Why manufacturers will never go back to two strokes

Edited Date/Time 9/10/2014 2:32pm
10 year old thumper just needed $1200 in motor work. Bike is barely worth that amount to begin with.



|
MxKing809
Posts
6374
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
9/4/2014 8:56pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 9:00pm
Nope, and your post is exactly why. The bike was literally not worth fixing.

If that was a KX250 it would never truly total itself out with engine damage. So now, instead of a 400 dollar fix, it's 1400, and it makes more sense to just buy a new bike

That happened a few years ago to my brother. Had an '09 Honda 450 that grenaded. Both cases were broken.... The whole 9 years. It was a 3500-4000 used bike that needed 2,100 in parts. So he sold the rolling chassis and a 5 gallon pail of salvaged engine parts to a guy for 1,500. It just wasn't worth fixing it.
loftyair
Posts
2899
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
9/4/2014 9:01pm
Yep, I just replaced a rod, bearings, seals, piston, rings, gaskets, paid to have rod and crank pressed and trued, and cases to be split and all of it put back together, for a whopping $350 total. I love 2-strokes.
9/4/2014 10:11pm
I love the Craigslist bikes that "just needs a $10 part!". Yep, I seriously don't want to spend $10 to fix this minor problem, even though fixing said problem would allow me to increase my asking price and profit by a couple hundred dollars. Nope. I just don't feel like doing it. My loss is your gain!
JBernard_401
Posts
1317
Joined
10/29/2013
Location
Boulder, CO US
9/4/2014 10:15pm
i know several 250 and 450f riders that dont ride for MONTHS because their 4T blew up and they are saving money to try and fix it. hilarious.

The Shop

9/4/2014 10:18pm
Four strokes are great racing bikes undoubtedly, but they really seem to have taken the joy out if the sport for us non hard core bike enthusiasts. Does anyone believe that 15 years from now you'll still be seeing these 4 bangers listed on Craigslist like we see these old two strokes? I'm rebuilding a 2000 kx250 I bought in milk crates, and my total expenditure for an ENTIRE engine rebuild is $755, and that include a bunch of frivolous shit that really didn't need replacing but got it anyway for peace of mind. If the manufactures would offer a less race-oriented version of their bikes in two stroke versions for the rest of us they'd make a killing; but the EPA can't have that.
MotoMalyDad
Posts
701
Joined
4/19/2012
Location
Santa Maria, CA US
9/4/2014 10:29pm
I love the Craigslist bikes that "just needs a $10 part!". Yep, I seriously don't want to spend $10 to fix this minor problem, even though...
I love the Craigslist bikes that "just needs a $10 part!". Yep, I seriously don't want to spend $10 to fix this minor problem, even though fixing said problem would allow me to increase my asking price and profit by a couple hundred dollars. Nope. I just don't feel like doing it. My loss is your gain!
Exactly.. put the 15 dollar part in and bump the price 50 bucks. When I see only needs a clutch cable, I read "needs a complete clutch rework , so I cut the cable so the sucker... er new owner can't test it"
CASH476
Posts
604
Joined
2/27/2009
Location
Perth AU
9/4/2014 11:42pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 11:43pm
If they still made only 2 strokes a 10 year old 2 stroke would also be worht nothing because no one would want them
Zracer
Posts
1479
Joined
2/17/2013
Location
Saint Clair, MI US
9/4/2014 11:59pm
CASH476 wrote:
If they still made only 2 strokes a 10 year old 2 stroke would also be worht nothing because no one would want them
WTH? Yamahas selling 10 year old 2 strokes for over 6G a pop.
9/5/2014 12:27am
'Why manufacturers will never go back to two strokes' because they'd rather kill the sport than admit they were wrong?
1
9/5/2014 12:35am
'Why manufacturers will never go back to two strokes' because they'd rather kill the sport than admit they were wrong?
Quote!
SquidBro
Posts
281
Joined
8/16/2014
Location
MP
9/5/2014 2:51am
.....Coz they can't make a two stroke that will perform (race performance) as well of a four stroke.

NEXT!
racin mason
Posts
877
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Long Beach, WA US
9/5/2014 3:20am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2014 3:21am
SquidBro wrote:
.....Coz they can't make a two stroke that will perform (race performance) as well of a four stroke.

NEXT!
lets see if they can build a 125cc 4 stroke that could out perform a 250cc 2 stroke NEXT
9/5/2014 4:07am
SquidBro wrote:
.....Coz they can't make a two stroke that will perform (race performance) as well of a four stroke.

NEXT!
So they mass produce bikes for professional racers?
mxdude105
Posts
628
Joined
12/5/2011
Location
MD US
9/5/2014 4:31am
Agree

The reason the MFGs switched to 4-strokes was due to the AMA class rules and the overwhelming 4-stroke sales in the early-mid 2000's.

The reason they (Honda, Kawi, Suz) won't offer 2-strokes anymore....they've figured out it's far more lucrative to sell and service 4 strokes, and when things go boom riders simply buy a new one instead of repairing what they've got.

I guess it's good that Yamaha still sells 2-strokes, but it's kind of a joke how they do it. Going on 9 years now with no changes to the 125/250 other than graphics and plastics, yet somehow the prices have crept up to what, 7k? KTM is the only one taking two strokes seriously, and if it was my money that's the only new two stroke I'd consider.
GrapeApe
Posts
8761
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
9/5/2014 4:52am
What do you mean "back" to 2 strokes? There are 3 major manufacturers selling 2 strokes, currently, as well as some other boutique brands. 2 strokes, 4 strokes, all different configurations, there's a bike out there for everyone.
Excaliburbmx
Posts
1868
Joined
6/21/2014
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
9/5/2014 5:36am
Remember when they stopped making rear wheel drive v8 cars?
This too shall pass.
As soon as people get past the fact that the small amount of dirt bikes and the real damage done to the enviroment is near none.
To the mfg two strokes seem like small potatoes but if a brand like kawasaki made them again they would sell.

Remember there is one factory that pollutes more per hour than all the dirt bikes could if they were all running at once.
9/5/2014 5:50am
SquidBro wrote:
.....Coz they can't make a two stroke that will perform (race performance) as well of a four stroke.

NEXT!
KTM just won the Canada national mx championship on a 250 two stroke. Now there are complaints that it's unfair to race them in the same class.
Wandell
Posts
7787
Joined
12/17/2008
Location
Cairo, GA US
9/5/2014 6:34am
CASH476 wrote:
If they still made only 2 strokes a 10 year old 2 stroke would also be worht nothing because no one would want them
Zracer wrote:
WTH? Yamahas selling 10 year old 2 strokes for over 6G a pop.
Right. Also, KTM sales are consistently high.
9/5/2014 6:50am
Suzuki should start re-importing the RM250 into the US to save their completely lagging off-road bike program.
Krazyk2774
Posts
378
Joined
12/20/2010
Location
Alberta CA
9/5/2014 6:58am
GrapeApe wrote:
What do you mean "back" to 2 strokes? There are 3 major manufacturers selling 2 strokes, currently, as well as some other boutique brands. 2 strokes...
What do you mean "back" to 2 strokes? There are 3 major manufacturers selling 2 strokes, currently, as well as some other boutique brands. 2 strokes, 4 strokes, all different configurations, there's a bike out there for everyone.
I don't understand why people keep complaining about this ! just go buy a new one and race it if you like them . I personally love my 06 YZ450 , minimal maintenance and never had an problem with it. water pump seal (half hour labor) $20 , timing chain and tensioner, and 1 piston and rings (4hours labor) $500 . set the valves a couple times .8 years of riding ! seems like a good deal to me Smile
rcannon
Posts
357
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
West Jordan, UT US
9/5/2014 7:22am
A question, though..overall....Are they happy just the way it is? People were all over dirt bikes, and access right before the economy tanked. Remember sport bikes being too fast and legislation was needed to stop this? All gone, when the economy took a dump.

I stopped into a giant shop here in Logan UT. They sell KTM, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Victory, and Poliaris.

They had a total of 8 streetbikes. Fairly well stocked on KTM dirt bikes. This shop is strange, though, Its massive. A t oen time it was where they designed/built and tested the "Big Shot" ride thats on top of the Stratosphere. They have outdoor tracks, go ca t track....odd place.

Few motorcycles, but they did have all kinds of four wheeled machines. Might as well call them small jeeps. Probably close to 50 of them, so it let me know what was selling.

My next stop was Wal Mart, and in looking at people, it made sense. Without exaggerating, at least half of the peopel there were too large to ride any motorcycle, btu a four wheeled cart was a possibility.



9/5/2014 7:27am
I'm a two-stroke diehard myself. But I don't give a fuck what anyone else rides, and quite frankly, I enjoy being the only 2-banger racing competitively around here. I actually steer people away from the "ringy dingy stinky oily pieces of shit" because it drives the resale value down if no one wants them. I don't care what Villopoto rides either. I know what I like, and that's what I ride.
TeamGreen
Posts
36662
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
9/5/2014 9:33am
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

9/5/2014 9:40am
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

unequal displacement is why. But the sanctioning body will not change it. What is MORE LIKELY to happen at this point, is an entirely new sanctioning body/promoter. (Say it ain't so)


The last round of the Aussie MX nationals saw a 63HP Husqvarna 250 holeshot by about a decade.

300cc two-strokes are legal in FIM MX1 starting at Qatar in 2015. We'll see if the U.S. side will follow suit.

Level headed two-stroke enthusiasts don't care about what the pros are racing. they just want a CHOICE. and I'm sorry, but a Beta, Ossa, Fantic, and GasGas aren't choices. People want to see a CR250R and a CRF450 sitting next to each other with equal chassis and engine development, and I dont think that's too much to ask.
YZ125H1
Posts
814
Joined
1/31/2012
Location
Elizabethtown, PA US
9/5/2014 10:09am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2014 10:10am
mxdude105 wrote:
Agree The reason the MFGs switched to 4-strokes was due to the AMA class rules and the overwhelming 4-stroke sales in the early-mid 2000's. The reason...
Agree

The reason the MFGs switched to 4-strokes was due to the AMA class rules and the overwhelming 4-stroke sales in the early-mid 2000's.

The reason they (Honda, Kawi, Suz) won't offer 2-strokes anymore....they've figured out it's far more lucrative to sell and service 4 strokes, and when things go boom riders simply buy a new one instead of repairing what they've got.

I guess it's good that Yamaha still sells 2-strokes, but it's kind of a joke how they do it. Going on 9 years now with no changes to the 125/250 other than graphics and plastics, yet somehow the prices have crept up to what, 7k? KTM is the only one taking two strokes seriously, and if it was my money that's the only new two stroke I'd consider.
I do not really see much Yamaha could change on the YZ250. The motor is pretty much perfect along with the suspension and reliability of the bike. I could see adding better brakes and possibly a hydra clutch. I'm glad they finally updated the plastics this year. You may be paying 6G for an old bike but its brand new and who does not like brand new. I wish they would go along with KTM and put a chromoly style frame instead of the aluminum one. As cool as it would be to have DI on a 2 stroke, I do not think they should make their way onto the MX bikes. 2 strokes are all about being simple and easy for the owner to fix problems without having to go to a dealer.

**May be even punch it out to a 300?
englishman
Posts
2779
Joined
3/7/2008
Location
England GB
9/5/2014 10:15am
HONDA
Tracktor
Posts
2343
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
The RTF/Amboy, WA US
9/5/2014 10:21am
I like dirtbikes.....................
Spartacus
Posts
2269
Joined
5/20/2011
Location
PW US
9/5/2014 10:47am
Kinda interesting how [in my MX time], Mx was a European sport totally dominated by Euro bikes. There were still a couple 4T racing then but their day was over. Japanese bikes took over and 'Merican riders as well but now the 2T Euro bikes are making a come back [slowly/quietly] as well as their riders.

Disclaimers; I know, I know their have always been great riders abroad.

I personally think the Japanese would rather stop involvement in MX/SX before they import a 2T into America again. [Yamaha not withstanding]

9/5/2014 10:54am
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

they're faster, easier to ride, and people are still buying them?
Josh422
Posts
1091
Joined
4/29/2008
Location
Joshougal, WA US
9/5/2014 11:11am
Look at moto today.

Two years ago I was at the track and overheard a gang of kids chatting and bench racing. Someone rode by on a bike that was maybe 4 years old at the time. Somewhere in the convo I heard "Bet that thing rides like crap".

There is a large part of motocross today that goes like this:

If your bike isn't current model, and you don't have a fresh set of gear head to toe, you aren't shit.

As long as they are selling us disposable gear, disposable bikes and disposable ideas, we are gonna buy em.

Post a reply to: Why manufacturers will never go back to two strokes

The Latest