Loretta's women's/men 14+

Squid-mom wrote:

Of course a win is never guaranteed. But, if the "plan" was merely to compete, why not do it in a gender neutral class?

GuyB wrote:

I think it'd be quite a stretch to think that's the case.

hvaughn88 wrote:

Absolutely agree. Just curious how much the narrative would change.

Crisp BRAAAP! wrote:

I say if you're committed enough to cut your ding-ding off you deserve a $20 trophy.

GuyB wrote:

I can't speak to what her agenda was...or if there was one. I passed along some news that I learned yesterday. I also try to keep...

I can't speak to what her agenda was...or if there was one.

I passed along some news that I learned yesterday. I also try to keep the peace here. I guess that's my agenda.

What's yours?

48fordcoe wrote:

This what you do to win at LL ,so next year there could be a bunch of used to be man jumping in to the woman...

This what you do to win at LL ,so next year there could be a bunch of used to be man jumping in to the woman class..so one day there will be 2 woman call 1 for the real woman and the Frankenstein woman .i think LL should be Boycotted till the Frankenstein class is up and running..or how about reward of $1000.00 dollars to any girl how take the Frankenstein girl out per moto..with own 3% of people with this problem 97 % have to suck it up

GuyB wrote:

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can...

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can now watch from the sidelines. We won't be a happy harbor of hate speech or harassment.

As I understand it, the AMA initially disqualified the rider in question, and replaced her with another rider. But after doing more research, it was discovered that they had erred from a legal standpoint. That's why you now have 43 finalists.

From Wikipedia...
"In the United States, classifying a person's sex as male or female is a power which is left to the jurisdiction of the states. As is the case throughout the world, the degree to which a given state recognizes a transsexual person as his or her desired sex varies and is dependent on factors such as the "steps" the person has taken in his or her transition, such as psychological therapy, hormone therapy, and sex reassignment surgery (SRS)."

From what I've been told, getting a new birth certificate in her state is not an easy or simple process, and that it'd satisfy even the most most strict interpretation of what what required for gender reassignment.

And one final note. Much has been made of muscle mass. As noted here (http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/tmf_progra…), "A good deal of the size that is normally attributed to large or broad shoulders, arms and chest is actually contained in upper body muscle mass—not bones. Through the process of feminization much of the upper body bulk will disappear."

If we're going to have a discussion on this, let's at least make it a rational one.

GuyB wrote:

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can...

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can now watch from the sidelines. We won't be a happy harbor of hate speech or harassment.

As I understand it, the AMA initially disqualified the rider in question, and replaced her with another rider. But after doing more research, it was discovered that they had erred from a legal standpoint. That's why you now have 43 finalists.

From Wikipedia...
"In the United States, classifying a person's sex as male or female is a power which is left to the jurisdiction of the states. As is the case throughout the world, the degree to which a given state recognizes a transsexual person as his or her desired sex varies and is dependent on factors such as the "steps" the person has taken in his or her transition, such as psychological therapy, hormone therapy, and sex reassignment surgery (SRS)."

From what I've been told, getting a new birth certificate in her state is not an easy or simple process, and that it'd satisfy even the most most strict interpretation of what what required for gender reassignment.

And one final note. Much has been made of muscle mass. As noted here (http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/tmf_progra…), "A good deal of the size that is normally attributed to large or broad shoulders, arms and chest is actually contained in upper body muscle mass—not bones. Through the process of feminization much of the upper body bulk will disappear."

If we're going to have a discussion on this, let's at least make it a rational one.

Tracktor wrote:

I think it's pretty rational to say if you were born with a penis you aren't a woman........................(did you really type "happy harbor of hate speech...

I think it's pretty rational to say if you were born with a penis you aren't a woman........................(did you really type "happy harbor of hate speech or harassment"?)..........................

GuyB wrote:

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can...

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can now watch from the sidelines. We won't be a happy harbor of hate speech or harassment.

As I understand it, the AMA initially disqualified the rider in question, and replaced her with another rider. But after doing more research, it was discovered that they had erred from a legal standpoint. That's why you now have 43 finalists.

From Wikipedia...
"In the United States, classifying a person's sex as male or female is a power which is left to the jurisdiction of the states. As is the case throughout the world, the degree to which a given state recognizes a transsexual person as his or her desired sex varies and is dependent on factors such as the "steps" the person has taken in his or her transition, such as psychological therapy, hormone therapy, and sex reassignment surgery (SRS)."

From what I've been told, getting a new birth certificate in her state is not an easy or simple process, and that it'd satisfy even the most most strict interpretation of what what required for gender reassignment.

And one final note. Much has been made of muscle mass. As noted here (http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/tmf_progra…), "A good deal of the size that is normally attributed to large or broad shoulders, arms and chest is actually contained in upper body muscle mass—not bones. Through the process of feminization much of the upper body bulk will disappear."

If we're going to have a discussion on this, let's at least make it a rational one.

GuyB wrote:

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can...

The most disgusting part of all this? Some of the threats (veiled and not-so-veiled) that people have tossed around here. A couple of those people can now watch from the sidelines. We won't be a happy harbor of hate speech or harassment.

As I understand it, the AMA initially disqualified the rider in question, and replaced her with another rider. But after doing more research, it was discovered that they had erred from a legal standpoint. That's why you now have 43 finalists.

From Wikipedia...
"In the United States, classifying a person's sex as male or female is a power which is left to the jurisdiction of the states. As is the case throughout the world, the degree to which a given state recognizes a transsexual person as his or her desired sex varies and is dependent on factors such as the "steps" the person has taken in his or her transition, such as psychological therapy, hormone therapy, and sex reassignment surgery (SRS)."

From what I've been told, getting a new birth certificate in her state is not an easy or simple process, and that it'd satisfy even the most most strict interpretation of what what required for gender reassignment.

And one final note. Much has been made of muscle mass. As noted here (http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/tmf_progra…), "A good deal of the size that is normally attributed to large or broad shoulders, arms and chest is actually contained in upper body muscle mass—not bones. Through the process of feminization much of the upper body bulk will disappear."

If we're going to have a discussion on this, let's at least make it a rational one.

danman wrote:

This person in question is built more like a man than a woman. I posted this before. Earlier this year, my son was riding at a...

This person in question is built more like a man than a woman. I posted this before. Earlier this year, my son was riding at a Wis track and David, Daniel, Danielle was there riding. Damn fast and good form, but it's a guys form. I've seen Jessica Patterson ride in person, the person in question ride in person, and a local lady that is pretty darn fast in her own right, Kirsten Raemisch. Kirsten and this person are pretty close in speed, but this person is built like a man and throws the bike around like a man. Maybe Jessica and Kirsten can throw it around like that, but I've never seen it.
Basically, I think you should be racing the gender class you were born with until you reach the age specific classes. Born a male, you should NEVER be able to race any Women's specific class. It all goes back to the hormones. If a post-op cuts back on the hormones, the male testosterone will kick back in, thus increasing the ability to build muscle mass, unlike a naturally born female.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if none of the other 42 women even showed up at the line.

team186 wrote:

I did not intend to post again but the comments on here are ridiculous about how men have so much more talent or natural ability than...

I did not intend to post again but the comments on here are ridiculous about how men have so much more talent or natural ability than women. Danielle has exposed the real problem in our sport, men actually think they are better than females and most ignorant ones talk the loudest. The other 42 girls should champion this opportunity, and welcome Danielle into the class. Given the right opportunity and chance girls will be as fast as anyone else on the track. You could question the logic of having 14yr olds race against Pro women in their mid-20’s and bike sizes ranging from 112 to 250 in this class?? Danielle’s (and several others in the class) real advantage is a 250 2-T lining up against superminis, not gender, not Danielle's entry into the class. Either way the women should not boycott, they need to go out and race hard, show the world why they deserve equal treatment, equal sponsorship and a better class structure. Ms. West's entry has also exposed that gender basis, is discrimination plain and simple. No laws or rules have been broke here. I'm sure she never intended to be a trailblazer, but it's clear to see why we needs laws in this area.

As Guy B has pointed there is no guarantee Danielle will win. Sounds like she’s already the LL champ according to you guys (and gals), I’ll bet Ms., Tricker, Markelon, Felicio and Hodges will have something to say about that.

Sounds like the most epic class this year at the Ranch won’t be the Pro Sport, B, 25+ or one with an old Honda in it…2014 is all about the Women Class, for that I thank you Danielle.

Good luck to all of you in the Womens Class.

Steve H.
BG KY.

team186 wrote:

I did not intend to post again but the comments on here are ridiculous about how men have so much more talent or natural ability than...

I did not intend to post again but the comments on here are ridiculous about how men have so much more talent or natural ability than women. Danielle has exposed the real problem in our sport, men actually think they are better than females and most ignorant ones talk the loudest. The other 42 girls should champion this opportunity, and welcome Danielle into the class. Given the right opportunity and chance girls will be as fast as anyone else on the track. You could question the logic of having 14yr olds race against Pro women in their mid-20’s and bike sizes ranging from 112 to 250 in this class?? Danielle’s (and several others in the class) real advantage is a 250 2-T lining up against superminis, not gender, not Danielle's entry into the class. Either way the women should not boycott, they need to go out and race hard, show the world why they deserve equal treatment, equal sponsorship and a better class structure. Ms. West's entry has also exposed that gender basis, is discrimination plain and simple. No laws or rules have been broke here. I'm sure she never intended to be a trailblazer, but it's clear to see why we needs laws in this area.

As Guy B has pointed there is no guarantee Danielle will win. Sounds like she’s already the LL champ according to you guys (and gals), I’ll bet Ms., Tricker, Markelon, Felicio and Hodges will have something to say about that.

Sounds like the most epic class this year at the Ranch won’t be the Pro Sport, B, 25+ or one with an old Honda in it…2014 is all about the Women Class, for that I thank you Danielle.

Good luck to all of you in the Womens Class.

Steve H.
BG KY.

moto38 wrote:

I dont know if youre retarded, high, or just stirring the pot. Women arent even close to as good as men in pretty much any sport...

I dont know if youre retarded, high, or just stirring the pot. Women arent even close to as good as men in pretty much any sport. Not being sexist, just being realidtic. A good high school boys basketball team will destroy a WNBA team all day long, same goes for hockey, soccer, any sport really.

You are on something my friend.