MXA Shootout and the 450 winner is

PPS Moto
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PPS Moto 1/7/2015 8:20am
1/7/2015 8:20am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2015 8:21am
urbanlift707 wrote:
The Ktm also got last in a shootout, we need some one to take all the shootouts from each mag/online place and average them out for...
The Ktm also got last in a shootout, we need some one to take all the shootouts from each mag/online place and average them out for us. I wonder what bike did the best overall outta all them?
Here's 2013:

http://www.ppsmoto.com/reviews/motocross-bike-tests/2013-450-motocross-shootout/

and 2014:

http://www.ppsmoto.com/reviews/motocross-bike-tests/2014-pps-moto-450-motocross-shootout/

I will be doing 2015 as soon as all of the shootouts are complete.
yak651
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yak651 1/7/2015 8:39am
1/7/2015 8:39am
Carlos Z wrote:
Last year MXA gave the 250F shootout to the Kawi. This year they gave it to YZF. No significant changes to either bikes. MXA is one...
Last year MXA gave the 250F shootout to the Kawi. This year they gave it to YZF. No significant changes to either bikes. MXA is one dude. Jody. He's a dictator. He loves pumpkins. I wouldn't buy a KTM on his recommendation. If you do send out that suspension before you even take it home.
Yeah send that suspension out before you even ride it...that way you can tell who ever you pick to send it to what you want changed. Makes sense...
look out below 1/7/2015 9:06am
1/7/2015 9:06am
yak651 wrote:
Yeah send that suspension out before you even ride it...that way you can tell who ever you pick to send it to what you want changed...
Yeah send that suspension out before you even ride it...that way you can tell who ever you pick to send it to what you want changed. Makes sense...
What if you are 140 lbs like me?
Madmax31
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Madmax31 1/7/2015 9:59am
1/7/2015 9:59am
IceMan446 wrote:
Not surprising, its MXA after all.
malachi177 wrote:
No shit....Pinch
mark_swart wrote:
In all fairness to MXA... (From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-the-past-34-years-did-you-own-one-of-these) ◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2004 Honda CRF450 ◦2005 Honda CRF450 ◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2007...
In all fairness to MXA...

(From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-th…)
◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2004 Honda CRF450
◦2005 Honda CRF450
◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2007 Honda CRF450
◦2008 Honda CRF450
◦2009 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2010 KTM 450SXF
◦2011 KTM 450SXF
◦2012 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2013 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2014 Kawasaki KX450F

Doesn't really look like KTM domination to me.

Don't post facts. Are you insane?

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BAMX
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BAMX 1/7/2015 10:48am
1/7/2015 10:48am
malachi177 wrote:
No shit....Pinch
mark_swart wrote:
In all fairness to MXA... (From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-the-past-34-years-did-you-own-one-of-these) ◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2004 Honda CRF450 ◦2005 Honda CRF450 ◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2007...
In all fairness to MXA...

(From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-th…)
◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2004 Honda CRF450
◦2005 Honda CRF450
◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2007 Honda CRF450
◦2008 Honda CRF450
◦2009 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2010 KTM 450SXF
◦2011 KTM 450SXF
◦2012 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2013 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2014 Kawasaki KX450F

Doesn't really look like KTM domination to me.

Madmax31 wrote:
Don't post facts. Are you insane?
The irony of someone who obviously has a bias against MXA complaining about a bias that MXA doesn't have (the facts are in that chart) is too funny.
newmann
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newmann 1/7/2015 11:14am
1/7/2015 11:14am
mark_swart wrote:
In all fairness to MXA... (From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-the-past-34-years-did-you-own-one-of-these) ◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2004 Honda CRF450 ◦2005 Honda CRF450 ◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2007...
In all fairness to MXA...

(From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-th…)
◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2004 Honda CRF450
◦2005 Honda CRF450
◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2007 Honda CRF450
◦2008 Honda CRF450
◦2009 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2010 KTM 450SXF
◦2011 KTM 450SXF
◦2012 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2013 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2014 Kawasaki KX450F

Doesn't really look like KTM domination to me.

Madmax31 wrote:
Don't post facts. Are you insane?
BAMX wrote:
The irony of someone who obviously has a bias against MXA complaining about a bias that MXA doesn't have (the facts are in that chart) is...
The irony of someone who obviously has a bias against MXA complaining about a bias that MXA doesn't have (the facts are in that chart) is too funny.
Have to go back a few more years for the Honda domination , Suzuki hate and Yamaha jokes. For anyone who even mentions TWMX in a bike shootout thread, please copy and paste the article. Can't imagine them being offended as it would get more views here than anywhere else. Last TWMX I even thumbed through had a one paragraph "race test" fit into one page of pics.
ML512
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ML512 1/7/2015 11:16am
1/7/2015 11:16am
Well, we just finished up ours. My new project to get ready for you all to see. Laughing


newmann
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newmann 1/7/2015 11:20am
1/7/2015 11:20am
And no one can deny that KTM is kicking ass and taking names these days. They listened to all the abuse MXA threw at them for decades and did something about it. Major changes and improvements year after year throughout the product line. Anyone who throws a leg over a off road bike that doesn't appreciate what KTM does isn't much of a motorcyclist.

Go back just a couple years when the 250 SXF was 231 pounds....lol what a tub-o-lard.
OW38B
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OW38B 1/8/2015 7:43pm
1/8/2015 7:43pm
ML512 wrote:
Well, we just finished up ours. My new project to get ready for you all to see. :laugh: 450 Shootout done. Now to tabulate test rider...
Well, we just finished up ours. My new project to get ready for you all to see. Laughing


Looking forward to it. Cool

DavidVuillemin 1/9/2015 4:27pm
1/9/2015 4:27pm
jjdhog1975 wrote:
KTM
The KTM ranked 5th after the 4 Japanese bikes in my Dirt Rider shootout... Another proof MXA should stop testing dirt bikes...
DavidVuillemin 1/9/2015 4:28pm
1/9/2015 4:28pm
mark_swart wrote:
In all fairness to MXA... (From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-the-past-34-years-did-you-own-one-of-these) ◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2004 Honda CRF450 ◦2005 Honda CRF450 ◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2007...
In all fairness to MXA...

(From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-th…)
◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2004 Honda CRF450
◦2005 Honda CRF450
◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2007 Honda CRF450
◦2008 Honda CRF450
◦2009 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2010 KTM 450SXF
◦2011 KTM 450SXF
◦2012 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2013 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2014 Kawasaki KX450F

Doesn't really look like KTM domination to me.

Yamaha in 03? They really don't know want they're talking about...
SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 1/9/2015 4:40pm
1/9/2015 4:40pm
I'm sure no one is surprised by the outcome...

Yeah, MXA haven't really made KTMs consistent shootout winners, but man have they been talking them up in other articles for years now. I've always leaned more toward Dirt Rider for decent shootout information anyway.

Also, it is 2015... who cares? Pick a color you like, ride it.... You'll probably have the time of your life.
Skippie
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Skippie 1/9/2015 4:48pm
1/9/2015 4:48pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:
I'm sure no one is surprised by the outcome... Yeah, MXA haven't really made KTMs consistent shootout winners, but man have they been talking them up...
I'm sure no one is surprised by the outcome...

Yeah, MXA haven't really made KTMs consistent shootout winners, but man have they been talking them up in other articles for years now. I've always leaned more toward Dirt Rider for decent shootout information anyway.

Also, it is 2015... who cares? Pick a color you like, ride it.... You'll probably have the time of your life.
Maybe it's because the guys in charge ride KTMs and actually really enjoy them. It's no secret that people have different preferences, a bike one guy calls the best could be the worst for the very next guy. It's not a bias it's the human variable in all of these tests.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 1/9/2015 4:55pm
1/9/2015 4:55pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Dirt Bike 2015 450s 1 KXF 2 RMZ 3 YZF 4CRF 5,6 SXF, husky CycleNews 1YZF 2KXF 3CRF 4SXF 5RMZ 6 husky just shows how ambiguous...
Dirt Bike 2015 450s

1 KXF
2 RMZ
3 YZF
4CRF
5,6 SXF, husky

CycleNews

1YZF
2KXF
3CRF
4SXF
5RMZ
6 husky

just shows how ambiguous dirt bike tests are!
TeamGreen wrote:
In all actuality... MXA has enough time on KTMs to be able to ride them without having to "adapt"; therefore, they can honestly rate a group...
In all actuality...

MXA has enough time on KTMs to be able to ride them without having to "adapt"; therefore, they can honestly rate a group of bikes that have varying set-ups & "feel".

I know. I went thru extreme "Aluminum-Spar-Gripping" withdrawls. I had no less than 40 hours on the SXF when it finally felt normal.

Another "Fair" thing that MXA has done, historically, is make judgements about the quality of the hardware that a bike comes with. That's where KTM scores points....in the little things...
Galfer/Brembo
Regina
A muffler that actually works

They (MXA) also know how to use a tape measure, a spanner, a flat-blade screwdriver, air pump & add/remove oil; so, they go thru the trouble of learning how to/making all the adjustments.

I witnessed Jody spending a day focusing on the adjustability/differences between Kawasaki's & Suzuki's a Entirely DIFFERENT Air-Settings on what appears to be the same fork...ENTIRELY DIFFERENT settings...as in...how can they be the "same" fork...the same manufacturer...both on 450s? (The air-press differences are THAT different)

You know, I'm not always the biggest cheerleader for any one magazine; but, when it comes to shoot-outs? I have to give MXA & their staff the nod of approval.
Spot on.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 1/9/2015 4:57pm
1/9/2015 4:57pm
Carlos Z wrote:
Last year MXA gave the 250F shootout to the Kawi. This year they gave it to YZF. No significant changes to either bikes. MXA is one...
Last year MXA gave the 250F shootout to the Kawi. This year they gave it to YZF. No significant changes to either bikes. MXA is one dude. Jody. He's a dictator. He loves pumpkins. I wouldn't buy a KTM on his recommendation. If you do send out that suspension before you even take it home.
Your avatar kind of says it all. Wink
SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 1/9/2015 5:06pm
1/9/2015 5:06pm
Skippie wrote:
Maybe it's because the guys in charge ride KTMs and actually really enjoy them. It's no secret that people have different preferences, a bike one guy...
Maybe it's because the guys in charge ride KTMs and actually really enjoy them. It's no secret that people have different preferences, a bike one guy calls the best could be the worst for the very next guy. It's not a bias it's the human variable in all of these tests.
There really shouldn't be "winners" to these tests anymore... That is an outdated logic with how close the bikes are these days and as you said, it is more about the human variable.

Also, the human variable is in some ways inherently bias. Physical stature and skill are traits that will certainly play into unbiased preferences. However, there is always cognitive bias...
yak651
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yak651 1/9/2015 5:09pm
1/9/2015 5:09pm
yak651 wrote:
Yeah send that suspension out before you even ride it...that way you can tell who ever you pick to send it to what you want changed...
Yeah send that suspension out before you even ride it...that way you can tell who ever you pick to send it to what you want changed. Makes sense...
look out below wrote:
What if you are 140 lbs like me?
Get lighter springs
lostboy819
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lostboy819 1/9/2015 5:24pm
1/9/2015 5:24pm
Skippie wrote:
Maybe it's because the guys in charge ride KTMs and actually really enjoy them. It's no secret that people have different preferences, a bike one guy...
Maybe it's because the guys in charge ride KTMs and actually really enjoy them. It's no secret that people have different preferences, a bike one guy calls the best could be the worst for the very next guy. It's not a bias it's the human variable in all of these tests.
SoCalMX70 wrote:
There really shouldn't be "winners" to these tests anymore... That is an outdated logic with how close the bikes are these days and as you said...
There really shouldn't be "winners" to these tests anymore... That is an outdated logic with how close the bikes are these days and as you said, it is more about the human variable.

Also, the human variable is in some ways inherently bias. Physical stature and skill are traits that will certainly play into unbiased preferences. However, there is always cognitive bias...
Or even the best dealership close to where you live and ride. All the bikes are good.

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Kawasaki_1996 1/9/2015 5:41pm
1/9/2015 5:41pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:
There really shouldn't be "winners" to these tests anymore... That is an outdated logic with how close the bikes are these days and as you said...
There really shouldn't be "winners" to these tests anymore... That is an outdated logic with how close the bikes are these days and as you said, it is more about the human variable.

Also, the human variable is in some ways inherently bias. Physical stature and skill are traits that will certainly play into unbiased preferences. However, there is always cognitive bias...
I agree here.

As a bike buyer, what's more relevant to me is finding out which bike will suit me best. I enjoy shootouts that see the bikes 'matched' to riding styles/skill levels. That said I have no issue with the mag declaring a 'winner' if one bike really does stand out across most of the evaluation criteria.
reded
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reded 1/9/2015 5:46pm
1/9/2015 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/9/2015 5:47pm
Shootout winner according to riding skill would be much more beneficial than an overall winner. I would assume that most magazine testers are above my 40yr old skill set.
Skippie
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Skippie 1/9/2015 6:07pm
1/9/2015 6:07pm
reded wrote:
Shootout winner according to riding skill would be much more beneficial than an overall winner. I would assume that most magazine testers are above my 40yr...
Shootout winner according to riding skill would be much more beneficial than an overall winner. I would assume that most magazine testers are above my 40yr old skill set.
That is one area where I do like TWMX format for testing. They have riders from beginner level all the way up to a pro level, with varying ages, statures etc. They also show how each individual tester ranked the bikes in order and what bikes they previously raced/ridden. I like those details because it shows what the rider is used to and how it could have affected their decision.
holeshot413
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holeshot413 1/9/2015 6:32pm
1/9/2015 6:32pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Dirt Bike 2015 450s 1 KXF 2 RMZ 3 YZF 4CRF 5,6 SXF, husky CycleNews 1YZF 2KXF 3CRF 4SXF 5RMZ 6 husky just shows how ambiguous...
Dirt Bike 2015 450s

1 KXF
2 RMZ
3 YZF
4CRF
5,6 SXF, husky

CycleNews

1YZF
2KXF
3CRF
4SXF
5RMZ
6 husky

just shows how ambiguous dirt bike tests are!
TeamGreen wrote:
In all actuality... MXA has enough time on KTMs to be able to ride them without having to "adapt"; therefore, they can honestly rate a group...
In all actuality...

MXA has enough time on KTMs to be able to ride them without having to "adapt"; therefore, they can honestly rate a group of bikes that have varying set-ups & "feel".

I know. I went thru extreme "Aluminum-Spar-Gripping" withdrawls. I had no less than 40 hours on the SXF when it finally felt normal.

Another "Fair" thing that MXA has done, historically, is make judgements about the quality of the hardware that a bike comes with. That's where KTM scores points....in the little things...
Galfer/Brembo
Regina
A muffler that actually works

They (MXA) also know how to use a tape measure, a spanner, a flat-blade screwdriver, air pump & add/remove oil; so, they go thru the trouble of learning how to/making all the adjustments.

I witnessed Jody spending a day focusing on the adjustability/differences between Kawasaki's & Suzuki's a Entirely DIFFERENT Air-Settings on what appears to be the same fork...ENTIRELY DIFFERENT settings...as in...how can they be the "same" fork...the same manufacturer...both on 450s? (The air-press differences are THAT different)

You know, I'm not always the biggest cheerleader for any one magazine; but, when it comes to shoot-outs? I have to give MXA & their staff the nod of approval.
Not only this but I race at Glen Helen and see these MXA guys, beating down these bikes, racing them, all kinds of different level racers, riders AND they have them over an extended period of time. I believe what they say!!
Spartacus
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Spartacus 1/9/2015 6:40pm
1/9/2015 6:40pm
IceMan446 wrote:
Not surprising, its MXA after all.
malachi177 wrote:
No shit....Pinch
mark_swart wrote:
In all fairness to MXA... (From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-the-past-34-years-did-you-own-one-of-these) ◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F ◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2004 Honda CRF450 ◦2005 Honda CRF450 ◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F ◦2007...
In all fairness to MXA...

(From http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/the-best-motocross-bikes-of-th…)
◦2001 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2002 Yamaha YZ426F
◦2003 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2004 Honda CRF450
◦2005 Honda CRF450
◦2006 Yamaha YZ450F
◦2007 Honda CRF450
◦2008 Honda CRF450
◦2009 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2010 KTM 450SXF
◦2011 KTM 450SXF
◦2012 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2013 Kawasaki KX450F
◦2014 Kawasaki KX450F

Doesn't really look like KTM domination to me.

Please don't bring relevant information into the discussion.

Thank you.
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wfo250 1/9/2015 7:05pm
1/9/2015 7:05pm
reded wrote:
Shootout winner according to riding skill would be much more beneficial than an overall winner. I would assume that most magazine testers are above my 40yr...
Shootout winner according to riding skill would be much more beneficial than an overall winner. I would assume that most magazine testers are above my 40yr old skill set.
Skippie wrote:
That is one area where I do like TWMX format for testing. They have riders from beginner level all the way up to a pro level...
That is one area where I do like TWMX format for testing. They have riders from beginner level all the way up to a pro level, with varying ages, statures etc. They also show how each individual tester ranked the bikes in order and what bikes they previously raced/ridden. I like those details because it shows what the rider is used to and how it could have affected their decision.
TWMX tests suck. They all have a jerk circle and say the same
things about each bike. Anyone could write a better test than TWMX
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PRM31 1/9/2015 7:12pm
1/9/2015 7:12pm
My first subscription to MXA was in the 70s. I liked what they did then, and I still think they have the best shootouts. But no matter how "good" a shootout is, it only matters what YOU think of a particular bike.
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SLO1667 1/9/2015 8:01pm
1/9/2015 8:01pm
ML512 wrote:
Well, we just finished up ours. My new project to get ready for you all to see. :laugh: 450 Shootout done. Now to tabulate test rider...
Well, we just finished up ours. My new project to get ready for you all to see. Laughing


Always dig your reviews my man. You usually nail it pretty good.
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SLO1667 1/9/2015 8:07pm
1/9/2015 8:07pm Edited Date/Time 1/9/2015 8:08pm
Carlos Z wrote:
Last year MXA gave the 250F shootout to the Kawi. This year they gave it to YZF. No significant changes to either bikes. MXA is one...
Last year MXA gave the 250F shootout to the Kawi. This year they gave it to YZF. No significant changes to either bikes. MXA is one dude. Jody. He's a dictator. He loves pumpkins. I wouldn't buy a KTM on his recommendation. If you do send out that suspension before you even take it home.
X2..He's an opinionated old fart to boot. While I like some things they do and some of their testing writeups, they get so focused on HP numbers, that they bore me with most reviews. Add a tooth, go up on spring rates..So predictable and tiring.

I think I'd have more respect for the guy if he ever rode a track other than GH. Just because a track gets hacked doesn't mean that EVERY test should be done there. Again, it's all part of the predictability that IS MXA.

Personally speaking, one the best MX mags you can get is MOTO out of the UK. BLOWS DOORS on just about an US based sport specific mag and I get it sooner than anything stateside.
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Skippie 1/9/2015 9:19pm
1/9/2015 9:19pm
wfo250 wrote:
TWMX tests suck. They all have a jerk circle and say the same
things about each bike. Anyone could write a better test than TWMX
Have you read the 2015 bike tests? Every single rider ranked them in a different order based on their experiences. The only thing that was pretty unanimous was the YZ being on top.
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IceMan446 1/10/2015 2:41am
1/10/2015 2:41am
Spartacus wrote:
Please don't bring relevant information into the discussion.

Thank you.
Ill take DVs comments over the "relevant" information being posted by the masses on vital.
ktm212
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ktm212 1/10/2015 8:09am
1/10/2015 8:09am
I live on the east coast, so shootouts dont mean a damn thing.. literally almost zero comparison

California vs Ohio vs South Carolina vs New York would be a fun bike shoot out. There are no right answers in a shootout its all whoever liked what color.

Post a reply to: MXA Shootout and the 450 winner is