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The question is: Is racing for the racers, the manufadcturers, or for the fans? I think that most would agree that Supercross, like NASCAR, is a "show" and as such, the Fans should get what they want. The racing and the experience of going to one just isn't as good as it was pre-4-stroke, and I think the attendance numbers back that up. NASCAR could put huge mufflers on the cars that would allow them to produce the same horsepower, but they know that would be suicide....people like the sound of Thunder. I've noticed that the NHL is quietly allowing fighting again, as the anti-fighting rules nearly made the sport extinct. I hope SX figures out what the fans want, and sooner than later.
I guess if the object is to make the bikes get around a track as fast as possible, they should maybe put them all on rails and propel them with electromagnets. Woo. Hoo. And why does Formula1 car racing stick with those screaming little finicky, peaky 20,000rpm turbocharged engines when they could just shoehorn in a big-block Chevy. Sure, they'd be heavier....but they'd hook up and everyone could drive them fast. Wow.
And if Technical Superiority is the goal and there is no regard for ease of maintenance and overhaul costs, then why aren't we using jet turbines or some sort of fusion-based powerplants? Turbos? Superchargers? Hell, the most R&D is going into electric power these days - let's go that route.
You want to make SX racing better? Tighten up the corners, tame the jumps and remove the whoops. Sure it will be boring for the top guys but it will be much tighter racing for the fans who by the way pay the bills.
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Bottom line is, people need to realize that unless you are trying to win a national championship, YOU DONT need one. We (the buyers) really are the ones who stopped production of the 2-stroke, not the ama. WE stopped buying them, so THEY stopped making them.
I have to admit, I grew up around two strokes, rode two strokes, except for the occasional XR and XT or TT dirtbikes, but the first time I heard a racing 426 on track, it was something new and yes, MEAN sounding!! You would here all these bees go by and then bass boom of the 426 or the 250F when it came on later, it was awesome!!
worcs - lol man-
its "funny" that you like KTMs, but dont mention they made a big comittment to developing and building the two strokes ,
and that is one of the big reasons they are the major player in woods racing..
KTM cant seem to keep the 2 stroke models they make in stock..
"funny" for those acting like its completyely "dead"
.
for a dead bike, in the mid west and east, you'll see more 2 strokes at any given HS race than anything else.
perhaps not in the west,,
anyone checked your local dealers sales of 4 strokes last year and this year?
a bet he is thrilled at the sales numbers..
i know the OEMs are.
of course they arnt selling 2 strokes ,few even offer them,
(how many new 09 YZ250's can you find and buy?
i bet i can sell everyone yamaha sends me,, what you like to wager?
the harsh truth is,, in general dirt bike sales,
nothing sold much last year, and less this year.. for your average local dealer.
we did decent on most dirt bikes actually, (but that wasnt the case for most dealerships i'm afraid) and we did great,,on a couple wacky two stroke models.
i certainly recognize that many of the OEM's arnt going to mass produce a
2 stroke bike now,
and certainly not in a climate were they cant even sell what they've marketed so hard for a several years in any quantity they'ed consider decent..
Honda did not even have a dealer convention this year,, first time in forever..
and only an online "intro" of the *hottest new thing*.. in their dirtbike world.?
I bet it was because they were expecting untold thousands of 09 CRF450R sales right?
if your logic is that the public quite buying them (2 strokes)
so the OEMs stopped making them..
thats hard to debate, its true!!
(now wether marketing, hype, or truly a better mousetrap did it, is the debate?)
but i'm looking at a few green red and yellow, EFI 08/09 models sitting here ,
that based on sales, they may not make anymore either..
so ultimately,
you're right.
i just wouldnt gloat much about it
with what the OEMs are selling world wide,
expect less models offered in any engine configuration.
i don't really see that as anything positive.
The future of the sport has to be less expense and less risk. It has to be two strokes on tracks with few do-or-die obstacles or it's going to be some very lean times coming up. In most economic downturns, there are some parts of the world that are doing well and some parts that aren't, so factories still have some areas where sales are normal - in this case, no parts of the world are doing very well, and that is going to go on for a year or two; and during that time, motorcycle sales are going to be very poor. Just like normal people cut back on luxuries and figure out how to cut spending to core functions only, motorcycle manufacturers are going to do the same thing - and if they're warehousing a bunch of '09 CRF450Rs that cost a lot to build and have low markup, they may decide to make the '010 CRF450R a BNG year, make very few of them, and if things don't turn around, maybe not build any '011s at all.
as far as in the realm of just dirt bikes, the US is such a large percentage of the world market that it really drives the models made ,how many etc.
i'm not all gloom and doom.. even though my post may have come off that way...lol
certainly stepping up, not back.
i have several new bikes to release,in the near future ,
and yeah mostly 2 stroke.
KX250AF and AFX version (as well as a 300 model)
RM250AF and AFX version (as well as 300 model)
i'll likely toy with the idea of ordering up all the new parts and
putting the nice 96/ or 01 CR250 engine i nthe 09 CRF250R (and X) chassis
just for fun..
and release a big bore yamaha..
YZ300
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycles___FAST-KAWASAKI-KX250-DIRTBI…
If the financial Gods smile upon me, I'll be on your build list.
The bikes you build, are proof-positive that there is still a market for building 2-strokes with the latest chassis and suspension technology.
thanks and yes it will be on a new RMZ250 chassis.
while kind of known for 2 strokes,
I do build 4 stroke models as well when i see a niche market..
I think an RM250AF (or 300) would be a great handling bike,and great all around bike for many riding situations.
thats just me.. we'll see how it goes..
in the meantime , its fun stuff ?
I still ride/race a 2001 YZ250.
Back to the OP.......why would a professional rider put himself at a huge disadvantage and attempt to race a 2 smoker?
I love two-strokes, I truly do. I raced them for many years and well past the point when everyone else switched to the thumper. The fact is that the AMA and other sanctioning bodies adopted these rules packages and have put the 2-strokes at large competitive disadvantage. Unless things are brought back closer to equal, no one will be willing to handicap themselves just for fun's sake. It may already be too late.
Once Yamaha built the first YZFs and were immediately competitive at only 400cc, it was realized 550cc was too high at the displacement rule was lowered to 450cc at the end of the 2002 season. (Remember the pack of 540cc KTMs in '02 that ran really strong with Dowd, Cooper, Carpenter, etc?)
MMmMmmmmmmmm
Pit Row
Funny thing, I rode KTM's all year in the WORCS and a Honda in the Baja. In WORCS races the 300 was my bike of choice. It is freaking soooo easy to ride. The biggest drawback is the fast courses like Hangtown and Taft where a 300 flat sucks and where the 505 rocks. In BAJA there really is no other choice but Honda.
Deciding what to ride in 09 was pretty easy there had to be a contingency paying two stroke in the line up... Ultimately it was a no brainer and I am now getting adjusted to what a razor sharp handling bike with a yellow front fender feels like.
The industry needs 5K to 6K dirtbikes and Japan needs to wake up and give the market RM300's, YZ300'S and KX300's. We need normal guys to see 2 strokes can be fun and cool. You can forget about Honda ever making another two stoke. That's their corporate philosophy and there sticking to it! (AJ ask them to sell you CR250 bottom ends and add a over bore cylinder!) There of course is a manufacture already making a great 300 two stroke and I have been begging the guys at KTM to add what i think would be great seller for them:
A KTM 300SX. They just don't think it would sell. I say they are wrong.
Lumpy700.
Since i was an AMA congressman for a long time
(and still a district prez)
The "historonics" of how the modern 4 stroke rules and regs went down get revised with every post and year
Yamaha did NOT, build a production bike that first year that met criteria.
remember this was a time of the "production rule"
The came to the AMA basically begging to let Doug ride their new prototype,
despite it not being production, or meeting criteria,
allowances were made so that they could run it ,
in hopes of developing the 4 stroke,
(now if you buy the eco friendly line, please get in a time machine and truthfully test emissions on dougs race bike, and then on any of the other 250's lined up at a nat that same year..lol)
to me th ewhole thing was incredibly ODD,
since the AMA had for years waved the sound issue flag !!!
.. less sound=more ground. add campaignes etc etc.
it was a HUGE issue and the yknew it.
and they knew very well that the new high strung breed of 4 strokes ,if allowed ,
would certainly not go in a quieter direction.
(and if they regulated them , it would kill thier development as much as displacement)
Yamaha asked for , and got, allowences that no other factory did that year.
quite ironiocally, (since it was a 400)
Since this is the same Yamaha that (and suzuki) cried to the AMA to get rid of the open class , since they dint make a bike for it.
perhaps look into who the AMA board of trustees where at those times , and the advisery committee of OEMs then Follow the money....?? just sayin...
Listen to all Yamaha fans (hey i'm a yamaha dealer as well)
I certainly dont blame Yamaha for fanagaling things to help them in thier race programs and overall sales.That ssmart business!
but they certainly did plenty of *fanagaling* .or whatever you'd like to call it..
lol
it was not just a case of
"they where smarter than everyone else and saw a opening in the rule book"
So are you saying Yamaha manipulated people, rules & governing bodies to make more money and to f**k with the consequences to the sport ?
i'm not intentionally singling them out
there's plenty of conspircey theories out there on lots of things lol
just the case in point, I feel they had just a bit more to do with it, than what was posted here.. but hey i'm just another silly opinion ,on the I'net, of all places
Especially since 250f's can race against 450's in sx.
2. I"m all for a regional/support class but it would be hard to do with 125's because they do not get imported. 250f & 250t for regional sx and the ax series.
3. A 350ish Japanese two stroke would be the berries. There has been a few threads about this on here and one option right now that someone posted:
Buy a ktm250sx and put the 300exc top end on it. I"m not sure of the compatibility but they said it would work. I would kill for a cr 300 motor in the new crf chassis.
so yes ,
if i made enoiugh of them! it wouldnt be a problem.
the rule is really there, to insure timely availibilty.
if honda/yam/kaw/sux have that many bikes and that may parts in th ewharehouse to mee tthe rule,,and we have th eabilty to purchase the mas adaler and to remanufactur ethe minthe time frame, desgnated
it meets the AMA's requirements (at least to them it always has),
(as a franchised dealer, ,i dont have to wharehouse the parts if Honda
for example already is , and they are availible to me,or to th customer. )
its more a matter of bike allotment.
Post a reply to: Someone pleeeese field a 2-stroke rider in SX!