Chase Format for SX

8/12/2015 8:44am
Premix wrote:
Pulp was discussing this, thoughts on this? Personally think it would be a good way to keep things a little more interesting towards the end of...
Pulp was discussing this, thoughts on this? Personally think it would be a good way to keep things a little more interesting towards the end of the season for the 450's. I don't think it would be necessary for the lites.
Great idea, take the guy who has the best and most consistent finishes and then punish him with a stupid format where a guy without the most wins and/or consistent finishes can win the title.

end sarcasm

It's a dumb idea, people need to let it go.
hvaughn88
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8/12/2015 8:50am
Premix wrote:
Pulp was discussing this, thoughts on this? Personally think it would be a good way to keep things a little more interesting towards the end of...
Pulp was discussing this, thoughts on this? Personally think it would be a good way to keep things a little more interesting towards the end of the season for the 450's. I don't think it would be necessary for the lites.
Great idea, take the guy who has the best and most consistent finishes and then punish him with a stupid format where a guy without the...
Great idea, take the guy who has the best and most consistent finishes and then punish him with a stupid format where a guy without the most wins and/or consistent finishes can win the title.

end sarcasm

It's a dumb idea, people need to let it go.
It depends on the perspective you're coming from. As a racer, of course it's a dumb idea. As a spectator, of course it's a great idea.
SPYGUY
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8/12/2015 9:25am
Want better racing? Cut down the number of riders in the main event so that getting a bad start doesn't necessarily ruin your whole race.

The Kyle Partridge's, Ronnie Stewart's and Adam Enticknap's of the world would get way more exposure battling it out for the "B-Main" victory than they ever will riding around in 17th place in the current main events.

It would also then allow the very top echelon of SX contenders to have their own unadulterated battle in the "A-Main".
Silliker269
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8/12/2015 9:28am
I think 2 or 3 mains would be sick, sucks when the top guys don't get a start and have to work their way through the pack for 20 minutes. To me that part of the MEC is exciting

The Shop

Phillip_Lamb
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8/12/2015 9:51am
h&m_cycle wrote:
Anybody ever win the supercross or outdoor title without winning a main or overall?
Yes. Tim Ferry won the 1997 east title without winning a race. and GL8 won the 2003 125 MX without winning an O/a but he did win 1 moto.
Phillip_Lamb
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8/12/2015 9:52am
SPYGUY wrote:
Want better racing? Cut down the number of riders in the main event so that getting a bad start doesn't necessarily ruin your whole race. The...
Want better racing? Cut down the number of riders in the main event so that getting a bad start doesn't necessarily ruin your whole race.

The Kyle Partridge's, Ronnie Stewart's and Adam Enticknap's of the world would get way more exposure battling it out for the "B-Main" victory than they ever will riding around in 17th place in the current main events.

It would also then allow the very top echelon of SX contenders to have their own unadulterated battle in the "A-Main".
Have you seen a GP race recently? one of them only had 25 guys. 25 on a 40 man gate. it was silly. and its been done at X games. really 8 guys in one race is kinda a joke
Phillip_Lamb
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8/12/2015 10:12am
I think the best change would be as follows

1st. Eliminate 250 east west and create one 250 title. Heck the points count towards your number now anyways even thought they are regional races.

2nd bring in a 125 east west series. yes they wont have the power to clear everything that 250s and 450s can but thats the point. they never had enough and never will. Unless your name is James stewart.


3rd. .** Main events should be a 2 moto format. but overall is determined by olympic format.
**You score points based on overall not per moto like MX. so a 1-1 would only get 25 pts.
** motos would be 15 min +2 laps.
***250s run everything the same as 450s. Shorten heats and semis by a lap or two to accommodate the longer mains.

option 2. everyone races in the heats. but qualifying is elimination. top 15 move from heats to semis back 5 go home. then top 12 from semis then top 10 from LCQ. basically you have to keep winning to make it to the main. ***this format needs a tryout though.
SPYGUY
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8/12/2015 10:17am
Have you seen a GP race recently? one of them only had 25 guys. 25 on a 40 man gate. it was silly. and its been...
Have you seen a GP race recently? one of them only had 25 guys. 25 on a 40 man gate. it was silly. and its been done at X games. really 8 guys in one race is kinda a joke
It may have been done at X-Games but X-Games never had all of the top talent show up. Obviously the 8 rider gate is going to produce lackluster results in a field of mixed talent.

In real SX, all of the heavy hitters would be there.

You're telling me that you don't think a race with only the following riders would be more likely to produce good racing?

Dungey
Roczen
Tomac
Stewart
Barcia
Reed
Canard
Seely
Anderson
Pourcel
h&m_cycle
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8/12/2015 10:30am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2015 10:30am
Zracer wrote:
Im good with doing 2 motos and inverting the 2nd moto gate pick.
Best idea I've heard... If Stewart would win Main 1, he'd get 22nd gate pick in Main 2 which would ad a little excitement...

early
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8/12/2015 11:07am
How about instead of awarding points in the heat races, you take the 8 450 heat race qualifiers and run them in a 4 lap dash race before or after the 450 lcq. Award 5 points to only the winner of this race. That way you get a gate drop with only the top guys who would actually be racing for something. It also raises the stakes of qualifying out of the heat. You could also drum up some drama for the main, for instance if Canard took out Reed in the dash would Reed be looking to retaliate in the main?

This could be easily implemented and its not so gimmicky as a gate inversion.
8/12/2015 11:16am
What about Carmichael not winning after Daytona those years with Chad?
Or Bowers breaking his collar bone and limping in to the Arenacross chase.
Stewart missing the first few nationals in 03 and Langston winning. (I know this is for SX)
Reed stacking it up in 08 against Windham and using provisional's and a points lead to win.

Would this apply only to 450? If so then why?

Would attendance go up at the chase rounds but decline at say, round 7, 8, 9 before it starts?

When do the briefcases get introduced? Grinning

I have never been a fan of artificial entertainment. What's next? Stagger start after 10 laps? A chase within a chase! Debris red flags (Tuff Block on the track! Line em up!). Let the men race dammit.
731chopper
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8/12/2015 11:25am
TXDirt wrote:
I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...
I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.
I like this.
h&m_cycle
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8/12/2015 11:36am
TXDirt wrote:
I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better.... It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase"...
I am re-posting my comment from another thread on how to make SX racing infinitely better....

It's not complicated at all. No need for a "chase" format.

****

I think we can all agree that the current SX format has gotten a bit stale. They have made some tweaks that have improved it. Specifically bringing back the semis so we get more racing. That has been a good addition.

We need to rethink the traditional format and do something different. We need more action. More meaningful racing. We need to see more passes. More privateers starting up front and more stars battling through the pack.

All you need to do is these two things.....

1. Invert the start order for main events. Last qualifier gets first gate pick and so on.

I know what you are saying, this will make people sandbag in the qualifiers. See item number two. Item two is important for item one to work.

2. Give out some championship points in the qualifiers as well as for mains. This will eliminate sandbagging completely. Make the points meaningful and you will see epic qualifiers. Everyone knows how important points are and this will insure no one sandbags. Star riders will race to win the qualifiers just as they do now.

If these two things were implemented then the racing would drastically improve. There is nothing better then seeing a star rider come through the pack. We want to see passes and racing, not follow the leader. The start has become too important with the current format.

Inverting the main event start order would make it so privateers start up front more and the star riders might start in the back a bit more. The cream will always rises to the top. We just might be able to see more passes. Everyone always hopes one of the stars gets a bad start so we can see them come through the pack. Why? Because we want to see them skillfully and relentlessly race to the front.

**** /end

I would also like to add that having a few more privateers start up front increases exposure for more sponsors. We need more riders to get exposure and thus more potential sponsors would get some meaningful exposure.

The fast riders will move their way through the pack (cream rises to the top). The fans will get more exiting racing.

If this format was implemented for one year you would wonder how we ever did it differently. It would be awesome. Period.
731chopper wrote:
I like this.
It is good, the way it is now, a top rider in Supercross pretty much knows whether he's going to finish in the top 5
after the first lap if he doesn't fall...
Park Boys
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8/12/2015 12:39pm
What about Carmichael not winning after Daytona those years with Chad? Or Bowers breaking his collar bone and limping in to the Arenacross chase. Stewart missing...
What about Carmichael not winning after Daytona those years with Chad?
Or Bowers breaking his collar bone and limping in to the Arenacross chase.
Stewart missing the first few nationals in 03 and Langston winning. (I know this is for SX)
Reed stacking it up in 08 against Windham and using provisional's and a points lead to win.

Would this apply only to 450? If so then why?

Would attendance go up at the chase rounds but decline at say, round 7, 8, 9 before it starts?

When do the briefcases get introduced? Grinning

I have never been a fan of artificial entertainment. What's next? Stagger start after 10 laps? A chase within a chase! Debris red flags (Tuff Block on the track! Line em up!). Let the men race dammit.
Artificial entertainment, I like that.
8/12/2015 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2015 1:37pm
Park Boys wrote:
Artificial entertainment, I like that.
Does anyone else see the similarities in both series? MXGP trying to be like F1. American MX trying to be like NASCAR?

It's just a bunch of copying from a series that has a different fan base and element of racing. We need Drag Reduction Systems, restrictor plates, Energy Recovery Systems, ovals, rich oil tycoons, communists, southern pride, moonshine, tifosi, green-white-checkers, chase format, right side tires ONLY, splash and goes, no refueling, option & prime tires and knockout qualifying. That will fix motocross worldwide and give every rider and sponsor a huge pay day.
Jrewing
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8/12/2015 3:03pm
No hairpins at the end of the start straight. Or wider options at the hairpins.
Starts are too much luck in sx
KMC440
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8/12/2015 3:20pm
Add more LCQ's like ten of them ... they're my favorite.
Premix
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8/12/2015 3:22pm
Does anyone else see the similarities in both series? MXGP trying to be like F1. American MX trying to be like NASCAR? It's just a bunch...
Does anyone else see the similarities in both series? MXGP trying to be like F1. American MX trying to be like NASCAR?

It's just a bunch of copying from a series that has a different fan base and element of racing. We need Drag Reduction Systems, restrictor plates, Energy Recovery Systems, ovals, rich oil tycoons, communists, southern pride, moonshine, tifosi, green-white-checkers, chase format, right side tires ONLY, splash and goes, no refueling, option & prime tires and knockout qualifying. That will fix motocross worldwide and give every rider and sponsor a huge pay day.
Sound checks, energy drinks, weight limits, black flags, fuel restrictions, spec tires, timed qualifying, hats offs systems, anti-doping code, tue's, wada, approved machines. Yep. We need it.
Paul333
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8/12/2015 7:13pm
Please for the love of God don't go to a Nascar Chase format for Supercross/Motocross. Both the races themselves and the series are intended to be endurance events as much as they highlight speed.

Take that away and you might as well make the sport all Red Bull Rhythm Straight races.
AZ35
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8/12/2015 8:13pm
Add pools of water. With sharks. Riders have to jump over them, or else....

Happy Days?

But seriously, the MEC is on to something with multiple shorter races that mean something. The 20 lap holeshot winner take all format needs to change. All the "it doesn't work for live TV" bullshit is discounted by the fact that it DOES work for the MEC. And the pro-am and mini races are awesome too.

I would much rather watch 16 MEC style races than 16 Feld/AMA.

I have not missed watching a race (live or TV) at every opportunity since 1980. But there is now hundreds of events competing for the same air time on TV so something needs to make it more interesting. In a society of instant internet gratification the attention span is all almost non-existent. And get off my lawn.
Johnny Depp
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8/12/2015 8:36pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2015 9:05pm
Inverted starts are for a show, not a series where we determine the best. That is handicapping.

Mickey Thompson already did it, on truck tracks though.

Gate pick should be random by lottery. That alone will change some of the runaways.

The support class needs to have a clear visible distinction. Mini Bikes.

Everybody else needs to man up and enter the Supercross class. About 80 riders make the night show.

Elimination qualifiers. 7 total motos. 80 riders x 4. 40 riders x 2. 20 in the main.

Real fast minis run once before the main.

Run what ya brung.
BAMX
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8/12/2015 9:15pm
The Rock wrote:
Apologize if this is a repeat but here is a good article where they review the impact the Chase has had.
I am sorry but that article is nonsense. It is a bunch of people who are still involved in the sport and need to have a good relationship with Nascar. It is like asking Dungey if his bike is good. The fact is that everything has tanked since they implemented the chase format. Is it only the chase? No but it is defiantly a factor.

The problem is that it lessens the Championship and everyone knows it. Keeping it together for a month is a lot less impressive than keeping it together all season.
dboivin
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8/12/2015 10:25pm
snocross just changed their rules for this season and moved to inverted start. they raised the points for the qualifiers so guys won't sandbag the qualifier to get front row starts. this should be interesting (not). kinda retarded IMO.
Alex814
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8/13/2015 10:27am
dboivin wrote:
snocross just changed their rules for this season and moved to inverted start. they raised the points for the qualifiers so guys won't sandbag the qualifier...
snocross just changed their rules for this season and moved to inverted start. they raised the points for the qualifiers so guys won't sandbag the qualifier to get front row starts. this should be interesting (not). kinda retarded IMO.
Agree. I really hope that we never see inverted starts in supercross. This is not a county fair or xgames.
Adam43
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8/13/2015 11:07am
A mix of different race day formats would be much more preferable than a Chase style points structure.

NASCAR yes men can crow about how wonderful it is, in truth that series has been in decline since they introduced it - in TV ratings, at-track attendance, and sponsorship dollars invested in the sport.

Moto is doing a lot of things right and sometimes has an inferiority complex. NASCAR salivates over this sports demographic.
steveada
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8/13/2015 11:13am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2015 11:14am
I think the solution is simple, without inverting gate picks or giving points for qualifiers and points for holeshots and points for best whip or any other gimmick. To me 90% or more of the time the finish order is pretty much set by half way through a 20 lap main, and the rest of the time is filled by announcers trying to find something to talk about and the cameramen trying to find some battle somewhere in the pack to show. Get rid of the single 20 lap main and have more of a motocross format with two 10 or 12 lap mains, both paying points. You can make it interesting by giving a couple of extra points for the overall. I think that would make it more exciting to watch. I understand some people think longer motos would be more challenging fitness wise, but I really think that wouldn't change the results and as a spectator it would just make it more like Nascar, having to watch them going around and around longer without anything happening.
h&m_cycle
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8/13/2015 11:22am
steveada wrote:
I think the solution is simple, without inverting gate picks or giving points for qualifiers and points for holeshots and points for best whip or any...
I think the solution is simple, without inverting gate picks or giving points for qualifiers and points for holeshots and points for best whip or any other gimmick. To me 90% or more of the time the finish order is pretty much set by half way through a 20 lap main, and the rest of the time is filled by announcers trying to find something to talk about and the cameramen trying to find some battle somewhere in the pack to show. Get rid of the single 20 lap main and have more of a motocross format with two 10 or 12 lap mains, both paying points. You can make it interesting by giving a couple of extra points for the overall. I think that would make it more exciting to watch. I understand some people think longer motos would be more challenging fitness wise, but I really think that wouldn't change the results and as a spectator it would just make it more like Nascar, having to watch them going around and around longer without anything happening.
I don't see that changing anything, some of those supercross starting gates have about 5 good picks, the same guys
will be out front in the second main too... Then the only excitement is if one of the top guys crashes and changes
things up... just the same old song and dance...
stewie94
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8/13/2015 11:33am
no wonder stick & ball sports fans look at our sport as a joke...... its just dumb , leave it the way it is
8/13/2015 1:22pm
The Rock wrote:
Apologize if this is a repeat but here is a good article where they review the impact the Chase has had.
BAMX wrote:
I am sorry but that article is nonsense. It is a bunch of people who are still involved in the sport and need to have a...
I am sorry but that article is nonsense. It is a bunch of people who are still involved in the sport and need to have a good relationship with Nascar. It is like asking Dungey if his bike is good. The fact is that everything has tanked since they implemented the chase format. Is it only the chase? No but it is defiantly a factor.

The problem is that it lessens the Championship and everyone knows it. Keeping it together for a month is a lot less impressive than keeping it together all season.
...and why did they implement the chase system? Because the ratings and attendance were dropping. That's also why it went from 10-12 after three years. Then back to 10 with 2 wild card drivers (2 with the most wins) for four years. Now it's a "playoff" format with 16 cars dropping drivers after every couple of races.

If "your" driver doesn't make the chase or gets knocked out after week 3 how interested are you? If they missed it by one spot how stupid do you think it is?

It's just a giant gimmick and they realize it. That's why they change the rules every 3-4 years, to keep interest in what is obviously a flawed system. If attendance and viewership was up they wouldn't be changing every 3-4 years like clockwork, there would be no reason to.
Phillip_Lamb
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8/13/2015 2:52pm
Have you seen a GP race recently? one of them only had 25 guys. 25 on a 40 man gate. it was silly. and its been...
Have you seen a GP race recently? one of them only had 25 guys. 25 on a 40 man gate. it was silly. and its been done at X games. really 8 guys in one race is kinda a joke
SPYGUY wrote:
It may have been done at X-Games but X-Games never had all of the top talent show up. Obviously the 8 rider gate is going to...
It may have been done at X-Games but X-Games never had all of the top talent show up. Obviously the 8 rider gate is going to produce lackluster results in a field of mixed talent.

In real SX, all of the heavy hitters would be there.

You're telling me that you don't think a race with only the following riders would be more likely to produce good racing?

Dungey
Roczen
Tomac
Stewart
Barcia
Reed
Canard
Seely
Anderson
Pourcel
1st. In 2006 RC reed and kdub all showed up at the SX xgames race. rc won

2nd no it would be like any other saturday. just because there are less riders does not mean better racing. everyone will still settle into their respective positions.

how do i know? ive raced in a class with 40 guys at once. the fastest guy was out front and i was in the top ten

then same year i was in the same class but with half the guys. Shocker, the fast guy was still out front and i was still top ten


THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is if someone crashes he doesnt finish last in 20th. he finishes LAST in 10th.

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