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Think of the other mounts as auxiliary to the swing arm pivot, used to counter the lesser "X,Y and Z" axis forces
encountered, and to further locate and retain the engine. In other words, I don't think you need to reinforce the front
engine mounts.
With these twin spar frames, the brunt of the forces encountered are transmitted to the robust cast portion that are formed by
the base of the spars, swing arm mount and upper and lower cross bracing. The cradle is there more to provide attachment
points for the engine and provide additional strength through triangulation - thus the significant difference between the size
of the spars and size of the cradle tubing.
I get my REM done at a shop in Atlanta, GA called Evans Performance. They do a lot of NASCAR and IMSA work. They
charge by the batch, so I send them everything that moves.
I haven't done anything with my frame other than wiping it down with acetone before welding. The way it looks is the way
they come from Honda.
Got a glimpse of your A kit suspenders from the pictures - looking good!
2 Stroke Beast, I went to welding school for a few weeks to get my Motorsports 1 and 2 certification. I taught myself how
to stick and MIG weld, so I already had a little bit of a foundation. The school spent some time breaking me of all the bad
habits I had picked up, then we spent many hours learning and doing various processes on all kinds of metals. Welding
school is not cheap, but it was worth every penny.
As far as cone pipes, yes I could build one. It's a labor intensive, time consuming process that I would charge somebody
a ton of money to do. Like others have said, cone pipes may look cool, but you should think of them as prototypes or
one off test pipes. They exist due to the cost and time needed to tool up for stamping. In fact once a particular factory
rider finds a pipe shape he likes for most tracks, the cone pipe disappears and a stamped pipe shows up in it's place.
Since that shape worked for that rider most of the time, it became cost effective to tool up for a low volume run since
it was common for the factory teams to replace the pipe every week. Those stamped pipes are the "trick" ones you
want to find. That's why some people are buying PC factory pipes and cutting off the ID plates. It's the closest looking
to the real thing.
dogger
weeks and cost just over $1600 in tuition. Good training and well worth the money.
I don't have a job in the welding industry. I have a normal day job (airborne bus driver). On the side, I own a small shop that
specializes in vintage car and bike restoration Welding school was just one of the schools I attended to become more
proficient at my side line.
dogger
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
check out weldingtipandtricks on youtube. and look into an Everlast inverter machine.
keep in mind that to weld aluminum you use an AC machine. stainless, ti, inconel, 4140, ect is DC
dont underestimate the amount of tools and equipment you will need to be able to mess around with stuff either besides making a tack weld on a cracked piece of tube..
decent welding table, stock, bandsaw, chopsaw, vice, ect. lots of $$.
How much welding have you done? Gas, stick, MIG? The reason I ask is TIG is a little more difficult than the other
processess. Most welders will tell you to get proficient at stick and MIG before tackling TIG. Next, welding Aluminum
is more difficult than steel and can only be done with specialized equipment. I'm not trying to discourage you, I just
want you to know it's not as easy as buying a rig and "going to town".
In my shop, we weld everything from Chrome Moly roll cages to Titanium axles. I have a Lincoln Power MIG 180C, a
Lincoln Square Wave 185 TIG and a Lincoln Power Wave S350 Advanced process machine.
If you are still sure this is something you're ready for and determined to do, here's what you'll need to TIG weld Aluminum:
TIG welder - Lot's to choose from. I recommend you stick with the Red or Blue brands (Lincoln or Miller). Welders are like
any other tool, you get what you pay for. If you are serious about welding and want a machine that will last and perform,
you'll have to shell out a few bucks. Good, entry level machines will cost around $1500. Like JBernard said, an inverter
machine is nice and has lot's of adjustability but will cost a bit more. I do recommend a 220V machine for a better duty cycle.
Also, be advised, most homes don't have a 50 amp 220V plug in the garage, something to consider. If you think you'll plug it
into the dryer outlet in the house and use an extension cord, think again.
Tungsten - Lot's of different Tungstens available and another trial and error choice. You will need different Tungsten for
each material you plan to weld.
Filler rod - Just like Tungsten, you will need specific filler rod for each material.
Shielding gas - You'll need at least a 40cf bottle of pure Argon. If you plan to do a lot of welding, look into an 80cf bottle.
Expect to pay $250 for the 40 and $400 for the 80.
Welding helmet - I like auto darkening helmets with a big face plate and adjustable darkness. You will need a darker visor
when doing TIG than MIG due to the brighter arc. I use a Viking 3350.
Gloves - For TIG, you'll need specialty gloves that are thinner to allow better feel.
Sleeves or jacket - You'll need something fire and UV resistant to wear over your arms and neck. I use fire resistant cotton
sleeves and a bib in the Summer and a leather jacket in the cooler months.
Table - You'll need some kind of bench or table to weld on, preferably something made of steel.
Accessories - Finally, you will need something to sharpen your Tungsten. It has to be dedicated meaning you can't use it on
anything else. You'll need various sizes of SS brushes, Acetone, clamps, storage box for tips, collets, nozzles, gas diffusers,
etc.
As you can see, this isn't as simple as it looks. Learning how to weld is a worthy goal, one that can either earn or save you a
bunch of money over time. But the cost of entry, both in terms of time and money, is considerable.
Hope this helps.
Travis, the clutch and ignition cover are CNC copies of the HGA/HRC covers. A guy in the UK makes them and sells them on
EBay. The clutch cover even has a little oiling shelf cast in just like the Hinson cover.
dogger
http://www.ebay.com/sch/mrmike1000/m.html?item=201203868841&hash=item2e…
If you want a clutch cover, contact him and he will get back with a price.
I found another sellers that's doing something similar on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CR-500-CR-250-HRC-replica-clutch-cover-Wo…
Looks like his prices are a little better.
dogger
I had a 2008 CRF250 with RG3 Diamond A kit for the '08 and '09 seasons. I loved that bike so much, handled so well and was so well suspended. Ended up selling it to get back on a 2 stroke, but missed the handling of it. So stable, yet so flickable.
Excellent craftsmanship on your part. This truly is a masterpiece. Cheers.
it is one of the best handlers Honda has ever made. The transformation is greatest with the CR500 engine. Compared
to the steelie frame, you get a much scaled down size with superb ergonomics and the great handling. Then throw in
60+ hp compared to even a hopped up CRF250 engine and you're literally off to the races. This CR250 version should
be nearly as fast. With the 500, I tried to restrain myself and make the engine more rideable vs more powerful because
I knew from experience what it's like to try and "survive" a moto on an open class two stroke. With the 250, I went the
other way and threw every power maker I could come up with at it. The bike is also going to be very light. The front
forks alone account for nearly twelve pounds of weight savings compared to the conventional A kit forks on the 500.
The CR250 engine is lighter than the CRF250 engine and the weight is concentrated down in the bottom end which
helps to lower the overall center of gravity for the whole bike. Then replace the clunky (and heavy) four stroke twin
muffler system with a single expansion chamber and shorty silencer, and you start to see all the big ticket weight
savers. I'm excited about this one, especially since it hasn't been done before - not like this.
I did get some more work done on it. Got the brakes plumbed and bled, the electronics wired and routed. I also got
a lot of negative feedback about the White rear fender so I switched to the Red like on the 500.
dogger
Wow- please expound on that!
You have the Pro Circuit forks which are similar to the A kit, so how do you lose 12 pounds??! I just spent over $5k (not including the $10k HRC pegs) losing 10 pounds with titanium, carbon fiber, and lightweight foam. I want to know about this miracle 12 pound lighter fork. My check will be in the mail, tomorrow.
mike
Pit Row
i cant see even close to that being needed to cnc them. material cost alone per peg is sub 100$. and with a 5 axis it doesnt seem very complex at all. post some pics up, id like to see how its machined.
i designed some and got Ti peg brackets machined up. and lets just say it was a fraction of a percent of that. granted much easier and less op's. but still.
The SSF Air forks saves about 5 lbs over my CR500 conventional A kit forks. Thanks for keeping me honest.
dogger
Here is a video where the US Honda team talks about the pegs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q19Zr55P0fc
I posted some pics of the pegs in other threads recently.. here is another with some carbon fiber parts... The carbon fiber fuel tank is one of my favorite parts. Really well made and fit perfect.
mike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q19Zr55P0fc
is the limit. I remember riding at Hangtown years ago the day after the Nationals. Team Honda was there doing some
testing. After they packed up and left, I went over to one of the 55 gal drums used for trash cans and fished out a half dozen
Twin Air filters. The riders would come in, the mechanics would change the air filter and just throw the used for 30 minute
one away. How many of us "privateers" could afford to do that? I guess that's the beauty of good sponsors. Nothing like
dropping a set of wheels off at the Dunlop truck and having one of their techs change out your only used for practice tires
for a set of new ones.
I looked into CF fuel tanks as well as Aluminum for my CR500 because the OE tanks are too big and have to be reshaped to
clear the top of the engine. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a reliable source for a one off, shallow bottom CF tank and I didn't
like the look or the duarability of an Aluminum one.
As for the other three pounds from the forks, that weight was lost when Showa went from conventional to SSF. If I had SSF's
on my CR500, the air forks would have only saved me a couple of pounds.
dogger
Replacing any single part that saves you a pound or more (except tires) is amazing in my book. Not many parts will save you a pound or more besides a titanium shock spring.
I know a vendor in the Czech Republic that can make you a 0.69kg CF tank for the 2008-2009 CRF250. My CF tank helped me drop .8 pounds. It is beautifully made, too.
mike
Are you guys being careful with tire/ tube selection on these beautiful builds like this? It would be a shame to offset the thousands spent on Ti fasteners etc. with a choice of heavier than necessary rubber, unless there is a good reason why you want to stick with a particular brand.
Example, a Pirelli MXMS front is 7oz lighter than a Dunlop MX32.
Pirelli also makes a MXMS 110/85-19 rear which is 7oz lighter than a Dunlop MX32 110/90-19. The profile difference is actually not much at all, if you go down 1 tooth on the rear sprocket the final drive ratio is equal.
Food for thought. This is free weight savings, 14oz worth.
If you're not OCD about having a matched set, Mitas makes a Pirelli-copied front tire that is another 8oz lighter than the Pirelli. It came stock on one of my TM's. it wears like iron and performs great as a bonus. I was going to replace it with a Pirelli until I discovered how light it was, and I've been pleasantly surprised with it.
To the OP: Badass bike I would love to build a bike up like that some day.
Really, hats-off to you, wow! Your builds have always stood out (no its not the red trailer/truck) always in the background...
Clinically clean work and impeccable craftsmanship.
I see this bike, and then picture that awesome feeling you must get when kitting up on a perfect morning while she warms up...ting ting ting...
Could you put a % improvement to a stocker in power and handling depts.?
PM sent!
Justin
*edited to say my vote for bike of the year!
Justin, it's hard to compare apples to apples since this bike is a hybrid. Compared to the last generation of CR250 (02-07),
the bike is slimmer through the middle, much lighter, better ergonomics, much better brakes, is better balanced, and changes
lines just by thinking about it (think Suzuki RM). The engine is over the top. The power comes in early followed by a big hit as
it comes on the pipe, the intellajet kicks in and the ignition follows a steep advance curve way above the stock sign off. The
HRC tranny tightens up the ratios a bit keeping the bike right in the middle of the powerband. I'm messing with different fly
wheel weights to tone the hit down for slick conditions, but when the dirt is good, look out. I can't say enough about the Dick's
racing carb. I believe the 36-39 taper bore is responsible in a large part for the good low end power, throttle response and the
big top end. The engine sounds potent with the shorty silencer and the smell from the MRX02 reminds me of the eye burning
MR2 fuel I used back in the day.
With the light weight and big power, this bike is easily as fast as my CR500. Once I get the suspension dialed in, I will
definitely do some A-B comparisons between the two. I'm pretty sure the 250 will lay down consistently better lap times.
This bike build was a lot of work and a lot of money, but so far, the results have all been well worth it.
dogger
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