Are neck braces outta here?

MotoX85
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MotoX85 3/13/2015 7:47am
3/13/2015 7:47am
MotoX85 wrote:
I'm not mentioning names but there are "some" notable trainers that are telling their riders to take them off. Take that info however you want.
ML512 wrote:
One of them throws them across the parking lot and yells at people.
How come nobody is prodding you for your source
Grieby54
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Grieby54 3/13/2015 7:57am
3/13/2015 7:57am
Congratulations, MotoX85 - You officially own the last page of this thread. Let me go grab your plastic trophy...
KennyT
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KennyT 3/13/2015 7:59am
3/13/2015 7:59am
They seem to be as popular as ever amongst the younger riders. The riders whose parents are trying their best to offer their loved ones as much protection as possible.

Also seems to me since they were introduced years ago we have not heard of as many riders being parylized. For awhile there it seemed like we were losing many to catostrophic injuries. Maybe that is why David Bailey spoke so highly of the benefits of the next brace. I am done with MX racing but if I or my children were still on the track there would be no doubt that we would be wearing them
MotoX85
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MotoX85 3/13/2015 8:09am
3/13/2015 8:09am
Grieby54 wrote:
Congratulations, MotoX85 - You officially own the last page of this thread. Let me go grab your plastic trophy...
Huh?

The Shop

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Kartwheel84c 3/13/2015 8:31am
3/13/2015 8:31am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2015 8:32am
I'm 47 and I still wear my original Leatt from '07, but I will probably get an Atlas soon. I didnt start wearing one because Windham or Millsaps wore one, and I wont stop wearing mine because Chad or anyone else took theirs off. At the same time, I do not wear a chest protector, I never have and I never will. I wear what I choose to wear and have for 43 years, I dont want Wasatch or anyone else telling me what I have to wear because THEY think I should wear it.

Motocross83 3/13/2015 8:42am
3/13/2015 8:42am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2015 8:44am
I have one of the original Leatt's but lately Iv'e been put off the idea of it because the support part of the brace rests against my upper spine (as in the above pic). The Atlas model on the other hand seems to use the riders shoulders instead, so I'll probably switch to that at some point. I still believe it as a concept though and I refuse to ride (when I get the chance...) without one.
Kartwheel84c 3/13/2015 9:05am
3/13/2015 9:05am
Same here, I am not switching to Atlas because of who wears it, or because I dislike the Leatt brand. Leatt has changed their design some with the split rear support and the sides are lower profile, but I like the way the Atlas is made without the latches on both sides, and most importantly the Atlas seems to fit me better.
cmx152
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cmx152 3/13/2015 9:06am
3/13/2015 9:06am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2015 9:10am
I wear an original leatt. Last year I took a spill over the bars on a fair size jump, I landed face 1st in the dirt with the bike right on top of me. I had scuff marks on my face from my goggles and helmet I hit so hard and every time I stood up for the following 4 months the room literally spun. I also had a pain in my back directly where my neck brace would of impacted, I mentioned it at
the docs but they never really seemed too bothered by it. Am I lucky it saved my neck or lucky it didn't snap my spine?!

The fucker of it is even though I saved my neck and back, the bike hit my leg so hard it damaged a nerve and paralysed my lower leg Pinch

Luckily that's recovering very slowly but it's less than ideal

I don't think there is a right or wrong with neck braces, they just change probable outcomes. They may cause damage themselves and they may stop damage from happening that would of otherwise
Racer142
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Racer142 3/13/2015 9:29am
3/13/2015 9:29am
1st post on vital so stay with me. I'm not for or against neck braces in general I just know they don't work for me. My problem is they don't absorb energy they simply transfer it to another area. People keep using the Hans device as an example but they are totally different. The Hans works so well because the people wearing them are also in roll cages designed to take that impact and they are in racing bucket seats with 5 point harnesses with their helmet buckled to the device. Modern cars are even designed with crumple zones that are made to absorb energy and keep the passenger compartment intact. None of this is possible in motocross. You can't tell me that putting a direct line from my helmet to my back is going to save my spine without it having some sort of crumple zone itself to absorb the energy otherwise it's simply going to move the energy somewhere else which I believe is why we see the collar bone injuries. Even 6d understands this which is why everybody is raving about their helmet design and others are trying to copy it because it has a built in method to actually absorb the impact. Everybody has a friend that swears they were either saved or harmed by a neck brace as do I but I truly don't believe in them but I would never try to convince someone to not wear one if they trust it.
Motocross83 3/13/2015 9:49am
3/13/2015 9:49am
I guess at that point the thought process is one of where you'd rather be injured. I personally would much rather shattered my shoulder blades or collar bones in two (even with an increased risk of doing so), than sustain any sort of injury to my spine.
A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/13/2015 10:17am
3/13/2015 10:17am
This research done by LEATT and independently reviewed and signed by Proffesor Vaughn, and Dr. Peldschus who acknowledge the credibility of the work is the most scientific research/proof we have at the moment. Argue anyway you want, but it's the best we currently have to go off.

http://www.leatt-brace.com/product_uploads/lab_docs/LEATT_WHITE_PAPER_F…
peelout
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peelout 3/13/2015 10:27am
3/13/2015 10:27am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2015 10:27am
level wrote:
Was it just a trend? Don't see them at all anymore on the pros come to think of it.
GuyB wrote:
At all?

Off the top of my head...Canard, Baggett, Anderson, Musquin, Barcia, and Wilson.
he said pros GuyB, it's called reading comprehension bro, try it some time.
GuyB
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GuyB 3/13/2015 10:39am
3/13/2015 10:39am
peelout wrote:
he said pros GuyB, it's called reading comprehension bro, try it some time.
Yeah, sorry.
usafwx
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usafwx 3/13/2015 11:13am
3/13/2015 11:13am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2015 11:33am
SF45 wrote:
RV wears one
TMV wrote:
Would he still be wearing it if he was paid half he's paid to wear it? Weimer used to wear one when he was Villopoto's teammate...
Would he still be wearing it if he was paid half he's paid to wear it?

Weimer used to wear one when he was Villopoto's teammate in the Monster Kawasaki team which was sponsored by ATLAS, this year he's not anymore, guess what...

https://instagram.com/p/0CDFmGntli/
SF45, Sorry, realized was already addressed (RV being a stakeholder). I know I run into this as well. I took my Atlas off for the last few races of the season and I feel like I was looser on the bike. But at the same time I do think it also gives me confidence having it on that if I do bite it it hopefully won't be as bad as not having one on. But again I've heard of orthos recommending against them and then some supporting them. Just too much all over the place to make a 100% decision. I have an Atlas Air on preorder, will give it another shot this season. Honestly the flexibility thing is kinda silly. For instance one would argue knee braces are a waste because you should be more flexible with them off, but let me tell you after multiple partial tears and a PCL full tear from not wearing one I will never ride without mine. Its give and take, sure the human body was designed to take a fall and has certain reactive natures/instincts but the human body also wasn't designed to be flying off dirt bikes either.
rjs
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rjs 3/13/2015 11:21am
3/13/2015 11:21am
usafwx wrote:
SF45, Sorry, realized was already addressed (RV being a stakeholder). I know I run into this as well. I took my Atlas off for the last...
SF45, Sorry, realized was already addressed (RV being a stakeholder). I know I run into this as well. I took my Atlas off for the last few races of the season and I feel like I was looser on the bike. But at the same time I do think it also gives me confidence having it on that if I do bite it it hopefully won't be as bad as not having one on. But again I've heard of orthos recommending against them and then some supporting them. Just too much all over the place to make a 100% decision. I have an Atlas Air on preorder, will give it another shot this season. Honestly the flexibility thing is kinda silly. For instance one would argue knee braces are a waste because you should be more flexible with them off, but let me tell you after multiple partial tears and a PCL full tear from not wearing one I will never ride without mine. Its give and take, sure the human body was designed to take a fall and has certain reactive natures/instincts but the human body also wasn't designed to be flying off dirt bikes either.
True, RV loved the Atlas product and program so much he wanted a small piece of the company rather than get paid to wear it. Atlas does not pay him one penny to wear it.
SEE ARE125
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SEE ARE125 3/13/2015 11:55am
3/13/2015 11:55am
rjs wrote:
True, RV loved the Atlas product and program so much he wanted a small piece of the company rather than get paid to wear it. Atlas...
True, RV loved the Atlas product and program so much he wanted a small piece of the company rather than get paid to wear it. Atlas does not pay him one penny to wear it.
Or it could be because his buddy created the Atlas brace....
Motocross83 3/13/2015 11:57am
3/13/2015 11:57am
"You're assuming it worked if you broke your collarbones?"

Not necessarily, no. I'm just giving it my best guess and ultimately making a choice etc. Until we have some in-depth scientific research, that's all any individual can really do on the matter of wearing one vs not. My response was basically aimed at the post of Racer142 (not in a negative way), and this sentence especially "You can't tell me that putting a direct line from my helmet to my back is going to save my spine without it having some sort of crumple zone itself to absorb the energy otherwise it's simply going to move the energy somewhere else which I believe is why we see the collar bone injuries". As I said at the start of this post, I have no idea if that's true or not. But on the assumption that it is (and for now it does seem logical - after all that energy does have to go somewhere) then the decision does "potentially" come down to a choice of decreasing the risk of injury in one place at the expense of increasing it elsewhere.
GuyB
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GuyB 3/13/2015 12:06pm
3/13/2015 12:06pm
rjs wrote:
True, RV loved the Atlas product and program so much he wanted a small piece of the company rather than get paid to wear it. Atlas...
True, RV loved the Atlas product and program so much he wanted a small piece of the company rather than get paid to wear it. Atlas does not pay him one penny to wear it.
SEE ARE125 wrote:
Or it could be because his buddy created the Atlas brace....
I'm going to suggest that the other poster knows more of the back story than you do.

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SEE ARE125
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SEE ARE125 3/13/2015 12:19pm
3/13/2015 12:19pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2015 12:23pm
rjs wrote:
True, RV loved the Atlas product and program so much he wanted a small piece of the company rather than get paid to wear it. Atlas...
True, RV loved the Atlas product and program so much he wanted a small piece of the company rather than get paid to wear it. Atlas does not pay him one penny to wear it.
SEE ARE125 wrote:
Or it could be because his buddy created the Atlas brace....
GuyB wrote:
I'm going to suggest that the other poster knows more of the back story than you do.
Not disputing what he said, just got my additional info from this VitalMX/Atlas Brace video with RV. 1:47 mark he talks about how he's known them for a long time and used to race with them. Also, again at the 4:08 mark.

Kbach
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Kbach 3/13/2015 1:10pm
3/13/2015 1:10pm
TMV wrote:
One of yours Steve? That pic is awesome!
GuyB wrote:
Yep...from rider intros at Daytona last weekend.
Not bad for a polaroid! Smile

Good chatting with you in Daytoner
Racer142
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Racer142 3/13/2015 3:06pm
3/13/2015 3:06pm
Motocross83 wrote:
[i]"You're assuming it worked if you broke your collarbones?"[/i] Not necessarily, no. I'm just giving it my best guess and ultimately making a choice etc. Until...
"You're assuming it worked if you broke your collarbones?"

Not necessarily, no. I'm just giving it my best guess and ultimately making a choice etc. Until we have some in-depth scientific research, that's all any individual can really do on the matter of wearing one vs not. My response was basically aimed at the post of Racer142 (not in a negative way), and this sentence especially "You can't tell me that putting a direct line from my helmet to my back is going to save my spine without it having some sort of crumple zone itself to absorb the energy otherwise it's simply going to move the energy somewhere else which I believe is why we see the collar bone injuries". As I said at the start of this post, I have no idea if that's true or not. But on the assumption that it is (and for now it does seem logical - after all that energy does have to go somewhere) then the decision does "potentially" come down to a choice of decreasing the risk of injury in one place at the expense of increasing it elsewhere.
That is my line of thinking. Like I said if you believe that you broke your shoulder/collar bone instead of your neck then i encourage you to wear one but if you don't believe that as I don't then how can somebody try to make me wear one? Simply stated at this moment I think neck braces as currently designed are good idea/bad follow through. I don't have the engineering background to improve upon the design but I think they would be much better if they were cheaper and designed to be thrown away after crash with something like a crumple zone that crushes and absorbs energy instead of transferring that energy to another area. Just like 6d is offering with their replacement liners after a big crash.
blowin_trannys 3/13/2015 3:17pm
3/13/2015 3:17pm
My understanding is that the brace is to prevent spinal compression, not prevent your neck from bending. They type of crash it is designed for is one where is will press the helmet strait onto to so the force get transferred into the brace rather then into the spine. You literally have to lawn dart, which is very different then contacting the front back or sides, in which completely different forces are in action
JM485
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JM485 3/13/2015 3:46pm
3/13/2015 3:46pm
blowin_trannys wrote:
My understanding is that the brace is to prevent spinal compression, not prevent your neck from bending. They type of crash it is designed for is...
My understanding is that the brace is to prevent spinal compression, not prevent your neck from bending. They type of crash it is designed for is one where is will press the helmet strait onto to so the force get transferred into the brace rather then into the spine. You literally have to lawn dart, which is very different then contacting the front back or sides, in which completely different forces are in action
If I am correctly informed that is exactly the type of crash that no brace can protect you from. I believe it was in a Dirtrider article that they discussed this and Leatte made it clear no neck brace will protect against direct neck compression.

Also, for those saying they simply transfer force, I don't think that is entirely correct. It seems like the braces are designed to flex when contacted by the helmet, rather than be a rigid block. Obviously not all force can be consumed by the brace, and will thus be transferred elsewhere, but the amount of force transferred will be reduced. At least that is how I understand it, someone more involved with braces please correct me if I'm wrong.
Twist1
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Twist1 3/13/2015 4:08pm
3/13/2015 4:08pm
Excluding minors, it's cool to snap your neck. Chicks dig it. Chest protectors are questionable too, and wearing that under the jersey roost protector is like saying "uncle", before the gate even drops,
Torco1
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Torco1 3/13/2015 4:21pm
3/13/2015 4:21pm
I wore one for a few years, until I found out they cause cancer......I probably shouldn't have been eating the plastic off it, but still.......
Lawrence929 3/13/2015 6:37pm
3/13/2015 6:37pm
They will work better in certain kinds of wrecks.
They will work worse in certain kinds of wrecks.

Which one are you planning on having today when you snap on that Russian Roulette wheel?


As for Mini parents,

the kid in a Leatt looks great from the side of the track. A good $400 and up helmet that actually works?

I don't see nearly as many of those as I want to.
moremoremore 3/13/2015 8:11pm
3/13/2015 8:11pm
Kartwheel84c wrote:
I'm 47 and I still wear my original Leatt from '07, but I will probably get an Atlas soon. I didnt start wearing one because Windham...
I'm 47 and I still wear my original Leatt from '07, but I will probably get an Atlas soon. I didnt start wearing one because Windham or Millsaps wore one, and I wont stop wearing mine because Chad or anyone else took theirs off. At the same time, I do not wear a chest protector, I never have and I never will. I wear what I choose to wear and have for 43 years, I dont want Wasatch or anyone else telling me what I have to wear because THEY think I should wear it.

'they' tell you you have to wear helmet, boots and goggles dont they?Wink

nice husky btw i had the black tank 79 390, fun bike to race, a little hard to turn thoughCool

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