Villopoto???

joeellis wrote:

I understand your point regerding the 250 class, but the guys you name are still of similar age and weren't world champions or AMA champions at...

I understand your point regerding the 250 class, but the guys you name are still of similar age and weren't world champions or AMA champions at that point I don't believe. I could be wrong about that however. Ken was a world champion racing against Musquin, Herlings and the like is my point. You're taking this as I'm trying to detract from Ken's achievements. I'm not. He is obviously one of the top 5 or so riders in the world, at least in my mind.

All I'm trying to refer to is, Ken has had full seasons in Europe and in America. It is rather easy to weigh his accomplishments. RV only had a few races to adapt. It really isn't fair to compare the two. Both will more than likely go down as two of the greatest ever.

Jose Espana wrote:

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when...

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when he first came over to ride the nationals .

Yes , he was the current mx2 world champ , but the guys he beat to it were all really just kids , similar to him , even double mx2 champ Musquin had gone to the US by then and all the main guys we know today ( Cairoli , Desalle , Nagl etc ) had all moved up to mx1.

Now , I am not try to say the mx2 world title is an easy championship , far from it , but he didn,t quite arrive in the US with some sort of huge reputation and hype about how he was going to walk all over the US guys .

That 250 2012 year in the US was a very tough class , it was Baggetts championship year and also included Tomac , Barcia , as well as Musquin , but Roczen came in and was bang on the pace from moto 1 .

Compare that to RV this year , who did arrive with a huge reputation and big expectations , but was not able to deliver to the same standard as Roczen did in his debut year , yet when any euro on here has the cheek to mention that , we get shot down , with excuses , such as -- you need time to learn the tracks , or he needs more time for his set up - I am sure you know them all as well as I do by now .

pilotdude wrote:

Pretty much every post you make here makes you out to be another shit-stirring, America-hating, lame-ass dickhead. Just another version of "The Sore" who should be...

Pretty much every post you make here makes you out to be another shit-stirring, America-hating, lame-ass dickhead. Just another version of "The Sore" who should be thrown out of here on his head.

Old chum.

RY4N37 wrote:

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability...

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability for Supercross. It's the same in Germany as well. The Netherlands has absolutely nothing that can come anywhere near being described as a SX, so you can understand Herlings not being as good as Musquin or Roczen right off the bat.

When was this anyway? 2011? The kid was like 16. It's not like this clip was recorded after he had been SX testing for months, maybe more like a day or 2.

Go to the Glen Helen GP, watch that kid ride, I guarantee you that you won't be able to come back to me on here and honestly say that you weren't impressed.

Alucard wrote:

Why it's so fucking hard to understand that in Europe, except for french riders, there isn't the SX culture? All the euro guys that did well...

Why it's so fucking hard to understand that in Europe, except for french riders, there isn't the SX culture? All the euro guys that did well in AMA SX from the start were already proficent with a background in it... It's a matter of opportunity, not talent, riders like Cairoli and Herlings, for example, would contend for SX titles if they had trained from the start in it, it's very simple... In Europe everything is focused on traditional MX...

Torco1 wrote:

Beta or VHS?

struth wrote:

On foxtel

ATKpilot99 wrote:

[img]https://dudeareyouserious.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/joke-goes-over-head-superman.gif[/img]

RY4N37 wrote:

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability...

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability for Supercross. It's the same in Germany as well. The Netherlands has absolutely nothing that can come anywhere near being described as a SX, so you can understand Herlings not being as good as Musquin or Roczen right off the bat.

When was this anyway? 2011? The kid was like 16. It's not like this clip was recorded after he had been SX testing for months, maybe more like a day or 2.

Go to the Glen Helen GP, watch that kid ride, I guarantee you that you won't be able to come back to me on here and honestly say that you weren't impressed.

Alucard wrote:

Why it's so fucking hard to understand that in Europe, except for french riders, there isn't the SX culture? All the euro guys that did well...

Why it's so fucking hard to understand that in Europe, except for french riders, there isn't the SX culture? All the euro guys that did well in AMA SX from the start were already proficent with a background in it... It's a matter of opportunity, not talent, riders like Cairoli and Herlings, for example, would contend for SX titles if they had trained from the start in it, it's very simple... In Europe everything is focused on traditional MX...

machine wrote:

Are you kidding me?...dude looks like me on that track and that's not good. :lol: The best racers excel at BOTH disciplines. You Herlings fanboy Euros...

Are you kidding me?...dude looks like me on that track and that's not good. The best racers excel at BOTH disciplines. You Herlings fanboy Euros need to get a grip. All the good GP riders that have come over were almost immediately good at SX. That's why our racing is the toughest in the world. It's easy to do one thing good, but to excel at both takes a lot of talent.

RY4N37 wrote:

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability...

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability for Supercross. It's the same in Germany as well. The Netherlands has absolutely nothing that can come anywhere near being described as a SX, so you can understand Herlings not being as good as Musquin or Roczen right off the bat.

When was this anyway? 2011? The kid was like 16. It's not like this clip was recorded after he had been SX testing for months, maybe more like a day or 2.

Go to the Glen Helen GP, watch that kid ride, I guarantee you that you won't be able to come back to me on here and honestly say that you weren't impressed.

Jose Espana wrote:

Ha Ha Ha , really old chum , you need to get out a bit more . Just do me one simple thing , please just...

Ha Ha Ha , really old chum , you need to get out a bit more .

Just do me one simple thing , please just quote me anything I have said that shows me to be anti American .

RV came to Europe and was disappointing , why the hell is it so hard for you guys to just accept that and take it for what it was .

joeellis wrote:

I understand your point regerding the 250 class, but the guys you name are still of similar age and weren't world champions or AMA champions at...

I understand your point regerding the 250 class, but the guys you name are still of similar age and weren't world champions or AMA champions at that point I don't believe. I could be wrong about that however. Ken was a world champion racing against Musquin, Herlings and the like is my point. You're taking this as I'm trying to detract from Ken's achievements. I'm not. He is obviously one of the top 5 or so riders in the world, at least in my mind.

All I'm trying to refer to is, Ken has had full seasons in Europe and in America. It is rather easy to weigh his accomplishments. RV only had a few races to adapt. It really isn't fair to compare the two. Both will more than likely go down as two of the greatest ever.

Jose Espana wrote:

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when...

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when he first came over to ride the nationals .

Yes , he was the current mx2 world champ , but the guys he beat to it were all really just kids , similar to him , even double mx2 champ Musquin had gone to the US by then and all the main guys we know today ( Cairoli , Desalle , Nagl etc ) had all moved up to mx1.

Now , I am not try to say the mx2 world title is an easy championship , far from it , but he didn,t quite arrive in the US with some sort of huge reputation and hype about how he was going to walk all over the US guys .

That 250 2012 year in the US was a very tough class , it was Baggetts championship year and also included Tomac , Barcia , as well as Musquin , but Roczen came in and was bang on the pace from moto 1 .

Compare that to RV this year , who did arrive with a huge reputation and big expectations , but was not able to deliver to the same standard as Roczen did in his debut year , yet when any euro on here has the cheek to mention that , we get shot down , with excuses , such as -- you need time to learn the tracks , or he needs more time for his set up - I am sure you know them all as well as I do by now .

pilotdude wrote:

Pretty much every post you make here makes you out to be another shit-stirring, America-hating, lame-ass dickhead. Just another version of "The Sore" who should be...

Pretty much every post you make here makes you out to be another shit-stirring, America-hating, lame-ass dickhead. Just another version of "The Sore" who should be thrown out of here on his head.

Old chum.

Jose Espana wrote:

Ha Ha Ha , really old chum , you need to get out a bit more . Just do me one simple thing , please just...

Ha Ha Ha , really old chum , you need to get out a bit more .

Just do me one simple thing , please just quote me anything I have said that shows me to be anti American .

RV came to Europe and was disappointing , why the hell is it so hard for you guys to just accept that and take it for what it was .

joeellis wrote:

I understand your point regerding the 250 class, but the guys you name are still of similar age and weren't world champions or AMA champions at...

I understand your point regerding the 250 class, but the guys you name are still of similar age and weren't world champions or AMA champions at that point I don't believe. I could be wrong about that however. Ken was a world champion racing against Musquin, Herlings and the like is my point. You're taking this as I'm trying to detract from Ken's achievements. I'm not. He is obviously one of the top 5 or so riders in the world, at least in my mind.

All I'm trying to refer to is, Ken has had full seasons in Europe and in America. It is rather easy to weigh his accomplishments. RV only had a few races to adapt. It really isn't fair to compare the two. Both will more than likely go down as two of the greatest ever.

Jose Espana wrote:

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when...

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when he first came over to ride the nationals .

Yes , he was the current mx2 world champ , but the guys he beat to it were all really just kids , similar to him , even double mx2 champ Musquin had gone to the US by then and all the main guys we know today ( Cairoli , Desalle , Nagl etc ) had all moved up to mx1.

Now , I am not try to say the mx2 world title is an easy championship , far from it , but he didn,t quite arrive in the US with some sort of huge reputation and hype about how he was going to walk all over the US guys .

That 250 2012 year in the US was a very tough class , it was Baggetts championship year and also included Tomac , Barcia , as well as Musquin , but Roczen came in and was bang on the pace from moto 1 .

Compare that to RV this year , who did arrive with a huge reputation and big expectations , but was not able to deliver to the same standard as Roczen did in his debut year , yet when any euro on here has the cheek to mention that , we get shot down , with excuses , such as -- you need time to learn the tracks , or he needs more time for his set up - I am sure you know them all as well as I do by now .

joeellis wrote:

I'm only trying to look at these debates through unbiased glasses, but as we all know, everyone is at least a little biased, including myself. First...

I'm only trying to look at these debates through unbiased glasses, but as we all know, everyone is at least a little biased, including myself. First off, the title of this thread is "Villopoto???" and not "Roczen ???". That doesn't mean that other racers can't be mentioned in this thread. I haven't made nor will I make a derogatory remark about Roczen unless I really feel that he has done something to deserve it and to this point he hasn't.

I'd have to read back through the entire post to prove or disprove my next statement, but I really don't plan to. You are the only person on this thread that continues to talk about how RV has been unable to deliver to his standard compared to Roczen in his debut here. I don't agree with you. If you've watched RV the past couple of years, he has had crash and burns and not finished on the podium. Yes he has gone on to win championships, but he doesn't win every event and has his off races. I still contend that Ryan has not had enough opportunity to prove what he can accomplish in GP's. I don't think his results have been as bad as you're projecting. He did win one overall GP, probably same as Ken did in his first 4 events. He had a mechanical and he completely crashed out in his last event while being very much in contention, which was his fault, but not uncommon for RV. He had his fair share of crashes over here as well. The only difference is, The crash in the GP happened to be debilitating.

The point I'm trying to make is, you're judging RV's entire season of mediocrity on 4 events. One in which he didn't finish, so actually 3 events and 1 of those he won. I really feel that had the injury not occurred, RV would more than likely be in the top 5 in points now and quite possibly even higher. I believe he is that talented. That of course is my belief and that means nothing, because he is obviously not still racing.

This Euro vs. America thing is really getting old. I really believe many of the people on here are chiming in at times in jest to to pour fuel on the fire. For example, I find it hard to believe that any of these vitards really believed RV would go over and win every moto by 30 seconds. It was a joke. If not, maybe they need serious help.

Let's get the power's to be in this sport to build several tracks in Iceland. A third GP style, a third AMA style and a third SX style, bring the top 100 riders from around the world and have a series, then maybe we can resolve all the speculation.

joeellis wrote:

I'm only trying to look at these debates through unbiased glasses, but as we all know, everyone is at least a little biased, including myself. First...

I'm only trying to look at these debates through unbiased glasses, but as we all know, everyone is at least a little biased, including myself. First off, the title of this thread is "Villopoto???" and not "Roczen ???". That doesn't mean that other racers can't be mentioned in this thread. I haven't made nor will I make a derogatory remark about Roczen unless I really feel that he has done something to deserve it and to this point he hasn't.

I'd have to read back through the entire post to prove or disprove my next statement, but I really don't plan to. You are the only person on this thread that continues to talk about how RV has been unable to deliver to his standard compared to Roczen in his debut here. I don't agree with you. If you've watched RV the past couple of years, he has had crash and burns and not finished on the podium. Yes he has gone on to win championships, but he doesn't win every event and has his off races. I still contend that Ryan has not had enough opportunity to prove what he can accomplish in GP's. I don't think his results have been as bad as you're projecting. He did win one overall GP, probably same as Ken did in his first 4 events. He had a mechanical and he completely crashed out in his last event while being very much in contention, which was his fault, but not uncommon for RV. He had his fair share of crashes over here as well. The only difference is, The crash in the GP happened to be debilitating.

The point I'm trying to make is, you're judging RV's entire season of mediocrity on 4 events. One in which he didn't finish, so actually 3 events and 1 of those he won. I really feel that had the injury not occurred, RV would more than likely be in the top 5 in points now and quite possibly even higher. I believe he is that talented. That of course is my belief and that means nothing, because he is obviously not still racing.

This Euro vs. America thing is really getting old. I really believe many of the people on here are chiming in at times in jest to to pour fuel on the fire. For example, I find it hard to believe that any of these vitards really believed RV would go over and win every moto by 30 seconds. It was a joke. If not, maybe they need serious help.

Let's get the power's to be in this sport to build several tracks in Iceland. A third GP style, a third AMA style and a third SX style, bring the top 100 riders from around the world and have a series, then maybe we can resolve all the speculation.

mbha wrote:

Oiga José, como hablas tanto tonteras?? RV did just fine coming back from injuries, dialing in his bike, picking up the pace of Cairoli, Nagl, Desalle...

Oiga José, como hablas tanto tonteras??

RV did just fine coming back from injuries, dialing in his bike, picking up the pace of Cairoli, Nagl, Desalle and those guys racing at another pace than Dungey. He would have gotten some wins more and could very well win the MXGP title giving it another year.

I am from sweden and I honestly don't think I'm biased at all. I admire all riders in SX, AMA MX and the GP's, and I think
I have a decent picture of how they compare under different conditions.

pilotdude wrote:

Pretty much every post you make here makes you out to be another shit-stirring, America-hating, lame-ass dickhead. Just another version of "The Sore" who should be...

Pretty much every post you make here makes you out to be another shit-stirring, America-hating, lame-ass dickhead. Just another version of "The Sore" who should be thrown out of here on his head.

Old chum.

Jose Espana wrote:

Ha Ha Ha , really old chum , you need to get out a bit more . Just do me one simple thing , please just...

Ha Ha Ha , really old chum , you need to get out a bit more .

Just do me one simple thing , please just quote me anything I have said that shows me to be anti American .

RV came to Europe and was disappointing , why the hell is it so hard for you guys to just accept that and take it for what it was .

CBird81 wrote:

Are you for real? disappointing? he won a GP at his 2nd attempt... when he was ruled out by injury he was 1 of 2 guys...

Are you for real? disappointing? he won a GP at his 2nd attempt... when he was ruled out by injury he was 1 of 2 guys who had won a GP... after not racing for over a year!!! yeah, very disappointing.

Park Boys wrote:

Why are people comparing Roczen who came into the 250f class to RV who went straight to the top class? Huge difference, huge.

CBird81 wrote:

Are you for real? disappointing? he won a GP at his 2nd attempt... when he was ruled out by injury he was 1 of 2 guys...

Are you for real? disappointing? he won a GP at his 2nd attempt... when he was ruled out by injury he was 1 of 2 guys who had won a GP... after not racing for over a year!!! yeah, very disappointing.

Jose Espana wrote:

No shit Birdy , thanks for pointing that out .

Ryan Villopoto 2015 - "Veni, vidi, vici"

joeellis wrote:

"Don't worry about it Joe my old lad , I get it , its turned into another case of euro bashing , so your are just...

"Don't worry about it Joe my old lad , I get it , its turned into another case of euro bashing , so your are just keeping ranks with your forum buddies , that's cool !

You are a mess. Euro bashing? Really? Where have I Euro bashed? I'm pointing out how you're wrong about Villlopota.

But just before we call it a day on this , please do just take a look back over the last page or two of this thread and then tell me again that I am the ONLY one who has brought Roczen into it or has spoke about him . You say you don't plan to , so why have a pop at me then ?

I'm in no way taking a crack at you. Your head is up your Euro ass and you're assuming I'm saying something I didn't. This is what I said: You are the only person on this thread that continues to talk about how RV has been unable to deliver to his standard compared to Roczen in his debut here. I'm trying to explain to your dumb ass that I don't agree with you that RV's results have been so dissapointing. Now I took my first crack at you!

The fact that Roczens results ( and also JMB,s and Desalles ) prove otherwise , seem lost on some of you !

Again, I'm addressing RV's results. I have no qualm with Roczen the way you do with RV.

If you think , some of the clowns on here genuinely didn,t expect RV to win easily , and it was some sort of fiendish trick they were playing , then I am sorry to be the one to burst your bubble on that one ."

Lighten up. A joke and it surely worked on you.

Maybe your right ,maybe I am being too harsh on young Mr. Villopoto , and maybe he would have cleaned up during the second half of the season , but that's something we will now never know , so I will just form an opinion of his GP performance on the races that he did ride in , you know those things called results , they generally don't lie .

Again, RV's result in those few events weren't great, but you try to make it sound like he was lapped in every race.

Just to refresh your memory , as I know how you guys like to selectively forget things , Ryan started 8 motos and won 1 , and 6 of those motos where on what really could be classed as neutral tracks , so no advantage there for the regular GP boys.

You have me on that one. I meant events and said motos. 1 overall win and didn't finish his last event. Are we now clear on that?

Now just be honest for a single moment , do you genuinely think that 1 win out of 8 , is the type of return you expected from a riders of Ryans quality ?

I honestly had no expectations. Considering it was a significant change, I certainly didn't expect him to even win half the events he participated in.

I'm finished with your nonsense. You're arguing just to be arguing and trying to imply what my thoughts are. Peace out my friend!

Jose Espana wrote:

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when...

Don't forget Joe , we are not try to compare the Ken Roczen we all know today , we are talking about back in 2012 when he first came over to ride the nationals .

Yes , he was the current mx2 world champ , but the guys he beat to it were all really just kids , similar to him , even double mx2 champ Musquin had gone to the US by then and all the main guys we know today ( Cairoli , Desalle , Nagl etc ) had all moved up to mx1.

Now , I am not try to say the mx2 world title is an easy championship , far from it , but he didn,t quite arrive in the US with some sort of huge reputation and hype about how he was going to walk all over the US guys .

That 250 2012 year in the US was a very tough class , it was Baggetts championship year and also included Tomac , Barcia , as well as Musquin , but Roczen came in and was bang on the pace from moto 1 .

Compare that to RV this year , who did arrive with a huge reputation and big expectations , but was not able to deliver to the same standard as Roczen did in his debut year , yet when any euro on here has the cheek to mention that , we get shot down , with excuses , such as -- you need time to learn the tracks , or he needs more time for his set up - I am sure you know them all as well as I do by now .

RY4N37 wrote:

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability...

The majority of Europeans that go to America are French, and France has very good Supercross series which they grow up riding, hence the natural ability for Supercross. It's the same in Germany as well. The Netherlands has absolutely nothing that can come anywhere near being described as a SX, so you can understand Herlings not being as good as Musquin or Roczen right off the bat.

When was this anyway? 2011? The kid was like 16. It's not like this clip was recorded after he had been SX testing for months, maybe more like a day or 2.

Go to the Glen Helen GP, watch that kid ride, I guarantee you that you won't be able to come back to me on here and honestly say that you weren't impressed.

Alucard wrote:

Why it's so fucking hard to understand that in Europe, except for french riders, there isn't the SX culture? All the euro guys that did well...

Why it's so fucking hard to understand that in Europe, except for french riders, there isn't the SX culture? All the euro guys that did well in AMA SX from the start were already proficent with a background in it... It's a matter of opportunity, not talent, riders like Cairoli and Herlings, for example, would contend for SX titles if they had trained from the start in it, it's very simple... In Europe everything is focused on traditional MX...

DonM wrote:

You obviously weren't here when Kenny came over...every thread was about how Kenny was the greatest rider ever to throw a leg over a bike and...

You obviously weren't here when Kenny came over...every thread was about how Kenny was the greatest rider ever to throw a leg over a bike and how he was going to decimate every young american rider in the 250 class....and when he didn't the excuses started to fly....sound familiar?

joeellis wrote:

So Joe , just one last re cap , After all the toing and froing you have just finished with this statement Again, RV's result in...

So Joe , just one last re cap ,

After all the toing and froing you have just finished with this statement

Again, RV's result in those few events weren't great,

You see , we do agree after all !

No "Bull Runner" we don't agree unless you're admitting you're an asshole! As usual, you took part of what I said to try and prove your agenda. You can search every post I've ever made and the only Euro bashing you will find is me trying to communicate with the idiot you are. I can thankfully say, there are plenty of Europeans on here that are sensible. You are not in that group however.