Remember when Pros

SpotMeBro
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Edited Date/Time 8/25/2014 3:33pm
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and Thursday Races. Ascot Friday nights, always a CMC or CRC series on Sat and Sundays, or both!
Golden State nationals, summer series, Trans-Cals in the Fall.

And the big name pros came out too alot of times.
Sometimes the Golden State races may have well been a AMA Pro national, because all were there.

Is that possible now? Or is the pay too small and bikes too expensive?



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zippy895
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Daytona Beach, FL, USA
8/24/2014 9:45am
SpotMeBro wrote:
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and...
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and Thursday Races. Ascot Friday nights, always a CMC or CRC series on Sat and Sundays, or both!
Golden State nationals, summer series, Trans-Cals in the Fall.

And the big name pros came out too alot of times.
Sometimes the Golden State races may have well been a AMA Pro national, because all were there.

Is that possible now? Or is the pay too small and bikes too expensive?



I may be going off here on another topic,but if schools supplied bikes,like they do with football/baseball/basketball,etc,and the student supplied his or her own gear and expenses.would races like you mentioned still exist?
sure motor sports cost more than ball sports,but if there is a will,theres a way.
ML512
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Fantasy
8/24/2014 9:48am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2014 9:49am
SpotMeBro wrote:
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and...
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and Thursday Races. Ascot Friday nights, always a CMC or CRC series on Sat and Sundays, or both!
Golden State nationals, summer series, Trans-Cals in the Fall.

And the big name pros came out too alot of times.
Sometimes the Golden State races may have well been a AMA Pro national, because all were there.

Is that possible now? Or is the pay too small and bikes too expensive?



Few things:

Factory teams restrict what their riders can ride outside of team sponsored events. One main reason is that their bikes are quit expensive to maintain, that's unneeded events that aren't in the budget to have the rider, bike and a mechanic at.

The payout is so small it's really not worth it to these guys. Their off-weekends would be better spent being exactly that, an off-weekend.

Also, there aren't weeknight races out here anymore, and many of these series have died off or lost their previous support.
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 10:01am
Thanks.
I knew all the first part, I've seen lots of riders contracts over the last 10 years. Lots of restrictions.

I dont follow the local race scene too much anymore. I figured no weeknights really, but didnt realize these other series have died off. Thats too bad.



Kyle978
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8/24/2014 10:10am
Besides a few one-off events (Thursday night P.I.R. in Oregon, SX at Milestone etc.) the payout at local races is pitiful. Going 1-1 in 3 classes, the most you can bring in is usually about $500. When you factor in $100 in entries/gate fee, fuel to get there, tires and other wear parts...you don't make squat.

The Shop

Gringoe
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8/24/2014 10:34am
Kyle978 wrote:
Besides a few one-off events (Thursday night P.I.R. in Oregon, SX at Milestone etc.) the payout at local races is pitiful. Going 1-1 in 3 classes...
Besides a few one-off events (Thursday night P.I.R. in Oregon, SX at Milestone etc.) the payout at local races is pitiful. Going 1-1 in 3 classes, the most you can bring in is usually about $500. When you factor in $100 in entries/gate fee, fuel to get there, tires and other wear parts...you don't make squat.
And there isn't even really a race on the east coast within reasonable driving distance every weekend you can hit let alone 2-3.

And 500 is pretty damn high for down here..some these races you win both a classes and don't even get close to making your money back. It's a shit show

4 strokes
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 10:38am
Kyle978 wrote:
Besides a few one-off events (Thursday night P.I.R. in Oregon, SX at Milestone etc.) the payout at local races is pitiful. Going 1-1 in 3 classes...
Besides a few one-off events (Thursday night P.I.R. in Oregon, SX at Milestone etc.) the payout at local races is pitiful. Going 1-1 in 3 classes, the most you can bring in is usually about $500. When you factor in $100 in entries/gate fee, fuel to get there, tires and other wear parts...you don't make squat.
Wow. Guys were making 3-4 times that in the mid 80s racing 125 and 250 pro on a single day.
Only a few raced open also.

Guess it was more entries, those 110% Pro payout deals.


8/24/2014 10:40am
And here comes the two vs. four stroke debate. It's not about that though. The economy is too shitty. Nobody has any money to burn except for that Smartop guy.
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 10:51am
Gringoe wrote:
And there isn't even really a race on the east coast within reasonable driving distance every weekend you can hit let alone 2-3. And 500 is...
And there isn't even really a race on the east coast within reasonable driving distance every weekend you can hit let alone 2-3.

And 500 is pretty damn high for down here..some these races you win both a classes and don't even get close to making your money back. It's a shit show

4 strokes
Man, this is hard for me to wrap my head around. Why would anyone want to do this anymore?

Back in the day, lots of guys made a damn decent living racing local pro, I mean a really nice living compared to some bullshit job, and way more fun.

Some of these guys racing 2-3 days/nights a week, were doing pretty damn well!

I know guys that would show up for Friday Ascot races, and go straight to a CRC or CMC race on Saturday and do no maintainence really, other than check the bolts, spokes and gas since the Filter was still clean.
The Sat night, wash it up, clean the filter, and race somewhere Sunday.

Usually they all ran whatever series was happening, and got lots of contingencies and prizes/product too.



oilman400
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Winters, CA, USA
8/24/2014 11:02am
I remember when I used to love going to local races, walking the tracks and shooting photos. now your just supposed to sit behind the fence? just not the same not being able to see every different part of the track and getting roosted.
steve_97060
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8/24/2014 11:22am
less riders, less tracks, less races, not rocket surgery...

this sport is trending down..
Sully22
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8/24/2014 11:41am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2014 11:44am
Kyle978 wrote:
Besides a few one-off events (Thursday night P.I.R. in Oregon, SX at Milestone etc.) the payout at local races is pitiful. Going 1-1 in 3 classes...
Besides a few one-off events (Thursday night P.I.R. in Oregon, SX at Milestone etc.) the payout at local races is pitiful. Going 1-1 in 3 classes, the most you can bring in is usually about $500. When you factor in $100 in entries/gate fee, fuel to get there, tires and other wear parts...you don't make squat.
What's the track payout at those races? Yamaha contingency would pay $400 total, $200 each A class, for a golden state national,....then $200 total for winning both classes at a PAC west or trans cal. That royally sucks!! I remember making about $400 in contingency per race win for the intermediate classes at golden states, PAC west, trans cal, and gfi, back in the early to mid 90's. Man, times are a changin'.

Nevermind...I think you were talking about local race payout, not with contingency. I'd be curious to know what a guy could make between track purse and contingency at a bigger race like cmc or gfi events.
The Rock
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8/24/2014 12:11pm
less riders, less tracks, less races, not rocket surgery...

this sport is trending down..
More jumps more injuries more money all add up to more reasons NOT to race.

This is a serious long term problem IMHO that won't go away if we don't aggressively address it. We need safer (don't expect a MX track to be safe) tracks and longer motos to keep people racing. The days of people being content being at the track for 8 plus hours to only race two 4 or 5 lap motos are long gone.
captmoto
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8/24/2014 12:16pm
zippy895 wrote:
I may be going off here on another topic,but if schools supplied bikes,like they do with football/baseball/basketball,etc,and the student supplied his or her own gear and...
I may be going off here on another topic,but if schools supplied bikes,like they do with football/baseball/basketball,etc,and the student supplied his or her own gear and expenses.would races like you mentioned still exist?
sure motor sports cost more than ball sports,but if there is a will,theres a way.
Schools supply next to nothing around here. Boosters fund raise to keep it going. I recall the local football coach saying that the school budget for the team was barely enough to refurb the helmets every year. An $8-$10k bike even every 3 years is a wet dream that would never happen.
zippy895
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8/24/2014 12:38pm
zippy895 wrote:
I may be going off here on another topic,but if schools supplied bikes,like they do with football/baseball/basketball,etc,and the student supplied his or her own gear and...
I may be going off here on another topic,but if schools supplied bikes,like they do with football/baseball/basketball,etc,and the student supplied his or her own gear and expenses.would races like you mentioned still exist?
sure motor sports cost more than ball sports,but if there is a will,theres a way.
captmoto wrote:
Schools supply next to nothing around here. Boosters fund raise to keep it going. I recall the local football coach saying that the school budget for...
Schools supply next to nothing around here. Boosters fund raise to keep it going. I recall the local football coach saying that the school budget for the team was barely enough to refurb the helmets every year. An $8-$10k bike even every 3 years is a wet dream that would never happen.
it would have to be a ton of schools working as one moto x team.maybe even one per state...
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 12:56pm
High school moto had just died out here when I went to high school.

Speaking of safer tracks.........Ever been to a speedway race? Not a single jump and that shit is intense!

Its like the first turn chaos the whole race. Costa Mesa races used to be a packed house. Not sure how that is holding up.

steve_97060
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8/24/2014 1:05pm
this sport is dangerous and expensive and is getting more so every year..

explain to me what is the incentive for more people to get involved?
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 1:11pm
this sport is dangerous and expensive and is getting more so every year..

explain to me what is the incentive for more people to get involved?
SpotMeBro wrote:
Man, this is hard for me to wrap my head around. Why would anyone want to do this anymore?
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 1:18pm
The Rock wrote:
More jumps more injuries more money all add up to more reasons NOT to race. This is a serious long term problem IMHO that won't go...
More jumps more injuries more money all add up to more reasons NOT to race.

This is a serious long term problem IMHO that won't go away if we don't aggressively address it. We need safer (don't expect a MX track to be safe) tracks and longer motos to keep people racing. The days of people being content being at the track for 8 plus hours to only race two 4 or 5 lap motos are long gone.
My last race was an all day affair for practice and 1 moto while waiting for another ambulance to show up.
It did, by dark(winter time).
Some didn't even race 1 moto, but at least they got their entry fee back.

The next day we went and rode Beaumont because it rained all night. Just riding made it fun again.
Practice days and poaching banned ride spots is 10 times more fun than actually racing.






zippy895
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8/24/2014 1:28pm
this sport is dangerous and expensive and is getting more so every year..

explain to me what is the incentive for more people to get involved?
car racing is dangerous and expensive.
when we turn of age,all we want is a car(young age)
everybody has cars as soon as they are able.out of those millions of young people, enough take a step furture..car racing.also tons of car racing fans.
motorcycles are lame in the eyes of the majority of youngsters....compared to cars.
and for what its worth cars are more expensive in the long run and just as dangerous..in this day and age.
why not take public transportation or walk or cycle or well motorcycle?
you realize multiple dui/dwi offenders wont even opt the options,they will drive illegally.
point of my rant. push/sell motorbikes at young age,schools,etc.
Squid-mom
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8/24/2014 3:12pm
Sully22 wrote:
What's the track payout at those races? Yamaha contingency would pay $400 total, $200 each A class, for a golden state national,....then $200 total for winning...
What's the track payout at those races? Yamaha contingency would pay $400 total, $200 each A class, for a golden state national,....then $200 total for winning both classes at a PAC west or trans cal. That royally sucks!! I remember making about $400 in contingency per race win for the intermediate classes at golden states, PAC west, trans cal, and gfi, back in the early to mid 90's. Man, times are a changin'.

Nevermind...I think you were talking about local race payout, not with contingency. I'd be curious to know what a guy could make between track purse and contingency at a bigger race like cmc or gfi events.
Want to earn $400 in contingency from Yamaha these days, you better podium in two classes at LL. Contingency is laughable these days.
8/24/2014 3:23pm
I remember being on the line at Indian Dunes in 82 for a big purse race and looking down the line and seeing Johhny O, Jeff Ward and 6 more top 10 nationa l 125 riders from that yesr.

I also remember making $4200 at a Golden State in 83 for two classes.

Times seemed much better then.
tp4
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8/24/2014 3:37pm
UpTiTe wrote:
I remember being on the line at Indian Dunes in 82 for a big purse race and looking down the line and seeing Johhny O, Jeff...
I remember being on the line at Indian Dunes in 82 for a big purse race and looking down the line and seeing Johhny O, Jeff Ward and 6 more top 10 nationa l 125 riders from that yesr.

I also remember making $4200 at a Golden State in 83 for two classes.

Times seemed much better then.
i remember being on the line for saddleback saturdays...250 pros.. was like a national..I would try my hardest and still finish out of the top ten...it was gold back then.
Kyle978
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8/24/2014 7:28pm
Sully22 wrote:
What's the track payout at those races? Yamaha contingency would pay $400 total, $200 each A class, for a golden state national,....then $200 total for winning...
What's the track payout at those races? Yamaha contingency would pay $400 total, $200 each A class, for a golden state national,....then $200 total for winning both classes at a PAC west or trans cal. That royally sucks!! I remember making about $400 in contingency per race win for the intermediate classes at golden states, PAC west, trans cal, and gfi, back in the early to mid 90's. Man, times are a changin'.

Nevermind...I think you were talking about local race payout, not with contingency. I'd be curious to know what a guy could make between track purse and contingency at a bigger race like cmc or gfi events.
Cash paying contingency on a local level doesn't really exist as far as I know. That all went away when the economy took a dump. The best I've got since then was "Yamabucks" which I could only use on OEM Yamaha parts at a dealership. In 07, I was an intermediate and I had a Visa from Kawi. If I won both intermediate classes I got $400-600 put on my card depending on what series I was at.

Even in 2009 local pro stuff paid about twice what it does now. The last time I raced in late 2012 I went 2-3 in 450 pro (10 riders in the class), and 1-2 in open pro (8 riders in the class) . I got handed $77 at the end of the day. I paid $35 per class in entry, and $20 in gate fee's for my girlfriend and I. So I lost $13 to wake up at 4 a.m. and drive 2 hours to race my ass off.

Every once in a while you'll find a track that gives you break and will give free pro entries, or pay 100 or 125% payback. But even then, most of the time when you do the math it's not even close.

This is why myself, and the majority of my buddies that raced are done racing. It just doesn't make sense to do it as anything more than a hobby.
Katoomey
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8/24/2014 7:45pm
SpotMeBro wrote:
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and...
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and Thursday Races. Ascot Friday nights, always a CMC or CRC series on Sat and Sundays, or both!
Golden State nationals, summer series, Trans-Cals in the Fall.

And the big name pros came out too alot of times.
Sometimes the Golden State races may have well been a AMA Pro national, because all were there.

Is that possible now? Or is the pay too small and bikes too expensive?



your comparing now, to a time when millions of people enjoyed riding dirt bikes.

people aren't that interested in dirtbikes anymore. plain and simple. the interest has been waning for the last 30 years. (i know that doesn't fall in line with the retarded theories that 4-strokes killed bike sales but it's the facts)

so...of course there isn't any money for local racing, because no one is interested outside of the guys who show up to bang bars.
cz2crf2wc
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8/24/2014 8:39pm
SpotMeBro wrote:
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and...
Like Ron Turner, Tim Rutherford, Gary Denton, and guys like that made a living racing 3 -4 nights/days per week local series? There were Wed and Thursday Races. Ascot Friday nights, always a CMC or CRC series on Sat and Sundays, or both!
Golden State nationals, summer series, Trans-Cals in the Fall.

And the big name pros came out too alot of times.
Sometimes the Golden State races may have well been a AMA Pro national, because all were there.

Is that possible now? Or is the pay too small and bikes too expensive?



Ascot was Weds Irwindale was Friday nights. Lyons,El Cajon, El Toro, Baymare? and maybe even a few other tracks raced nights. The guys going for the CMC #1 plate could race 5 days a week. Weekends there were too many tracks to list.
Motoxdoc
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8/24/2014 9:08pm
In the early 80's you could race Ascot Weds, OCIR Thurs, Fri either Indian Dunes or Corona raceway and Sat, Sun Saddleback. Of course on most Sundays there were any number of So. Cal. tracks to race at....but Saddleback was my favorite! There were 4 CMC points races a month.....Saddleback, Sunrise Valley Cycle Park (now Racetwon 395), Carlsbad and Ascot.....every once in a while they would throw in a double points race in Ensenada Mex, Otay Mex or Zion Park Utah. Those were the days! Then in 1984 Saddleback closed, then the Dunes etc. etc. etc.....and the innocence of MX and my youth were gone.Sad
The Rock
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8/24/2014 9:48pm
this sport is dangerous and expensive and is getting more so every year..

explain to me what is the incentive for more people to get involved?
Great question. The best answer I have is because it is the greatest sport on the planet. There are no better people anywhere than moto people.

The issue from my vantage point is we've made "dirt biking" too exclusive with the way the tracks have gone the last 20 years. I would like to see tracks offer scramble type tracks that ANYONE with basic motorcycle skills can circulate on plus have tracks utilize the perimeter of their facilities with a trail so dual sport folks can have some fun too.

We need a feeder device to get people interested in getting on a track....right now I can't think of any that exist.
cz2crf2wc
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8/24/2014 10:06pm
The Rock wrote:
Great question. The best answer I have is because it is the greatest sport on the planet. There are no better people anywhere than moto people...
Great question. The best answer I have is because it is the greatest sport on the planet. There are no better people anywhere than moto people.

The issue from my vantage point is we've made "dirt biking" too exclusive with the way the tracks have gone the last 20 years. I would like to see tracks offer scramble type tracks that ANYONE with basic motorcycle skills can circulate on plus have tracks utilize the perimeter of their facilities with a trail so dual sport folks can have some fun too.

We need a feeder device to get people interested in getting on a track....right now I can't think of any that exist.
Good post Saddleback and Indian Dunes are perfect examples of a place someone could go and just ride around then get the racing bug when they were ready.
Cancerman
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8/24/2014 10:27pm Edited Date/Time 8/24/2014 10:29pm
Motoxdoc wrote:
In the early 80's you could race Ascot Weds, OCIR Thurs, Fri either Indian Dunes or Corona raceway and Sat, Sun Saddleback. Of course on most...
In the early 80's you could race Ascot Weds, OCIR Thurs, Fri either Indian Dunes or Corona raceway and Sat, Sun Saddleback. Of course on most Sundays there were any number of So. Cal. tracks to race at....but Saddleback was my favorite! There were 4 CMC points races a month.....Saddleback, Sunrise Valley Cycle Park (now Racetwon 395), Carlsbad and Ascot.....every once in a while they would throw in a double points race in Ensenada Mex, Otay Mex or Zion Park Utah. Those were the days! Then in 1984 Saddleback closed, then the Dunes etc. etc. etc.....and the innocence of MX and my youth were gone.Sad
Been there, done that^^ I grew up in Lakewood. After Saddleback and the Dunes went down, Irwindale, OCIR,DeAnza, etc.I feel the same as you.
Cygnus
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8/25/2014 7:31am
this sport is dangerous and expensive and is getting more so every year..

explain to me what is the incentive for more people to get involved?
The Rock wrote:
Great question. The best answer I have is because it is the greatest sport on the planet. There are no better people anywhere than moto people...
Great question. The best answer I have is because it is the greatest sport on the planet. There are no better people anywhere than moto people.

The issue from my vantage point is we've made "dirt biking" too exclusive with the way the tracks have gone the last 20 years. I would like to see tracks offer scramble type tracks that ANYONE with basic motorcycle skills can circulate on plus have tracks utilize the perimeter of their facilities with a trail so dual sport folks can have some fun too.

We need a feeder device to get people interested in getting on a track....right now I can't think of any that exist.
That's how my place is set up. I have the pro MX track with big jumps doubles tabletops step ups. Then I have the from 20 acres set up as a corner track with a 1/5 mile oval and a mini track track for the little kids only. I had people bring out the whole family and they can bring go carts and side by sides and have a place to rip up some dirt . Help we've even ran junker cars out on the front corner track like rally racing. I love living here!

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