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You listed 18 years yet only 11 riders , if I had wanted to I could have also made a list of 18 years in which an AMA national champ went to the GP series , so what exactly are you trying to prove with that one ?
You also stated this , "Most were very good at the nationals but SX, no."
If that's the case how come those riders you listed have 10 SX titles between them , yet only have 6 outdoor titles , how can that be so ?
But whatever it's not their series so I can understand it if they want a holiday and to not race, however, if I was a pro racer I'd wanna whip foreigners ass coming to my back yard.
Damn right there wouldn't be an American race in Europe without the GP boys rocking up
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I should have said since JMB as they consider that a flood gate opener so to speak.
It would be a harder argument to make as it did not happen a lot and in recent years until RV's decision you went to the GP's as a last resort.
In Supercross you see there is quite a difference in the 125/250 bikes and 250/450. You see 10 titles, the correct answer is 1. Regional titles are not considered a national championship which just proved my point 1 AMA SX titles vs 6 outdoor and 5 of those where on bigger displacement(Bigger accomplishment imo)
Whats all this regional / small bike titles don't count bollocks now ? , You are just moving the goals posts to suit yourself .
If the lower classes don't count , then lets have another count up on all those 18 GP title winners you listed , and see what we get ,
well I make that a big fat zero ,
Its past midnight here now , so gonna bid you a good evening ........... until next time !
Like your post a lot.
Villopoto was a truly dominant champion in his prime at 25,vastly experienced,like Dungey,who he continually dominated,he would have won more races over here for sure but his general performances could be the measure of the Euros in their GP series,same as Dungey's rides at recent MXdN,
You can make all differrent assumptions of those going to the US,I noticed you're counting the same champion more than one as far as titles too,there are many arguments to consider though,MM25 did beat Roczen,as Roczen beat Herlings but it's all a progression,IMO Musquin would've been a better rider if he's stayed here,he had a lot of injuries and I don't think he's progressed too much,put all 3 back in MX2 and I still think Herlings would beat Roczen and in turn Musquin
As bench racing goes in this never ending argument:
No one ever came from the premier MX1 class,arguably the last genuine top class guy was Tortelli,all others were from the feeder class
Langston only raced 125's and never the bigger classes,Pichon never won his title when Everts was there (Reed never raced him either) he won a 250 title when Everts,Smets and Bervoerts were all in the bigger class,,Tommy went but got injured,Max was a teenager who went as an amateur,now moved on and JMB never raced the "big boy" class over here where Thorpe,Geboers etc were,the debates could go on,I'm not bagging on great riders here just debating the flip-side
The best talents in the GP over the last 15 years havn't all gone to the US,Everts,Beirer,Bervoerts,Smets,Bolley,Coppins,Ramon,Philipaerts,Cairoli,Desalle,Nagl,Febvre are the bigger premier class talents in those recent years,guys like Herlings,Paulin,among those from the 250 class where there are many coming through but migration has slowed dramatically lately,there's some serious talent coming through too
Anyhow the argument on the 2 series still hits a brick wall when Dungey claims it's tougher there when there's a lack of AMA riders in the GP's to guage exactly how tough the GP's are-now RV's out
At the end of the day it's impossible to fully gauge the other series
Just an FYI I do agree with Dungey on the tracks they have been shit this year for the most part...but not so much on the competition...but I do love that the real butt hurt trolls pull out his Lommel moto finishes card as a comparison...
There are some real trolls on both sides in this thread...please don't feed the trolls!
The criticism of Dungey not competing in both the USGP and MXDN is ridiculous, the guy has raced 6 des Nations in a row for Team USA. Winning 3, losing 3. His results in the three wins 2009 3-1, 2010 1-1, and 2011 3-2. In the three loses: 2012 7-9, 2013 6-7, and 2014 2-11. He must have forgot how to race between 2011 and 2012 or the GP guys really stepped it up or maybe the schedule change and being off of racing for over a month between the last National and the des Nations plays a factor,
Or maybe the tracks are a factor. There is nothing like Lommel in the US, and to be honest none of our National tracks get hard pack because our track crews know how to prep and build a good professional race track. You don't let racers that are 10-20 seconds a lap cut lines into a track and then let those lines bake in the afternoon sun, then flood it with water that sits on top. The hard ruts and lines that are developed by slower riders makes the tracks very different than what the GP guys should be racing on, the 60 guys that race all of the GPs should have the best track conditions as possible to race on. (The sand tracks are an exception, they can be left overnight and watered and for the most part the water will soak in.)
This isn't the 1970's anymore, we have the ability to make any track good, with the right effort and knowledge, hard pack ruts are horrible, cupped out lips are dangerous, hard pack blue groove is dangerous when wet, and it's horrible for TV and fans when dry (and before you bitch at me for not thinking hard pack is moto, I grew up racing Carlsbad Raceway blue groove, I have the road rash scars to prove it).
I think it's funny that some of you guys complain that the US tracks have perfect traction and are manicured to perfection and full of supercross jumps (I just saw a step on step off section on the last GP Track, I didn't see one of those on any National track this year) When the day starts at a National, the tracks are perfect, they should be, but by the end of practice and 160 professional rider beating on them for 2 sets of practices and 2 LCQs they are as rough as any track, add another 68 laps by 40 riders and they are nasty by the end of the day. Fixing the lips on jumps needs to be done between motos. It's negligent to leave kickers on jumps that cause the "attraction" to get hurt and hurt badly. No good riders, no fans will show up.
Back to Dungey, I know in 2013 he was still training and riding outdoors non stop after the last National to get ready for the des Nations, it was a struggle, he looked burnt out at the beginning of September and had another month to go. He wanted the track as beat up, dry, and roached out as possible to try and get it close to what the race track would be like, we had trouble coming close to replicating the actual conditions. (To get hard pack chop, he should have just went to the old school riding areas of Palm Avenue or Central, but they have been under houses for 20 years.)
While he was still riding outdoors for another 6 weeks, including the race week and traveling to Europe, his competition was taking a needed three-four week break away from the bike getting recharged and then on the Supercross tracks getting ready for Monster Cup. And like it or not the Monster Million Dollars is a bigger draw then paying out of pocket to race for your country over and over again, and you suck cause you only win 50% of the time. (Ricky Carmichael only won 50% of the des Nations he competed in too)
Then the next complaint is he should take his vacation then still race Glen Helen and the MXdN, but if he showed up to Glen Helen to race the USGP after taking off three-four weeks that he may feel he needs to recover from 7 years of constant racing and training, he wouldn't be 100%, and then if he got beat he would get criticized for being slow. So take the vacation and let Youthstream scramble for another ticket attraction.
The AMA Riders are paid to race and represent their US Based teams and sponsors, their focus is on the 17 Supercross races, 12 Nationals and the Monster Cup with Live TV in US Households racing against 20 something factory/factory backed racers in every one of those races. ( we know the GP guys race the Dutch or Belgian or British or French Nationals, but the competition level is not the same as a GP weekend) That is what they are contracted to do. Which has been the same since the mid 90s when the circuit stabilized and the USGP's went away. Supercross Prep starts on or before October 1st depending on if you are changing teams, they train up and through Christmas/New Years to A1. From January-April its Supercross All Day everyday, April-May Supercross and Outdoors testing. May-August is Motocross. September is now all about rest and recovery. And these guys need that recovery, a 10 year career is too short if the sport is going to build main stream awareness. Just when the main stream media knows who you are, you are retired.
There hasn't been any real national glory in winning a USGP since the 1986 Carlsbad USGP. Every other USGP race has been a shell of what a USGP was in the 1970s and 80s, even the Glen Helen GP's in 90,91,92 with Johnson, Ward, Bradshaw, Bayle were not well attended. The 1990's Unadilla 250 GP and the Budds Creek GPs attendance were never close to the National's attendance. And most US fans wouldn't even know or care about the results of the USGPs that have been held since Marty Moates won in 1980. Once Marty won it slowly faded away to focus completely on the US Series, where the US Fans want to watch the best riders that compete in the US. I think if RV would have made more than 4 starts the GP guys would have garnered more respect and it would have built into something more, but at this point it's not even a US versus the foreign riders that come to race in the AMA. I would say Reed, Roczen and Musquin are just as popular in the states as the American born racers. If Tony Cairoli came to race here or Herlings, they would be respected and we would think they were fast, just like we thought Tortelli and Albertyn were fast, and their fan base would grow exponentially over here.
Okay I've typed way too much and probably pissed off a bunch of Brits and GP fanboys
"I worked really hard and I did EVERYTHING that I was hired to do. I'm lookng forward to some time off. As for racing in Europe? I watched RV and some of those tracks look kinda tired. So, I'm gonna go cash my checks, take some time off and get to know what being married is actually like. I might even eat some regular food. Hey, I'll see you in October."
Pit Row
Who else in US Moto has raced the 450 SX/MX classes and won as many races and titles as Ryan over these last 4 years?
Who's done MORE MXoNs?
How T F does he owe ANYBODY ANYTHING?
You know what?
We owe him.
We owe him a "Thank You!"
For doing it right.
(PICTURE GUY B AS THE REF)
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Good point!
If you could please just stop the Manny bum licking session for a second ,
Maybe you will be a good chap and point out were I have said anything about , saying its "not fair " or " I want to see Dungey ride at the MXDN " ,
After reading that section of the interview that the OP posted , it seems to me that Dungey is getting his excuses in early as to why he will not ride the GP,s . I think his comments about its because the tracks are poor , is a cop out .
His comments about what happened to RV are pretty strange to me , its almost as if is saying " well , if Ryan couldn,t do it , what chance do I have "
As we seem to have turned it around to the MXDN now , I do think its poor that the National Champion has decided that he just doesn,t want to represent his country , but if that's what he wants , then so be it , believe me I couldn,t give a toss one way or the other .
Post a reply to: Dungey on GP tracks/Competition