KTM 250 SX Carb Swap

kylant
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6/21/2015 1:57pm
digger wrote:
Do yourself a favor and startout with a main jet 2 to 3 sizes larger than what you were using in the 36. The decrease in...
Do yourself a favor and startout with a main jet 2 to 3 sizes larger than what you were using in the 36. The decrease in the velocity of the air that is drawn through the 38mm carb will require a larger main jet. You also may need to increase the pilot jet 1-2 sizes as well to startout with.
kylant wrote:
with this advice, do you suggest doing anything with the needle? i was running a 40p, NECJ #3, 160 main, as 2 prior to swapping to...
with this advice, do you suggest doing anything with the needle?

i was running a 40p, NECJ #3, 160 main, as 2 prior to swapping to the 38, NECJ#2, 158, but the air temps were a good 10* cooler. bike still ran good, but I think it was a little fat on the bottom.

sounds like maybe I should go back to the richer jetting for the 38 carb and see how she runs?!


oh and BTW, I got the carb listed for a 2014 150sx, and it came with a 7 slide instead of the 6.5 posted earlier. KTM must have made a change. I tried to get an earlier model carb, but this was the only one available without a long backorder
digger wrote:
You've got the right carb with the right slide. That NECJ needle is fine to start out with. Ideally you want to start out a little...
You've got the right carb with the right slide.

That NECJ needle is fine to start out with. Ideally you want to start out a little rich and work your way leaner, especially with the main jet. With that said, start out with the Needle in the #3 clip, with the 40 pilot and a 168 main and work your way leaner, if you need to.
what slide is suggested?
7 is leaner than the 6.5 correct?
thx
digger
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6/21/2015 3:19pm
Yes, the #7 slide is leaner than the 6.5. It's (#7) also the slide I would suggest that you use.
kylant
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6/22/2015 6:41am
digger wrote:
Yes, the #7 slide is leaner than the 6.5. It's (#7) also the slide I would suggest that you use.
thanks
i’ll start with that jetting and go from there.
kylant
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6/22/2015 12:36pm
just got the new carb installed and adjusted.
went 40p, 7 slide, NECJ #3, 165 main, as is 2 out. elevation 6300 ft, 76* out, humidity probably about 10%

got fully warm, ran up and down the street a few times. runs clean, crisp. pulls WAY harder than the 36 and does not fall flat!! excited to get out for a ride
1

The Shop

gameover
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6/24/2015 7:43am Edited Date/Time 6/24/2015 8:23am
I got my bike built up again. Started it with the new 38mm carb. 7 slide, Necj needle in the 3rd clip, 40 and a 160 jets. Didn't even mess with the air screw cuz I forgot to.

Bike started up nicely. Bike now revs super crisp....extremely crisp whereas before you could definitely tell it was running rough til about 1/2 throttle. Smile rode it on my street and wow. It feels good. Didn't get to hammer down on it but its good.

Ohh yeah, 2 stroke revolution! I'm excited to take it out to the track.
Hal_396
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6/24/2015 9:08am
Installing a 300 kit on my bike soon. Jetting good to go from a 250 to the 300 or will I need to change something?
digger
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6/24/2015 1:33pm
gameover wrote:
I got my bike built up again. Started it with the new 38mm carb. 7 slide, Necj needle in the 3rd clip, 40 and a 160...
I got my bike built up again. Started it with the new 38mm carb. 7 slide, Necj needle in the 3rd clip, 40 and a 160 jets. Didn't even mess with the air screw cuz I forgot to.

Bike started up nicely. Bike now revs super crisp....extremely crisp whereas before you could definitely tell it was running rough til about 1/2 throttle. Smile rode it on my street and wow. It feels good. Didn't get to hammer down on it but its good.

Ohh yeah, 2 stroke revolution! I'm excited to take it out to the track.
Be careful with that 160 main jet in there. That seems lean for a sea level setting.
sandman768
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6/25/2015 5:18am
I have a 2015 xc 300 that I am trying to get jetting sorted out, not swapping to a 38 carb just yet. will the suz necj needle and the 6.5 slide help the 36 mm carb jetting? I use this bike for gncc/ rough sand track type riding, not full on wide open mx but not single track bush wack riding either.
digger
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6/25/2015 12:42pm
sandman768 wrote:
I have a 2015 xc 300 that I am trying to get jetting sorted out, not swapping to a 38 carb just yet. will the suz...
I have a 2015 xc 300 that I am trying to get jetting sorted out, not swapping to a 38 carb just yet. will the suz necj needle and the 6.5 slide help the 36 mm carb jetting? I use this bike for gncc/ rough sand track type riding, not full on wide open mx but not single track bush wack riding either.
I have a bone stock 15 300 xc-w in my garage right now. I have it set up with an NEDJ in the #2 clip with a 38 pilot a 168 main, and the air screw 2 turns out. This is with the stock #7 slide. I could probably go down to a 165 main for the type/level of riding that he does. I have tested other setups that I like better, but it's not my bike. The owner races H/S (WNYOA) at a Novice level and is very happy with the setup.

Do you ever ride at CATRA ?
sandman768
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6/25/2015 2:30pm
sandman768 wrote:
I have a 2015 xc 300 that I am trying to get jetting sorted out, not swapping to a 38 carb just yet. will the suz...
I have a 2015 xc 300 that I am trying to get jetting sorted out, not swapping to a 38 carb just yet. will the suz necj needle and the 6.5 slide help the 36 mm carb jetting? I use this bike for gncc/ rough sand track type riding, not full on wide open mx but not single track bush wack riding either.
digger wrote:
I have a bone stock 15 300 xc-w in my garage right now. I have it set up with an NEDJ in the #2 clip with...
I have a bone stock 15 300 xc-w in my garage right now. I have it set up with an NEDJ in the #2 clip with a 38 pilot a 168 main, and the air screw 2 turns out. This is with the stock #7 slide. I could probably go down to a 165 main for the type/level of riding that he does. I have tested other setups that I like better, but it's not my bike. The owner races H/S (WNYOA) at a Novice level and is very happy with the setup.

Do you ever ride at CATRA ?
i have been playing with stock needle position, main & air screw, have not found ideal setup yet, I keep going back to stock jetting so I have a decent baseline, but I think its time to change needles & possibly buy a 6.5 slide. I also have fmf shorty & fatty pipe. I am a Catra member but have not ridden there in 2 yrs, I prefer faster, more open courses, I have a gncc type sand track/ course I ride at. Catra is fun but the rocks are hard on a bike!
digger
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6/25/2015 7:17pm Edited Date/Time 6/25/2015 7:21pm
sandman768 wrote:
I have a 2015 xc 300 that I am trying to get jetting sorted out, not swapping to a 38 carb just yet. will the suz...
I have a 2015 xc 300 that I am trying to get jetting sorted out, not swapping to a 38 carb just yet. will the suz necj needle and the 6.5 slide help the 36 mm carb jetting? I use this bike for gncc/ rough sand track type riding, not full on wide open mx but not single track bush wack riding either.
digger wrote:
I have a bone stock 15 300 xc-w in my garage right now. I have it set up with an NEDJ in the #2 clip with...
I have a bone stock 15 300 xc-w in my garage right now. I have it set up with an NEDJ in the #2 clip with a 38 pilot a 168 main, and the air screw 2 turns out. This is with the stock #7 slide. I could probably go down to a 165 main for the type/level of riding that he does. I have tested other setups that I like better, but it's not my bike. The owner races H/S (WNYOA) at a Novice level and is very happy with the setup.

Do you ever ride at CATRA ?
sandman768 wrote:
i have been playing with stock needle position, main & air screw, have not found ideal setup yet, I keep going back to stock jetting so...
i have been playing with stock needle position, main & air screw, have not found ideal setup yet, I keep going back to stock jetting so I have a decent baseline, but I think its time to change needles & possibly buy a 6.5 slide. I also have fmf shorty & fatty pipe. I am a Catra member but have not ridden there in 2 yrs, I prefer faster, more open courses, I have a gncc type sand track/ course I ride at. Catra is fun but the rocks are hard on a bike!
Change the needle, but keep the #7 slide. If you just have to buy another slide, go for a #8. I use/like the #8 slide with the Yamaha/KTM N3xx/N8Rx series needles.

I'm a CATRA member as well. I probably ride at CATRA twice a month. I'm not afraid of the rocks
sandman768
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6/26/2015 5:44am
going to try the suz necj & ktm n8re needles before buying a slide, the stock jetting is not that bad but I know it can run better. My catra riding buds always bust my balls for not riding there more...a few yrs ago we had a really good loop there & it was alot of fun, good practice for H/S & GNCC"S. I" m a Mxer at heart, but riding those trails also helps the mx skills. Digger, do you own a bike shop? thanks for your input.
digger
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6/26/2015 11:33am
sandman768 wrote:
going to try the suz necj & ktm n8re needles before buying a slide, the stock jetting is not that bad but I know it can...
going to try the suz necj & ktm n8re needles before buying a slide, the stock jetting is not that bad but I know it can run better. My catra riding buds always bust my balls for not riding there more...a few yrs ago we had a really good loop there & it was alot of fun, good practice for H/S & GNCC"S. I" m a Mxer at heart, but riding those trails also helps the mx skills. Digger, do you own a bike shop? thanks for your input.
I don't own a shop. I'm also a racer myself(H/S, GNCC, and national enduros) and member of another local club that a bunch of the members there race as well. I have helped setup their bikes. I also help out guys at the races on there setups as well. I just carry around a bunch of jetting setups that I know work in a bunch of different bikes, when I go to the races.It's just something that I enjoy doing.

The NECJ needle works fine, but the N8RE is 5 steps richer than the NECJ and about 6 richer than the stock n84k needle on the starting diameter alone. The bike will run very rich at small throttle settings.
sandman768
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6/27/2015 3:26pm
sandman768 wrote:
going to try the suz necj & ktm n8re needles before buying a slide, the stock jetting is not that bad but I know it can...
going to try the suz necj & ktm n8re needles before buying a slide, the stock jetting is not that bad but I know it can run better. My catra riding buds always bust my balls for not riding there more...a few yrs ago we had a really good loop there & it was alot of fun, good practice for H/S & GNCC"S. I" m a Mxer at heart, but riding those trails also helps the mx skills. Digger, do you own a bike shop? thanks for your input.
digger wrote:
I don't own a shop. I'm also a racer myself(H/S, GNCC, and national enduros) and member of another local club that a bunch of the members...
I don't own a shop. I'm also a racer myself(H/S, GNCC, and national enduros) and member of another local club that a bunch of the members there race as well. I have helped setup their bikes. I also help out guys at the races on there setups as well. I just carry around a bunch of jetting setups that I know work in a bunch of different bikes, when I go to the races.It's just something that I enjoy doing.

The NECJ needle works fine, but the N8RE is 5 steps richer than the NECJ and about 6 richer than the stock n84k needle on the starting diameter alone. The bike will run very rich at small throttle settings.
thanks for the needle info, I dont need to be that rich, I was told the n8re needle along with 6.5 slide works well by a Ktm rep. maybe he thought I was Going to be wide open everywhere? I had used my 2012 xc 300 for mostly MX, which required much richer jetting than stock, I" m not riding MX on this bike but more Gncc type riding. I"ll play with the suzook needle next time out...
gameover
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7/19/2015 11:11am
Alright, here is my review after the 38mm carb swap from a 2015 tc125: (ohh yeah, I also had zipty racing revalve the shocks)

THE BIKE RIPS HARD!

WOW!

That's how ho describe it.

I had three other guys ride it and compare it to their rides (RM250, CR250 and YZ250) and they all came back with a big smile in their faces.
1
7/19/2015 4:28pm
I havent tried the 7 slide in my 15 300 sx, the 7 will make it leaner between 1/4 to 1/2 correct? Will try forsure right now my bike is jetted pretty dam close to perfect just alil rich at 1/4 throttle, im running a necj 6.5 slide 178 main 40 pilot, straight vp c12, my motor is modded by jbonemotor works any of u guys need anything done check him out , my bike is amazing!also if any of u guys are looking for a great deal on ohlins rfx forks with mxtech huckvalves im sellling a fresh set, I just got some wp A kit. 8482102782
digger
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7/19/2015 6:11pm
I havent tried the 7 slide in my 15 300 sx, the 7 will make it leaner between 1/4 to 1/2 correct? Will try forsure right...
I havent tried the 7 slide in my 15 300 sx, the 7 will make it leaner between 1/4 to 1/2 correct? Will try forsure right now my bike is jetted pretty dam close to perfect just alil rich at 1/4 throttle, im running a necj 6.5 slide 178 main 40 pilot, straight vp c12, my motor is modded by jbonemotor works any of u guys need anything done check him out , my bike is amazing!also if any of u guys are looking for a great deal on ohlins rfx forks with mxtech huckvalves im sellling a fresh set, I just got some wp A kit. 8482102782
The slide affects from 0-- 40% of the throttle opening. The needle/clip position can make it leaner from 1/4--3/4 throttle.
kylant
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8/7/2015 6:38pm
finally got on the bike after swapping to the 38mm carb. trying to get it dialed in. It has a bog just off idle doing the “whack” test and coming out of turns.

elevation 6300ft, 60*, and high humidity today.

I started with this jetting: 40p, 7.0 slide, NECJ clip 3, 165 main, AS 1.5 turns. bike bogged probably 75% of time
I ended up swapping to a 42p, and AS 1 turn out. bog seemed to diminish, may to 50% of the time.
bike idles good with both above jet settings

Seems like a lean bog??
Where should I go from here? 6.5 slide, richer needle, lower clip on current needle??
thanks
digger
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8/8/2015 4:44am
kylant wrote:
finally got on the bike after swapping to the 38mm carb. trying to get it dialed in. It has a bog just off idle doing the...
finally got on the bike after swapping to the 38mm carb. trying to get it dialed in. It has a bog just off idle doing the “whack” test and coming out of turns.

elevation 6300ft, 60*, and high humidity today.

I started with this jetting: 40p, 7.0 slide, NECJ clip 3, 165 main, AS 1.5 turns. bike bogged probably 75% of time
I ended up swapping to a 42p, and AS 1 turn out. bog seemed to diminish, may to 50% of the time.
bike idles good with both above jet settings

Seems like a lean bog??
Where should I go from here? 6.5 slide, richer needle, lower clip on current needle??
thanks
It sounds like a lean bog. I would start off by moving the clip on the needle down to #4 and test it. Then #5 if you need to , also if you need to, turn the air screw in more to test to see if you need a larger pilot jet. You need to determine if it's the pilot or the needle causing the lean condition, or some other mechanical issue(air leak). I would not really expect your current setup to be lean at 6300', unless it's really cool
kylant
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8/8/2015 7:48am Edited Date/Time 8/8/2015 7:57am
digger wrote:
It sounds like a lean bog. I would start off by moving the clip on the needle down to #4 and test it. Then #5 if...
It sounds like a lean bog. I would start off by moving the clip on the needle down to #4 and test it. Then #5 if you need to , also if you need to, turn the air screw in more to test to see if you need a larger pilot jet. You need to determine if it's the pilot or the needle causing the lean condition, or some other mechanical issue(air leak). I would not really expect your current setup to be lean at 6300', unless it's really cool
i’ll give it a shot. what about swapping to the 6.5 slide. earlier in the thread all the talk was about keeping the 6.5 slide from the 36, then towards the end it was keep the 7?
ya, it was about 60*, so not too cool.
jetting seemed good with the 36, I don’t think I have an air leak, possible though
gameover
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8/8/2015 8:40am
digger wrote:
It sounds like a lean bog. I would start off by moving the clip on the needle down to #4 and test it. Then #5 if...
It sounds like a lean bog. I would start off by moving the clip on the needle down to #4 and test it. Then #5 if you need to , also if you need to, turn the air screw in more to test to see if you need a larger pilot jet. You need to determine if it's the pilot or the needle causing the lean condition, or some other mechanical issue(air leak). I would not really expect your current setup to be lean at 6300', unless it's really cool
kylant wrote:
i’ll give it a shot. what about swapping to the 6.5 slide. earlier in the thread all the talk was about keeping the 6.5 slide from...
i’ll give it a shot. what about swapping to the 6.5 slide. earlier in the thread all the talk was about keeping the 6.5 slide from the 36, then towards the end it was keep the 7?
ya, it was about 60*, so not too cool.
jetting seemed good with the 36, I don’t think I have an air leak, possible though
Mine runs sweet with the 7 slide at sea level in northwest Florida.

Had to go from a 38 to 42 and from a 158 to 162.
kylant
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8/9/2015 5:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/9/2015 5:45pm
update:

got a ride in today. outside temp 75*, humidity low.
all I did to change the jetting was change the slide back to the 6.5 and turn the AS back to 1.5 (ended up at 3/4 before)
started with this: 42p, 6.5 slide, NECJ #3, 165 main, AS 1.5 turns.
bike was way better, only bogged 1 or 2 times while on stand.

I adjusted the idle down just a touch (it was fast) and closed the AS 1/4 turn. after that had no bogs.

Also, just to test I put a 170 main in (on the pipe a lot) to see if there was any difference. There was, the bike would fall flat and not rev out as far. Put the 165 back in and it was way better
YZed250
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9/4/2015 8:17am
2011 KTM 250SX
Keighin PWK 8KTBA
Needle, N85C
Clip, Top
Pilot 42
Main 160
Slide 6.5
AS is 2 out, but I have not messed with this
Carbon blade/wing across intake side

Symptom: loading up across lower half throttle, spooge

Anyone familiar with this needle?

Considering at least a drop to a 40 pilot based on previous posts in this thread and Suzuki NECJ needle.

80% track, 15% desert, 5% asphalt.

I will be able to comment on the main once I get this thing out to the track and burn at tank of gas. Seems smaller than what a lot of others are running.

This bike is new (to me) and I don't have much/any seat time except for blasting around the street at my house. I live a long way from a riding area.
digger
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9/4/2015 11:26am Edited Date/Time 9/4/2015 1:06pm
It looks to me like you have a 38mm PWK off an early big bore(380-500) bike.

The N85C needle is an old school duel taper needle that was used in larger cc bikes. It has the same exact taper and profile as a modern YZ/KTM N3xx needle, but with a leaner L-1, which means the clip positions are 1 full clip position leaner than a Yamaha/KTM N3Cx needle. N3Cx in #2 clip = N85x in clip #3.

The part on that needle that is causing most of your problems is the C diameter of the needle. This will affect your low throttle setting(0-1/4). With that said you will never be able to get that needle to run cleanly down low. The diameter is just to rich to be useful for you on your 250, IMO.

The Suzuki needle setup is where I would start out if I were you. Start out with an NECJ needle in #3, 40/42 pilot, as determined by the AS, and start out with a 172/170 main.
YZed250
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9/4/2015 11:59am




Thanks, Digger.

Notice the epoxied passage on the intake side. Never seen this before.

Whoever installed the wing did a very nice job of it.

Can't wait to run this thing at the track.


Charper732
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9/16/2015 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2015 5:49pm
I have read through this thread. I am confused on the body size of certian year 38mm carbs. Some saying only the '13+ are the same while others are using a 09 carb and say its exactly the same as current model carbs.

Could someone please chime in? I have a '14 250sx and looking to get a 38mm carb now.
gameover
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9/16/2015 6:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2015 6:33pm
Charper732 wrote:
I have read through this thread. I am confused on the body size of certian year 38mm carbs. Some saying only the '13+ are the same...
I have read through this thread. I am confused on the body size of certian year 38mm carbs. Some saying only the '13+ are the same while others are using a 09 carb and say its exactly the same as current model carbs.

Could someone please chime in? I have a '14 250sx and looking to get a 38mm carb now.
https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/2

Select carburetor

You want part number 50331101544

Once you get it bring the old carb's jets to the new one and, if you haven't done so already, get the necj needle for a 2008 rm250, put the clip on the 3rd clip from bottom to top, and install that needle on the new carb as well.

You will thank digger!
Charper732
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9/16/2015 6:52pm
That link is no good. Thanks for that but the info im looking for is years and bikes that have the same size carb body as the current '14 model, These carbs can be found on ebay for half of what retail is.
gameover
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9/16/2015 7:01pm
Charper732 wrote:
That link is no good. Thanks for that but the info im looking for is years and bikes that have the same size carb body as...
That link is no good. Thanks for that but the info im looking for is years and bikes that have the same size carb body as the current '14 model, These carbs can be found on ebay for half of what retail is.
Sorry.

The link is for the carb schematic of a 2014 125sx

If you're good with eBay stuff then go for it.

I bought a new 2015 tc125 carb for my tc250 and don't regret it Smile
kylant
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9/17/2015 5:08am Edited Date/Time 9/17/2015 5:10am
i am selling the carb I just bought listed in this thread:
51531001644 CARB. KEIH. PWK 38S AG | 14. $397.13 from Rocky Mountain.
This is the 38mm from a 2014 150x.

I am selling it with the NECJ needle, 42p, 165 main, 7.0 slide.

Carb was on my 2014 250sx for less than 10 hours, probably about 5. it is essentially brand new.I am only selling it because I am selling my bike and picking up a new one today.
I am selling it for substantially less than the new one.
If anyone is interested, email me at kylant@charter.net and we can discuss details

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