Reed vs, Canard, an important point to ponder

GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 1/22/2015 10:56am
1/22/2015 10:56am
GrapeApe wrote:
I always thought it was proper to verify the underlying facts before spouting off and calling someone a liar, no?
newmann wrote:
Journalism at its finest. Deserves major award. [img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61BlPAHxk6L._SY355_.jpg[/img]
Journalism at its finest. Deserves major award.


Looks fra-gee-lay, definitely Italian.
Big E
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Big E 1/22/2015 10:57am
1/22/2015 10:57am
newmann wrote:
This thread is going places! [img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k35/Breffner/GIF/02.gif[/img]
This thread is going places!

Newmann, this made my day!
GuyB
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GuyB 1/22/2015 10:59am
1/22/2015 10:59am
Big E wrote:
Newmann, this made my day!
Me too...especially after seeing the original.
HRD-Motosports 1/22/2015 11:10am
1/22/2015 11:10am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2015 11:11am
who the fuck cares what Cocks said, nothing with change and thats it. period.

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huck
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huck 1/22/2015 11:11am
1/22/2015 11:11am
Big E wrote:
Newmann, this made my day!
GuyB wrote:
Me too...especially after seeing the original.
Cannonball dookie!!!
newmann
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newmann 1/22/2015 11:12am
1/22/2015 11:12am
For shits sake people, all of you pissing and moaning about Gallagher, where were all of you in the past when the AMA was lying, cheating and stealing from the members, wasting $750,000.00 of members money on a frivolous lawsuit, pissing away millions fighting a dumb helmet law, when they pissed away who knows how much going up against Ruger, when the board members were getting tossed in prison, when they dry fucked the 125 class into extinction, when they punted Reed, Stewart and others for trivial amounts of lead leeching from the solder in a gas can or for the numerous other stupid calls they've made over the years?

Are we supposed to act like this is something new? The dumb just continues to flow. Is Gallagher no longer associated with the AMA? Is he only a rep for the FIM now? Is there a notable difference in the level of intelligence between the AMA and the FIM?

Nerd going to make people eat crow....lmao. He was just late to the dumb party.
newmann
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newmann 1/22/2015 11:14am
1/22/2015 11:14am
newmann wrote:
This thread is going places! [img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k35/Breffner/GIF/02.gif[/img]
This thread is going places!

Big E wrote:
Newmann, this made my day!
Glad I could be of help Big E!Smile
Big E
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Big E 1/22/2015 11:26am
1/22/2015 11:26am
Big E wrote:
Newmann, this made my day!
GuyB wrote:
Me too...especially after seeing the original.
Can you share?
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 1/22/2015 11:28am
1/22/2015 11:28am
Sully22 wrote:
I can't believe more of you guys don't have issue with an official placed in a position of power overreacting, making a rash decision and then...
I can't believe more of you guys don't have issue with an official placed in a position of power overreacting, making a rash decision and then possibly lying about it. . Then again, we live in a nation where people in power do shitty things all the time and everyone shrugs and say....oh well, that's just the way things are. No wonder things are so inconsistent. This situation was and is an obvious and blatant abuse of power, but oh well, it's over, nothing we can do, let's just move on.....
GrapeApe wrote:
SullyTwoTwo, I think most people have an issue with an official abusing his power. Is that what happened in this case, though? Over the past week...
SullyTwoTwo, I think most people have an issue with an official abusing his power. Is that what happened in this case, though? Over the past week I have heard people make a compelling argument that the punishment was justified. I have also heard equally reasonable people make a compelling argument the punishment did not fit the crime. That's the point, reasonable minds can, and will, differ. You may not like the outcome, but that doesn't make it an absolute abuse of power. Your guy just got the short end of this decision, and you understandably don't like it.
Nerd wrote:
Truth be told, Trey Canard is one of two racers whom I consider to be an actual friend - not just an acquaintance. If I had...
Truth be told, Trey Canard is one of two racers whom I consider to be an actual friend - not just an acquaintance. If I had a bias, it would be for Trey. That's not to say Trey has any dog in this fight, but I would be more likely to think Reed did something really bad because he did it to Trey, if I had a bias.

The official did order the black flag before the replay was shown. And I plan on proving that this weekend.
That's exactly how confirmation bias works.....

A truly objective person probably would have said that they were going to try to find out the truth, but you've just proven that you're only interested in evidence that supports your set belief.

Tail wagging the dog.
newmann
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newmann 1/22/2015 11:32am
1/22/2015 11:32am
Big E wrote:
Newmann, this made my day!
GuyB wrote:
Me too...especially after seeing the original.
Big E wrote:
Can you share?
Let's just say it isn't fire shooting out of his ass. But considering this is a shit thread anyway...hmmmmm.
huck
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huck 1/22/2015 11:33am
1/22/2015 11:33am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2015 11:33am
Big E wrote:
Newmann, this made my day!
GuyB wrote:
Me too...especially after seeing the original.
Big E wrote:
Can you share?
It was on tosh.0 and considering the direction of this thread...it's kind of appropriate.

https://youtu.be/q51L4icPa0s
Nerd
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Nerd 1/22/2015 11:37am
1/22/2015 11:37am
GrapeApe wrote:
SullyTwoTwo, I think most people have an issue with an official abusing his power. Is that what happened in this case, though? Over the past week...
SullyTwoTwo, I think most people have an issue with an official abusing his power. Is that what happened in this case, though? Over the past week I have heard people make a compelling argument that the punishment was justified. I have also heard equally reasonable people make a compelling argument the punishment did not fit the crime. That's the point, reasonable minds can, and will, differ. You may not like the outcome, but that doesn't make it an absolute abuse of power. Your guy just got the short end of this decision, and you understandably don't like it.
Nerd wrote:
Truth be told, Trey Canard is one of two racers whom I consider to be an actual friend - not just an acquaintance. If I had...
Truth be told, Trey Canard is one of two racers whom I consider to be an actual friend - not just an acquaintance. If I had a bias, it would be for Trey. That's not to say Trey has any dog in this fight, but I would be more likely to think Reed did something really bad because he did it to Trey, if I had a bias.

The official did order the black flag before the replay was shown. And I plan on proving that this weekend.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's exactly how confirmation bias works..... A truly objective person probably would have said that they were going to try to find out the truth, but...
That's exactly how confirmation bias works.....

A truly objective person probably would have said that they were going to try to find out the truth, but you've just proven that you're only interested in evidence that supports your set belief.

Tail wagging the dog.
I have plenty of evidence. I just haven't seen the video with my own two eyes. That will change Saturday.
GuyB
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GuyB 1/22/2015 11:39am
1/22/2015 11:39am
Big E wrote:
Newmann, this made my day!
GuyB wrote:
Me too...especially after seeing the original.
Big E wrote:
Can you share?
Be careful what you ask for...
Big E
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Big E 1/22/2015 11:41am
1/22/2015 11:41am
GuyB wrote:
Be careful what you ask for...
...um yeah. Newmann is right.
douglasredding 1/22/2015 11:50am
1/22/2015 11:50am
Nerd wrote:
Given the evidence, which I've supplied, what I think actually happened with the official is this: I think it's possible that, even if it's subconscious, he...
Given the evidence, which I've supplied, what I think actually happened with the official is this:

I think it's possible that, even if it's subconscious, he has some guys who he views as being quick to anger, dirty, etc. Given how he ruled against Reed at Phoenix in 2010, my feeling is that Reed is one of these guys to him. And considering where the tower was that he was standing in (just off the right side of the track on the outside of the first turn), what he saw was Reed looking at Trey, bumping Trey, and the way Trey went off the track, it likely looked to this official as if Reed hit him really, really hard. Because from where he was, my bet is that he couldn't/didn't see that Trey had taken his left hand off the bar at exactly the wrong time.

And I believe he ruled right that moment to give Reed the black flag, believing that Reed absolutely punted Trey off the track.

But I don't think he hit Trey very hard in actuality, and I think if Trey had both hands on the bars, he wouldn't have gone down.

Then, after the race, he told journalists that he saw the replay prior to making the ruling in order to cover his butt.

Ultimately, I believe this particular official makes too many of these kinds of errors, and it's obvious that he's not learning from them. This official is actually a really nice guy, and by all accounts, he's a good person, but I don't think he's cut out for that job.
↑↑ this ↑↑

As much as I usually disagree with Steve, this is exactly the conclusion I've come to.

It was a knee-jerk decision based on previous bias for the particular rider.

Seems to me, if the same exact incident happen between Millsaps and Canard, I do not think Millsaps would have been black flagged. Fined and/or spoken to after the race, but not black flagged.

Doug
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500guy 1/22/2015 12:10pm
1/22/2015 12:10pm
Nerd
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Nerd 1/22/2015 12:10pm
1/22/2015 12:10pm
douglasredding wrote:
↑↑ this ↑↑ As much as I usually disagree with Steve, this is exactly the conclusion I've come to. It was a knee-jerk decision based on...
↑↑ this ↑↑

As much as I usually disagree with Steve, this is exactly the conclusion I've come to.

It was a knee-jerk decision based on previous bias for the particular rider.

Seems to me, if the same exact incident happen between Millsaps and Canard, I do not think Millsaps would have been black flagged. Fined and/or spoken to after the race, but not black flagged.

Doug
Redding is a smart guy.

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Sully22
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Sully22 1/22/2015 12:21pm
1/22/2015 12:21pm
Sully22 wrote:
I can't believe more of you guys don't have issue with an official placed in a position of power overreacting, making a rash decision and then...
I can't believe more of you guys don't have issue with an official placed in a position of power overreacting, making a rash decision and then possibly lying about it. . Then again, we live in a nation where people in power do shitty things all the time and everyone shrugs and say....oh well, that's just the way things are. No wonder things are so inconsistent. This situation was and is an obvious and blatant abuse of power, but oh well, it's over, nothing we can do, let's just move on.....
GrapeApe wrote:
SullyTwoTwo, I think most people have an issue with an official abusing his power. Is that what happened in this case, though? Over the past week...
SullyTwoTwo, I think most people have an issue with an official abusing his power. Is that what happened in this case, though? Over the past week I have heard people make a compelling argument that the punishment was justified. I have also heard equally reasonable people make a compelling argument the punishment did not fit the crime. That's the point, reasonable minds can, and will, differ. You may not like the outcome, but that doesn't make it an absolute abuse of power. Your guy just got the short end of this decision, and you understandably don't like it.
Who's made a compelling case for the black flag, and I'm talking current or former pros, media, or industry folks, not vital members? I've seen one rider, Joey savatgy, agree w the black flag.
JBlain619
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JBlain619 1/22/2015 12:25pm
1/22/2015 12:25pm
Nerd wrote:
Given the evidence, which I've supplied, what I think actually happened with the official is this: I think it's possible that, even if it's subconscious, he...
Given the evidence, which I've supplied, what I think actually happened with the official is this:

I think it's possible that, even if it's subconscious, he has some guys who he views as being quick to anger, dirty, etc. Given how he ruled against Reed at Phoenix in 2010, my feeling is that Reed is one of these guys to him. And considering where the tower was that he was standing in (just off the right side of the track on the outside of the first turn), what he saw was Reed looking at Trey, bumping Trey, and the way Trey went off the track, it likely looked to this official as if Reed hit him really, really hard. Because from where he was, my bet is that he couldn't/didn't see that Trey had taken his left hand off the bar at exactly the wrong time.

And I believe he ruled right that moment to give Reed the black flag, believing that Reed absolutely punted Trey off the track.

But I don't think he hit Trey very hard in actuality, and I think if Trey had both hands on the bars, he wouldn't have gone down.

Then, after the race, he told journalists that he saw the replay prior to making the ruling in order to cover his butt.

Ultimately, I believe this particular official makes too many of these kinds of errors, and it's obvious that he's not learning from them. This official is actually a really nice guy, and by all accounts, he's a good person, but I don't think he's cut out for that job.
douglasredding wrote:
↑↑ this ↑↑ As much as I usually disagree with Steve, this is exactly the conclusion I've come to. It was a knee-jerk decision based on...
↑↑ this ↑↑

As much as I usually disagree with Steve, this is exactly the conclusion I've come to.

It was a knee-jerk decision based on previous bias for the particular rider.

Seems to me, if the same exact incident happen between Millsaps and Canard, I do not think Millsaps would have been black flagged. Fined and/or spoken to after the race, but not black flagged.

Doug
I agree whole-heartedly agree with both responses above. Even though Steve and I have had our differences in the past, even up to the point I wanted to beat the shit out of him, Steve is spot on. I'm actually looking forward to reading what he finds out this weekend.

I do have a question to GrapeApe though...can you please cite who you are referring to when you said you "Over the past week I have heard people make a compelling argument that the punishment was justified."??? Everyone that I've talked to, read, or heard in interviews from respectable people in this industry contradict this. They think it's just as dumb, emotional, and knee jerk as Steve does!
Sully22
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Sully22 1/22/2015 12:36pm
1/22/2015 12:36pm
JBlain619 wrote:
I agree whole-heartedly agree with both responses above. Even though Steve and I have had our differences in the past, even up to the point I...
I agree whole-heartedly agree with both responses above. Even though Steve and I have had our differences in the past, even up to the point I wanted to beat the shit out of him, Steve is spot on. I'm actually looking forward to reading what he finds out this weekend.

I do have a question to GrapeApe though...can you please cite who you are referring to when you said you "Over the past week I have heard people make a compelling argument that the punishment was justified."??? Everyone that I've talked to, read, or heard in interviews from respectable people in this industry contradict this. They think it's just as dumb, emotional, and knee jerk as Steve does!
Exactly! What I find compelling is not even the guy on the receiving end of the nudge has said Reed deserved the black flag. All I've seen is some vital posters, known Reed haters, say this was the right call. The point people are trying to make is regardless of the name on the back of the jersey (and that's what's vitally important here), this was a stupid, boneheaded, inconsistent, knee jerk decision that has no place in the sport and the guy unilaterally making the decision has a past with the name on the jersey....and while there is a past, that should never come into play because Reed was not on probation for this type of riding or anything for that matter.
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Nerd 1/22/2015 12:59pm
1/22/2015 12:59pm
Sully22 wrote:
Exactly! What I find compelling is not even the guy on the receiving end of the nudge has said Reed deserved the black flag. All I've...
Exactly! What I find compelling is not even the guy on the receiving end of the nudge has said Reed deserved the black flag. All I've seen is some vital posters, known Reed haters, say this was the right call. The point people are trying to make is regardless of the name on the back of the jersey (and that's what's vitally important here), this was a stupid, boneheaded, inconsistent, knee jerk decision that has no place in the sport and the guy unilaterally making the decision has a past with the name on the jersey....and while there is a past, that should never come into play because Reed was not on probation for this type of riding or anything for that matter.
My bet is that Trey wouldn't answer the question either way because it's inconsequential.

He's smarter than I am when it comes to things like that. Smile
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Grieby54 1/22/2015 1:14pm
1/22/2015 1:14pm
Nerd wrote:
My bet is that Trey wouldn't answer the question either way because it's inconsequential. He's smarter than I am when it comes to things like that...
My bet is that Trey wouldn't answer the question either way because it's inconsequential.

He's smarter than I am when it comes to things like that. Smile
I imagine you're right about your first point. Trey carries himself in a way that we could all learn a thing or two...
douglasredding 1/22/2015 1:46pm
1/22/2015 1:46pm
Nerd wrote:
Redding is a smart guy.
Still waiting for you to say that when I disagree with you, Cox.

Ps., I saw you at A2. I had just walked out of the tunnel during B or C 250 qualifying and you were talking to someone at the TLD tent, or...hell, I don't remember. I was going to say "hey" but then I remembered there were Monster Energy girls in hot tubs and cold beer on the other side of the pits.

I'll let you buy me a beer at A3,

Doug
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machine 1/22/2015 2:20pm
1/22/2015 2:20pm
Nerd has a lonnnggg history of having an issue with authority and hates cops, this does not surprise me one bit...what a joke. Grow the hell up...
Sully22
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Sully22 1/22/2015 2:24pm
1/22/2015 2:24pm
Sully22 wrote:
Exactly! What I find compelling is not even the guy on the receiving end of the nudge has said Reed deserved the black flag. All I've...
Exactly! What I find compelling is not even the guy on the receiving end of the nudge has said Reed deserved the black flag. All I've seen is some vital posters, known Reed haters, say this was the right call. The point people are trying to make is regardless of the name on the back of the jersey (and that's what's vitally important here), this was a stupid, boneheaded, inconsistent, knee jerk decision that has no place in the sport and the guy unilaterally making the decision has a past with the name on the jersey....and while there is a past, that should never come into play because Reed was not on probation for this type of riding or anything for that matter.
Nerd wrote:
My bet is that Trey wouldn't answer the question either way because it's inconsequential. He's smarter than I am when it comes to things like that...
My bet is that Trey wouldn't answer the question either way because it's inconsequential.

He's smarter than I am when it comes to things like that. Smile
Haha....I think you could be right.

Trey's an amazing man we could all learn a thing or two from. He's absolutely amazed me over his career how he carries himself, interacts with fans, interacts with the media, and has overcome so many obstacles most would crumble under. I've been a fan since winning the 250 SX east title his rookie year and I'll continue to be fan. If anyone thinks My position is what it is because there's a 22 in my vital name, you're sorely mistaken, replace the names canard and Reed in this situation with any two names on the track and I'd still say Gallaghers decision was wrong. I'm a fan of the sport, I'm a fan of good racing, and quite a few different riders, I'm not a fan of People in positions of power who make poor, unilateral decisions or knee jerk reactions.
lostboy819 1/22/2015 2:29pm
1/22/2015 2:29pm
Nerd wrote:
I was just told that it's possible Reed got the flag the next lap, not that lap, but it couldn't be confirmed. Either way, I'm looking...
I was just told that it's possible Reed got the flag the next lap, not that lap, but it couldn't be confirmed. Either way, I'm looking to confirm it this weekend.
Well shit ! The world will be one again when "nerd" gets confirmation.
Nerd go back to what ever shit hole you have been spewing your arrogant so called journalistic propaganda at because you are not missed at Vital. Blush
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kiwifan 1/22/2015 2:32pm
1/22/2015 2:32pm
Sully22 wrote:
Exactly! What I find compelling is not even the guy on the receiving end of the nudge has said Reed deserved the black flag. All I've...
Exactly! What I find compelling is not even the guy on the receiving end of the nudge has said Reed deserved the black flag. All I've seen is some vital posters, known Reed haters, say this was the right call. The point people are trying to make is regardless of the name on the back of the jersey (and that's what's vitally important here), this was a stupid, boneheaded, inconsistent, knee jerk decision that has no place in the sport and the guy unilaterally making the decision has a past with the name on the jersey....and while there is a past, that should never come into play because Reed was not on probation for this type of riding or anything for that matter.
Nerd wrote:
My bet is that Trey wouldn't answer the question either way because it's inconsequential. He's smarter than I am when it comes to things like that...
My bet is that Trey wouldn't answer the question either way because it's inconsequential.

He's smarter than I am when it comes to things like that. Smile
Sully22 wrote:
Haha....I think you could be right. Trey's an amazing man we could all learn a thing or two from. He's absolutely amazed me over his career...
Haha....I think you could be right.

Trey's an amazing man we could all learn a thing or two from. He's absolutely amazed me over his career how he carries himself, interacts with fans, interacts with the media, and has overcome so many obstacles most would crumble under. I've been a fan since winning the 250 SX east title his rookie year and I'll continue to be fan. If anyone thinks My position is what it is because there's a 22 in my vital name, you're sorely mistaken, replace the names canard and Reed in this situation with any two names on the track and I'd still say Gallaghers decision was wrong. I'm a fan of the sport, I'm a fan of good racing, and quite a few different riders, I'm not a fan of People in positions of power who make poor, unilateral decisions or knee jerk reactions.
Bad decision? No Rash decision? maybe

I dont envy their job, they are on a hiding to nothing from the experts here who apparently can do a better job.

I guess some just cant move on...unlike the riders and officials themselves.
lostboy819 1/22/2015 2:42pm
1/22/2015 2:42pm
Nerd wrote:
Truth be told, Trey Canard is one of two racers whom I consider to be an actual friend - not just an acquaintance. If I had...
Truth be told, Trey Canard is one of two racers whom I consider to be an actual friend - not just an acquaintance. If I had a bias, it would be for Trey. That's not to say Trey has any dog in this fight, but I would be more likely to think Reed did something really bad because he did it to Trey, if I had a bias.

The official did order the black flag before the replay was shown. And I plan on proving that this weekend.
That is funny,I wonder if Trey feels the same way about you?
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GrapeApe 1/22/2015 2:43pm
1/22/2015 2:43pm
JBlain, no, I won't provide you with citations. I really do not care enough to expend any further time or effort. Good decision, bad decision, lied, didn't lie, it really does not move my "give a shit" needle at all.

Post a reply to: Reed vs, Canard, an important point to ponder