Mx and the economy

G-man
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Mesa, AZ, USA
10/30/2008 8:04am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:02pm
The last two weeks the AZOT Club has raced at ET MotoPark and SpeedWorld. We piggyback on their race schedule but are not affiliated with any track or their local membership. That’s part of the beauty of racing with us—you get to race on ALL THE TRACKS and not just a couple.

That said I must say the turnouts have been low for the local racing scene and I know they MUST appreciate the additional 30 or so members we bring along with family and friends.

Everything said in this post is unfortunately true. Trying to keep up with the Jones’s has put people in debt and now they are paying the piper. I’ve always raced on a shoe-string budget pulling my 2 rail trailer behind an old van. When I was at Loretta Lynn’s in 04 I can honestly say I was the only one in the pits with this setup. I couldn’t believe the rigs these people have to accommodate little Johnny and his fleet of 60’s. Matter of fact when I was talking to Mama Walker (RIP) I asked her what the biggest changes were in all the years of coming to LL’s. She mentioned pick-up trucks to lil Johnny and his fleet of 60’s and big rigs to transport them and she had seen it all. The whole Walker Family is what Motocross is about and I am so glad to have met them.

The true Love and Beauty of the sport seems to be dying fast as now it’s all about $$ and deadly SX inspired tracks. I feel really fortunate to have raced in the glory years of the late 70’s when bike changes were huge and just racing with you’re buddies and the camaraderie was what it was all about. Now 30 years later my close friends and I try to do the same thing. Matter of fact after the races were over and the bench racing had commenced and we had a few cold ones we walked the freaken track! lol How cool is that?

I have learned to appreciate this sport much more in my twilight years as I know my days are numbered and try to soak it all in. Racing motocross at the tender age of 50 is not something I take for granted. The guys that load up immediately after a race to jet home are missing the boat imo.

Sorry for rambling but to answer the question YES the economy has affected this sport.

Dirtysmile56
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Bend, OR, USA
10/30/2008 9:16am
I completely agree with you guys on a lot of these points, but I have to say that right now is a great time to take advantage of all the stupidity out there. Late model used bikes(04,05,06) are far better than bikes of ten years ago and far cheaper, they run incredibly well in stock form. I picked up an 05 CRF250 literally brand new from a girl who bought it new , rode it once then parked it, she pulled it out of the garage and threw it on craigslist for $3,000, I offered her $2,000 cash and she bit. I'm still wearing my 3 year old Thor gear that I picked up on Motosports discount page and a new M2R going out business blowout $99(formerly $299) helmet and I'm in business. I've been carpooling to practice days with a few buddies to split the fuel and here we are back in business for about as cheap as it was back in the early nineties(or less) and spanking , yes spanking ,lots of people on brand new $7,000 dollar set ups with my bone stock $2,000 05 250f. Lets not forget that motocross is far more about the rider than the absolute latest greatest in accessories.

So yes, I agree that if you want to have all the latest gear,bikes, doodads then you're going to be in the poorhouse, but if you refrain from the consumer mania and think about it, you can have this great sport for a song. I personally would rather save as much as possible on equipment and pay a little more to the family that pours their heart and soul into a good facility(track) because without good tracks we no longer have a sport. If you can't afford to pay track fees ,then join a moto club and get involved, then your cost to ride becomes just about free and you can have direct influence on the final product(track) that you ride.


Gosh I had way too much coffee this morning.
The Rock
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HAIKU, HI, USA
10/30/2008 1:27pm
The only thing I agree with is that four strokes are expensive and that noise levels being lowered are ten years too late.

However this talk about MX being a dying sport is premature.

Saying MX is an elitist sport is off base IMO. When's the last time any of you has hung out with your buddies at a local race?

Saying the sport is run by dummies is extremely negative and a slap in the face to MX Sports in particular. Before any of you start pounding nails in MX's coffin give MX Sports a season or two to bring about changes.

SX had great crowds last year and I am looking forward to next season big time.

There's rumors more than one manufacturer will be bringing back some two strokes. Those of you that want to bash the sport go right ahead but don't count me in.
The Rock
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10/30/2008 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2008 1:49pm
"The true Love and Beauty of the sport seems to be dying fast as now it’s all about $$ and deadly SX inspired tracks"


Excellent point about SX inspired tracks.

The injury factor threatens the sport more so than the economy ever could. I would love to see a complete season of racing on retro SX tracks like A2 was this year and see the National as well as amateur tracks all toned down.


The Shop

Cygnus
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10/30/2008 1:37pm
I am having a GP this weekend . I'll let you know on Monday .
JustMX
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10/30/2008 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:03pm
Rock,

I am not talking about the Nationals so my comments have very little to do with MX Sports,

I am talking about grass roots, entry level racing, which is suffering.

The AMA screwed up giving the fourstrokes twice the displacement and not doing anything about the noise. Both have had an incredibly negative affect on our sport.

There has always been a lot of churn in this sport but even though supercross attendance is up new riders are almost nonexistent and a lot of riders that have been racing for some time are having to stop because of the expense and hassle is forcing them out.

Does it matter if there are still full gates at Loretta Lynn's if there are less than 10 total 50cc riders at most Local races?

Does it matter if you and your buddies have to drive twice as far to ride because your favorite riding area closed either because of fighting noise issues or because income doesn't even cover overhead anymore?

rocrac
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10/30/2008 1:50pm
Adam43
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WF
10/30/2008 2:20pm
The Rock wrote:
The only thing I agree with is that four strokes are expensive and that noise levels being lowered are ten years too late. However this talk...
The only thing I agree with is that four strokes are expensive and that noise levels being lowered are ten years too late.

However this talk about MX being a dying sport is premature.

Saying MX is an elitist sport is off base IMO. When's the last time any of you has hung out with your buddies at a local race?

Saying the sport is run by dummies is extremely negative and a slap in the face to MX Sports in particular. Before any of you start pounding nails in MX's coffin give MX Sports a season or two to bring about changes.

SX had great crowds last year and I am looking forward to next season big time.

There's rumors more than one manufacturer will be bringing back some two strokes. Those of you that want to bash the sport go right ahead but don't count me in.
Not to parrot JustMX's great response, but no one here is talking about Pro MX. While that faces its own set of challenges, its currently in much better shape than local racing. Pro MX is probably the only type of racing organization that will always be around in some aspect, because its the elite level and has entertainment value.

MX IS becoming an elitist sport, not because people don't talk to each other. It's elitist because the costs to participate have spiraled out of control for the average family.

The sport IS run by dummies, I'm sorry. It wasn't always this way, but in last dozen years or so the AMA has introduced a variety of short-sighted changes. Unfortunately, these were also adopted by almost all other sanctioning bodies in the world also. The major failings are in 4 stroke displacement formulas, noise, safety regulations, and class advancement structure.

Manufacturers aren't going to build and develop two strokes again until the class structures change enough for them to be the preferred bike, and people recognize their value.
AMA714
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San Antonio, TX, USA
10/30/2008 2:42pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:03pm
MX and the Economy......

With any luck at all the land owners of our MX tracks are not upside down on their mortgages and will be able to survive the recession!!! My fear is that with more people complaining about the cost of our sport they are also not going to join a club or facility to keep it going and we will be left with fewer places to ride. If we think Motocross needs to get back to its roots, we need to look inside our own sport and help support it.

I for one am going to hold off on buying a pipe for my bike and will spend that money to have a membership at a track so I can have a place to ride. I like most racers love the competition of racing but will travel less and ride my home track giving back to the club that gives me a track to ride...

I dont think this sport is elitist, it has alway been expensive compared to other sports. Our inflation is on par with most consumer items. But for pure racing...MX is still cheap compared to cars, road bikes or boats.

Do I think its smart to spend 4 grand on a 150 over an 85....No way. But we keep buying 4 strokes so they keep building them!!
Moto East Mag
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Arlington, VA, USA
10/30/2008 2:45pm
i don't know what tracks you guys are hanging out in terms of "elites." I make new friends every time i go to the track. You gotta give a little to get a little.
Last race we shared our pressure washer, food, and first aid supplies with everybody around us. Some wind blew over my canopy when i was racing and someone set it back up and secured it for me. Someone else offered to watch to watch my canopy overnight at the track while I went off to a hotel so I had a spot the next morning.
The kids I know all hang together, challenge each other and push each other. Yeah, there are a few brats but most mx'ers I know are kids that stay in line (so they can race).
Maybe because I race mostly in places like West Virginia and Pa. where there is much less focus on the bling...

The only thing that sucks is my local track tolerating idiots with open pipes when they are being threatened with being shut down over noise. Freaking two strokes putting around the track in second gear with an open pipe...ridiculous.
englishman
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England, GB
10/30/2008 2:45pm
Pro MX is going in the wrong direction as well - at least in Europe. Loungo / Srband his cronies just had a little get together and Srb said among other things:

"It is clear that if we want our sport to reach a new level, touch new fans and bring new riders it is fundamental to go to all the growing economical markets all over the world, aside from the USA and Europe the countries that sell the most bikes are China, India, Indonesia, Australia, Brazil and many other Asian countries.
Looking at the Formula1 and MotoGP calendars we see clearly the tendency and direction of the future. It is our duty to follow the development of the world motorcycle market and give the possibility to fans from all over the world to not only be able to follow our sport on TV, internet and via magazines but also to give them the possibility to be present at the events".


So what does that mean ?? It means it'll go the way of F1 where unless Daddy is dripping in cash and willing to throw as much of it at little boy wonder as it takes you might as well not waste your time.

I believe that this long standing fixation people have with taking MX "Mainstream" will be the undoing of our sport in the long run.

vet954
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USA
10/30/2008 2:56pm
This is a great thread. Lets try to keep it non pro mx/sx because that really does not matter to those of us who keep this sport alive.
The latest transworld mx has a great spread on what the companies spend on the pros. 170 jerseys, 120 pairs of gloves, 200 pairs of gogles, and this is per season. Guess who is paying for this? YOU!
I am happy with 2 jerseys, 2 pair of gloves, and one pair of gogles for 60 motos per year.

Amature motocross is going down hill fast and there is nobody doing anything about it.

The AMA is all we had and they have done nothing for the past 20 years to protect our right to ride. There has not been one varifable instance of the AMA keeping a motocross track open more less opening new facilities.

Personally I think the big 5 and the sx/mx promoters ( live nation and mx sports) have the responsibility to promote and expand this sport. If they want to sell bikes they have to provide the means for people to buy and use them.

Live nation and mx sports thinks that the people attending the events are drawn from the local public. Bullshit. 90% of those in attendance race or ride motocross.

As far as the 09 mx changes are concerned I better be able to show up saturday and race sunday or I am never attending another mx national (just like my past 5 year sx boycot). 2 days of abuse is more than enough.
Sonny
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10/30/2008 3:19pm
The Rock wrote:
The only thing I agree with is that four strokes are expensive and that noise levels being lowered are ten years too late. However this talk...
The only thing I agree with is that four strokes are expensive and that noise levels being lowered are ten years too late.

However this talk about MX being a dying sport is premature.

Saying MX is an elitist sport is off base IMO. When's the last time any of you has hung out with your buddies at a local race?

Saying the sport is run by dummies is extremely negative and a slap in the face to MX Sports in particular. Before any of you start pounding nails in MX's coffin give MX Sports a season or two to bring about changes.

SX had great crowds last year and I am looking forward to next season big time.

There's rumors more than one manufacturer will be bringing back some two strokes. Those of you that want to bash the sport go right ahead but don't count me in.
MX SPORTS??? Do you think we are discussing the pro level?? We are talking about the Average Joe in NESC, District 6, MSC, PAMX, Michigan Mafia - (AKA) Amateur Motocross. Should I give 2 craps if Reed gets his asking price or if Red bull takes Stewart back? They are not the MX consumers, they are the takers.
Honestly, I couldn’t care less if Villipoto needs to sell heroin in Seattle or if Jessica Patterson has to turn tricks to pay for a fresh top end. We didn’t slap the face first, the big 5 did.
rocrac
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10/30/2008 4:32pm
The industry is not getting my $25,000-$30,000 next year. They can all kiss my hiney for the reasons above. The AMA, MX sports, the big five, greedy promoter's (the national amateur ones) after market companies all of them.

I will keep up my subscription to Vitaldrive though.
twizzler
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10/30/2008 4:45pm
You sound bitter...doh!
twizzler
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10/30/2008 4:55pm
If the trend continues, there will only be 10 guys per class on the gates for pro SX/MX. And only maybe 3 riders per class on a local race gate. Oh wait, some area races already only have 3 riders on a given gate!
WORCSRacer
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10/30/2008 5:07pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2008 5:09pm
No where is it written that this is the sport is for everyone.
-eagle-
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10/30/2008 8:32pm
Local mx problems not related to the economy:
To many classes.
Not nearly enough track time.
Dumb obstacles that scare off vets/beginners and smart mini parents.
To many races in one area at the same time. -All get low turnouts, spread to thin.

rocrac
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10/30/2008 9:17pm
twizzler wrote:
You sound bitter...doh!
Really it was a poor attempt at humor but honestly some local races around here only have 3 A riders on the line. Sad really.
sc961
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10/31/2008 6:12am
Sean, I think you can thank MX sports and the AMA for the numbers on A class turnouts locally. When it's more important to stay in B class for the prestige of LL's, and then the AMA falls in line by not moving anyone from B to A last year and probably for 2009 as well.

Our rider participation was down at the tracks between 15% and 25% over the 2008 season. I think most of that down fall is attributed to fuel prices and a failing contractors market. There are many other determining factors, but those are the two key areas.

That $4.00 a gallon fuel made a difference in where we went and how often.....
justme
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Southern Texas, TX, USA
10/31/2008 7:04am Edited Date/Time 10/31/2008 7:09am
I do believe fuel/economy has slowed down the mx scene (amateur) somewhat but not as much as expected for 08. Alot of racer/family, and this is just my op, will cut back somewhere else in order to be able to race on weekends. It is all about the $$ anymore in mx it is not a cheap mans sport like years past. I have a feeling that the sport will be harder hit in 09 when things hit the fan. I see the racers cutting back to a point where mx will have to take a back seat to the ever troubling economy down the road. Now get out and buy that $8,000.00 race bike before the next season or it just might be up to $9,500.00 by then and have fun while it feesable to do so and tracks are still open. It's snowmobile time soon. The AMA is losing ground to unsanctioned events more every year. They can either sleep right through this mess or wake the hell up and get their poop together. I am not betting on the latter.
slowvet
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10/31/2008 7:22am
Shitters full.
Trinitite
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10/31/2008 7:57am
The price of a new bike is just insane anymore, but at least gas prices are coming down (for the moment).

2.49 here
Deetsmx
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Visalia, CA, USA
10/31/2008 9:20am
People are making less money and bikes cost more money to buy and to repair. Throw in the extra cash people need to shell out for gas and it's no wonder people are riding less. Why not limit 4-strokes to vet classes and go back to 2 strokes in the non-age classes? I've seen more and more 2 strokes lately at the tracks again and I'm sure there's a reason. Also, can we get rid of all the different classes and put more age groups together so there are a total of 10-15 classes instead of 32 so we can get in more than 4 laps and actually have some people to race against. I think they need to focus more on ability than on age. Do we really need a +30, +35, +40 or all the different classes for 50's, 60's, and 80's just so people can say they got a trophy even though there were 3 guys in their class. This is the system they use in Belgium and every time you line up to the gate it's full and they get large turnouts at all the races. Not to mention you know what time your race and practice starts every week for a whole season because they have a lot less classes so it allows them to be on a schedule and stick to it. These are just some ideas that I have to try and bring back some of the luster of racing locally.
lumpy790
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10/31/2008 10:00am
Motodave wrote:
I am just asking an opionion. Do you guys think with the falling economy here in the us and the fact that nascar teams are finding...
I am just asking an opionion. Do you guys think with the falling economy here in the us and the fact that nascar teams are finding it very hard to find sponsors to pay for everything.http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2008/10/18/sports/doc48f9a905c4763215566777.txt.. Would our big sponsors in sx,mx end up pulling out.
Sorry I just dont get it..............Read the 1st post! This started as a Sponsors in Pro racing pulling out but quickly turned into ............. just another........ those evil 4 stroke threads.

If you do not like 4 strokes....do not buy one.
If you want to be competitive......buy one.

I still ride my 2001 YZ250 and routinely pull holeshots on 4 strokes.
-eagle-
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10/31/2008 10:17am
Deetsmx nailed in on the classes. The LL's mania is to blame for the classes. MX Sports gets rich for having a million classes. Imagine what EACH class pulls through area's and regionals. I wish the classes weren't as "specific" for non area or regional qualifiers.
twizzler
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10/31/2008 10:25am
This is fact, although it may not be common everywhere or with everyone.

But I bought my first new mx bike in 86' for $1,600 (it was a leftover previous year model). I made $8/hr at my job at the time.

Nowadays 22 yrs. later, I know 17 yr. old kids that STILL make $8/hr and new leftover model bikes are $5,500.

10/31/2008 10:35am
twizzler wrote:
This is fact, although it may not be common everywhere or with everyone. But I bought my first new mx bike in 86' for $1,600 (it...
This is fact, although it may not be common everywhere or with everyone.

But I bought my first new mx bike in 86' for $1,600 (it was a leftover previous year model). I made $8/hr at my job at the time.

Nowadays 22 yrs. later, I know 17 yr. old kids that STILL make $8/hr and new leftover model bikes are $5,500.

you nailed that one on head...crazy just to look at the numbers and know they are true.

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