(*)Vital 2 Stroke Community ain't helping the cause...

TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/22/2015 1:37pm
3/22/2015 1:37pm
Still haven't comprehended what was said.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/22/2015 1:59pm
3/22/2015 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 4:05pm
I know about homologation and the necessity to get bikes moved off the showroom floors. The problem is that 2-strokes will never again make it into the AMA. They were dealt a death blow in 06, and there was never any intent by the AMA to let them ever compete again, . No amount of sales will compel the OEMs to seek parity in AMA Pro Racing, or updating their current models for the consumer. People keep saying there's a "cause" but there is none. What am I missing?
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 3/22/2015 2:02pm
3/22/2015 2:02pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Yesterday, while out riding, I had a talk with a young man that's an accomplished rider, tester, photographer and writer. He IS a fan of 2-Strokes...
Yesterday, while out riding, I had a talk with a young man that's an accomplished rider, tester, photographer and writer. He IS a fan of 2-Strokes. As am I. I've got a KX500SR stashed in my office that is simply Awesome and I have a '78-'79 CR250R (FIM-RC conversion) that's kinda silly cool, too (Thanks Newman!).

We were talking about New Bikes, Homologation, the Rules for the Nationals & SX...etc.

We got back to the discussion of 2-storkes and the people responsible for/promoting/making them at the OEM's... namely the ones that make current 2-strokes...and how the sales aren't in tune with what is "said" on the forums.

The most notable issue: The number of units sold and the needs for homologation (400). You know those "$1000 off KTM 2-Strokes"? Those hold-over YZ's standing right next to the New '15s on the showroom floor? Well, those are indicative of the simple fact that they AREN'T moving in the numbers that some people think.

That means people AREN'T BUYING THEM.

So, to revisit the obvious:

1. You can't homologate without a certain number of units.
2. You can't get the company to allow you to import a bunch of '15s when there's still plenty of '14s in Inventory (The dilemma for the guys at Yamaha and KTM, USA that're fighting for YOUR cause)
3. 4-Strokes are winning; because, that's what people ARE BUYING.
4. Better sales would fund MORE R&D. Period.
5. Where's all the "I put my money where my mouth is!"?

If you're going to scream about some sort of conspiracy?
If you're going to blame the OEMS?
If you've got a point?

PROVE IT. Buy SOMETHING.

Bring'em Back!



* "Vital 2 Stroke Community " is utilized due to the simple fact that this is the home of the Vital 2-Stroke crowd, you know: The guys that've thrown everyone and everything UNDER THE BUS...from the AMA, MX Sports, Honda to the companies that're still making the bikes in question.
burn1986 wrote:
The idea that if we buy up all the NEWWWWWWW 2-strokes then the OEMs will completely change their tune has to be the #1 STUPIDEST, most...
The idea that if we buy up all the NEWWWWWWW 2-strokes then the OEMs will completely change their tune has to be the #1 STUPIDEST, most completely RETARDED thing that has ever come across this forum!

I'll tell you what TeamGreen, get in touch with the factories and find out exactly what the sales number is that will make the Big4 all of the sudden change every word they have ever said about hating 2-strokes. None of the OEMs want them back NO MATTER HOW MANY ARE SOLD!!

****NEWSFLASH****
There is NO salesnumber, NO cause, NO 2-STROKE REVOLUTION!
TeamGreen wrote:
Your inability to grasp what was said is so hilarious that I got a call about your post and was told to take a look just...
Your inability to grasp what was said is so hilarious that I got a call about your post and was told to take a look just so I could have a laugh.

Well, I did.

On a serious note: you really did miss what was said and implied.

Edit: thanks for the name calling and whinefest. You sound kinda Bithchy. I'd take the time to retaliate; but, you know what Mark Twain said...
He probably thinks Mark Twain is a country singer. Just sayin.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/22/2015 2:37pm
3/22/2015 2:37pm
burn1986 wrote:
The idea that if we buy up all the NEWWWWWWW 2-strokes then the OEMs will completely change their tune has to be the #1 STUPIDEST, most...
The idea that if we buy up all the NEWWWWWWW 2-strokes then the OEMs will completely change their tune has to be the #1 STUPIDEST, most completely RETARDED thing that has ever come across this forum!

I'll tell you what TeamGreen, get in touch with the factories and find out exactly what the sales number is that will make the Big4 all of the sudden change every word they have ever said about hating 2-strokes. None of the OEMs want them back NO MATTER HOW MANY ARE SOLD!!

****NEWSFLASH****
There is NO salesnumber, NO cause, NO 2-STROKE REVOLUTION!
TeamGreen wrote:
Your inability to grasp what was said is so hilarious that I got a call about your post and was told to take a look just...
Your inability to grasp what was said is so hilarious that I got a call about your post and was told to take a look just so I could have a laugh.

Well, I did.

On a serious note: you really did miss what was said and implied.

Edit: thanks for the name calling and whinefest. You sound kinda Bithchy. I'd take the time to retaliate; but, you know what Mark Twain said...
nytsmaC wrote:
He probably thinks Mark Twain is a country singer. Just sayin.
He thinks I'm trying to start a campaign to get the 2T back...or I'm trying to cause an argument; hence, I'm a "Moran".

Meanwhile, I'm simply trying to get the believers to understand the reality and change it...or not.

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A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/22/2015 2:57pm
3/22/2015 2:57pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 2:59pm
I think this entire "bring back the two stroke" chant is simply a reason for old men to sit at home and complain as apposed to going out and riding.
Two-strokes have not gone anywhere and you can still buy and race them. Considering very few of you rely on contingency and most tracks have a 125 class as well as a two-stroke only class nothing is stopping you from racing them.

It really feels like the two-stroke gang is the "hipster" group in our sport. No reason for them to be complaining because you can cleary still race and ride a two stroke.
newmann
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newmann 3/22/2015 3:35pm
3/22/2015 3:35pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 3:38pm
A. DLeary wrote:
I think this entire "bring back the two stroke" chant is simply a reason for old men to sit at home and complain as apposed to...
I think this entire "bring back the two stroke" chant is simply a reason for old men to sit at home and complain as apposed to going out and riding.
Two-strokes have not gone anywhere and you can still buy and race them. Considering very few of you rely on contingency and most tracks have a 125 class as well as a two-stroke only class nothing is stopping you from racing them.

It really feels like the two-stroke gang is the "hipster" group in our sport. No reason for them to be complaining because you can cleary still race and ride a two stroke.
Oh, I think the 2 stroke group is far from the "hipster" johnny come lately 4 strokers.

I think AJ from Service Honda blew a few holes in the 2 strokes aren't selling theory when he pointed out that 4 strokes aren't moving either. He seems to sell quite a few 2 strokes. Damn shame a 4 stroke sale gets chalked up every time one goes on the operating table.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/22/2015 4:00pm
3/22/2015 4:00pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 4:01pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Your inability to grasp what was said is so hilarious that I got a call about your post and was told to take a look just...
Your inability to grasp what was said is so hilarious that I got a call about your post and was told to take a look just so I could have a laugh.

Well, I did.

On a serious note: you really did miss what was said and implied.

Edit: thanks for the name calling and whinefest. You sound kinda Bithchy. I'd take the time to retaliate; but, you know what Mark Twain said...
nytsmaC wrote:
He probably thinks Mark Twain is a country singer. Just sayin.
TeamGreen wrote:
He thinks I'm trying to start a campaign to get the 2T back...or I'm trying to cause an argument; hence, I'm a "Moran". Meanwhile, I'm simply...
He thinks I'm trying to start a campaign to get the 2T back...or I'm trying to cause an argument; hence, I'm a "Moran".

Meanwhile, I'm simply trying to get the believers to understand the reality and change it...or not.

Well, I don't think you're a moran, but you're original post caught me off guard and I reacted without first giving myself a chance to get my thoughts straight. So I apologize for my stupid name calling.

I still feel that you're argument is off, and is not the correct view of 2-stroke fans on Vital.
#991
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#991 3/22/2015 4:24pm
3/22/2015 4:24pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 4:28pm
A. DLeary wrote:
I think this entire "bring back the two stroke" chant is simply a reason for old men to sit at home and complain as apposed to...
I think this entire "bring back the two stroke" chant is simply a reason for old men to sit at home and complain as apposed to going out and riding.
Two-strokes have not gone anywhere and you can still buy and race them. Considering very few of you rely on contingency and most tracks have a 125 class as well as a two-stroke only class nothing is stopping you from racing them.

It really feels like the two-stroke gang is the "hipster" group in our sport. No reason for them to be complaining because you can cleary still race and ride a two stroke.
newmann wrote:
Oh, I think the 2 stroke group is far from the "hipster" johnny come lately 4 strokers. I think AJ from Service Honda blew a few...
Oh, I think the 2 stroke group is far from the "hipster" johnny come lately 4 strokers.

I think AJ from Service Honda blew a few holes in the 2 strokes aren't selling theory when he pointed out that 4 strokes aren't moving either. He seems to sell quite a few 2 strokes. Damn shame a 4 stroke sale gets chalked up every time one goes on the operating table.
I have 2x 125 Alloy frame conversions. A 2013 and a 2014 so there's 2 more chalked up to 4T sales.

If I go to a public track I get surrounded. I took one to a race meet not long ago. There were so many people around my bike that I just walked away.
Noticed my mates wife was missing. She was standing security Laughing

Everyone wants one! Only reason there aren't thousands more out there is because most people just don't have the time or the $$ to get one.

The Japs are blind if they can't see the huge demand for new generation 2T's and the amount of potential $$ they're missing out on. KTM must be pissing themselves. And they say nothing comes free in life. Hmmmm.

TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/23/2015 8:24am
3/23/2015 8:24am
nytsmaC wrote:
He probably thinks Mark Twain is a country singer. Just sayin.
TeamGreen wrote:
He thinks I'm trying to start a campaign to get the 2T back...or I'm trying to cause an argument; hence, I'm a "Moran". Meanwhile, I'm simply...
He thinks I'm trying to start a campaign to get the 2T back...or I'm trying to cause an argument; hence, I'm a "Moran".

Meanwhile, I'm simply trying to get the believers to understand the reality and change it...or not.

burn1986 wrote:
Well, I don't think you're a moran, but you're original post caught me off guard and I reacted without first giving myself a chance to get...
Well, I don't think you're a moran, but you're original post caught me off guard and I reacted without first giving myself a chance to get my thoughts straight. So I apologize for my stupid name calling.

I still feel that you're argument is off, and is not the correct view of 2-stroke fans on Vital.
I know it's a lot of scrolling; but, if ya grab a coffee & read thru the whole thread, there's an evolving analogy and discussion of the industry & the market.

The oft-missed positive point is that enough New 2Ts are selling to keep a couple of the big manufacturers in the game & the product IS seeing improvements.

After riding all the KTM & Husky 2Ts, I'm thinking that a well set-up 300 is the best all-around Dirt-Bike avail for the average guy...& a well set-up 200 is so much fun that you should have to pay a Fun-Tax.

So, actually, I may be a Moran; 'cause, I don't own one...yet!

I blame it on the Pacificos and Don Julio.
Toste
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Toste 3/23/2015 9:02am
3/23/2015 9:02am
burn1986 wrote:
Well, I don't think you're a moran, but you're original post caught me off guard and I reacted without first giving myself a chance to get...
Well, I don't think you're a moran, but you're original post caught me off guard and I reacted without first giving myself a chance to get my thoughts straight. So I apologize for my stupid name calling.

I still feel that you're argument is off, and is not the correct view of 2-stroke fans on Vital.
In your defense, it is generally considered bad forum etiquette to call out a poster (or set of posters) in a new thread topic.

GuyB even says as much in our posting rules:

"Topics about a specific poster, topics about the posting habits of others are generally lame."

TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/23/2015 9:41am
3/23/2015 9:41am
burn1986 wrote:
Well, I don't think you're a moran, but you're original post caught me off guard and I reacted without first giving myself a chance to get...
Well, I don't think you're a moran, but you're original post caught me off guard and I reacted without first giving myself a chance to get my thoughts straight. So I apologize for my stupid name calling.

I still feel that you're argument is off, and is not the correct view of 2-stroke fans on Vital.
Toste wrote:
In your defense, it is generally considered bad forum etiquette to call out a poster (or set of posters) in a new thread topic. GuyB even...
In your defense, it is generally considered bad forum etiquette to call out a poster (or set of posters) in a new thread topic.

GuyB even says as much in our posting rules:

"Topics about a specific poster, topics about the posting habits of others are generally lame."

Again, read it. Then reflect on the common discussion about the various engine types and their popularity & "following"...their implied demise, limited availability, non-presence in US Pro-Events (they're certainly alive & well...in Enduro-X!) & "who killed the 2-stroke" essays.

"...ain't helping the cause..."

This was reflection on an ongoing discussion.
cslacker
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cslacker 3/23/2015 9:53am
3/23/2015 9:53am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2015 9:54am
Eddie_E wrote:
If you perfected your suspension design 10 years ago, why would you still change it? Seriously though, the forks on the YZ were top secret factory...
If you perfected your suspension design 10 years ago, why would you still change it?
Seriously though, the forks on the YZ were top secret factory Yamaha A-kit stuff in 2004. If you mean the motor, then you haven't ridden one that was properly jetted. All of the Japanese engineers had freely admitted in 2007 that they spent the previous 3 years making their 250 2 stroke more like the YZ250 engine. It's still a great bike even if the only recent changes are cosmetic, what do you feel NEEDS to be changed that would actually make it ride better? The only things I can think of would be a #8 throttle slide instead of the #7 and possibly an adjustable power valve. Maybe 22mm offset triple clamps?

I don't think that changing something to something else, just to say you changed stuff should be the standard for what's good and what isn't.
I agree the yz is good as is. I don't believe I made any suggestions as to what should be changed. The only statement I made is that for sales to increase it needs changes/updates. Look at the entire 4 stroke market. It can be argued that most of the "upgrades" that have been done to the bikes over the past 6-7 years have not necessarily created a better bike. What they have created is an atmosphere where people want the latest and greatest.

If you really want my opinion on the yz though I can say that for the average person some form of FI/DI would be best. For someone like yourself (since you mentioned the #8 slide) I am guessing swapping brass is not an issue to get the bike running properly. For the average Joe however, hearing their bikes bog and smoke at the track is pretty painful to hear/watch. Also broadening the power delivery further with a touch more top end and overrev would work great for the yz. It could also use the newer 250f swingarm and shed a few pounds. To be honest I'm not a huge fan of the ergonomics of that bike and it's aluminum frame either.

Don't get me wrong, it is a great bike in it's current form. But to try and say it is perfect and cannot be developed or refined further is questionable.

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