Must-See Letter Between the AMA and FIM

gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 12/18/2014 1:06pm
12/18/2014 1:06pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
No, I think because he's 28 he was fully capable of understanding the consequences beforehand.
What do you think the penalty should be? Keeping in mind he has now been approved to race with the medication.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/18/2014 1:07pm
12/18/2014 1:07pm
So which was it? He didn't do what he needed to find out what the rule was, or did he just decide to do it anyways and figured the risk of a penalty was worth it? On second thought, don't even bother answering. You're obviously one of those people on here that aren't worth engaging in conversation. So I'm gonna "get real" and move on.
bumpkinmx 12/18/2014 1:11pm
12/18/2014 1:11pm
Ive lurked on this site for so many years everyday ,everypage of lasergate lol ect.....
but the one thing i need to know in all this,
when somone going to make the hitler bunker video on this lmfao!!!
ps great site .j
dkg
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dkg 12/18/2014 1:12pm
12/18/2014 1:12pm Edited Date/Time 12/18/2014 1:16pm
captaincrunch wrote:
I think the only thing this letter does is show a level of ignorance in the AMA. 1) The letter should've been sent to WADA since...
I think the only thing this letter does is show a level of ignorance in the AMA. 1) The letter should've been sent to WADA since they've got the most control of the penalty 2) The time taken for conclusion is nothing new, it has taken months in other cases also

From what JT said, punishment was necessary and a precedent was found. This isn't the WWE here, rules must be followed. However, it's unfortunate and I'm glad James isn't being finished by this.

Personally, I believe this might actually fuel his fire enough for a title when he returns so it may in fact be a positive.
Capt.

Just because other cases have taken months, doesn't mean the process isn't broken. The length of time it takes to resolve these things is too long and frankly a little ridiculous. By way of example, lets look at some relative time periods involved in the sport.

365-730 days - the length of most common rider contracts in the sport (i.e 1 or 2 years)
119 days - Length of SX season for 2015
98 days - Length of MX season for 2015

Times involved in Stewart situation:

66 days - Time: test to provisional suspension - 55% of SX Season, 67% of MX Season, 18% to 9% of Contract
128 days - Time: provisional suspension to hearing - 108% of SX Season, 130% of MX Season, 36% to 18% of Contract
50 days - Time: hearing to decision - 42% of SX season, 51% of MX season, 14% to 7% of Contract
244 days Time: test to decision - 205% of SX Season, 249% of MX season, 67% to 33.5% of Contract

Taking into consideration all of the people, teams promoters, fans, marketers and others that are impacted by these decisions, the length of time that it keeps things in limbo is just not acceptable. It is easy to focus solely on the impact to the rider and ignore everyone else impacted by the process. Something that takes between 55% to 67% of the total time of a season just to get results doesn't make a lot of sense. Further, a process that takes more than double the time of either season and between 33.5% and 67% of the length of most rider contracts is simply too long. Ignoring the effect on Stewart, those points raised by the AMA (i.e. length of time and failure to communicate effectively) far from showing ignorance instead simply identify the many failures in the handling of this entire situation. And actually, I am willing to give everyone a break on this one (considering it is the maiden voyage of SX drug testing) including the FIM. It just seems clear that out of respect for all involved this process needs some drastic fine tuning.

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Canadad
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Canadad 12/18/2014 1:13pm
12/18/2014 1:13pm
RY4N37 wrote:
So you're basically hoping that he's not punished at all. I think that's going from one extreme to another. He needs some kind of punishment. I...
So you're basically hoping that he's not punished at all. I think that's going from one extreme to another. He needs some kind of punishment. I can't really see that happening
Canadad wrote:
Payment of the fine
RY4N37 wrote:
You can't punish a multi millionaire sportsman by fining him. He has that much money a fine won't do anything
Fining a sports figure in today's day and age is not about punishment, its about the appearance of punishment.
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hvaughn88 12/18/2014 1:14pm
12/18/2014 1:14pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
No, I think because he's 28 he was fully capable of understanding the consequences beforehand.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
What do you think the penalty should be? Keeping in mind he has now been approved to race with the medication.
Given WADA's history and the given the assumption they have all the facts, I don't have an issue with the punishment. I am not arrogant enough to put forth my own ideas of a course of punishment (or complain about the current punishment) because I (nor you) have all of the facts. To do so without all of the facts made available would be foolish and irresponsible.
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Kawaboy14 12/18/2014 1:16pm
12/18/2014 1:16pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
"It's easier to start wars than it is to end them"

~ Me
True words!
gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 12/18/2014 1:19pm
12/18/2014 1:19pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
No, I think because he's 28 he was fully capable of understanding the consequences beforehand.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
What do you think the penalty should be? Keeping in mind he has now been approved to race with the medication.
hvaughn88 wrote:
Given WADA's history and the given the assumption they have all the facts, I don't have an issue with the punishment. I am not arrogant enough...
Given WADA's history and the given the assumption they have all the facts, I don't have an issue with the punishment. I am not arrogant enough to put forth my own ideas of a course of punishment (or complain about the current punishment) because I (nor you) have all of the facts. To do so without all of the facts made available would be foolish and irresponsible.
MC gave his foolish and irresponsible opinion, as did numerous RacerX journalists, and all agreed the penalty is overkill.
it's just an opinion.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/18/2014 1:22pm
12/18/2014 1:22pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
What do you think the penalty should be? Keeping in mind he has now been approved to race with the medication.
hvaughn88 wrote:
Given WADA's history and the given the assumption they have all the facts, I don't have an issue with the punishment. I am not arrogant enough...
Given WADA's history and the given the assumption they have all the facts, I don't have an issue with the punishment. I am not arrogant enough to put forth my own ideas of a course of punishment (or complain about the current punishment) because I (nor you) have all of the facts. To do so without all of the facts made available would be foolish and irresponsible.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
MC gave his foolish and irresponsible opinion, as did numerous RacerX journalists, and all agreed the penalty is overkill.
it's just an opinion.
and they have the right to do so. Similar to me having the right to think it's foolish and irresponsible.
sbarrington314 12/18/2014 1:28pm
12/18/2014 1:28pm
RY4N37 wrote:
You can't punish a multi millionaire sportsman by fining him. He has that much money a fine won't do anything
You act like they are punishing a criminal. What do you want the punishment "to do" exactly?
bumpkinmx 12/18/2014 1:29pm
12/18/2014 1:29pm
just out of curiosty does anyone know if the substance found , anphet ,was he proscribed pure anphet or was the illiegal substance only a component ingrediant in a drug ?
mxdude105
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mxdude105 12/18/2014 1:43pm
12/18/2014 1:43pm
I see some sort of compromise deal being worked out wherein he's allowed to ride Nationals and maybe the last few SX races. To me this seems almost like a business transaction: one party comes out with a totally ridiculous penalty (FIM), the other party counters (AMA) with a slap-on-the-wrist proposal. What will end up happening is somewhere in between.
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hvaughn88 12/18/2014 1:48pm
12/18/2014 1:48pm
take it for whatever you want. No skin off my back whether I "win or lose" an argument on the internet against a "keyboard warrior"
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 12/18/2014 1:55pm
12/18/2014 1:55pm
He's 29 on sunday and he signed the form stating it was his responsibility to keep PEDs out of his system.

He knew.

The penalties were known by all. 16 months is shorter than others who have done 18 months.
Walter
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Walter 12/18/2014 2:07pm
12/18/2014 2:07pm
IceMan446 wrote:
That brings up a very good point. Im not sure how to figure that one out. For the simple fact that, if you are caught in...
That brings up a very good point.

Im not sure how to figure that one out. For the simple fact that, if you are caught in the SX series, do you do your 4 race suspension immediately? And does that carry over into the MX series?

I don't think the testing process is fast enough to determine a positive test and to hand down a punishment with appeals being part of it and the ongoing back and forth.

So, do you then lose all your points from the previous year or series and THEN lose another 4 races on top of that?

And then, what if you are caught with two races to go in the SX series, does your 4 race suspension carry over into the MX series?

I think each series should be punished seperately not that I think of it.

So going back on what I said in a previous post, James should only be suspended for 4 races in SX since he did not fail a drug test in the MX series.

I get the FIM is a part of each series, but they should be looked at as two separate entities. Because they are just that in reality.
hvaughn88 wrote:
what if a rider were tested in the off season and failed in the off season?
IceMan446 wrote:
They don't have an offseason testing protocol.

Cycling does out of season tests and the suspension periods are the same as with in season testing.
RY4N37
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RY4N37 12/18/2014 2:09pm
12/18/2014 2:09pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
You act like they are punishing a criminal. What do you want the punishment "to do" exactly?
Match the violation. No other sport that is run under WADA drugs testing gives a fine for a violation of doping conduct.
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Steve 396 12/18/2014 3:13pm
12/18/2014 3:13pm
Flip side is: Do you know for a fact he did NOT sign the required for from the FIM/AMA? From what we have been told (I know, you don't have to say it) everyone has to sign the form before they race.

Discuss......

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Bob693 12/18/2014 3:18pm
12/18/2014 3:18pm
keinz wrote:
http://www.fim-live.com/en/article/decision-of-the-fim-international-di…
I thought whoever wrote it earlier was kidding, this was actually decided by some guy from India at a Best Western in Switzerland? What a joke. I get that we outsource a lot of stuff to India these days but that's ridiculous.
gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 12/18/2014 3:22pm
12/18/2014 3:22pm
keinz wrote:
http://www.fim-live.com/en/article/decision-of-the-fim-international-di…
Bob693 wrote:
I thought whoever wrote it earlier was kidding, this was actually decided by some guy from India at a Best Western in Switzerland? What a joke...
I thought whoever wrote it earlier was kidding, this was actually decided by some guy from India at a Best Western in Switzerland? What a joke. I get that we outsource a lot of stuff to India these days but that's ridiculous.
I thought they were kidding also Laughing
Underground 12/18/2014 3:29pm
12/18/2014 3:29pm
Good on the AMA for pointing out the unprofessionalism of this whole sorry mess. Rules are rules, but it's not like he was blood doping or what ever, and it has taken way too long, with a ridiculously harsh penalty. As Gibby has sort of eluded to, there looks to be something a little more to the saga the a testing positive without a TUE. Quite possibly MXoN related.
RY4N37
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RY4N37 12/18/2014 3:33pm
12/18/2014 3:33pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I thought they were kidding also Laughing
Honestly don't understand what's wrong with this. Everyone who was part of the hearing is perfectly qualified to do the jobs they were given. It doesn't matter what country they are from
RY4N37
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RY4N37 12/18/2014 3:34pm
12/18/2014 3:34pm
Underground wrote:
Good on the AMA for pointing out the unprofessionalism of this whole sorry mess. Rules are rules, but it's not like he was blood doping or...
Good on the AMA for pointing out the unprofessionalism of this whole sorry mess. Rules are rules, but it's not like he was blood doping or what ever, and it has taken way too long, with a ridiculously harsh penalty. As Gibby has sort of eluded to, there looks to be something a little more to the saga the a testing positive without a TUE. Quite possibly MXoN related.
How would it be MXoN related?
philG
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philG 12/18/2014 3:41pm
12/18/2014 3:41pm
im guessing it might explain why he hasnt been picked for a while..
Rooster
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Rooster 12/18/2014 3:45pm
12/18/2014 3:45pm
So James has a suspension guy, a chassis guy, an engine guy, an electronics guy, a team manager, a truck driver, a motorhome driver, a practice mechanic, a personal trainer, an agent and a personal manager and NOBODY has thought to get a TUE for the banned substances he's been taking since 2012?

Yeah, that the FIM's fault for sure. I mean who else could you possibly blame in a situation like this?
RY4N37
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RY4N37 12/18/2014 3:53pm
12/18/2014 3:53pm
Rooster wrote:
So James has a suspension guy, a chassis guy, an engine guy, an electronics guy, a team manager, a truck driver, a motorhome driver, a practice...
So James has a suspension guy, a chassis guy, an engine guy, an electronics guy, a team manager, a truck driver, a motorhome driver, a practice mechanic, a personal trainer, an agent and a personal manager and NOBODY has thought to get a TUE for the banned substances he's been taking since 2012?

Yeah, that the FIM's fault for sure. I mean who else could you possibly blame in a situation like this?
Exactly. It's fairly simple really
gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 12/18/2014 3:54pm
12/18/2014 3:54pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I thought they were kidding also Laughing
RY4N37 wrote:
Honestly don't understand what's wrong with this. Everyone who was part of the hearing is perfectly qualified to do the jobs they were given. It doesn't...
Honestly don't understand what's wrong with this. Everyone who was part of the hearing is perfectly qualified to do the jobs they were given. It doesn't matter what country they are from
That is a big assumption without knowing them personally.

The AMA seems to disagree with you.
gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 12/18/2014 3:56pm
12/18/2014 3:56pm
Rooster wrote:
So James has a suspension guy, a chassis guy, an engine guy, an electronics guy, a team manager, a truck driver, a motorhome driver, a practice...
So James has a suspension guy, a chassis guy, an engine guy, an electronics guy, a team manager, a truck driver, a motorhome driver, a practice mechanic, a personal trainer, an agent and a personal manager and NOBODY has thought to get a TUE for the banned substances he's been taking since 2012?

Yeah, that the FIM's fault for sure. I mean who else could you possibly blame in a situation like this?
Everybody knows it was James fault, it is the way it was handled and the severity of the penalty for a medication he is now approved to take is the issue.
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Gringoe 12/18/2014 4:04pm
12/18/2014 4:04pm
Rooster wrote:
So James has a suspension guy, a chassis guy, an engine guy, an electronics guy, a team manager, a truck driver, a motorhome driver, a practice...
So James has a suspension guy, a chassis guy, an engine guy, an electronics guy, a team manager, a truck driver, a motorhome driver, a practice mechanic, a personal trainer, an agent and a personal manager and NOBODY has thought to get a TUE for the banned substances he's been taking since 2012?

Yeah, that the FIM's fault for sure. I mean who else could you possibly blame in a situation like this?
Yep haha
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IceMan446 12/18/2014 4:04pm
12/18/2014 4:04pm
Walter wrote:
Cycling does out of season tests and the suspension periods are the same as with in season testing.
I know they do, but SX and MX don't have an out of season testing protocol that I know of.

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