Reed vs, Canard, an important point to ponder

huck
Posts
17024
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mountain Home, AR, USA
1/22/2015 5:35am
Nerd wrote:
Motocross is a contact sport.
Bullshit.
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol, GB
1/22/2015 5:49am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2015 6:19am
Sandberm wrote:
The problem is... the powers that be running sx are like a power arrogant regime and if you dont like their governance the only way to...
The problem is...

the powers that be running sx are like a power arrogant regime and if you dont like their governance the only way to make change is with a bloody coup or to leave the series.

-James Stewart getting 16 months...come on
-Galagher giving a tongue lashing to Bowers on tv after his heat at A1...come on
-Black flagging Reed for BARELY nudging Canard ...come on



The rules are clearly laid out for the riders when they sign up to race, easiest thing to do is just follow them, instead of trying to bend them. You want to run a competitor off track? Then you run the risk of disqualification. It's really that simple.

2015 AMA Supercross Rulebook

A2 General Offenses and Penalties
a.

This section outlines actions that are deemed to be detrimental to the sport of motorcycle racing and which may result in a range of disciplinary actions. Unless otherwise specifically provided for in these rules, the Race Director may disqualify any participant or motorcycle from the balance of a race meet for violation of these rules, insubordination or other actions deemed in the sole discretion of the Race Director to be detrimental to the race meet and the sport. Such disqualification includes the loss of any rights with regard to the event in question and may result in expulsion from the meet site. In addition, the Race Director is empowered to levy fines and to recommend to AMA that a party or parties be suspended from participation in AMA sanctioned activities. Unless otherwise specifically provided for in these rules, AMA is empowered to suspend from competition any rider, crew member or motorcycle for a period of one meet up to an indefinite suspension for violation of these rules, insubordination or other actions deemed, in the sole discretion of AMA, to be detrimental to the sport of motorcycle racing. AMA is also empowered to, in addition to or in lieu of a suspension from competition, suspend a rider's eligibility to earn points for one or more events including, but not limited to, the event in which the rules violation took place. In addition, AMA is empowered to levy fines, points deductions, finishing position deductions, time penalties (which must result in the loss of at least one finishing position), and lap deductions. The beginning and ending dates of any such suspension will be as determined by AMA.

c.
The following offenses will be subject to disciplinary action by the Race Director and/or the competent bodies. This list is provided as guidance to licensed competitors and event credential holders but does not restrict AMA from invoking penal ties for other actions detrimental to the sport that are not specifically contemplated herein.

7.
Riding on or off the track at any time in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of other riders, officials or the public.
Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
1/22/2015 6:25am
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention.

Just going by rule #7, a lot of the sketchy passes guys make in SX...like Canards attempt and subsequent landing into Chad...are more endangering then Chad running a guy wide in a slow speed flat corner.

1/22/2015 6:29am
Sandberm wrote:
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention. Just going...
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention.

Just going by rule #7, a lot of the sketchy passes guys make in SX...like Canards attempt and subsequent landing into Chad...are more endangering then Chad running a guy wide in a slow speed flat corner.

Except for Canard made a racing mistake, while Reed INTENTIONALLY ran up against Canard.

The Shop

Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
1/22/2015 6:30am
To borrow a term from Baseball, what Reed did to Canard was a" Brush back pitch".

Its a pitch that isnt intended to "endanger" the batter yet gives him the clear signal that the batters actions will not be tolerated.
huck
Posts
17024
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mountain Home, AR, USA
1/22/2015 6:35am
Sandberm wrote:
To borrow a term from Baseball, what Reed did to Canard was a" Brush back pitch". Its a pitch that isnt intended to "endanger" the batter...
To borrow a term from Baseball, what Reed did to Canard was a" Brush back pitch".

Its a pitch that isnt intended to "endanger" the batter yet gives him the clear signal that the batters actions will not be tolerated.
Since you brought up baseball...


Let's pretend...

Team A accidentally throws a wild pitch and hit's Team B's star player...

Next inning Team B throws a "brush back pitch" up under Team A's star player's chin, I would be willing to bet that the pitcher would be thrown out. Happens all the time.
RMT
Posts
1269
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Chicagoland, IL, USA
1/22/2015 6:42am
huck wrote:
Since you brought up baseball... Let's pretend... Team A accidentally throws a wild pitch and hit's Team B's star player... Next inning Team B throws a...
Since you brought up baseball...


Let's pretend...

Team A accidentally throws a wild pitch and hit's Team B's star player...

Next inning Team B throws a "brush back pitch" up under Team A's star player's chin, I would be willing to bet that the pitcher would be thrown out. Happens all the time.
Game, set and match!!!! He tee'd that one right up for ya.
Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
1/22/2015 6:50am
The accidently thrown "wild" pitch is understood as accidental and there would be no brush back pitch the next inning.

However...if the one teams pitcher is throwing inside consistently and one gets away and hits a batter...then the other team will retaliate with a brush back pitch to let the other pitcher know that if hes going to make that inside pitch... much the same way Canard tried to make that pass...he better not hit the batter... or land on Chad.
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol, GB
1/22/2015 6:52am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2015 6:56am
Sandberm wrote:
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention. Just going...
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention.

Just going by rule #7, a lot of the sketchy passes guys make in SX...like Canards attempt and subsequent landing into Chad...are more endangering then Chad running a guy wide in a slow speed flat corner.

The fact that Canard wasn't paying attention is completely besides the point. The consquence of Chads actions sent Canard over the tuff blocks which could easily have resulted in injury, therefore he endangered him. It doesn't matter whether that was Reeds intention or not, it happened because Reed chased him down and bumped into him.

In most incidences when a rider runs it in hard on another in a turn it can be argued that the guy was just racing for position. But Chad left the officials in no doubt whatsoever as to what he was doing.
Grieby54
Posts
2826
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Castle Rock, CO, USA
1/22/2015 6:58am
Nerd wrote:
Motocross is a contact sport.
huck wrote:
Bullshit.
Agreed, Huck. There is contact from time to time, but motocross is not a contact sport. This isn't bumper cars, it's not football, it's racing. Anyone who thinks it's a contact sport has a bit of an ego issue.

Yes... I know there are pictures of block passes out there. That's 1% of the time.
Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
1/22/2015 6:59am
To borrow another baseball analogy.

The umpires should have stayed out of it and let the players take care of their business on the field. Canard lands on Chad, Chad bumps Canard.

Its over at that point...its understood between the players and they let it go. If Chad doesnt bump Canard it sends a message to Canard that he can try sketchy passes like that again on Chad....much the same way Bowers had to let Osbourne know that he wasnt going to let him ride rough with him.
huck
Posts
17024
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mountain Home, AR, USA
1/22/2015 7:14am
Nerd wrote:
Motocross is a contact sport.
huck wrote:
Bullshit.
Grieby54 wrote:
Agreed, Huck. There is contact from time to time, but motocross is not a contact sport. This isn't bumper cars, it's not football, it's racing. Anyone...
Agreed, Huck. There is contact from time to time, but motocross is not a contact sport. This isn't bumper cars, it's not football, it's racing. Anyone who thinks it's a contact sport has a bit of an ego issue.

Yes... I know there are pictures of block passes out there. That's 1% of the time.
Exactly! It is a racing sport, where there is occasionally some contact.
h&m_cycle
Posts
4410
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH, USA
1/22/2015 7:21am
Sandberm wrote:
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention. Just going...
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention.

Just going by rule #7, a lot of the sketchy passes guys make in SX...like Canards attempt and subsequent landing into Chad...are more endangering then Chad running a guy wide in a slow speed flat corner.

one was an accident, one was intentional, I'm praying to the lord Jesus Christ that he will help you see the difference...
h&m_cycle
Posts
4410
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH, USA
1/22/2015 7:26am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The results show Reed completed 9 laps. I'm pretty sure (99.99%) that you stop being scored when you pass the finish line on the lap you...
The results show Reed completed 9 laps. I'm pretty sure (99.99%) that you stop being scored when you pass the finish line on the lap you are black flagged, so that would mean that he actually received the black flag about 1 2/3 laps after the incident. With emotions (and heart rates) running high, it's not surprising that Reed may have misspoke or not realized that it was actually at the conclusion of the next lap when he gets DQ'd.



Nerd wrote:
The .01% wins this one.
Hey Nerd, that .01% is CHADLEY'S ODDS OF WINNING THIS YEARWoohoo Woohoo Woohoo
Sandberm
Posts
5845
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA, USA
1/22/2015 7:32am
Sandberm wrote:
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention. Just going...
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention.

Just going by rule #7, a lot of the sketchy passes guys make in SX...like Canards attempt and subsequent landing into Chad...are more endangering then Chad running a guy wide in a slow speed flat corner.

h&m_cycle wrote:
one was an accident, one was intentional, I'm praying to the lord Jesus Christ that he will help you see the difference...
When you guys talk about how it was "intentional", you frame it as if he intentionally did some horrible act.

Yes, Chad intentionally rubbed up against Trey...and Trey deserved it. Intentionally showing Trey a wheel, a little nudge, an elbow, whatever you want to call it in those circumstances was no big deal.

Thanks for your prayers.
1/22/2015 7:42am
Nerd wrote:
The lap chart shows him pulling off after lap 9. He said he rode an extra lap or two. That's only one lap past when he...
The lap chart shows him pulling off after lap 9. He said he rode an extra lap or two. That's only one lap past when he and Canard tangled.

That's the proof.

He got the black flag 33-35 seconds after he took Canard out, and the replay of that incident didn't happen until 48 seconds later.

So the official in fact did NOT use the replay, as he claimed, to decide on the black flag.

And I believe in a situation like this, the only reason for him to lie is to cover his butt.

Look back to Phoenix 2010, where Reed and Stewart tangled. Stewart fell on Reed's right hand/arm. It broke Reed's hand. Reed shoved Stewart's head off of his arm in order to get up. This same official DQ'd Reed for hitting Stewart, and also banned him from one race.

I was one of 3 journalists who hung around until after 2 am to figure out what was going to happen that night. Reed went in and met with this official WITH X-RAYS showing his hand was broken, and the official simply said (paraphrasing), "I know what I saw."

Reed appealed and won.

This incident is more of the same: Snap judgments, then afterward trying to figure out how to justify it.

It's bad for the sport.
So John Gallagher might be targeting Reed?
Just when you thought it couldn't get any more tangled. It's like a Soap Opera with triples and berms.
Nerd wrote:
Not specifically. As that nickname person said he does, I think it's possible he sees what Reed does different than he'd see another rider doing the...
Not specifically. As that nickname person said he does, I think it's possible he sees what Reed does different than he'd see another rider doing the same thing.

Phoenix 2010 is another example.
Nerd -

So do you think that Reed was unfairly discriminated against in this case?

Given the same set of circumstances with someone other than Reed retaliating do you think they wouldn't have been black flagged in this case just as Reed was? And I'm not talking about any other contact that has happened in the past so please don't use that as a reference or comparison.

What's your take on Reed ignoring the black flag on more than one occasion and continuing to race?
Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
1/22/2015 7:47am
Sandberm wrote:
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention. Just going...
To address rule 7, "Endanger" is a pretty strong term for what Chad did. He just ran him wide and Canard wasnt paying attention.

Just going by rule #7, a lot of the sketchy passes guys make in SX...like Canards attempt and subsequent landing into Chad...are more endangering then Chad running a guy wide in a slow speed flat corner.

h&m_cycle wrote:
one was an accident, one was intentional, I'm praying to the lord Jesus Christ that he will help you see the difference...
Sandberm wrote:
When you guys talk about how it was "intentional", you frame it as if he intentionally did some horrible act. Yes, Chad intentionally rubbed up against...
When you guys talk about how it was "intentional", you frame it as if he intentionally did some horrible act.

Yes, Chad intentionally rubbed up against Trey...and Trey deserved it. Intentionally showing Trey a wheel, a little nudge, an elbow, whatever you want to call it in those circumstances was no big deal.

Thanks for your prayers.
Motocross is a contact sport.

Rick Johnson talks about intentionally running into David Bailey, running over his feet, etc, just to try and get a little of Bailey's focus off of the track and on RJ. It was a strategy.

Bob Hannah and Roger Decoster once went back and forth slamming each other so much that one of them - Hannah, I think - DNF'd because his exhaust was so smashed that his bike quit running.

Matiasevich, Bradshaw, Emig, LaRocco, and on and on...

This is a contact sport. Period.

Also, remember that every team has someone filming their riders. There is proof that Reed got the black flag that same lap, even if we aren't able to show it to you here.
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol, GB
1/22/2015 7:47am
Sandberm wrote:
To borrow another baseball analogy. The umpires should have stayed out of it and let the players take care of their business on the field. Canard...
To borrow another baseball analogy.

The umpires should have stayed out of it and let the players take care of their business on the field. Canard lands on Chad, Chad bumps Canard.

Its over at that point...its understood between the players and they let it go. If Chad doesnt bump Canard it sends a message to Canard that he can try sketchy passes like that again on Chad....much the same way Bowers had to let Osbourne know that he wasnt going to let him ride rough with him.
'If Chad doesnt bump Canard it sends a message to Canard that he can try sketchy passes like that again on Chad'

Everyone can understand Reed being pissed about what happened, but it was purely accidental. Trey was going for the same pass that worked for at least four other riders shown previously on the broadcast, including Trey himself. Only difference being that every other rider who got passed in that section stuck to their line.

It was Chads prerogative whether he jumped from right to left to protect the inside of the next corner. He was perfectly entitled to do so, but you could say he was equally as guilty as Trey for not anticipating what might happen if he did it. He knew Trey was right on him, he was fending him off at the time and didn't want to relinquish the position. Fair enough, unfortunately at the same time Trey was railing around the outside and equally committed to the jump. Shit happens.
Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
1/22/2015 7:50am
Nerd - So do you think that Reed was unfairly discriminated against in this case? Given the same set of circumstances with someone other than Reed...
Nerd -

So do you think that Reed was unfairly discriminated against in this case?

Given the same set of circumstances with someone other than Reed retaliating do you think they wouldn't have been black flagged in this case just as Reed was? And I'm not talking about any other contact that has happened in the past so please don't use that as a reference or comparison.

What's your take on Reed ignoring the black flag on more than one occasion and continuing to race?
I think it's likely that if the two parties involved were, for example, Canard and Dungey instead of Canard and Reed, Dungey would've been given the benefit of the doubt, and they'd have sat him down and dished out a lesser penalty after the race.

As for ignoring the black flag, I can't recall a time when a racer hasn't ignored the black flag for at least a lap or two, when that black flag wasn't for their vehicle smoking or something obvious like that.
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol, GB
1/22/2015 7:54am
Nerd wrote:
Motocross is a contact sport. Rick Johnson talks about intentionally running into David Bailey, running over his feet, etc, just to try and get a little...
Motocross is a contact sport.

Rick Johnson talks about intentionally running into David Bailey, running over his feet, etc, just to try and get a little of Bailey's focus off of the track and on RJ. It was a strategy.

Bob Hannah and Roger Decoster once went back and forth slamming each other so much that one of them - Hannah, I think - DNF'd because his exhaust was so smashed that his bike quit running.

Matiasevich, Bradshaw, Emig, LaRocco, and on and on...

This is a contact sport. Period.

Also, remember that every team has someone filming their riders. There is proof that Reed got the black flag that same lap, even if we aren't able to show it to you here.
Would you prefer people raced properly or took each other out?

I have no problems with a bit of rubbing and aggressive passing, I agree it can be entertaining and excitiing at times but there has to be a limit as to whats acceptable. If some people want to complain about the amount of money they invest into the sport or how unprofessional they think the sport is compared to others maybe they should to stop confusing it with a Demolition Derby?
Clutchy
Posts
2830
Joined
3/24/2009
Location
redding, CA, USA
1/22/2015 7:57am
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....even though the entire situation sucks.. Canard made an error in judgement and took Chad out. Reed got pissed and took matters into his own hands...
Well....even though the entire situation sucks..

Canard made an error in judgement and took Chad out.
Reed got pissed and took matters into his own hands.
The official gave Reed the black flag.
The official lied about giving Reed the black flag without reviewing the replay first.

This is the thing....it sucks , but Reed and Canard both have pretty much said " We're over it ".......and we are all on this board crying over split milk. What's done is done and we should just move on. Mistakes were made by all parties involved.

That's the way I see it anyways.
So what you're saying is Three wrongs still don't make a right..... DOH. YEEEEHAAAWWWW. burp
Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
1/22/2015 8:01am
jamma10 wrote:
Would you prefer people raced properly or took each other out? I have no problems with a bit of rubbing and aggressive passing, I agree it...
Would you prefer people raced properly or took each other out?

I have no problems with a bit of rubbing and aggressive passing, I agree it can be entertaining and excitiing at times but there has to be a limit as to whats acceptable. If some people want to complain about the amount of money they invest into the sport or how unprofessional they think the sport is compared to others maybe they should to stop confusing it with a Demolition Derby?
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out.

This is how it has always worked:

If one guy becomes so much of a pinball that he is taking guys out everywhere, the other racers will turn on him, and they'll all start taking him out.

One example of this is Vince Friese. All of the racers spoke up continuously that Friese would take people out, and would do things that are NOT acceptable such as crossing over on people in the air (rather than knocking a guy down in a turn), so even Mr. Nice Guy Kevin Windham took Friese out immediately at the Monster Cup a couple years ago. He caught Friese and immediately took him out. It was essentially a pre-emotive strike based on Friese's past actions.

The racers police themselves. Always have. And it works fine.
Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
1/22/2015 8:02am
Clutchy wrote:
So what you're saying is Three wrongs still don't make a right..... DOH. YEEEEHAAAWWWW. burp
Three lefts make a right...
Grieby54
Posts
2826
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Castle Rock, CO, USA
1/22/2015 8:04am
h&m_cycle wrote:
one was an accident, one was intentional, I'm praying to the lord Jesus Christ that he will help you see the difference...
Sandberm wrote:
When you guys talk about how it was "intentional", you frame it as if he intentionally did some horrible act. Yes, Chad intentionally rubbed up against...
When you guys talk about how it was "intentional", you frame it as if he intentionally did some horrible act.

Yes, Chad intentionally rubbed up against Trey...and Trey deserved it. Intentionally showing Trey a wheel, a little nudge, an elbow, whatever you want to call it in those circumstances was no big deal.

Thanks for your prayers.
Nerd wrote:
Motocross is a contact sport. Rick Johnson talks about intentionally running into David Bailey, running over his feet, etc, just to try and get a little...
Motocross is a contact sport.

Rick Johnson talks about intentionally running into David Bailey, running over his feet, etc, just to try and get a little of Bailey's focus off of the track and on RJ. It was a strategy.

Bob Hannah and Roger Decoster once went back and forth slamming each other so much that one of them - Hannah, I think - DNF'd because his exhaust was so smashed that his bike quit running.

Matiasevich, Bradshaw, Emig, LaRocco, and on and on...

This is a contact sport. Period.

Also, remember that every team has someone filming their riders. There is proof that Reed got the black flag that same lap, even if we aren't able to show it to you here.
What percentage of time do you think there's contact in this sport? You talk about a few different incidents that make up maybe 1% of the sport. Compare this to football where 100% of the play time contains contact. Compare it to Rugby where, again, 100% of play time involves contact. Hell, compare it to soccer - there is shoulder to shoulder contact all the time.

Racing is about 1% contact. Maybe if you're Barcia it's 5% contact. This is not a contact sport.
Grieby54
Posts
2826
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Castle Rock, CO, USA
1/22/2015 8:08am
Nerd wrote:
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out. This is how it has always...
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out.

This is how it has always worked:

If one guy becomes so much of a pinball that he is taking guys out everywhere, the other racers will turn on him, and they'll all start taking him out.

One example of this is Vince Friese. All of the racers spoke up continuously that Friese would take people out, and would do things that are NOT acceptable such as crossing over on people in the air (rather than knocking a guy down in a turn), so even Mr. Nice Guy Kevin Windham took Friese out immediately at the Monster Cup a couple years ago. He caught Friese and immediately took him out. It was essentially a pre-emotive strike based on Friese's past actions.

The racers police themselves. Always have. And it works fine.
You don't remember that race well, do you? KDub did take him out, but he didn't do it "pre-emotive" or "immediately" once he caught up to him. Windham was on Friese for the better part of a lap and Friese kept pulling his typical crap with cross-jumping, looking back to block, etc...

Again, just because there is contact in the sport doesn't make it a contact sport.
VET74
Posts
360
Joined
6/14/2010
Location
TX, TN, AZ, USA
1/22/2015 8:09am
Nerd wrote:
I think it's likely that if the two parties involved were, for example, Canard and Dungey instead of Canard and Reed, Dungey would've been given the...
I think it's likely that if the two parties involved were, for example, Canard and Dungey instead of Canard and Reed, Dungey would've been given the benefit of the doubt, and they'd have sat him down and dished out a lesser penalty after the race.

As for ignoring the black flag, I can't recall a time when a racer hasn't ignored the black flag for at least a lap or two, when that black flag wasn't for their vehicle smoking or something obvious like that.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda...a lot of people keep talking about what ifs, but the fact still remains that Reed took out Canard in what was clearly not a racing incident. He paid the price, maybe too much, but I personally don't know the history between JG and Reed...and I'm sure the possibility exists that JG doesn't like Reed and given the set of circumstances he went heavy on him. I've learned the hard way that you better be careful who you piss off in this world because it may come back to haunt you.

Reed's a big boy and will figure it out.
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol, GB
1/22/2015 8:10am
jamma10 wrote:
Would you prefer people raced properly or took each other out? I have no problems with a bit of rubbing and aggressive passing, I agree it...
Would you prefer people raced properly or took each other out?

I have no problems with a bit of rubbing and aggressive passing, I agree it can be entertaining and excitiing at times but there has to be a limit as to whats acceptable. If some people want to complain about the amount of money they invest into the sport or how unprofessional they think the sport is compared to others maybe they should to stop confusing it with a Demolition Derby?
Nerd wrote:
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out. This is how it has always...
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out.

This is how it has always worked:

If one guy becomes so much of a pinball that he is taking guys out everywhere, the other racers will turn on him, and they'll all start taking him out.

One example of this is Vince Friese. All of the racers spoke up continuously that Friese would take people out, and would do things that are NOT acceptable such as crossing over on people in the air (rather than knocking a guy down in a turn), so even Mr. Nice Guy Kevin Windham took Friese out immediately at the Monster Cup a couple years ago. He caught Friese and immediately took him out. It was essentially a pre-emotive strike based on Friese's past actions.

The racers police themselves. Always have. And it works fine.
Usually riders are clever enough to use a bit of guile and artful deception though.

Reed didn't.

He sought delberate retribution right infront of the officials.
Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
1/22/2015 8:10am
Grieby54 wrote:
What percentage of time do you think there's contact in this sport? You talk about a few different incidents that make up maybe 1% of the...
What percentage of time do you think there's contact in this sport? You talk about a few different incidents that make up maybe 1% of the sport. Compare this to football where 100% of the play time contains contact. Compare it to Rugby where, again, 100% of play time involves contact. Hell, compare it to soccer - there is shoulder to shoulder contact all the time.

Racing is about 1% contact. Maybe if you're Barcia it's 5% contact. This is not a contact sport.
Every rider on the track makes contact with another rider during a race with rare exceptions.
Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
1/22/2015 8:12am
jamma10 wrote:
Would you prefer people raced properly or took each other out? I have no problems with a bit of rubbing and aggressive passing, I agree it...
Would you prefer people raced properly or took each other out?

I have no problems with a bit of rubbing and aggressive passing, I agree it can be entertaining and excitiing at times but there has to be a limit as to whats acceptable. If some people want to complain about the amount of money they invest into the sport or how unprofessional they think the sport is compared to others maybe they should to stop confusing it with a Demolition Derby?
Nerd wrote:
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out. This is how it has always...
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out.

This is how it has always worked:

If one guy becomes so much of a pinball that he is taking guys out everywhere, the other racers will turn on him, and they'll all start taking him out.

One example of this is Vince Friese. All of the racers spoke up continuously that Friese would take people out, and would do things that are NOT acceptable such as crossing over on people in the air (rather than knocking a guy down in a turn), so even Mr. Nice Guy Kevin Windham took Friese out immediately at the Monster Cup a couple years ago. He caught Friese and immediately took him out. It was essentially a pre-emotive strike based on Friese's past actions.

The racers police themselves. Always have. And it works fine.
jamma10 wrote:
Usually riders are clever enough to use a bit of guile and artful deception though.

Reed didn't.

He sought delberate retribution right infront of the officials.
An official who misrepresented the truth in order to justify their penalty...
Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
1/22/2015 8:13am
Nerd wrote:
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out. This is how it has always...
Racers taking each other out is part of the sport. Everyone on the track has intentionally taken another guy out.

This is how it has always worked:

If one guy becomes so much of a pinball that he is taking guys out everywhere, the other racers will turn on him, and they'll all start taking him out.

One example of this is Vince Friese. All of the racers spoke up continuously that Friese would take people out, and would do things that are NOT acceptable such as crossing over on people in the air (rather than knocking a guy down in a turn), so even Mr. Nice Guy Kevin Windham took Friese out immediately at the Monster Cup a couple years ago. He caught Friese and immediately took him out. It was essentially a pre-emotive strike based on Friese's past actions.

The racers police themselves. Always have. And it works fine.
Grieby54 wrote:
You don't remember that race well, do you? KDub did take him out, but he didn't do it "pre-emotive" or "immediately" once he caught up to...
You don't remember that race well, do you? KDub did take him out, but he didn't do it "pre-emotive" or "immediately" once he caught up to him. Windham was on Friese for the better part of a lap and Friese kept pulling his typical crap with cross-jumping, looking back to block, etc...

Again, just because there is contact in the sport doesn't make it a contact sport.
Most of a lap?!

Well, you got me: That's not "immediate". It was almost a minute!

Blink

Post a reply to: Reed vs, Canard, an important point to ponder

The Latest