Chase Format for SX

TXDirt wrote:

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.

TXDirt wrote:

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.

TXDirt wrote:

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.

RCB33 wrote:

I love the idea, should be tested with the 250's first though.

zookrider62! wrote:

problem with giving points for qualifiers is that no one wants to see the guy that won the main event, not be the winner of the...

problem with giving points for qualifiers is that no one wants to see the guy that won the main event, not be the winner of the race. If someone gets 2nd in the main, but qualified first, compared to the main event winner who qualified 5th, who is the real winner? they guy who won the main, or the guy who left that night with the most points?

motoxxx599 wrote:

Tim Ferry

Zracer wrote:

JMB

zookrider62! wrote:

problem with giving points for qualifiers is that no one wants to see the guy that won the main event, not be the winner of the...

problem with giving points for qualifiers is that no one wants to see the guy that won the main event, not be the winner of the race. If someone gets 2nd in the main, but qualified first, compared to the main event winner who qualified 5th, who is the real winner? they guy who won the main, or the guy who left that night with the most points?

motoxxx599 wrote:

Tim Ferry

Zracer wrote:

JMB

crusty_xx wrote:

Pauls jonass could be the next guy to win a title without a single overall (so far he doesn't even have a moto win I believe)

TXDirt wrote:

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.

Park Boys wrote:

Making it so the stars of the sport have to consistently pass slower riders every single race makes it far far more dangerous. It's cool to...

Making it so the stars of the sport have to consistently pass slower riders every single race makes it far far more dangerous. It's cool to see every once in awhile but weekly it would get dangerous especially on a small narrow SX track.

Park Boys wrote:

Making it so the stars of the sport have to consistently pass slower riders every single race makes it far far more dangerous. It's cool to...

Making it so the stars of the sport have to consistently pass slower riders every single race makes it far far more dangerous. It's cool to see every once in awhile but weekly it would get dangerous especially on a small narrow SX track.

TXDirt wrote:

SX needs to be boring for safety reasons?

Agree to disagree.

Park Boys wrote:

SX is not boring, guys need to step up or not get hurt. It's not Dungeys fault he kicked ass and no need to punish the...

SX is not boring, guys need to step up or not get hurt. It's not Dungeys fault he kicked ass and no need to punish the bad ass guys. The problem last year started when Roczen got hurt in Oakland and then Trey. Injuries will always be the biggest thing that contributes to your so called boring races. Nothing will fix that.

zookrider62! wrote:

problem with giving points for qualifiers is that no one wants to see the guy that won the main event, not be the winner of the...

problem with giving points for qualifiers is that no one wants to see the guy that won the main event, not be the winner of the race. If someone gets 2nd in the main, but qualified first, compared to the main event winner who qualified 5th, who is the real winner? they guy who won the main, or the guy who left that night with the most points?

TXDirt wrote:

Also, just to note, you give out enough points in the qualifier to make it meaningful but no more then that. It's very important to pay...

Also, just to note, you give out enough points in the qualifier to make it meaningful but no more then that. It's very important to pay points in the qualifiers if you are going to invert the gate picks. It's the only way this works....

As we have seen, "every point counts".

I don't think it would take much more then...

3 points for first place qualifier
2 points for second
1 point for remaining people who qualifier for the main

That's enough to ensure there is no sandbagging...

You just need some incentive...

It's almost too easy...

TXDirt wrote:

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.

Berm wrote:

Assuming you keep the same heat/semi qualifying, So 3rd-9th get 1 point each in a qualifier, but there wouldn't be incentive to sandbag if you're running...

Assuming you keep the same heat/semi qualifying, So 3rd-9th get 1 point each in a qualifier, but there wouldn't be incentive to sandbag if you're running 3rd? How does that work? You sandbag if you're in 3rd place and run the semi. Make sure you get top 5 in the semi puts you all the way back to 9th (or 8th if you wanted to be safe I suppose and get 4th in semi), and gain 10-12 positions on the gate? Even if you didn't want to sandbag and run the semi, you could sandbag in the semi (the guy leading the semi would move forward an additional 8 gate picks simply by getting 5th instead of 1st) and would get the same number of points.

In a sport where the start is incredibly critical, getting to pick a gate 10-12 before some of the fastest qualifiers of the night seems like a huge benefit and worth sandbagging for the guy who is only just slightly slower than the fastest.

So, yes, at least 2 positions have an incentive to sandbag (the guys running either 3rd in heat or 1st in semi if you don't want to run heat and semi).

--------

If you want to have inverted starts, you have to pay differential points on position. Then, the simplest idea is to just have 2 main events with inverted start for second main and regular points paying (like 2 motos outdoors).

TXDirt wrote:

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...

I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.

Crush wrote:

Excuse the ridiculously long post, BUT let's just look at the points situations shall we... Year & SX Title won by... 2015 - 85 points 2014...

Excuse the ridiculously long post, BUT let's just look at the points situations shall we...

Year & SX Title won by...
2015 - 85 points
2014 - 64 points
2013 - 43 points
2012 - 57 points
2011 - 4 points
2010 - 70 points
2009 - 4 points
2008 - 13 points
2007 - 51 points
2006 - 2 points
2005 - 25 points
2004 - 34 points (Should have been 59 - FuelGate)
2003 - 7 points
2002 - 35 points
2001 - 64 points
2000 - 35 points
1999 - 83 points
1998 - 51 points
1997 - 15 points
1996 - 132 points (Side note, WTF! This is why MC will always be the King)
1995 - 50 points
1994 - 48 points
1993 - 57 points
1992 - 3 points
1991 - 72 points
1990 - 7 points
1989 - 57 points
1988 - 43 points
1987 - 34 points
1986 - 52 points

So since the current points system began, (I'm pretty sure?) in 30 years, only 8 times has it "TECHNICALLY" come down to the last race... Of those 5 you could say were realistic that it might change at the last race. Only ONE actually did!

10 were won with a race to go...

12 (13) were won 2 or more races out.

3 would be by more than 3 races if not for RV's 2012 knee injury.

Seriously. It's stale.

I'm not saying it's "the points system" but it doesn't help anything.

We can all agree a tighter points title/race will create more interest because the guys will have something to go for instead of riding it out/waiting for outdoors blah blah. Injuries etc will/do happen, but it's basically been 20 years of series runaways.

How does that sell tickets? I know core fans blah blah blah. Well, again, to look at it in marketing terms, you need to do something to create interest to sell to new markets, because as big as it is, is as big as it will be without expanding into those.

Nascar is still nascar. No one doesn't think Jimmy hasn't been the best driver. No one thinks Bowers wasn't the best arenacross guy–but it has produced excitement and interest.

But hey, lets just cross our fingers for one of those hail-mary-next-years...

Crush wrote:

Clearly I said it's stale and the points system doesn't help a tight points title chase, new marketing opportunities, or anything associated with growth of the...

Clearly I said it's stale and the points system doesn't help a tight points title chase, new marketing opportunities, or anything associated with growth of the sport.

Top boy? I've recounted 30 years of the series... What is your point? Chad actually doesn't help my argument, but he's pretty much an anomaly.

Mighty ducks movie–how's about some excitement, not a fucking runaway which happens basically 75% of the time....

Last year–Kenny has an ankle injury, Eli has crashed out, if James was racing, Chad got his shit together... well what if they got a shot at running Dungey down over the last 7 and it means those 7 races are fucking crazy, massive crowds, SportsCentre highlight reels and something to talk about! Points for heat wins or double headers, whatever... it forces the leader into a flurry through the last main because he had to make one last pass to overcome the change, we all go nuts!!!

Wouldn't that be exciting? Wouldn't that be a bit more fucking interesting than Dungey literally cruising from round 10? Remember, just because it's wrapped up 3 races early doesn't mean it hasn't been about signed and sealed since half way. Dungey was literally cruising last year by Atlanta. CRUISING.

You guys who are so against it for some sanctimonious reason act like every year was great. Or if they try something the sport is forever broken and they can't go back. SX has literally HEAPS of boring races especially outside the non-core Vitard. More than the majority and it's market is economically tapped out. We all want more money for the riders, better conditions, better this, better that. But there is no new money coming in and a big reason is because the intrinsic excitement of the sport (RIDING) is limited to those who do. Well if Joe Bloggs sees some crazy shit happening they might just pay attention, and sponsors too.

It's about as short-sighted as sky-rocketing bike prices to a dwindling consumer market being forced into less and less riding areas due to noise conce... oh wait.