Dungey on GP tracks/Competition

GrapeApe
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8/25/2015 1:57pm
GrapeApe wrote:
In 10 years time I could show you this post and you probably wouldn't believe what a whiny little bitch you used to be ....
In 10 years time I could show you this post and you probably wouldn't believe what a whiny little bitch you used to be . . .
philG wrote:
Oh i would , im still pissed at the stuff that happened in the 80's.

Laughing
8/25/2015 2:10pm
Park Boys wrote:
First the 125/250/MX2 1988 JMB, 1992 Albertyn 96 Seb, 97,98,99 Chiodi 2000 Langston, 01 Dobb, 04 BT101, 06 CP377, 08 Tyla, 09,10 MM and Finally Roczen...
First the 125/250/MX2
1988 JMB, 1992 Albertyn 96 Seb, 97,98,99 Chiodi 2000 Langston, 01 Dobb, 04 BT101, 06 CP377, 08 Tyla, 09,10 MM and Finally Roczen in 11. On the 250/450/MX1 1989, JMB 1993,94 Albee 1998 Seb

The guy that crossed the other way does hold a 25% MX1 win ratio in his first try across the pond in races completed, not great but certainly not bad.

Any other questions?
Of course I have other questions , you would be disappointed if I didn,t wouldn,t you ,

You listed 18 years yet only 11 riders , if I had wanted to I could have also made a list of 18 years in which an AMA national champ went to the GP series , so what exactly are you trying to prove with that one ?

You also stated this , "Most were very good at the nationals but SX, no."

If that's the case how come those riders you listed have 10 SX titles between them , yet only have 6 outdoor titles , how can that be so ?


Flatliner
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8/25/2015 2:18pm
I can't believe Dungey said that about the tracks and competition in the GPs.

He has lost my respect now.
He's not wrong about the condition of "some" of the tracks that's for sure. Anyone can see that.

8/25/2015 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 2:21pm
JBlain619 wrote:
Has nothing to do with stones. Has everything to do with racing essentially week in and week out since the first weekend in January. It's not...
Has nothing to do with stones. Has everything to do with racing essentially week in and week out since the first weekend in January.

It's not about needing 4 months to prepare for SX either. How about some time to recover and heal from injuries?!?

In the US we run 2 different series to 1 of the GP's. What it takes you essentially a year to complete, it takes 4 months here.

Goddamn, some of you just need to enjoy the differences in the racing from the GP's and the Nationals and quit making everything a dick measuring contest.



philG wrote:
Everyone in Europe runs 2 series too, some 3 , nobody has weeks off, they all have thier own Nationals to ride in the off weekends...
Everyone in Europe runs 2 series too, some 3 , nobody has weeks off, they all have thier own Nationals to ride in the off weekends ,some guys ride in 2 national series, not much spare time here either.

So you are quite happy that there is a race on in your MX industries back yard , but most folk are crying off.

I want to see the best guys race the best guys, is that too much to ask?



I've not seen the lineup of ama racers who are attending but if it's thin on the ground then it's just ...... Well.
But whatever it's not their series so I can understand it if they want a holiday and to not race, however, if I was a pro racer I'd wanna whip foreigners ass coming to my back yard.

Damn right there wouldn't be an American race in Europe without the GP boys rocking up

The Shop

Park Boys
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8/25/2015 2:33pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 2:34pm
Park Boys wrote:
First the 125/250/MX2 1988 JMB, 1992 Albertyn 96 Seb, 97,98,99 Chiodi 2000 Langston, 01 Dobb, 04 BT101, 06 CP377, 08 Tyla, 09,10 MM and Finally Roczen...
First the 125/250/MX2
1988 JMB, 1992 Albertyn 96 Seb, 97,98,99 Chiodi 2000 Langston, 01 Dobb, 04 BT101, 06 CP377, 08 Tyla, 09,10 MM and Finally Roczen in 11. On the 250/450/MX1 1989, JMB 1993,94 Albee 1998 Seb

The guy that crossed the other way does hold a 25% MX1 win ratio in his first try across the pond in races completed, not great but certainly not bad.

Any other questions?
Of course I have other questions , you would be disappointed if I didn,t wouldn,t you , You listed 18 years yet only 11 riders...
Of course I have other questions , you would be disappointed if I didn,t wouldn,t you ,

You listed 18 years yet only 11 riders , if I had wanted to I could have also made a list of 18 years in which an AMA national champ went to the GP series , so what exactly are you trying to prove with that one ?

You also stated this , "Most were very good at the nationals but SX, no."

If that's the case how come those riders you listed have 10 SX titles between them , yet only have 6 outdoor titles , how can that be so ?


You know a rider can win ore than one title right? Those 18 titles were won by those 11 riders. I merely just listed them.

I should have said since JMB as they consider that a flood gate opener so to speak.

It would be a harder argument to make as it did not happen a lot and in recent years until RV's decision you went to the GP's as a last resort.

In Supercross you see there is quite a difference in the 125/250 bikes and 250/450. You see 10 titles, the correct answer is 1. Regional titles are not considered a national championship which just proved my point 1 AMA SX titles vs 6 outdoor and 5 of those where on bigger displacement(Bigger accomplishment imo)
8/25/2015 2:45pm
Park Boys wrote:
You know a rider can win ore than one title right? Those 18 titles were won by those 11 riders. I merely just listed them. I...
You know a rider can win ore than one title right? Those 18 titles were won by those 11 riders. I merely just listed them.

I should have said since JMB as they consider that a flood gate opener so to speak.

It would be a harder argument to make as it did not happen a lot and in recent years until RV's decision you went to the GP's as a last resort.

In Supercross you see there is quite a difference in the 125/250 bikes and 250/450. You see 10 titles, the correct answer is 1. Regional titles are not considered a national championship which just proved my point 1 AMA SX titles vs 6 outdoor and 5 of those where on bigger displacement(Bigger accomplishment imo)
Oh , C,mon now Park Boys , please !

Whats all this regional / small bike titles don't count bollocks now ? , You are just moving the goals posts to suit yourself .

If the lower classes don't count , then lets have another count up on all those 18 GP title winners you listed , and see what we get ,

well I make that a big fat zero ,
MotoMalyDad
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8/25/2015 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 2:52pm
So 7 pages in. Who is the best riders AMA or GP's ? No one has answered that . You know why, because it is all opinion based. Unless there is a series run by the top 20 AMA and top 20 GP guys on a variety of tracks in the USA and Europe it is all speculation .. Like comparing 2 riders in different eras .
Park Boys
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8/25/2015 3:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 3:02pm
Oh , C,mon now Park Boys , please ! Whats all this regional / small bike titles don't count bollocks now ? , You are just...
Oh , C,mon now Park Boys , please !

Whats all this regional / small bike titles don't count bollocks now ? , You are just moving the goals posts to suit yourself .

If the lower classes don't count , then lets have another count up on all those 18 GP title winners you listed , and see what we get ,

well I make that a big fat zero ,
I'm sorry that in the eyes of the record book Regional titles don't count as National titles.It could have something to do with the fact that there is another group of guys on the same size bikes racing on different sides of the country. Does that mean the talent gets split up? Why yes I believe it does. Should Webb and Musquin have received national Supercross titles even though they never raced each other this year? Should the 450 SX title now count for 2 because there is twice as many racers and rounds?
8/25/2015 3:11pm
Park Boys wrote:
I'm sorry that in the eyes of the record book Regional titles don't count as National titles.It could have something to do with the fact that...
I'm sorry that in the eyes of the record book Regional titles don't count as National titles.It could have something to do with the fact that there is another group of guys on the same size bikes racing on different sides of the country. Does that mean the talent gets split up? Why yes I believe it does. Should Webb and Musquin have received national Supercross titles even though they never raced each other this year? Should the 450 SX title now count for 2 because there is twice as many racers and rounds?
Its OK Parkie old chap , I get it , you can just keep making stuff up to suit , that's no problem ,

Its past midnight here now , so gonna bid you a good evening ........... until next time !
The Rock
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8/25/2015 3:44pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 3:44pm
So 7 pages in. Who is the best riders AMA or GP's ? No one has answered that . You know why, because it is all...
So 7 pages in. Who is the best riders AMA or GP's ? No one has answered that . You know why, because it is all opinion based. Unless there is a series run by the top 20 AMA and top 20 GP guys on a variety of tracks in the USA and Europe it is all speculation .. Like comparing 2 riders in different eras .
Not to mention this topic has already been discussed, debated, beaten to death ad nauseum.

Like your post a lot.
PressPassP
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8/25/2015 3:56pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 4:16pm
Park Boys wrote:
Just to fan some flames here RD just beat Simpson by over 95 seconds in Moto 2 and over 40 seconds in Moto 1. What has...
Just to fan some flames here RD just beat Simpson by over 95 seconds in Moto 2 and over 40 seconds in Moto 1. What has Simpson been losing to Febvre lately?

Dungey has already Won the MxDN a few times and when it was in the USA on a track he knew instead of the other way around he crushed the field, my boy AC222 included. RD has nothing to prove, He has SX titles, MX titles, MxDN team wins and overall wins at the MxDN. Not to many guys in the history of the sport have done that.

As far as a lot of the Americans thinking the way the do, It has a lot to do with this

1988,92,96,97,98,99,00,01,04,06,08,09,10 & 11 MX2 champs came here as well as 1989,93,94,98 MX1 Champs.

Of all those world champions only 1 so far has truly excelled in a big bike indoors and out, the first one JMB. Most were very good at the nationals but SX, no.

The Best talents in the GP's have all come over in the past 15 years except for AC222 and JH84.

Langston was the next big thing he came here, Dobb wins the title after Langston leaves was never a title threat in the states(He did win 1 national though), BT instantly was a threat to Everts then came to the AMA, the only guy to beat AC222 for a title while AC was healthy the whole year came to the AMA, then the next guy Tyla was beating AC at the time of his injuries then he jumps ship. GP21 was looking like he was gonna do some damage then MM25 spanked him then comes to the AMA and finally the greatest talent since JMB and one of the greatest talents of all time Roczen makes JH his bitch and comes to the AMA. Then the only guy to keep JH in his sights last year jumps ship over to the AMA. Those are just champions that came here sans Tonus. Tommy tried it here, failed just like Max did. I am excited about who is coming next, If recent history has taught us anything its that over half of the MX2 world champions will come stateside.

I have said it plenty of times that part of what makes the AMA series harder IMO at least on paper before injuries comes into play is that we always have world champions over here as well as are guys. The joke a few years ago is that we had more world champions racing here than the GP's did.

Flame on, in this never ending argument...
That's all very good but it only compares those going one way,the only real AMA rider of real note going the other way (aside from Brown who finished 3rd twice in the 125's) and that didn't go anywhere near how anyone thought,actually American fans were more convinced that he'd win rather than Euros,regarded as the best anywhere in the world

Villopoto was a truly dominant champion in his prime at 25,vastly experienced,like Dungey,who he continually dominated,he would have won more races over here for sure but his general performances could be the measure of the Euros in their GP series,same as Dungey's rides at recent MXdN,

You can make all differrent assumptions of those going to the US,I noticed you're counting the same champion more than one as far as titles too,there are many arguments to consider though,MM25 did beat Roczen,as Roczen beat Herlings but it's all a progression,IMO Musquin would've been a better rider if he's stayed here,he had a lot of injuries and I don't think he's progressed too much,put all 3 back in MX2 and I still think Herlings would beat Roczen and in turn Musquin

As bench racing goes in this never ending argument:

No one ever came from the premier MX1 class,arguably the last genuine top class guy was Tortelli,all others were from the feeder class

Langston only raced 125's and never the bigger classes,Pichon never won his title when Everts was there (Reed never raced him either) he won a 250 title when Everts,Smets and Bervoerts were all in the bigger class,,Tommy went but got injured,Max was a teenager who went as an amateur,now moved on and JMB never raced the "big boy" class over here where Thorpe,Geboers etc were,the debates could go on,I'm not bagging on great riders here just debating the flip-side Wink

The best talents in the GP over the last 15 years havn't all gone to the US,Everts,Beirer,Bervoerts,Smets,Bolley,Coppins,Ramon,Philipaerts,Cairoli,Desalle,Nagl,Febvre are the bigger premier class talents in those recent years,guys like Herlings,Paulin,among those from the 250 class where there are many coming through but migration has slowed dramatically lately,there's some serious talent coming through too

Anyhow the argument on the 2 series still hits a brick wall when Dungey claims it's tougher there when there's a lack of AMA riders in the GP's to guage exactly how tough the GP's are-now RV's out

At the end of the day it's impossible to fully gauge the other series






DonM
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Fantasy
8/25/2015 4:09pm
JBlain619 wrote:
Has nothing to do with stones. Has everything to do with racing essentially week in and week out since the first weekend in January. It's not...
Has nothing to do with stones. Has everything to do with racing essentially week in and week out since the first weekend in January.

It's not about needing 4 months to prepare for SX either. How about some time to recover and heal from injuries?!?

In the US we run 2 different series to 1 of the GP's. What it takes you essentially a year to complete, it takes 4 months here.

Goddamn, some of you just need to enjoy the differences in the racing from the GP's and the Nationals and quit making everything a dick measuring contest.



philG wrote:
Everyone in Europe runs 2 series too, some 3 , nobody has weeks off, they all have thier own Nationals to ride in the off weekends...
Everyone in Europe runs 2 series too, some 3 , nobody has weeks off, they all have thier own Nationals to ride in the off weekends ,some guys ride in 2 national series, not much spare time here either.

So you are quite happy that there is a race on in your MX industries back yard , but most folk are crying off.

I want to see the best guys race the best guys, is that too much to ask?



I've not seen the lineup of ama racers who are attending but if it's thin on the ground then it's just ...... Well. But whatever it's...
I've not seen the lineup of ama racers who are attending but if it's thin on the ground then it's just ...... Well.
But whatever it's not their series so I can understand it if they want a holiday and to not race, however, if I was a pro racer I'd wanna whip foreigners ass coming to my back yard.

Damn right there wouldn't be an American race in Europe without the GP boys rocking up
Of course if there were an AMA race in Europe many GP riders would show up....it's amazing what racing for money will do....Smile Sorry I couldn't help it...
Just an FYI I do agree with Dungey on the tracks they have been shit this year for the most part...but not so much on the competition...but I do love that the real butt hurt trolls pull out his Lommel moto finishes card as a comparison...
There are some real trolls on both sides in this thread...please don't feed the trolls!
PastranaWho
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8/25/2015 5:08pm
I think the variety of tracks in the GP is great, better than having the same type of tracks/soil they have here. And saying the competition is tougher here I call bullshit on that one. If RV was a 4th place guy in the GPs i would have to say the dunge would be lucky to crack the top 5.
PastranaWho
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8/25/2015 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 5:18pm
Flip109 wrote:
The tracks being crappy I agree. Majority of them looked horrible. As far as the competition not being the same LOL! RV smoked his ass most...
The tracks being crappy I agree. Majority of them looked horrible. As far as the competition not being the same LOL! RV smoked his ass most the time and went over there and got his ass handed to him more than once. Really
surprised that came out of his mouth.
X100 I watch the GPs on stream and never miss a race, i would say 3 or 4 tracks did look terrible.
KirkChandler
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8/25/2015 5:29pm
First and foremost I'm a huge fan of the Motocross des Nations and the GPs, and have been to every California USGP since 1982. But the pressure put on Team USA to win, makes racing just not a fun thing for the top riders to deal with. Team USA is expected to win, the AMA Champ is expected to win. It's why Stanton/Bradshaw/Keidrowski pulled out in 92. It's why MC raced it only twice in his career. If you win, you were supposed to. If you lose, it's cause you suck.

The criticism of Dungey not competing in both the USGP and MXDN is ridiculous, the guy has raced 6 des Nations in a row for Team USA. Winning 3, losing 3. His results in the three wins 2009 3-1, 2010 1-1, and 2011 3-2. In the three loses: 2012 7-9, 2013 6-7, and 2014 2-11. He must have forgot how to race between 2011 and 2012 or the GP guys really stepped it up or maybe the schedule change and being off of racing for over a month between the last National and the des Nations plays a factor,

Or maybe the tracks are a factor. There is nothing like Lommel in the US, and to be honest none of our National tracks get hard pack because our track crews know how to prep and build a good professional race track. You don't let racers that are 10-20 seconds a lap cut lines into a track and then let those lines bake in the afternoon sun, then flood it with water that sits on top. The hard ruts and lines that are developed by slower riders makes the tracks very different than what the GP guys should be racing on, the 60 guys that race all of the GPs should have the best track conditions as possible to race on. (The sand tracks are an exception, they can be left overnight and watered and for the most part the water will soak in.)

This isn't the 1970's anymore, we have the ability to make any track good, with the right effort and knowledge, hard pack ruts are horrible, cupped out lips are dangerous, hard pack blue groove is dangerous when wet, and it's horrible for TV and fans when dry (and before you bitch at me for not thinking hard pack is moto, I grew up racing Carlsbad Raceway blue groove, I have the road rash scars to prove it).

I think it's funny that some of you guys complain that the US tracks have perfect traction and are manicured to perfection and full of supercross jumps (I just saw a step on step off section on the last GP Track, I didn't see one of those on any National track this year) When the day starts at a National, the tracks are perfect, they should be, but by the end of practice and 160 professional rider beating on them for 2 sets of practices and 2 LCQs they are as rough as any track, add another 68 laps by 40 riders and they are nasty by the end of the day. Fixing the lips on jumps needs to be done between motos. It's negligent to leave kickers on jumps that cause the "attraction" to get hurt and hurt badly. No good riders, no fans will show up.


Back to Dungey, I know in 2013 he was still training and riding outdoors non stop after the last National to get ready for the des Nations, it was a struggle, he looked burnt out at the beginning of September and had another month to go. He wanted the track as beat up, dry, and roached out as possible to try and get it close to what the race track would be like, we had trouble coming close to replicating the actual conditions. (To get hard pack chop, he should have just went to the old school riding areas of Palm Avenue or Central, but they have been under houses for 20 years.)

While he was still riding outdoors for another 6 weeks, including the race week and traveling to Europe, his competition was taking a needed three-four week break away from the bike getting recharged and then on the Supercross tracks getting ready for Monster Cup. And like it or not the Monster Million Dollars is a bigger draw then paying out of pocket to race for your country over and over again, and you suck cause you only win 50% of the time. (Ricky Carmichael only won 50% of the des Nations he competed in too)

Then the next complaint is he should take his vacation then still race Glen Helen and the MXdN, but if he showed up to Glen Helen to race the USGP after taking off three-four weeks that he may feel he needs to recover from 7 years of constant racing and training, he wouldn't be 100%, and then if he got beat he would get criticized for being slow. So take the vacation and let Youthstream scramble for another ticket attraction.

The AMA Riders are paid to race and represent their US Based teams and sponsors, their focus is on the 17 Supercross races, 12 Nationals and the Monster Cup with Live TV in US Households racing against 20 something factory/factory backed racers in every one of those races. ( we know the GP guys race the Dutch or Belgian or British or French Nationals, but the competition level is not the same as a GP weekend) That is what they are contracted to do. Which has been the same since the mid 90s when the circuit stabilized and the USGP's went away. Supercross Prep starts on or before October 1st depending on if you are changing teams, they train up and through Christmas/New Years to A1. From January-April its Supercross All Day everyday, April-May Supercross and Outdoors testing. May-August is Motocross. September is now all about rest and recovery. And these guys need that recovery, a 10 year career is too short if the sport is going to build main stream awareness. Just when the main stream media knows who you are, you are retired.

There hasn't been any real national glory in winning a USGP since the 1986 Carlsbad USGP. Every other USGP race has been a shell of what a USGP was in the 1970s and 80s, even the Glen Helen GP's in 90,91,92 with Johnson, Ward, Bradshaw, Bayle were not well attended. The 1990's Unadilla 250 GP and the Budds Creek GPs attendance were never close to the National's attendance. And most US fans wouldn't even know or care about the results of the USGPs that have been held since Marty Moates won in 1980. Once Marty won it slowly faded away to focus completely on the US Series, where the US Fans want to watch the best riders that compete in the US. I think if RV would have made more than 4 starts the GP guys would have garnered more respect and it would have built into something more, but at this point it's not even a US versus the foreign riders that come to race in the AMA. I would say Reed, Roczen and Musquin are just as popular in the states as the American born racers. If Tony Cairoli came to race here or Herlings, they would be respected and we would think they were fast, just like we thought Tortelli and Albertyn were fast, and their fan base would grow exponentially over here.

Okay I've typed way too much and probably pissed off a bunch of Brits and GP fanboys
petegrath
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8/25/2015 5:59pm
So I would recommend you do as I did. Don't know why, I normally steer clear of novels on here. Clearly Kirk knows what he's talking about, and his point are inarguable in my opinion. Should be the end of this discussion, but sadly it won't be.
TeamGreen
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8/25/2015 6:09pm
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN...

"I worked really hard and I did EVERYTHING that I was hired to do. I'm lookng forward to some time off. As for racing in Europe? I watched RV and some of those tracks look kinda tired. So, I'm gonna go cash my checks, take some time off and get to know what being married is actually like. I might even eat some regular food. Hey, I'll see you in October."
BB67
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8/25/2015 6:20pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN... "I worked...
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN...

"I worked really hard and I did EVERYTHING that I was hired to do. I'm lookng forward to some time off. As for racing in Europe? I watched RV and some of those tracks look kinda tired. So, I'm gonna go cash my checks, take some time off and get to know what being married is actually like. I might even eat some regular food. Hey, I'll see you in October."
^BOOM^
jeffro503
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8/25/2015 7:33pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN... "I worked...
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN...

"I worked really hard and I did EVERYTHING that I was hired to do. I'm lookng forward to some time off. As for racing in Europe? I watched RV and some of those tracks look kinda tired. So, I'm gonna go cash my checks, take some time off and get to know what being married is actually like. I might even eat some regular food. Hey, I'll see you in October."
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn it , waahh!!
TeamGreen
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8/25/2015 7:37pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN... "I worked...
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN...

"I worked really hard and I did EVERYTHING that I was hired to do. I'm lookng forward to some time off. As for racing in Europe? I watched RV and some of those tracks look kinda tired. So, I'm gonna go cash my checks, take some time off and get to know what being married is actually like. I might even eat some regular food. Hey, I'll see you in October."
jeffro503 wrote:
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn...
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn it , waahh!!
Dungey needs to "be fair" to his life, his wife, his family, his aches-pains...hell...the dude has Earned sometime off!

Who else in US Moto has raced the 450 SX/MX classes and won as many races and titles as Ryan over these last 4 years?

Who's done MORE MXoNs?

How T F does he owe ANYBODY ANYTHING?

You know what?

We owe him.

We owe him a "Thank You!"

For doing it right.
DPR250R
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8/25/2015 7:40pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2015 7:41pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN... "I worked...
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN...

"I worked really hard and I did EVERYTHING that I was hired to do. I'm lookng forward to some time off. As for racing in Europe? I watched RV and some of those tracks look kinda tired. So, I'm gonna go cash my checks, take some time off and get to know what being married is actually like. I might even eat some regular food. Hey, I'll see you in October."
I would understand if he left it at wanting to eat regular food.
watson
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8/25/2015 7:53pm
First and foremost I'm a huge fan of the Motocross des Nations and the GPs, and have been to every California USGP since 1982. But the...
First and foremost I'm a huge fan of the Motocross des Nations and the GPs, and have been to every California USGP since 1982. But the pressure put on Team USA to win, makes racing just not a fun thing for the top riders to deal with. Team USA is expected to win, the AMA Champ is expected to win. It's why Stanton/Bradshaw/Keidrowski pulled out in 92. It's why MC raced it only twice in his career. If you win, you were supposed to. If you lose, it's cause you suck.

The criticism of Dungey not competing in both the USGP and MXDN is ridiculous, the guy has raced 6 des Nations in a row for Team USA. Winning 3, losing 3. His results in the three wins 2009 3-1, 2010 1-1, and 2011 3-2. In the three loses: 2012 7-9, 2013 6-7, and 2014 2-11. He must have forgot how to race between 2011 and 2012 or the GP guys really stepped it up or maybe the schedule change and being off of racing for over a month between the last National and the des Nations plays a factor,

Or maybe the tracks are a factor. There is nothing like Lommel in the US, and to be honest none of our National tracks get hard pack because our track crews know how to prep and build a good professional race track. You don't let racers that are 10-20 seconds a lap cut lines into a track and then let those lines bake in the afternoon sun, then flood it with water that sits on top. The hard ruts and lines that are developed by slower riders makes the tracks very different than what the GP guys should be racing on, the 60 guys that race all of the GPs should have the best track conditions as possible to race on. (The sand tracks are an exception, they can be left overnight and watered and for the most part the water will soak in.)

This isn't the 1970's anymore, we have the ability to make any track good, with the right effort and knowledge, hard pack ruts are horrible, cupped out lips are dangerous, hard pack blue groove is dangerous when wet, and it's horrible for TV and fans when dry (and before you bitch at me for not thinking hard pack is moto, I grew up racing Carlsbad Raceway blue groove, I have the road rash scars to prove it).

I think it's funny that some of you guys complain that the US tracks have perfect traction and are manicured to perfection and full of supercross jumps (I just saw a step on step off section on the last GP Track, I didn't see one of those on any National track this year) When the day starts at a National, the tracks are perfect, they should be, but by the end of practice and 160 professional rider beating on them for 2 sets of practices and 2 LCQs they are as rough as any track, add another 68 laps by 40 riders and they are nasty by the end of the day. Fixing the lips on jumps needs to be done between motos. It's negligent to leave kickers on jumps that cause the "attraction" to get hurt and hurt badly. No good riders, no fans will show up.


Back to Dungey, I know in 2013 he was still training and riding outdoors non stop after the last National to get ready for the des Nations, it was a struggle, he looked burnt out at the beginning of September and had another month to go. He wanted the track as beat up, dry, and roached out as possible to try and get it close to what the race track would be like, we had trouble coming close to replicating the actual conditions. (To get hard pack chop, he should have just went to the old school riding areas of Palm Avenue or Central, but they have been under houses for 20 years.)

While he was still riding outdoors for another 6 weeks, including the race week and traveling to Europe, his competition was taking a needed three-four week break away from the bike getting recharged and then on the Supercross tracks getting ready for Monster Cup. And like it or not the Monster Million Dollars is a bigger draw then paying out of pocket to race for your country over and over again, and you suck cause you only win 50% of the time. (Ricky Carmichael only won 50% of the des Nations he competed in too)

Then the next complaint is he should take his vacation then still race Glen Helen and the MXdN, but if he showed up to Glen Helen to race the USGP after taking off three-four weeks that he may feel he needs to recover from 7 years of constant racing and training, he wouldn't be 100%, and then if he got beat he would get criticized for being slow. So take the vacation and let Youthstream scramble for another ticket attraction.

The AMA Riders are paid to race and represent their US Based teams and sponsors, their focus is on the 17 Supercross races, 12 Nationals and the Monster Cup with Live TV in US Households racing against 20 something factory/factory backed racers in every one of those races. ( we know the GP guys race the Dutch or Belgian or British or French Nationals, but the competition level is not the same as a GP weekend) That is what they are contracted to do. Which has been the same since the mid 90s when the circuit stabilized and the USGP's went away. Supercross Prep starts on or before October 1st depending on if you are changing teams, they train up and through Christmas/New Years to A1. From January-April its Supercross All Day everyday, April-May Supercross and Outdoors testing. May-August is Motocross. September is now all about rest and recovery. And these guys need that recovery, a 10 year career is too short if the sport is going to build main stream awareness. Just when the main stream media knows who you are, you are retired.

There hasn't been any real national glory in winning a USGP since the 1986 Carlsbad USGP. Every other USGP race has been a shell of what a USGP was in the 1970s and 80s, even the Glen Helen GP's in 90,91,92 with Johnson, Ward, Bradshaw, Bayle were not well attended. The 1990's Unadilla 250 GP and the Budds Creek GPs attendance were never close to the National's attendance. And most US fans wouldn't even know or care about the results of the USGPs that have been held since Marty Moates won in 1980. Once Marty won it slowly faded away to focus completely on the US Series, where the US Fans want to watch the best riders that compete in the US. I think if RV would have made more than 4 starts the GP guys would have garnered more respect and it would have built into something more, but at this point it's not even a US versus the foreign riders that come to race in the AMA. I would say Reed, Roczen and Musquin are just as popular in the states as the American born racers. If Tony Cairoli came to race here or Herlings, they would be respected and we would think they were fast, just like we thought Tortelli and Albertyn were fast, and their fan base would grow exponentially over here.

Okay I've typed way too much and probably pissed off a bunch of Brits and GP fanboys
You need to stop making so much sense, or the most fervent GP fanboys may need to channel their 20+ years of repressed anger elsewhere...
jeffro503
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8/25/2015 8:06pm
@Kirk Chandler......awesome and very well said post! I wasn't sure I wanted to read that , but it was a breath of fresh air. Thanks for typing all that up!
jeffro503
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8/25/2015 8:07pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN... "I worked...
Here's what I see when RD makes his comments about racing in Europe or taking time off and not racing the USGP & MXoN...

"I worked really hard and I did EVERYTHING that I was hired to do. I'm lookng forward to some time off. As for racing in Europe? I watched RV and some of those tracks look kinda tired. So, I'm gonna go cash my checks, take some time off and get to know what being married is actually like. I might even eat some regular food. Hey, I'll see you in October."
jeffro503 wrote:
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn...
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn it , waahh!!
TeamGreen wrote:
Dungey needs to "be fair" to his life, his wife, his family, his aches-pains...hell...the dude has Earned sometime off! Who else in US Moto has raced...
Dungey needs to "be fair" to his life, his wife, his family, his aches-pains...hell...the dude has Earned sometime off!

Who else in US Moto has raced the 450 SX/MX classes and won as many races and titles as Ryan over these last 4 years?

Who's done MORE MXoNs?

How T F does he owe ANYBODY ANYTHING?

You know what?

We owe him.

We owe him a "Thank You!"

For doing it right.
Manny , you are 100% correct as usual. Most would think so too , but a few guys from across the pond won't.
500guy
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8/25/2015 8:09pm
jeffro503 wrote:
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn...
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn it , waahh!!
TeamGreen wrote:
Dungey needs to "be fair" to his life, his wife, his family, his aches-pains...hell...the dude has Earned sometime off! Who else in US Moto has raced...
Dungey needs to "be fair" to his life, his wife, his family, his aches-pains...hell...the dude has Earned sometime off!

Who else in US Moto has raced the 450 SX/MX classes and won as many races and titles as Ryan over these last 4 years?

Who's done MORE MXoNs?

How T F does he owe ANYBODY ANYTHING?

You know what?

We owe him.

We owe him a "Thank You!"

For doing it right.
jeffro503 wrote:
Manny , you are 100% correct as usual. Most would think so too , but a few guys from across the pond won't.
Not good enough, We demand He race a one off race just for our entertainment and if He doesn't win We will badger him non stop.
jeffro503
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8/25/2015 8:42pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Dungey needs to "be fair" to his life, his wife, his family, his aches-pains...hell...the dude has Earned sometime off! Who else in US Moto has raced...
Dungey needs to "be fair" to his life, his wife, his family, his aches-pains...hell...the dude has Earned sometime off!

Who else in US Moto has raced the 450 SX/MX classes and won as many races and titles as Ryan over these last 4 years?

Who's done MORE MXoNs?

How T F does he owe ANYBODY ANYTHING?

You know what?

We owe him.

We owe him a "Thank You!"

For doing it right.
jeffro503 wrote:
Manny , you are 100% correct as usual. Most would think so too , but a few guys from across the pond won't.
500guy wrote:
Not good enough, We demand He race a one off race just for our entertainment and if He doesn't win We will badger him non stop.
That is pretty much it Jay . Shame really. Guys aren't supposed to have a life now days i guess.
rideguy721
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8/25/2015 9:07pm
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BOYS AND GIRLS IIIIIIITTTTTTTTSSSSSSS TIIIIIIMMMME FOR THE MAIN EVENT OF THE EVENING, FIGHTING FOR THE UNDISPUTED VITAL MX CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD... IN THE RED CORNER HOLDING A RECORD OF WE ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD REGARDLESS OF OUR MX DES NATIONS DROUGHT, STANDING IN AT 3500 VITARDS STRONG, THE "PATRIOTIC" UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.... AND IN THE BLUE CORNER STANDING STRONG AT 3499 VITARDS, THE "WE ARE THE BEST BECAUSE WE SMOKED RV" THE REST OF THE WORLD....

(PICTURE GUY B AS THE REF)
OK GENTLEMAN I WANT GOOD CLEAN POSTS, ANYTHING INVALID, NOT PROVEN OR DEEMED SENSELESS WILL BE DELETED, ANY LOW BLOWS TO THE WIVES, GIRLFRIENDS OR MOTHERS WILL RESULT IN A POINT TAKEN AWAY.

ARE YOU READY.... ARE YOU READY... THEN LET'S GET IT ON!
colonel
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La Massana, AD
8/25/2015 11:24pm
Someone should remind Dungey that he finished a full two minutes behind Cairoli ( at the MX of Nations in 2012 at Lommel ). Toni 's best lap time was a 1.54 & Dungey's best was a 2.04 . If Toni pushed harder in the last lap , he would have lapped Dungey.
8/25/2015 11:39pm
First and foremost I'm a huge fan of the Motocross des Nations and the GPs, and have been to every California USGP since 1982. But the...
First and foremost I'm a huge fan of the Motocross des Nations and the GPs, and have been to every California USGP since 1982. But the pressure put on Team USA to win, makes racing just not a fun thing for the top riders to deal with. Team USA is expected to win, the AMA Champ is expected to win. It's why Stanton/Bradshaw/Keidrowski pulled out in 92. It's why MC raced it only twice in his career. If you win, you were supposed to. If you lose, it's cause you suck.

The criticism of Dungey not competing in both the USGP and MXDN is ridiculous, the guy has raced 6 des Nations in a row for Team USA. Winning 3, losing 3. His results in the three wins 2009 3-1, 2010 1-1, and 2011 3-2. In the three loses: 2012 7-9, 2013 6-7, and 2014 2-11. He must have forgot how to race between 2011 and 2012 or the GP guys really stepped it up or maybe the schedule change and being off of racing for over a month between the last National and the des Nations plays a factor,

Or maybe the tracks are a factor. There is nothing like Lommel in the US, and to be honest none of our National tracks get hard pack because our track crews know how to prep and build a good professional race track. You don't let racers that are 10-20 seconds a lap cut lines into a track and then let those lines bake in the afternoon sun, then flood it with water that sits on top. The hard ruts and lines that are developed by slower riders makes the tracks very different than what the GP guys should be racing on, the 60 guys that race all of the GPs should have the best track conditions as possible to race on. (The sand tracks are an exception, they can be left overnight and watered and for the most part the water will soak in.)

This isn't the 1970's anymore, we have the ability to make any track good, with the right effort and knowledge, hard pack ruts are horrible, cupped out lips are dangerous, hard pack blue groove is dangerous when wet, and it's horrible for TV and fans when dry (and before you bitch at me for not thinking hard pack is moto, I grew up racing Carlsbad Raceway blue groove, I have the road rash scars to prove it).

I think it's funny that some of you guys complain that the US tracks have perfect traction and are manicured to perfection and full of supercross jumps (I just saw a step on step off section on the last GP Track, I didn't see one of those on any National track this year) When the day starts at a National, the tracks are perfect, they should be, but by the end of practice and 160 professional rider beating on them for 2 sets of practices and 2 LCQs they are as rough as any track, add another 68 laps by 40 riders and they are nasty by the end of the day. Fixing the lips on jumps needs to be done between motos. It's negligent to leave kickers on jumps that cause the "attraction" to get hurt and hurt badly. No good riders, no fans will show up.


Back to Dungey, I know in 2013 he was still training and riding outdoors non stop after the last National to get ready for the des Nations, it was a struggle, he looked burnt out at the beginning of September and had another month to go. He wanted the track as beat up, dry, and roached out as possible to try and get it close to what the race track would be like, we had trouble coming close to replicating the actual conditions. (To get hard pack chop, he should have just went to the old school riding areas of Palm Avenue or Central, but they have been under houses for 20 years.)

While he was still riding outdoors for another 6 weeks, including the race week and traveling to Europe, his competition was taking a needed three-four week break away from the bike getting recharged and then on the Supercross tracks getting ready for Monster Cup. And like it or not the Monster Million Dollars is a bigger draw then paying out of pocket to race for your country over and over again, and you suck cause you only win 50% of the time. (Ricky Carmichael only won 50% of the des Nations he competed in too)

Then the next complaint is he should take his vacation then still race Glen Helen and the MXdN, but if he showed up to Glen Helen to race the USGP after taking off three-four weeks that he may feel he needs to recover from 7 years of constant racing and training, he wouldn't be 100%, and then if he got beat he would get criticized for being slow. So take the vacation and let Youthstream scramble for another ticket attraction.

The AMA Riders are paid to race and represent their US Based teams and sponsors, their focus is on the 17 Supercross races, 12 Nationals and the Monster Cup with Live TV in US Households racing against 20 something factory/factory backed racers in every one of those races. ( we know the GP guys race the Dutch or Belgian or British or French Nationals, but the competition level is not the same as a GP weekend) That is what they are contracted to do. Which has been the same since the mid 90s when the circuit stabilized and the USGP's went away. Supercross Prep starts on or before October 1st depending on if you are changing teams, they train up and through Christmas/New Years to A1. From January-April its Supercross All Day everyday, April-May Supercross and Outdoors testing. May-August is Motocross. September is now all about rest and recovery. And these guys need that recovery, a 10 year career is too short if the sport is going to build main stream awareness. Just when the main stream media knows who you are, you are retired.

There hasn't been any real national glory in winning a USGP since the 1986 Carlsbad USGP. Every other USGP race has been a shell of what a USGP was in the 1970s and 80s, even the Glen Helen GP's in 90,91,92 with Johnson, Ward, Bradshaw, Bayle were not well attended. The 1990's Unadilla 250 GP and the Budds Creek GPs attendance were never close to the National's attendance. And most US fans wouldn't even know or care about the results of the USGPs that have been held since Marty Moates won in 1980. Once Marty won it slowly faded away to focus completely on the US Series, where the US Fans want to watch the best riders that compete in the US. I think if RV would have made more than 4 starts the GP guys would have garnered more respect and it would have built into something more, but at this point it's not even a US versus the foreign riders that come to race in the AMA. I would say Reed, Roczen and Musquin are just as popular in the states as the American born racers. If Tony Cairoli came to race here or Herlings, they would be respected and we would think they were fast, just like we thought Tortelli and Albertyn were fast, and their fan base would grow exponentially over here.

Okay I've typed way too much and probably pissed off a bunch of Brits and GP fanboys
maybe the schedule change and being off of racing for over a month between the last National and the des Nations plays a factor,

Good point!
8/25/2015 11:54pm
jeffro503 wrote:
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn...
But Manny , PhilG and Jose quevro say it's not fair " to them ". Waaahhh! They want to see Dungey ride , right now damn it , waahh!!
Buenos Dias Jerkfro ,

If you could please just stop the Manny bum licking session for a second ,

Maybe you will be a good chap and point out were I have said anything about , saying its "not fair " or " I want to see Dungey ride at the MXDN " ,

After reading that section of the interview that the OP posted , it seems to me that Dungey is getting his excuses in early as to why he will not ride the GP,s . I think his comments about its because the tracks are poor , is a cop out .

His comments about what happened to RV are pretty strange to me , its almost as if is saying " well , if Ryan couldn,t do it , what chance do I have "

As we seem to have turned it around to the MXDN now , I do think its poor that the National Champion has decided that he just doesn,t want to represent his country , but if that's what he wants , then so be it , believe me I couldn,t give a toss one way or the other .


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