16 months...

Crush
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12/17/2014 4:18pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
The same as it is to insinuate that the governing body and drug testing authorities are persecuting a particular rider for whatever reason?

It's just a different view.
Moto75
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Somewhere in, AZ, USA
12/17/2014 4:21pm
jamma10 wrote:
Canards mum absolutely nailed it in her facebook post; Gotta get a few things off my chest. First, I have known the Stewarts for a really...
Canards mum absolutely nailed it in her facebook post;

Gotta get a few things off my chest. First, I have known the Stewarts for a really long time, and I like and admire all of them. Secondly, I think the penalty is way too harsh.

All of the riders (say again, all of the riders) were told that they were required to disclose any prescriptions that they were taking (to get a TUE) AHEAD OF TESTING. For whatever reason, Stewart did not. Aderall is not the issue, but a lack of disclosure. Those of you blaming WADA and USADA are out of line (unless your complaint is the length of the penalty).

Those of you complaining about testing at all in SX/MX, do you really want HGH and PED's to be allowed? Not only is this an unfair advantage against people who refuse this, but it is unfair to those riders who cannot afford it. And it's dangerous to the individuals who take it.

To those of you saying you're not going to any races this year, good riddance. You're not a true fan and you are disrespecting all the guys still out there busting their butts and risking injury.

(hope you don't mind me copy and pasting this mom241)
Guess I'm not a fan.. lol. Been to at least 2 supercrosses per year for the last 20 years. I say it's respecting the riders to skip the season. The riders devote their lives to it. Then to be bounced by someone in India, who is completely removed from American racing & take 8 months to do it is BS. The penalty duration may be just, maybe not. But, letting a team / rider prepare for a season, not issuing the penalty when they already have the information to do so - is disrespectful.
mx836
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12/17/2014 4:22pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
12/17/2014 4:23pm
So, anyone know how long the appeal process takes? GuyB? JT? Anyone else?

The Shop

ando
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12/17/2014 4:24pm
Then the higher ups of Supercross and Motocross can know that they created a monster when they aligned with WADA. AQnd THEy will have to deal...
Then the higher ups of Supercross and Motocross can know that they created a monster when they aligned with WADA. AQnd THEy will have to deal with the firestorm that is blazing right now on social media.WADA doesn't give a damn all that James has done for the sport. Its not all black and white. There are gray areas. And if a clerical error can get you 16 months then its time to get rid of WADA.

Depends what you mean by clerical error. If he'd advised FELD/FIM that he was taking adderall, and intended to file for a TUE, or the paperwork was already prepared but not yet submitted, or was submitted to the wrong address or person, that's what I would call a clerical or paperwork error.

However, if there was NOTHING prior to his positive test, it's pretty hard for the FIM and/or WADA to determine his intent after the fact. If there is no evidence of trying to obtain a TUE prior, that's not a clerical or paperwork error.
12/17/2014 4:27pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2014 4:31pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
mx836 wrote:
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they...
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
WADA do not give two shits for our sport or any other. But there is a difference in being objective and not caring, which Feld/FIM/MX Sports knew they did not care. Biggest mistake was the powers that be of SX and MX aligning themselves with an organization who doesn't give a shit about our sport or our athletes.

And yes, I know, he was guilty. I'm talking the severity of the punishment, for those who are about to say something.
ando
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12/17/2014 4:31pm
For what it's worth, I think the penalty is harsh but fair. The reason I say this is that this suspension is very similar to what other athletes have received in similar circumstances, most notably the recent case of Anthony West.

I also suspect that, while most people are saying the penalty should have been much less, James may have been lucky not to get a longer suspension. My guess is that the starting penalty was two years, which was then reduced in light of his recently approved TUE's showing a genuine need for adderall.
gsxrcr28
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12/17/2014 4:31pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
mx836 wrote:
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they...
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
I know bro Smile
I just like to shine a light on them sometimes. This is not directed at Crush or Fraser, but if people can see and understand why they do those things, occasionally it can help them.
ando
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12/17/2014 4:32pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
mx836 wrote:
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they...
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
Yeah...OK....
mx836
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12/17/2014 4:34pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
mx836 wrote:
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they...
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
WADA do not give two shits for our sport or any other. But there is a difference in being objective and not caring, which Feld/FIM/MX Sports...
WADA do not give two shits for our sport or any other. But there is a difference in being objective and not caring, which Feld/FIM/MX Sports knew they did not care. Biggest mistake was the powers that be of SX and MX aligning themselves with an organization who doesn't give a shit about our sport or our athletes.

And yes, I know, he was guilty. I'm talking the severity of the punishment, for those who are about to say something.
For clarification, I was referring to the vitards who stand behind the decision, not the people who actually stand behind the decision. I called vitards people. Don't know what I was thinking.
12/17/2014 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2014 4:46pm
Jt$ wrote:
Sounds like the former chairman of WADA disagrees with a lot of people on twitter and instagram about Adderall's athletic advantages.
There is the issue of DOSAGE. Someone who is using Adderall to gain a competitive advantage likely does not limit themselves to the sort of doses that are utilized to treat ADHD under a doctors care. It is apples and oranges, no matter what the former chairman's medical qualifications. Go read about the history of amphetamine use in cycling prior to 1965. Are you going to claim with a straight face that those guys were only taking 20 mg a day?

The advantages associated with illegitimate usage at high doses are not the same as those at doses used as prescribed by a physician. The WADA TUE process is very strict, and they are not granted unless the treatment regime is agree upon by the reviewing board to be medically necessary.

Of course, we can never know if Stew was following his Dr.s recommendations as far as dosage goes.
ando
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12/17/2014 4:37pm
For all those who think that James was done over by a bunch of non-Americans, you should have a read of MX Sports own policy on drugs. Here are some excerpts:

"MXS is opposed to the practice of doping in sport, on ethical and medical grounds, and fully supports the position of the
World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) against the use of banned substances and methods."

"Accordingly, MXS has adopted WADA’s anti-doping policies and procedures in order to ensure a clean, healthy and fair
sporting atmosphere for all athletes."

"Riders competing in MXS events are subject to blood and/or urine testing for any substances or methods on the World
Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) Prohibited List: http://www.wada-ama.org."

"Sample collection shall be in accordance with the WADA International Standard for Testing"

"Penalties for first and subsequent
offenses may include but not be limited to:

a. Suspension from competition for an indefinite period, such period to cover a minimum of two-years, or a period to
be determined by MXS."
12/17/2014 4:38pm
This may have been answered already, but is there an exception to Daytona?
12/17/2014 4:42pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2014 4:42pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
mx836 wrote:
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they...
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
Nonsense. I am bummed we will not see artistry like Toronto or Mt Morris...perhaps ever again.

But how could it turn out any different? WADA can not make any exceptions. They have a well established history of handing down bans of 12-18 months EVERY SINGLE TIME they busted someone for amphetamines. How can they justify being more lenient on Stew?

Punishment for a sanctioning body and ADA is not about the person being penalized, it is about discouraging others from doing the same in the future. This is not about Stew...it is about the whole of 'competitive sports'.
bdub
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12/17/2014 4:52pm
Gutted for James, Hope the appeal process goes well so he can still be on the gate at A1
mx836
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12/17/2014 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2014 5:06pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless...
I just find it a bit unusual to try so often, and to insinuate someone is cheating without knowing all the facts of the case, unless there is a specific reason or benefit to be obtained.
mx836 wrote:
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they...
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
Nonsense. I am bummed we will not see artistry like Toronto or Mt Morris...perhaps ever again. But how could it turn out any different? WADA can...
Nonsense. I am bummed we will not see artistry like Toronto or Mt Morris...perhaps ever again.

But how could it turn out any different? WADA can not make any exceptions. They have a well established history of handing down bans of 12-18 months EVERY SINGLE TIME they busted someone for amphetamines. How can they justify being more lenient on Stew?

Punishment for a sanctioning body and ADA is not about the person being penalized, it is about discouraging others from doing the same in the future. This is not about Stew...it is about the whole of 'competitive sports'.
I understand the penalty and understand why they assessed it. I was referring to the people who keep badgering in every thread about it. Not necessarily anybody in this thread, but there have been many who were hoping he'd get a penalty of this severity. My comment was a little over-the-top but that was just for fun.
gsxrcr28
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12/17/2014 5:12pm
mx836 wrote:
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they...
They are everywhere man. Have been since day one. IMO, pretty much everyone who stands behind the 16 month ban is a Stewart hater whether they admit it or not. Don't care if they say otherwise.
Nonsense. I am bummed we will not see artistry like Toronto or Mt Morris...perhaps ever again. But how could it turn out any different? WADA can...
Nonsense. I am bummed we will not see artistry like Toronto or Mt Morris...perhaps ever again.

But how could it turn out any different? WADA can not make any exceptions. They have a well established history of handing down bans of 12-18 months EVERY SINGLE TIME they busted someone for amphetamines. How can they justify being more lenient on Stew?

Punishment for a sanctioning body and ADA is not about the person being penalized, it is about discouraging others from doing the same in the future. This is not about Stew...it is about the whole of 'competitive sports'.
mx836 wrote:
I understand the penalty and understand why they assessed it. I was referring to the people who keep badgering in every thread about it. Not necessarily...
I understand the penalty and understand why they assessed it. I was referring to the people who keep badgering in every thread about it. Not necessarily anybody in this thread, but there have been many who were hoping he'd get a penalty of this severity. My comment was a little over-the-top but that was just for fun.
Some of us knew what you meant. It is the endless badgering that clearly serves a purpose, usually not hard to figure out.
DownSouth
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12/17/2014 5:28pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2014 5:31pm
This may have been answered already, but is there an exception to Daytona?
No. The FIM is still involved with the Daytona round it is just that Feld does not control that venue.

However as the press release explained a WADA suspension covers all racing so that includes all competition (SX, MX, Arenacross, etc.) for the duration of the ineligible period. JS is appealing the ruling so the time period may not end up at 16 months, of which 8 have already been served.
NeoSol218
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12/17/2014 5:46pm
I wonder what yzjs7 has been doing for the past few hours....
pilotdude
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12/17/2014 5:50pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2014 6:02pm
Dear Mr. Stewart,

Congratulations on your TUE for next year. We have absolutely no problem whatsoever with you using the substance in question while competing since you have now filed the proper paperwork.

But we have decided to retroactively destroy your 2014 season, including both "super" cross and the outdoor "nationals". You will have to forfeit all wins, prize money, etc. from last year from the positive test forward. Of course, we don't have the power to force, nor will we ask Feld Entertainment and everyone else who profited from you riding to unwind the past and give up everything they gained however.

And of course, despite the fact that you have now gone through all the proper procedures, and filed the proper paperwork to receive approval for the TUE in 2015, we feel it is necessary to destroy the 2015 season of both "super" cross and outdoor "nationals" for yourself, your sponsors, and most of your fans, by not allowing you to ride until August, 2015. We strongly feel it is necessary to destroy 4 of your seasons for a single-and first-violation.

We apologize for taking far longer to decide this case than many murder trials take, however these things must be handled very carefully and thoroughly. Plus, as we all summer in different areas in Europe, it was difficult to coordinate things between us. Also, Wolfgang briefly ran out of Cristal, and Giuseppe ran out of caviar more than once, and to ask them to continue the discussions without those would have been very inconsiderate on our part. (Please use discretion in revealing to anyone that Giuseppe was part of the discussions, as it would look good for neither Wolfgang nor ourselves. Thank you for understanding.)

We are aware that you are nearing the end of your illustrious career, but feel that a 16 month suspension probably will not bring it to a premature ending. We also hope it does not endanger your status as an icon of the sport. It would be a shame to have one of the sport's most popular riders of all time end his career in controversy and disgrace, but you American cowboys always seem rather stubborn when it comes to following our Rules the way we absolutely demand from the rest of the world.

It may seem odd to you that a European organization such as ours has any power over the American "super" cross and outdoor "national" series, since they are perfectly capable of governing themselves, but that is what the organizers of those series decided. They are obviously wise, have excellent judgement, and who are we to argue with them?

In closing, we wish you much success year after next in 2016, and hope for your full recovery from the condition requiring the TUE.

Sincerely,

The Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme

PS: Please pass along our heartfelt thanks to Mr. Villopoto for rescuing the rapidly sinking motocross GPs from failure. Giuseppe has indeed made things very difficult with some of his decisions but he is family and what are you going to do, yes? This should buy him some time for which we are very grateful.
gsxrcr28
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12/17/2014 5:56pm
Laughing well done pilotdude!
253
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12/17/2014 6:55pm
This may have been covered somewhere but I can't seem to find anything.
If they are striping his 2014 results, how would that affect SX or MX final points or standings for other riders? I haven't looked at it closely, but just curious how bonuses work when a rider gets bumped up to a higher result so to a situation like this.
Crush
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12/17/2014 6:58pm
253 wrote:
This may have been covered somewhere but I can't seem to find anything. If they are striping his 2014 results, how would that affect SX or...
This may have been covered somewhere but I can't seem to find anything.
If they are striping his 2014 results, how would that affect SX or MX final points or standings for other riders? I haven't looked at it closely, but just curious how bonuses work when a rider gets bumped up to a higher result so to a situation like this.
They're stripping from his collection date... Doubt much more than records will be adjusted... salaries and bonuses will probably go by the wayside of it wasn't in our control regarding other riders behind him in any event... and for him it seems Suzuki is sticking by him, so unless that changes, I doubt they'll be taking course to recoup anything.
rcannon
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12/17/2014 7:25pm
I think most of the arguments here are reasonable and valid, and I agree his punishment is way too harsh. The problem is timing. The question needed to be brought up before agreeing to the rules, not after.
mehow2g
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12/17/2014 7:31pm
I'm a huge James fan I believe he did take adderrall to perform better, I for one have taken adderrall and a similar drug called modafinil to improve mental clarity.

For me all these drugs do is put my practice into work it's kind of like a "switch on" feel, most of us are unable to perform at our very very best at all times, for me it's like this 5% of the time I'm at my best 15% I perform very well 60% of the time I'm performing ok and 20% of the time I just don't feel it.

You add adderrall you will perform close to your highest level if not the highest, I can understand the temptation and need to take the drug, when you put all that work off season you would want to perform at peak on race day.

Anyway it does not change the fact the rules are the rules everyone is aware of them, James would be racing at A1 if he was only under suspicion of taking adderrall, once you have a positive test with wada it's over you cannot undo it you will be banned no matter what.

I'm not sure if this is a harsh penalty or not, in Australian football a player got banned for 2 years for testing positive to a banned substance that was in a protein powder which is the same protein powder that he is sponsored by.

Maybe James and his people didn't play nice and he copped a bigger ban.

It sucks so bad he has not put a good season in since 07-08 and last year it really looked like he was turning it around.

James is the best rider I have ever seen he changed the whole sport, I hate to see him go out like this.

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