny office-worker) a Yamaha R1. Unfortunately, my buddy had never ridden any kind of motorcycle in his life. Good choice johnny... Good choice.
Steel
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Simi Valley, CA, USA
9/3/2015 5:44pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 5:47pm
TailSoHard wrote:
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise...
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise I totally would. I can guarantee you he wouldn't like the quote I send him, but I'd send it either way

It's always funny to me to hear how much money consumers think we dealers make on a brand new bike. I had one guy tell me that he knows for a fact we make roughly $2500 on an $8000 bike sale and I had a tough time not laughing in his face. I'm lucky if I make $300 on a motocross bike these days and here's why:

IF someone pays full-retail for a roughly $8000 bike (which never happens...hence the "IF"), we make less than $1000. Now, when that customer calls around to two different dealers (we'll call them A and B ), he can find dealer A is willing to make only $500 on that sale in order to earn his business. So, he calls dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for a $500 profit, can you do better?" To which they say "I guess if that's what it takes, sure, we'll do it for $350 profit..." So then he calls back to dealer A and yells at them for not giving them their "best price" right from the get-go. So they offer to do it for $100 profit but he says "no, I'm gonna go with dealer B cause they treated me right from the beginning". So he goes back to dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for $100 profit". And then they say "ok, well we'll just do it at $0 profit since you're a local guy and we like to take care of our local customers"... And so on. Then after buying his bike, he wants all his parts to match all the online prices, otherwise he might as well just go buy them online. So, that's what he does since the dealer can't match the price of an online retailer that moves 500 helmets per month when the dealer only sells 20. What blows my mind is that after all that, the dude STILL assumes that the dealer is making thousands on that sale...which is insane. A $300 profit on a year-long $8000 investment is not enough to keep food on the table. For all you people who suck at math, that's a 3% profit that took us a year to get. BUT, that profit got cancelled out by the 2014 model I had to sell at a loss because Mr "I'm a sponsored rider, I deserve a deal" wanted it for less than what Yamaha sold it to me for...

So, yeah, we don't make any money selling you guys motocross bikes...

What the dealers have going for them is the experience. The successful dealerships sell things based on emotions. Most people will literally pay more for the same product just because they like the person selling it or the experience they had while buying it (or having a shitty experience at another dealer). Harley Davidson is a great example. Shit bikes, shit clothes, shit prices, shit people, but they sell 1 out of every 3 bikes sold today. It's all based on the feeling you get from having a Harley. It's the branding. It's the emotion behind the name and the experience.

Not everyone is a "price-shopper". There are people willing to pay more for a product if they have a good experience. Ironically, those are also the people that end up getting the best deals from the dealerships. The loyal ones. As Shane mentioned, it's a two-way street guys. Take an interest in shopping at your local dealership, show them that you care, and they'll bend over backwards for you. The online retailers do business by saying "here's what it costs, take it or leave it, it'll be there in four days". Local dealerships do business by saying "Hey, how are you doing today, sir? What would you like me to do for you?"... See the difference? They're selling you the experience. A relationship. Two people doing business together. Not a person buying from a robot.

And then people wonder why dealerships keep closing and jobs keep getting shipped overseas. It's cause consumers are just that: consumers. They consume. They don't give. Just take and take.

I've said it before: learn how to buy before you complain about how people sell.
A $300 profit on a year-long $8000 investment is not enough to keep food on the table. For all you people who suck at math, that's a 3% profit that took us a year to get.

You might want to check your math again, Einstein. Maybe that is why you are losing money selling bikes.......
cwtoyota
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Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
9/3/2015 5:48pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 5:49pm
downard254 wrote:
So that we can provide the best pricing to you, could you please provide the following information: 1) full name 2) current mailing address 3) date...
So that we can provide the best pricing to you, could you please provide the following information:
1) full name
2) current mailing address
3) date of birth
4) social security number
5) bank account and bank routing numbers

Anxiously awaiting your reply.Smile
You sound like this one Nigerian prince I know... He said he'll be getting back to me soon.
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
9/3/2015 5:49pm
Titan1 wrote:
Honestly, I appreciate this thread...it's helped me understand, at least a little bit, what dealerships are dealing with. Does anyone have any insight into how much...
Honestly, I appreciate this thread...it's helped me understand, at least a little bit, what dealerships are dealing with.

Does anyone have any insight into how much money the manufactures make when they sell a unit to the dealership?

Of course, flarider mentioned that the dealers don't even own the bikes that are in their showroom...so this makes even less sense to me. If the dealer doesn't own them, then why do they have to pay interest on their loan/line of credit to have them in their showroom?

The small profit margins would be understandable if the manufacturers were simply using the dealers floor space to move inventory and it didn't cost the dealership any money to have them there, then $300 is fine with me. But to charge them a ton of money (and interest) on a bike they don't even "own" and then to only make $300 is crazy.
flarider wrote:
Units are "floor planned," as are car dealerships. The manufacturer doesn't "loan" the bikes to the dealers to sell, they sell them to the dealers, but...
Units are "floor planned," as are car dealerships. The manufacturer doesn't "loan" the bikes to the dealers to sell, they sell them to the dealers, but since the dealer doesn't have hundreds of thousands or millions in liquid assets available to be tied up (like it is in the parts and accessories dept), the dealer turns to a finance company who buys the units from the Mfg and then holds the "note" on the machine until sold, and the dealer pays a small interest fee for that loan.

But go back to what I just said, everything you see in the Parts, Accessories and Service departments, are paid for assets out of that dealer's pocket, so if that clutch cable ordered for the 2013 CRF150 doesn't sell, he's stuck with it...he owns it. That bottle of Maxima? He owns it. All that gear and all that stuff you see other than bikes, they own. Think about the value of inventory of the 20-50 helmets you see on display, which of course it seems everyone wants him to stock in every size imaginable....you can have 10's of thousands of dollars tied up in helmets alone!!
"Flooring"

It can kill you.
KTMShane699
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1307
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Location
Colchester, CT, USA
9/3/2015 5:51pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 5:52pm
TailSoHard wrote:
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise...
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise I totally would. I can guarantee you he wouldn't like the quote I send him, but I'd send it either way

It's always funny to me to hear how much money consumers think we dealers make on a brand new bike. I had one guy tell me that he knows for a fact we make roughly $2500 on an $8000 bike sale and I had a tough time not laughing in his face. I'm lucky if I make $300 on a motocross bike these days and here's why:

IF someone pays full-retail for a roughly $8000 bike (which never happens...hence the "IF"), we make less than $1000. Now, when that customer calls around to two different dealers (we'll call them A and B ), he can find dealer A is willing to make only $500 on that sale in order to earn his business. So, he calls dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for a $500 profit, can you do better?" To which they say "I guess if that's what it takes, sure, we'll do it for $350 profit..." So then he calls back to dealer A and yells at them for not giving them their "best price" right from the get-go. So they offer to do it for $100 profit but he says "no, I'm gonna go with dealer B cause they treated me right from the beginning". So he goes back to dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for $100 profit". And then they say "ok, well we'll just do it at $0 profit since you're a local guy and we like to take care of our local customers"... And so on. Then after buying his bike, he wants all his parts to match all the online prices, otherwise he might as well just go buy them online. So, that's what he does since the dealer can't match the price of an online retailer that moves 500 helmets per month when the dealer only sells 20. What blows my mind is that after all that, the dude STILL assumes that the dealer is making thousands on that sale...which is insane. A $300 profit on a year-long $8000 investment is not enough to keep food on the table. For all you people who suck at math, that's a 3% profit that took us a year to get. BUT, that profit got cancelled out by the 2014 model I had to sell at a loss because Mr "I'm a sponsored rider, I deserve a deal" wanted it for less than what Yamaha sold it to me for...

So, yeah, we don't make any money selling you guys motocross bikes...

What the dealers have going for them is the experience. The successful dealerships sell things based on emotions. Most people will literally pay more for the same product just because they like the person selling it or the experience they had while buying it (or having a shitty experience at another dealer). Harley Davidson is a great example. Shit bikes, shit clothes, shit prices, shit people, but they sell 1 out of every 3 bikes sold today. It's all based on the feeling you get from having a Harley. It's the branding. It's the emotion behind the name and the experience.

Not everyone is a "price-shopper". There are people willing to pay more for a product if they have a good experience. Ironically, those are also the people that end up getting the best deals from the dealerships. The loyal ones. As Shane mentioned, it's a two-way street guys. Take an interest in shopping at your local dealership, show them that you care, and they'll bend over backwards for you. The online retailers do business by saying "here's what it costs, take it or leave it, it'll be there in four days". Local dealerships do business by saying "Hey, how are you doing today, sir? What would you like me to do for you?"... See the difference? They're selling you the experience. A relationship. Two people doing business together. Not a person buying from a robot.

And then people wonder why dealerships keep closing and jobs keep getting shipped overseas. It's cause consumers are just that: consumers. They consume. They don't give. Just take and take.

I've said it before: learn how to buy before you complain about how people sell.
Steel wrote:
[b]A $300 profit on a year-long $8000 investment is not enough to keep food on the table. For all you people who suck at math, that's...
A $300 profit on a year-long $8000 investment is not enough to keep food on the table. For all you people who suck at math, that's a 3% profit that took us a year to get.

You might want to check your math again, Einstein. Maybe that is why you are losing money selling bikes.......
You're right. It's a whopping 3.75% profit. That makes it all better. Glad that's cleared up. From the poor house to being wealthy. Just like that. That extra 0.75% profit on $8,000 amounts to a whole $60.

Shane
avidchimp
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9/3/2015 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 6:30pm
Titan1 wrote:
I follow you...but, since you make all your money on parts, accessories and service anyway, say the customer does whittle you down to making $300 on...
I follow you...but, since you make all your money on parts, accessories and service anyway, say the customer does whittle you down to making $300 on the bike...they would be essentially paying a grand less for it (assuming your hypothetical $1000 and $2000 numbers)...so they've got extra money to buy those parts and accessories and/or be able to afford to ride more often (which will wear out parts and accessories), so they'll spend more money on those things at your shop.

Or, you sell the bike at current prices and can actually make a decent living, and/or grow your business and hire more people and help the economy.



TailSoHard wrote:
...hopefully lol I'd love it if it worked out that way, but the biggest hurdle is convincing the manufacturers (in Japan...) to sacrifice some of their...
...hopefully lol

I'd love it if it worked out that way, but the biggest hurdle is convincing the manufacturers (in Japan...) to sacrifice some of their profit so that we can have some...
IMHO, the biggest obstacle facing the dealership model is competeing against mail-order companies that don't have to pay warehousing costs/interest on parts and accessories sitting unsold. Todays customer doesn't have to do anything but drink some beer on a Tuesday night and order what he/she wants online, only to have to open his door for the UPS driver 2 days later.
Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
9/3/2015 6:38pm
avidchimp wrote:
IMHO, the biggest obstacle facing the dealership model is competeing against mail-order companies that don't have to pay warehousing costs/interest on parts and accessories sitting unsold...
IMHO, the biggest obstacle facing the dealership model is competeing against mail-order companies that don't have to pay warehousing costs/interest on parts and accessories sitting unsold. Todays customer doesn't have to do anything but drink some beer on a Tuesday night and order what he/she wants online, only to have to open his door for the UPS driver 2 days later.
Is there a reason a dealership couldn't replicate the drop-ship model that the mail order places use (and ship the part right to the customers home...they could even order off a website)?
avidchimp
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9/3/2015 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 6:49pm
avidchimp wrote:
IMHO, the biggest obstacle facing the dealership model is competeing against mail-order companies that don't have to pay warehousing costs/interest on parts and accessories sitting unsold...
IMHO, the biggest obstacle facing the dealership model is competeing against mail-order companies that don't have to pay warehousing costs/interest on parts and accessories sitting unsold. Todays customer doesn't have to do anything but drink some beer on a Tuesday night and order what he/she wants online, only to have to open his door for the UPS driver 2 days later.
Titan1 wrote:
Is there a reason a dealership couldn't replicate the drop-ship model that the mail order places use (and ship the part right to the customers home...they...
Is there a reason a dealership couldn't replicate the drop-ship model that the mail order places use (and ship the part right to the customers home...they could even order off a website)?
Marketing dollars (and a very healthy reserve) = Market share. There is a vary small piece of the pie everyone is going for, and certain companies have 99% of the rest of it locked up.
Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
9/3/2015 6:58pm
avidchimp wrote:
Marketing dollars (and a very healthy reserve) = Market share. There is a vary small piece of the pie everyone is going for, and certain companies...
Marketing dollars (and a very healthy reserve) = Market share. There is a vary small piece of the pie everyone is going for, and certain companies have 99% of the rest of it locked up.
I'm not suggesting that they try and compete with Motorsport and Rocky Mountain...I'm suggesting that they only try and serve their current customers (not try and buy marketshare), basically if they have to order the parts in anyway, why not ship them direct to the customer, and pass the eliminated flooring cost on to the customer so the prices are more inline with the big online retailers?

I've got a friend that runs a drop ship company out of his house...he sells anything and everything on his website, and then ships it from the manufacturer direct to the customer. He's not making a killing doing it, but probably makes low 6 figures...which isn't bad from his bedroom, on a crappy little website.

Again, I know nothing about running a dealership or a drop ship company...I'm just asking a question (not being Mr. Know-it-all).
9/3/2015 6:59pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 7:08pm
Id love to know what planet some of the dealers you guys describe is located. Apparently every dealer is a gentle soul who will treat you like family and give great deals, yet is barely making a penny on each sale- barely enough to feed porridge to his poor son tiny tim . I have NEVER been to a single dealer (and ive been to a lot) who wasnt filled to the gills with nothing but crooks who lie and misrepresent at every opportunity. I know there are decent dealers, I just havent found many unfortunately. Edit: actually I was talking about the parts and service depts. More than floor salesman. So disregard my comment lol. Ive only dealt with lying assholes at every dealer parts and service dept ive dealt with.
jasonv43
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Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
9/3/2015 7:19pm
I just want to know who is stepping up and paying 22 G's for this bad boy?



RMT
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Chicagoland, IL, USA
9/3/2015 7:21pm
There are so many misconceptions in this thread from the consumer side it's crazy.

I will say this, I have seen it asked several times, if you make so little money, then why do it? The answer is that we are all addicts just like you, but worse, we went pro. It's mostly done out of passion and many couldn't think about doing anything else.
Some try, but the normal world of 9-5 and having to work with people that talk about golf and baseball stats all the time is unbearable.

I don't work at a dealer but instead the other side, but can tell you everything they have said is very true. Everyone wants something for free and begrudge you if they think you made a dollar off them.

One last thing, being loyal to a dealership has nothing to do with proximity to said dealer. If your local dealer sucks, then drive right past him and find a good one. They are out there.

If I still lived within 250 miles of Kansas City, there is one dealer I would go to exclusively and never even question the price I was given. They are just that good and supportive of motocross and racing in general.
RMT
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9/3/2015 7:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 7:34pm
Id love to know what planet some of the dealers you guys describe is located. Apparently every dealer is a gentle soul who will treat you...
Id love to know what planet some of the dealers you guys describe is located. Apparently every dealer is a gentle soul who will treat you like family and give great deals, yet is barely making a penny on each sale- barely enough to feed porridge to his poor son tiny tim . I have NEVER been to a single dealer (and ive been to a lot) who wasnt filled to the gills with nothing but crooks who lie and misrepresent at every opportunity. I know there are decent dealers, I just havent found many unfortunately. Edit: actually I was talking about the parts and service depts. More than floor salesman. So disregard my comment lol. Ive only dealt with lying assholes at every dealer parts and service dept ive dealt with.
Flip that around. If every customer wants everything for cheap and In stock today, how can they afford to hire good people to answer your questions? It's kinda a what came first type of deal. No money to be made or bad service. It's a downward spiral.
9/3/2015 7:35pm
Shops are either moto friendly or not. Many dealerships in, or near big urban areas don't have much use for an mx racer who wants everything...
Shops are either moto friendly or not. Many dealerships in, or near big urban areas don't have much use for an mx racer who wants everything at a huge discount.
Not when Johnny Office Worker comes in and actually needs the expertise and help of the shop in selecting a bike. That's the main asset of a motorcycle salesman IMO- helping less knowledgable customers decide. And Johnny Office Worker will drop a HUGE amount on accessories too, and if you function as their guru they will buy from you again and again.
cwtoyota wrote:
I'm not anti-dealer, but I have personally never talked to a salesman who has ever been on a backward falling starting gate. That's fine, but most...
I'm not anti-dealer, but I have personally never talked to a salesman who has ever been on a backward falling starting gate. That's fine, but most of them have never ridden a track, let alone one of these bikes.

In most cases, Johnny office worker isn't getting years of experience riding and racing, Johnny office worker is getting years of experience "moving units" off of a showroom floor.


I thank Johnny office worker for increasing the effect of "economies of scale", thus reducing the OTD price of my race bike. When Johnny has to choose between his townhouse and Lexus payment or his loan on the $8500 motocross bike in the garage with only 8 hours on it, I'll be happy to give him $5000 cash for it. Thanks Johnny.


One of those 'helpful' salesmen sold a buddy of mine (who is the apitome of a Johnny office-worker) a Yamaha R1. Unfortunately, my buddy had never ridden any kind of motorcycle in his life. Good choice johnny... Good choice.
Motorcycle sales has an ethical dimension like many professions. Most new riders are sucked in purely by image. They wanna look like the guy in the movie or magazine ad. I've had guy wanting to buy a V-Max for a first bike and talked them down. Only a total dickhead would put a rookie on a super fast sportbike. But I am sure it happens.
kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
USA
9/3/2015 7:35pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Then list the price and what you can and can't do, no big deal
Motodork wrote:
Why engage with someone that is asking from the start to do something they know is against the rules. How about in a proud and honorable...
Why engage with someone that is asking from the start to do something they know is against the rules. How about in a proud and honorable society we call out the scum bag that starts with asking for something that is not allowed, just like I would call someone out in public for doing something that is not socially acceptable.
That seems fair to me!
kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
USA
9/3/2015 7:38pm
Whoever went to a restaurant and after ordering from the menu the waiter came back with the receipt with extras on it that said "$19.95 for the meal and $7 for getting the food here and cooking it for you"?
9/3/2015 8:05pm
Dealers, I feel your pain. But some of you have thrown "capitalism" around as justification for making a profit. As consumers, the way that this works is that the consumer shops around for the lowest price: the "calling dealer A and B" scenario that pisses you off so much. The theory of capitalism is that the most fit dealer will win, and the other less fit dealer may die. That is how capitalism works. So it's great if you make a profit, but you have to do it on the battlefield: we consumers don't owe you anything. It's not our job to gain the right to a sweet deal.

I also rode for a dealer in the 00s and got my 15% off. I was cool with and knew most of the guys at that dealership. I got Christmas cards because I spent 1000s of dollars there year after year. I brought my bike in to have the cases split and some work done one year and it came back leaking. That relationship went to shit right there, so keep in mind that loyalty goes both ways. I think it was a new guy that boned it but the manager didn't make it right. So I moved on. There are a lot of dealers that do shit work, but for what they have to pay it shouldn't be a surprise I guess.

Look, the system is broken and needs repair. Car dealerships are going away soon too: it's going the way of Tesla. We're tired of haggling for fees and being scammed because you need to make money. Make it a flat fee, a la Costco and let's call a truce. It's going to happen whether you like it or not. Remember Circuit City, Tweeter, Federated, The Wiz, Best Buy (maybe they're still alive for the moment?), etc? They didn't adapt, and now they're dead. It's really up to the manufacturers but the internet has empowered consumers to race to the bottom - sadly, that is capitalism. And it isn't just hurting you, it's going to strangle our way of life in the next 50 years. Your smart phone will tell a robot what McSandwich you want, and your driverless car will bring you there to pick it up or it'll be brought to you by drone. It will be cheap because robots are cheap but only a handful of people will be able to afford it because no one will have a job.
9/3/2015 8:06pm
RMT wrote:
Flip that around. If every customer wants everything for cheap and In stock today, how can they afford to hire good people to answer your questions...
Flip that around. If every customer wants everything for cheap and In stock today, how can they afford to hire good people to answer your questions? It's kinda a what came first type of deal. No money to be made or bad service. It's a downward spiral.
Fair enough. I know the public can be insufferable pieces of garbage sometimes.
cwtoyota
Posts
2411
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
9/3/2015 8:32pm
Dealers, I feel your pain. But some of you have thrown "capitalism" around as justification for making a profit. As consumers, the way that this works...
Dealers, I feel your pain. But some of you have thrown "capitalism" around as justification for making a profit. As consumers, the way that this works is that the consumer shops around for the lowest price: the "calling dealer A and B" scenario that pisses you off so much. The theory of capitalism is that the most fit dealer will win, and the other less fit dealer may die. That is how capitalism works. So it's great if you make a profit, but you have to do it on the battlefield: we consumers don't owe you anything. It's not our job to gain the right to a sweet deal.

I also rode for a dealer in the 00s and got my 15% off. I was cool with and knew most of the guys at that dealership. I got Christmas cards because I spent 1000s of dollars there year after year. I brought my bike in to have the cases split and some work done one year and it came back leaking. That relationship went to shit right there, so keep in mind that loyalty goes both ways. I think it was a new guy that boned it but the manager didn't make it right. So I moved on. There are a lot of dealers that do shit work, but for what they have to pay it shouldn't be a surprise I guess.

Look, the system is broken and needs repair. Car dealerships are going away soon too: it's going the way of Tesla. We're tired of haggling for fees and being scammed because you need to make money. Make it a flat fee, a la Costco and let's call a truce. It's going to happen whether you like it or not. Remember Circuit City, Tweeter, Federated, The Wiz, Best Buy (maybe they're still alive for the moment?), etc? They didn't adapt, and now they're dead. It's really up to the manufacturers but the internet has empowered consumers to race to the bottom - sadly, that is capitalism. And it isn't just hurting you, it's going to strangle our way of life in the next 50 years. Your smart phone will tell a robot what McSandwich you want, and your driverless car will bring you there to pick it up or it'll be brought to you by drone. It will be cheap because robots are cheap but only a handful of people will be able to afford it because no one will have a job.
Man you made some good points here.
downard254
Posts
4073
Joined
12/10/2012
Location
Bremen, OH, USA
9/3/2015 8:44pm
downard254 wrote:
So that we can provide the best pricing to you, could you please provide the following information: 1) full name 2) current mailing address 3) date...
So that we can provide the best pricing to you, could you please provide the following information:
1) full name
2) current mailing address
3) date of birth
4) social security number
5) bank account and bank routing numbers

Anxiously awaiting your reply.Smile
cwtoyota wrote:
You sound like this one Nigerian prince I know... He said he'll be getting back to me soon.
Well, at least someone caught it. I really couldn't resist the urge to throw that out there.
9/3/2015 8:48pm
Dealers, I feel your pain. But some of you have thrown "capitalism" around as justification for making a profit. As consumers, the way that this works...
Dealers, I feel your pain. But some of you have thrown "capitalism" around as justification for making a profit. As consumers, the way that this works is that the consumer shops around for the lowest price: the "calling dealer A and B" scenario that pisses you off so much. The theory of capitalism is that the most fit dealer will win, and the other less fit dealer may die. That is how capitalism works. So it's great if you make a profit, but you have to do it on the battlefield: we consumers don't owe you anything. It's not our job to gain the right to a sweet deal.

I also rode for a dealer in the 00s and got my 15% off. I was cool with and knew most of the guys at that dealership. I got Christmas cards because I spent 1000s of dollars there year after year. I brought my bike in to have the cases split and some work done one year and it came back leaking. That relationship went to shit right there, so keep in mind that loyalty goes both ways. I think it was a new guy that boned it but the manager didn't make it right. So I moved on. There are a lot of dealers that do shit work, but for what they have to pay it shouldn't be a surprise I guess.

Look, the system is broken and needs repair. Car dealerships are going away soon too: it's going the way of Tesla. We're tired of haggling for fees and being scammed because you need to make money. Make it a flat fee, a la Costco and let's call a truce. It's going to happen whether you like it or not. Remember Circuit City, Tweeter, Federated, The Wiz, Best Buy (maybe they're still alive for the moment?), etc? They didn't adapt, and now they're dead. It's really up to the manufacturers but the internet has empowered consumers to race to the bottom - sadly, that is capitalism. And it isn't just hurting you, it's going to strangle our way of life in the next 50 years. Your smart phone will tell a robot what McSandwich you want, and your driverless car will bring you there to pick it up or it'll be brought to you by drone. It will be cheap because robots are cheap but only a handful of people will be able to afford it because no one will have a job.
cwtoyota wrote:
Man you made some good points here.
Thanks - I feel bad making them because I want my dealers to survive. But the world is changing and it's changing fast.
keith101
Posts
256
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
AU
9/3/2015 10:05pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 10:06pm
We used to be a 5 line dealer and I will tell you a couple secrets.....1. Dealers do not make a ton of money on new...
We used to be a 5 line dealer and I will tell you a couple secrets.....1. Dealers do not make a ton of money on new bikes. 2. Most shops will bend over backwards for a loyal customer that calls them first, buys parts and accessories from them and spread the good word about the shop. NOTHING gets under a dealers skin like walking in and saying "So-and-So Powersports will sell me this bike for $8000 out the door, what can you do?" Build a good relationship with a dealer close by and it will pay off for you over the coming years.

keith101 wrote:
You are kidding I hope. "Dealers don't make a ton of money"...right. Most dealers are crooks in disguise, so while many have tried the loyal route...
You are kidding I hope.

"Dealers don't make a ton of money"...right.

Most dealers are crooks in disguise, so while many have tried the loyal route, dealers are pretty much straight up slime in our book. BTW: Haggling with dealers will be a thing of the past in coming years...sames for Cars, brokers, etc. so get used to it.

Steadman wrote:
Keith you are an ignorant asshole. I have worked for a couple of dealers over the span of 20 years, and I can tell you, they...

Keith you are an ignorant asshole.

I have worked for a couple of dealers over the span of 20 years, and I can tell you, they don't make a ton of money. Most dealers make just enough to keep the doors open and a few people employed. There are a few dealers that may be the exception. The last shop I worked in the owner had to remortgage his home just to keep the doors open, and I can tell you, that family were anything but crooks like you make dealers out to be. They also had a good customer base. People liked to deal with them. Not saying there are not any shitty dealers out there either, they do exist, but people like you who portray all dealers as crooks need to shut up. Let me ask, what do you do for a living?

If people on this forum think dealers are rolling in the cash, then why don't you get a job down at your local shop and reap the rewards of the powersports industry, better yet go open your own shop and see how easy and profitable it is. Then come back on this forum and tell everyone about your new secret to making the big money.

Anyone who talks shit about this industry who has never been directly involved in it don't have a pot to piss in. Don't flap your gums about something you don't know anything about.

Anyone who frowns upon a dealer making ANY sort of money needs to take a step back and have a look at themselves. How did YOU get paid this week? Did the company you own or work for make money? Or heavens no, did they make a profit? Is everyone else in the world allowed to make money with the exception of a dealer?

Am I pissed? Obviously. I'm just so sick of the losers are this forum who talk shit and act like they know.

End rant.



Dear Steadman, please wipe away your tears.

The past doesn't = the future in this case. So while you are still driving your 72 Cutlas Supreme and listening to REO Speadwagon on your 8 track, I'm sorry to bust your bubble, but in the future, thankfully, you, me and everyone else on this forum won't have to worry about haggling with salesmen any longer---The same will apply to buying a car, a house and many other products where's there's traditionally been a sleazy salesperson involved.

The real question is how will idots like you, which live in past,adjust to the fast approaching wave. If history repeats itself, you've be blown away. Now go turn up the music and STFU!

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