Rider Down @ Pax

OldTiddler
Profile picture for user OldTiddler
Posts
630
Joined
4/16/2007
Location
Longwood, FL US
OldTiddler 9/21/2008 12:33pm
9/21/2008 12:33pm
jtomasik wrote:
This is unfortunate. Best wishes to the boy's family. I'm about tired of the groomed freeways with huge jumps. Don't know about you, but it seems...
This is unfortunate. Best wishes to the boy's family.

I'm about tired of the groomed freeways with huge jumps. Don't know about you, but it seems that the really bad injuries have escalated. And, it seems that all of the big tracks must have the big jumps. Bring back the old school tracks. Don't groom them. The riders will have to ride slower, but they'll still have a blast. Heck, some of the best times for me is when the ruts are axle deep and full of water.

Sorry. Just a rant. Best wishes to the kid's family. Sorry to hear of their loss.
For the record, I don't know if Pax would qualify as "groomed" these days. Unfortunately, Florida has no natural terrain other than that of a flat beach (or in Pax' case, swamp-peat), so track builders literally have to build one from the ground up on what would normally just be a parking lot, and yes they usually just turn out looking more or less like a SX track. In Pax' case, it is among the worst. I won't ride there anymore, it is just horribly dangerous.

It can get very rough and rutted, but that's not the problem. The problem is that there are a ton of jumps, very tall ones, packed together tightly in a super-compressed track design. Riders are usually either in the air, or else in a trough between to large table tops, and because of the size and number of jumps, and the way that are packed together, it is impossible to do any kind of peripheral sighting and so be aware of any downed rider. If there's one track that needs flaggers, it that one. But they don't have any.
When I did ride there, I would see downed riders all the time, laying in the trough between jumps, and you have no idea until airborne. On my way out of there the last time, I talked to the lady at the gate and suggested a safer design. Apparently, the jumps are formed with concrete underneath, so they can't change a majority of it. Bye!

I don't know if any of this is pertinent to this specific horrible situation; regardless, I don't feel bad calling out unsafe tracks at all. That place caters to skill-less old guys who just like to get as much air as possible on their big, fat 450s. We could all use a few less of them, as well as the deathtrap tracks.
bvm111
Profile picture for user bvm111
Posts
10076
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
bvm111 9/21/2008 12:49pm
9/21/2008 12:49pm
I unfortunately witnessed a death at Canyon Raceway in AZ. The rider was a local police officer out for his second or third ride ever... good friend of mine didn’t see him on a blind jump, and landed on his upper back and neck with the cases of his 426. Base skull fracture... nasty deal I was about 30 feet behind and witnessed the whole thing. I didn’t ride for about 3 months after that.

My thoughts go out to the family of this young man, this is an unfortunate accident but He went doing what he loved!
yz125racer
Profile picture for user yz125racer
Posts
35
Joined
8/4/2008
Location
Medina, OH US
yz125racer 9/21/2008 6:34pm
9/21/2008 6:34pm
thats sad to hear..prayers to the family.
DCL36
Profile picture for user DCL36
Posts
249
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
DCL36 9/21/2008 11:32pm
9/21/2008 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:32pm
jtomasik wrote:
This is unfortunate. Best wishes to the boy's family. I'm about tired of the groomed freeways with huge jumps. Don't know about you, but it seems...
This is unfortunate. Best wishes to the boy's family.

I'm about tired of the groomed freeways with huge jumps. Don't know about you, but it seems that the really bad injuries have escalated. And, it seems that all of the big tracks must have the big jumps. Bring back the old school tracks. Don't groom them. The riders will have to ride slower, but they'll still have a blast. Heck, some of the best times for me is when the ruts are axle deep and full of water.

Sorry. Just a rant. Best wishes to the kid's family. Sorry to hear of their loss.
OldTiddler wrote:
For the record, I don't know if Pax would qualify as "groomed" these days. Unfortunately, Florida has no natural terrain other than that of a flat...
For the record, I don't know if Pax would qualify as "groomed" these days. Unfortunately, Florida has no natural terrain other than that of a flat beach (or in Pax' case, swamp-peat), so track builders literally have to build one from the ground up on what would normally just be a parking lot, and yes they usually just turn out looking more or less like a SX track. In Pax' case, it is among the worst. I won't ride there anymore, it is just horribly dangerous.

It can get very rough and rutted, but that's not the problem. The problem is that there are a ton of jumps, very tall ones, packed together tightly in a super-compressed track design. Riders are usually either in the air, or else in a trough between to large table tops, and because of the size and number of jumps, and the way that are packed together, it is impossible to do any kind of peripheral sighting and so be aware of any downed rider. If there's one track that needs flaggers, it that one. But they don't have any.
When I did ride there, I would see downed riders all the time, laying in the trough between jumps, and you have no idea until airborne. On my way out of there the last time, I talked to the lady at the gate and suggested a safer design. Apparently, the jumps are formed with concrete underneath, so they can't change a majority of it. Bye!

I don't know if any of this is pertinent to this specific horrible situation; regardless, I don't feel bad calling out unsafe tracks at all. That place caters to skill-less old guys who just like to get as much air as possible on their big, fat 450s. We could all use a few less of them, as well as the deathtrap tracks.
First off our family is going to be praying for the downed riders family.

This new trend of track building with all the blind jumps and insuffecient flagging is escalating, and it seems someone always goes down in a bad spot at least once a week and either theres no flagger or the flagger has no clue how to deal with the situation. at milestone at the trans cal race i watched a kid flip over a blind gap ate it hard and the flagger didnt know what to do he was standing in the gap totally out of the site of the oncoming riders, the next rider through narrowly missed the downed rider, these flaggers need to be trained to get in front of the blind jump immediately and wave the flag hard and high and get in the riders line of sight.

Like you guys mentioned the new track design styles really need to be looked at seriously, these tracks nowadays with these blazing fast bikes and huge jumps and gaps that just arent needed. how many times is this going to have to happen before we realize somethings wrong with the track designs. putting novices in situations where they feel they have to jump the huge gaps to be competitive just doesnt make sense thats why we keep hearing about these terrible crashes. why cant the tracks be more technical by being disked deeper and allowing the track to get rutted up and deeper. some of the gap jumps on these amateur tracks , one mistake or bike hiccup and youve got a real life superman situation. this has been a building frustration for me for sometime. I just really hope something clicks in the track owners and designers heads to make some changes before we keep losing more riders and tracks to lawsuits.

The Shop

See All »
Steve47
Profile picture for user Steve47
Posts
274
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Winter Springs, FL US
Steve47 9/22/2008 6:49am
9/22/2008 6:49am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:32pm
jtomasik wrote:
This is unfortunate. Best wishes to the boy's family. I'm about tired of the groomed freeways with huge jumps. Don't know about you, but it seems...
This is unfortunate. Best wishes to the boy's family.

I'm about tired of the groomed freeways with huge jumps. Don't know about you, but it seems that the really bad injuries have escalated. And, it seems that all of the big tracks must have the big jumps. Bring back the old school tracks. Don't groom them. The riders will have to ride slower, but they'll still have a blast. Heck, some of the best times for me is when the ruts are axle deep and full of water.

Sorry. Just a rant. Best wishes to the kid's family. Sorry to hear of their loss.
OldTiddler wrote:
For the record, I don't know if Pax would qualify as "groomed" these days. Unfortunately, Florida has no natural terrain other than that of a flat...
For the record, I don't know if Pax would qualify as "groomed" these days. Unfortunately, Florida has no natural terrain other than that of a flat beach (or in Pax' case, swamp-peat), so track builders literally have to build one from the ground up on what would normally just be a parking lot, and yes they usually just turn out looking more or less like a SX track. In Pax' case, it is among the worst. I won't ride there anymore, it is just horribly dangerous.

It can get very rough and rutted, but that's not the problem. The problem is that there are a ton of jumps, very tall ones, packed together tightly in a super-compressed track design. Riders are usually either in the air, or else in a trough between to large table tops, and because of the size and number of jumps, and the way that are packed together, it is impossible to do any kind of peripheral sighting and so be aware of any downed rider. If there's one track that needs flaggers, it that one. But they don't have any.
When I did ride there, I would see downed riders all the time, laying in the trough between jumps, and you have no idea until airborne. On my way out of there the last time, I talked to the lady at the gate and suggested a safer design. Apparently, the jumps are formed with concrete underneath, so they can't change a majority of it. Bye!

I don't know if any of this is pertinent to this specific horrible situation; regardless, I don't feel bad calling out unsafe tracks at all. That place caters to skill-less old guys who just like to get as much air as possible on their big, fat 450s. We could all use a few less of them, as well as the deathtrap tracks.
Now hold down for heaven's sake!!!!!

I'm really sorry to hear about this guy but to say that Pax is a dangerous track is absolutely ridiculous!

The track is pretty wide, got some of the best dirt around and all the jumps are filled tabletops now with big ramps and big smooth landing. The jump faces are rarely rutted and the track is always in great shape. With that said, it really could use some flaggers but the layout is really cool and not dangerous at all.

Hell, if you want to be picky, Bithlo is probably worst with 2 big triples and softer dirt so the faces get rutted up. Hard Rock is even worst with concrete like dirt and big jumps. Now if you talk about Ace, hell it's a mini bike track. Shit, you can get hurt pretty bad riding an open field on a dirtbike. I'm not saying nothing needs to be done but sheesh, that track is no more dangerous than any other track I've seen, in fact quite the opposite.

Now, blaming the track won't help one bit. All that without knowing how and where the guy crashed to begin with?
stat-line 9/22/2008 8:33am
9/22/2008 8:33am
Steve47 wrote:
Now hold down for heaven's sake!!!!! I'm really sorry to hear about this guy but to say that Pax is a dangerous track is absolutely ridiculous...
Now hold down for heaven's sake!!!!!

I'm really sorry to hear about this guy but to say that Pax is a dangerous track is absolutely ridiculous!

The track is pretty wide, got some of the best dirt around and all the jumps are filled tabletops now with big ramps and big smooth landing. The jump faces are rarely rutted and the track is always in great shape. With that said, it really could use some flaggers but the layout is really cool and not dangerous at all.

Hell, if you want to be picky, Bithlo is probably worst with 2 big triples and softer dirt so the faces get rutted up. Hard Rock is even worst with concrete like dirt and big jumps. Now if you talk about Ace, hell it's a mini bike track. Shit, you can get hurt pretty bad riding an open field on a dirtbike. I'm not saying nothing needs to be done but sheesh, that track is no more dangerous than any other track I've seen, in fact quite the opposite.

Now, blaming the track won't help one bit. All that without knowing how and where the guy crashed to begin with?
X2

It happens. This is a horrible story. The details of it are even more horrible. But...What is a promoter to do. He would have to hire 17 plus flaggers twice a week for about 15 hours a day. It can't be done and still run a business. I agree that something needs to be done for practice day flagging but what???? You legislate or otherwise demand promoters to flag every jump on every day and you will have nowhere to practice I promise you. Maybe the answer is warning lights on the jumps and one guy watching from a tower but If you don't understand that promoters are making a living and are not the avengers of death they will quit promoting and you will be riding on practice tracks in peoples yard where I promise there will not be one flagger. I hesitate to even post on here with my opionion. I have been racing for 20 years and my heart is broken several times a year with these stories. The internet has brought them to our attention much quicker these days but they have been there trust me. By the way I am not a promoter just a racer and I have a son racing these days so trust me I am not biased in this.
OldTiddler
Profile picture for user OldTiddler
Posts
630
Joined
4/16/2007
Location
Longwood, FL US
OldTiddler 9/22/2008 8:44am
9/22/2008 8:44am
For my part, I did acknowledge that Pax' design might not have been a factor in this accident, I was more responding to JThomasik's comments.

I guess what is considered safe is somewhat subjective. I actually think Bithlo is the safest around. They have a very hands-on management:

- Bithlo breaks up their practice into classes: Peewees / Minis / C+Beginner / A+B, which is strictly enforced
- Pax does not usually enforce any kind of split practice

- Bithlo has several flaggers
- Pax has no flaggers

- Bithlo has very few "blind" jumps. The jumps are built relatively short with adequate space between lanes for sighting and escape
- Pax' jumps are built up very tall jump, and very little space between lanes for sighting
rocrac
Profile picture for user rocrac
Posts
2454
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
rocrac 9/22/2008 10:19am
9/22/2008 10:19am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:32pm
I hate threads like this especially the blame game that always arises. RIP Bennet

For the record I do not think PAX is any more dangerous than other tracks out there.

I do think bike technology is far surpassing the average rider's ability and instilling a confidence to handle obstacles that they may not have in the past.

mxracer546
Profile picture for user mxracer546
Posts
120
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Jacksonville, FL US
mxracer546 9/22/2008 10:21am
9/22/2008 10:21am
Here is his Obituary out of the Jacksonville, FL newspaper:

Geiger Jr., Bennet Gordon

GEIGER Bennet Gordon Geiger Jr., 17, passed on Tuesday, September 16, 2008. Family will be accepting friends on Sunday, September 21, 2008 from 5-7 p.m. at Hardage Giddens Funeral Home, 11801 San Jose Blvd., Jacksonville, FL 32223. A funeral service will be held on Monday, September 22, 2008 at Fruit Cove Baptist Church at 3 p.m., 501 St. Rd 13, St. Johns with interment to follow at Jacksonville Memory Gardens. Ben was preceded in death by his great-grandparents Mr. and Mrs. H.H. Stovall and his uncle H. Stovall Jr., grandparents Melvin and Valerie Geiger. Ben is survived by his loving parents Bennet G. Geiger Sr., Patricia and Brad Haynes; sisters, Jennifer, Brittney, brothers, Caymon (Gail), Zackry, nieces Falin, Hunter, nephew Colton, maternal grandmother Sally Crowe, grandfather Jim Skelton (Joyce), paternal grandparents Larry (Virginia) Haynes, great-grandparents Gerald (Francis) Bright; aunts and uncles Mike (Wanda) Stovall, Jimmy (Lupe) Skelton, Lisa Hayes, Deeanna Short, Wesley (Donna) Geiger, John, Melvin, Kevin, James, Dennis, Sandy, Melody, Lenny, and Dwayne Geiger. Our dear son was wrapped in the Lord our Saviors arms while doing what he loved most, riding his motocross bike. He was born in Jacksonville, FL on April 30, 1991, he attended Living Waters Preschool, Millcreek Elementary, Switzerland Point and was a senior at Bartram Trail High School. He had many loving and wonderful friends. He loved to go to Wednesday night youth groups at church. He worked dutifully beside his father learning the Big Ben's Tree Service that one day he would take over for his father. When he was younger he enjoyed baseball, football, skateboarding, paintball, fishing and everything life had to offer. He was the sweetest, kindest, most affectionate son, grandson, brother, uncle, nephew, cousin, and friend that God had to offer and that we could ever ask for. He will always be in our hearts and in Gods arms. Memorial contributions may be made to Children's Home Society at chsfl.org/donate. Arrangements are under the care and trust of Hardage Giddens Funeral Home, 904-288-0025. Please visit www.mem.com to leave written or spoken tributes. Please Sign the Guestbook @ Jacksonville.com
rallendude
Profile picture for user rallendude
Posts
2203
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Adger, AL US
rallendude 9/22/2008 1:34pm
9/22/2008 1:34pm
God Speed Ben.

Someone in Florida is printing out all these "opinions" to use later.

A couple points I'd like to make. If your local track is operating in a manner you deem unsafe, let them know. Offer to help. Make suggestions. The excuse "a track owner can't afford to stay in business if he has to hire flaggers" is just no good anymore.

I know nothing about PAX so this is just a general statement towards the comments posted here. If a track owner can't offer a place that is as safe as possible (personally, I think this includes splitting up practice on bike size no matter how many are there and possibly positioning a bare minimum of flaggers if the track warrants) then they don't need to be in business for practice days. Just have races where these things can be afforded.

I used to go to open practices all the time. I've hit many downed riders. Sometimes it was friends or relatives that I was practicing with. Others is was total strangers. I've been hit. I've had narrow misses. Now my 9 y/o rides. I have thought about many hits I've given or taken and I can't afford to put him in a situation that could even remotely, possibly, expose him to that sort of impact. i wouldn't have him if it happened. So, we don't go to practices on tracks around here. We ride at home and race on the weekends. Open practices are the most dangerous activity we participate in as mxers in my opinion. We need to make a change. If some tracks can't afford to change, they need to step away until they can come up with an idea that allows them to do so.

Just my opinion. Once again, my condolences to the Geiger family. I know nothing of this situation revolving around PAX and the accident and my comments are pointed at our racing community in general, not at PAX.
DoesntMatter
Profile picture for user DoesntMatter
Posts
3
Joined
9/30/2008
Location
Jacksonville, FL US
DoesntMatter 9/30/2008 11:14am
9/30/2008 11:14am
THOUGHT YOU MIGHT ALL LIKE TO KNOW THAT YES, THIS GENTLEMAN DIED CUZ A RIDER LANDED ON HIM. THE YOUNG MAN DID FALL BUT WAS UNINJURED - THE OTHER BIKER CAME OVER THE JUMP AND DIRECLTY HIT HIM - TOTAL FREAK ACCIDENT, YES, BUT NO WARNING FOR THE YOUNG MAN WHO DIED NOR THE OTHER RIDER. HAD THERE BEEN SOME SAFETY PROCEDURE IN PLACE, THE RIDER WOULD HAVE KNOWN THERE WAS A MAN DOWN. THE INJURIES WERE MORE SEVERE THAT I AM EVEN WILLING TO PUT IN WRITING - YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE TRACK BUT KNOW I HAVE LEARNED ALOT FROM BEN'S FAMILY AND FRIENDS. THIS TRACK IS DANGEROUS AND I WOULD NEVER LET A CHILD OF MINE RIDE ON IT. REST ASSURED, BEN'S FAMILY WILL DO THEIR BEST TO ENSURE SAFETY CHANGES AND PROCEDURES ARE MADE SO THIS CANNOT HAPPEN TO ANOTHER RIDER. SO TRAGIC - SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED. JUST KNOW HE WAS A WONDERFUL YOUNG MAN - WAS A SENIOR THIS YEAR AND HAD SO MUCH GOING FOR HIM.
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 9/30/2008 11:18am
9/30/2008 11:18am
LAWSUIT!!!!!!!
Steve47
Profile picture for user Steve47
Posts
274
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Winter Springs, FL US
Steve47 9/30/2008 12:49pm
9/30/2008 12:49pm
There we ago again....

And for fuck sake, the cap lock is on the left side...
mjskier
Profile picture for user mjskier
Posts
1879
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CO US
mjskier 9/30/2008 1:36pm
9/30/2008 1:36pm
HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE TRACK BUT KNOW I HAVE LEARNED ALOT FROM BEN'S FAMILY AND FRIENDS. THIS TRACK IS DANGEROUS AND I WOULD NEVER LET A CHILD OF MINE RIDE ON IT. REST ASSURED, BEN'S FAMILY WILL DO THEIR BEST TO ENSURE SAFETY CHANGES AND PROCEDURES ARE MADE SO THIS CANNOT HAPPEN TO ANOTHER RIDER. SO TRAGIC - SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED

This is such bullshit. If the track was so dangerous why was he riding on it?
His parents didn't do their job, but now they want to fix things for other people?
Crash82
Profile picture for user Crash82
Posts
9020
Joined
9/16/2006
Location
MONTGOMERY, AL US
Crash82 9/30/2008 2:02pm
9/30/2008 2:02pm
I'm sorry to hear this.
DoesntMatter
Profile picture for user DoesntMatter
Posts
3
Joined
9/30/2008
Location
Jacksonville, FL US
DoesntMatter 10/1/2008 11:10am
10/1/2008 11:10am
Just thought everyone should know - Steve47 - the smartass - has a son of his own - both of their numbers are 47 - same number as Ben Geiger's, the young man that was killed on the track. Ironic, huh?
aedwards07
Profile picture for user aedwards07
Posts
944
Joined
5/17/2008
Location
st cloud, FL US
aedwards07 10/1/2008 4:50pm
10/1/2008 4:50pm
OldTiddler wrote:
For my part, I did acknowledge that Pax' design might not have been a factor in this accident, I was more responding to JThomasik's comments. I...
For my part, I did acknowledge that Pax' design might not have been a factor in this accident, I was more responding to JThomasik's comments.

I guess what is considered safe is somewhat subjective. I actually think Bithlo is the safest around. They have a very hands-on management:

- Bithlo breaks up their practice into classes: Peewees / Minis / C+Beginner / A+B, which is strictly enforced
- Pax does not usually enforce any kind of split practice

- Bithlo has several flaggers
- Pax has no flaggers

- Bithlo has very few "blind" jumps. The jumps are built relatively short with adequate space between lanes for sighting and escape
- Pax' jumps are built up very tall jump, and very little space between lanes for sighting
I agree with how Bithlo runs practice for sure.They have it set up so you really only need 2 flaggers on the track and they can do almost all the track and see the ENTIRE track.I broke my femur there in the middle of August and as soon as I crashed on the back tripple I looked up because I was afraid of someone landing on me.The flagger had the flag up and the on site medic was there in less than a minute.Though Susan(the person who runs the track)may come off alittle cold she really does care for the riders and their saftey.

Pax on the other hand is alittle different.I think the track in general(just the physical track) is a safer track because it is all forgiving tabletops.But then again almost all the jumps are blind and there is no flaggers.I think in the last year of living in Florida I have ran over a bike inbetween jumps or on a landing probably 5 or 6 times.Thats not from me being careless as I made every attempt to swerve when I saw them but I had no clue they were there until it was too late.If their was a few flaggers it would have been way different.

I think that Bithlo could change up their track alittle(they already changed the tripple and the table-singe isnt bad) but overall I think it is a way safer place.

Ifs it true that Ben was uninjured when he fell until he was hit then that is horrible.That makes me feel terrible for him AND the rider that hit him.I cant imagine how he feels after taking a fellow riders life.
jB324
Profile picture for user jB324
Posts
26
Joined
9/28/2008
Location
Mechanicsville, MD US
jB324 10/1/2008 5:14pm
10/1/2008 5:14pm
Our thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends.

Pit Row

See All »
Wadded_Up 10/1/2008 5:55pm
10/1/2008 5:55pm Edited Date/Time 10/1/2008 5:56pm
mjskier wrote:
[i]HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE TRACK BUT KNOW I HAVE LEARNED ALOT FROM BEN'S FAMILY AND FRIENDS. THIS TRACK IS DANGEROUS AND I WOULD NEVER LET...
HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE TRACK BUT KNOW I HAVE LEARNED ALOT FROM BEN'S FAMILY AND FRIENDS. THIS TRACK IS DANGEROUS AND I WOULD NEVER LET A CHILD OF MINE RIDE ON IT. REST ASSURED, BEN'S FAMILY WILL DO THEIR BEST TO ENSURE SAFETY CHANGES AND PROCEDURES ARE MADE SO THIS CANNOT HAPPEN TO ANOTHER RIDER. SO TRAGIC - SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED

This is such bullshit. If the track was so dangerous why was he riding on it?
His parents didn't do their job, but now they want to fix things for other people?
I can't believe no one responded to this peckerhead.....mjskier..........This is probably the most disgusting post I've ever read. You are the lowest form of scum. Kids are kids, parents can only do so much. He was riding the track because he loved the sport . His parents are not with him 24 hours a day. I hope the parents or family never see this post. This forum is hitting its lowest of low when an ass crack like this makes such a tasteless comment and nobody even calls him out. Absolutely disgusting. "His parents didn't do their job"? Your father didn't do his or he would have pulled out!
Wadded_Up 10/1/2008 6:30pm
10/1/2008 6:30pm
flarider wrote:
LAWSUIT!!!!!!!
And thats real cute, someone with your experience should know better and just shut up.
Jackass.
mjskier
Profile picture for user mjskier
Posts
1879
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CO US
mjskier 10/1/2008 9:37pm
10/1/2008 9:37pm
This is probably the most disgusting post I've ever read.

Oh please, spare me the knee jerk reaction. You might not be able to be with your kids 24 hours a day but it doesn't take much to go check how a track operates before you let them ride it. So coming after the fact to make sure that "it doesn't happen to some other kid" is just hypocrisy. All that it does it make a lawyer rich and close a track.
DoesntMatter
Profile picture for user DoesntMatter
Posts
3
Joined
9/30/2008
Location
Jacksonville, FL US
DoesntMatter 10/3/2008 9:38am
10/3/2008 9:38am
Thanks, Wadded Up. mjskier wasn't worth the comments, but you said it all. And, yes, I would hate the family to see some of this crap. Ben does, in fact, have wonderful parents and many others. Of course this was a tragic accident, for both Ben and the other rider - no one has ever questioned that. Oh - and by the way - this young man was a minor and was allowed to ride without an adult there, whom would have had to sign a waiver, which was unknown to his parents and something that had never, ever happened before. His parents were always right there doing what they could to ensure his safety and would not have wanted Ben to ride without another adult looking out for him which, again, were told there would be. This is no fault or lack of judgment on the parents. Their son was a great rider, but his safety came first and they were always right there rooting for him... and for the record, I would believe it is more unselfish of them to try to make the track safer for others when they, in fact, have lost their only son. It will not bring Ben back, so do you think they really would care to pursue that task if they were not truly selfless people? I do not think I could bear the name or thought of it if I lost one of my children.

mjskier missed the whole point, but not surprised.
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 10/3/2008 9:48am
10/3/2008 9:48am
DoesntMatter wrote:
Thanks, Wadded Up. mjskier wasn't worth the comments, but you said it all. And, yes, I would hate the family to see some of this crap...
Thanks, Wadded Up. mjskier wasn't worth the comments, but you said it all. And, yes, I would hate the family to see some of this crap. Ben does, in fact, have wonderful parents and many others. Of course this was a tragic accident, for both Ben and the other rider - no one has ever questioned that. Oh - and by the way - this young man was a minor and was allowed to ride without an adult there, whom would have had to sign a waiver, which was unknown to his parents and something that had never, ever happened before. His parents were always right there doing what they could to ensure his safety and would not have wanted Ben to ride without another adult looking out for him which, again, were told there would be. This is no fault or lack of judgment on the parents. Their son was a great rider, but his safety came first and they were always right there rooting for him... and for the record, I would believe it is more unselfish of them to try to make the track safer for others when they, in fact, have lost their only son. It will not bring Ben back, so do you think they really would care to pursue that task if they were not truly selfless people? I do not think I could bear the name or thought of it if I lost one of my children.

mjskier missed the whole point, but not surprised.
I am sorry the incident occured and for their loss, but your post is the biggest set up for a lawsuit I have ever seen on this forum and this is no reason or rational for suing a track.

Please let us know when the suit is filed so we can pay attention to it.

Godspeed to this young man, and maybe you could consider what would he do and what would he want.
Trinitite
Profile picture for user Trinitite
Posts
1253
Joined
12/31/2007
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
Trinitite 10/3/2008 9:52am
10/3/2008 9:52am
Terrible tragedy. RIP Ben.
Steve47
Profile picture for user Steve47
Posts
274
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Winter Springs, FL US
Steve47 10/3/2008 10:58am
10/3/2008 10:58am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:41pm
DoesntMatter wrote:
Thanks, Wadded Up. mjskier wasn't worth the comments, but you said it all. And, yes, I would hate the family to see some of this crap...
Thanks, Wadded Up. mjskier wasn't worth the comments, but you said it all. And, yes, I would hate the family to see some of this crap. Ben does, in fact, have wonderful parents and many others. Of course this was a tragic accident, for both Ben and the other rider - no one has ever questioned that. Oh - and by the way - this young man was a minor and was allowed to ride without an adult there, whom would have had to sign a waiver, which was unknown to his parents and something that had never, ever happened before. His parents were always right there doing what they could to ensure his safety and would not have wanted Ben to ride without another adult looking out for him which, again, were told there would be. This is no fault or lack of judgment on the parents. Their son was a great rider, but his safety came first and they were always right there rooting for him... and for the record, I would believe it is more unselfish of them to try to make the track safer for others when they, in fact, have lost their only son. It will not bring Ben back, so do you think they really would care to pursue that task if they were not truly selfless people? I do not think I could bear the name or thought of it if I lost one of my children.

mjskier missed the whole point, but not surprised.

OK, I'll bite this time! I stayed away from your personal attack and your nasty private email but let me tell you something... cause you seems to think you know me just by looking at my profile. For the record, I have 2 sons!

First, this is a terrible tragedy and I'm truly sorry to hear about this. As a parent, I can only imagine how devastating it would be and I would never wish that on my worst enemy, unlike you who seems to be wishing it on me by highlighting the fact that we have the same number.

My problem is that you came to this board on your first post ever and started shouting at us pretty much telling us that Pax is a dangerous track and implying that we are idiots to ride there and let our sons ride there. Do you really think we don't look up for our own sons? This is pretty disrespectfull on your part and if you think about it is also disrespectfull for Ben's family who actually did let their son ride on this track a bunch of time before. The track layout itself is very nice and no more dangerous than any other tracks out there!

I understand that you are probably close to these people and they suffered this terrible tragedy but it is no reason to come down on everyone else for doing the exact same thing they did, enjoyed and loved so much before it happened. I'm sure he was a great young man with very nice parents. We've never disputed that but don't come here and tell me I'm a bad one for riding out there. I don't appreciate it!

Sorry if you feel I was an asshole but I didn't like your tone and insinuations. Read your first post again with this in mind and you might see my point.



Godspeed Ben!
Steve47
Profile picture for user Steve47
Posts
274
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Winter Springs, FL US
Steve47 10/3/2008 11:05am
10/3/2008 11:05am
rocrac
Profile picture for user rocrac
Posts
2454
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
rocrac 10/3/2008 11:12am
10/3/2008 11:12am Edited Date/Time 10/3/2008 11:13am
DoesntMatter wrote:
Thanks, Wadded Up. mjskier wasn't worth the comments, but you said it all. And, yes, I would hate the family to see some of this crap...
Thanks, Wadded Up. mjskier wasn't worth the comments, but you said it all. And, yes, I would hate the family to see some of this crap. Ben does, in fact, have wonderful parents and many others. Of course this was a tragic accident, for both Ben and the other rider - no one has ever questioned that. Oh - and by the way - this young man was a minor and was allowed to ride without an adult there, whom would have had to sign a waiver, which was unknown to his parents and something that had never, ever happened before. His parents were always right there doing what they could to ensure his safety and would not have wanted Ben to ride without another adult looking out for him which, again, were told there would be. This is no fault or lack of judgment on the parents. Their son was a great rider, but his safety came first and they were always right there rooting for him... and for the record, I would believe it is more unselfish of them to try to make the track safer for others when they, in fact, have lost their only son. It will not bring Ben back, so do you think they really would care to pursue that task if they were not truly selfless people? I do not think I could bear the name or thought of it if I lost one of my children.

mjskier missed the whole point, but not surprised.
Steve47 wrote:
OK, I'll bite this time! I stayed away from your personal attack and your nasty private email but let me tell you something... cause you seems...

OK, I'll bite this time! I stayed away from your personal attack and your nasty private email but let me tell you something... cause you seems to think you know me just by looking at my profile. For the record, I have 2 sons!

First, this is a terrible tragedy and I'm truly sorry to hear about this. As a parent, I can only imagine how devastating it would be and I would never wish that on my worst enemy, unlike you who seems to be wishing it on me by highlighting the fact that we have the same number.

My problem is that you came to this board on your first post ever and started shouting at us pretty much telling us that Pax is a dangerous track and implying that we are idiots to ride there and let our sons ride there. Do you really think we don't look up for our own sons? This is pretty disrespectfull on your part and if you think about it is also disrespectfull for Ben's family who actually did let their son ride on this track a bunch of time before. The track layout itself is very nice and no more dangerous than any other tracks out there!

I understand that you are probably close to these people and they suffered this terrible tragedy but it is no reason to come down on everyone else for doing the exact same thing they did, enjoyed and loved so much before it happened. I'm sure he was a great young man with very nice parents. We've never disputed that but don't come here and tell me I'm a bad one for riding out there. I don't appreciate it!

Sorry if you feel I was an asshole but I didn't like your tone and insinuations. Read your first post again with this in mind and you might see my point.



Godspeed Ben!
Well said Steve.
andymoto
Profile picture for user andymoto
Posts
4771
Joined
11/28/2007
Location
Carmichael, CA US
andymoto 10/3/2008 11:14am
10/3/2008 11:14am
Condolances to the entire Geiger family and friends.
motosickness 10/8/2008 6:45pm
10/8/2008 6:45pm
There was an investigation done by local police. That investigation has been completed.
Apparently Ben got kicked over the bars on one of the smaller jumps at Pax and as he came down his own bike hit him in the back of the head. He was not landed on by any other riders. There were less then ten riders there at the time, one eye witness was quoted as saying that he was behind Ben and saw the crash, went to the front of the jump and no other bikes had gone over the jump after Ben's crash. I beleive that all of this is a matter of public record and can be obtained by anyone.

I had seen and riden with Ben at local tracks and have to say that although I didn't know him well, he was always nice, always in a good mood, truely loved by many, and is a great loss. It just wasn't anybody's fault! Sometimes things just happen...
Ben's Grandmother 10/24/2008 9:02pm
10/24/2008 9:02pm
I am Ben Geiger's grandmother. As much as I appreciate the sympathy of some, and am shocked at some of the comments that I hope my daughter and Ben's dad never read, I will say this:

This is an ongoing investigation; we do not know exactly what happened to my precious grandson and it may take a while.

Don't listen to rumors. Ben's parents do not want this to happen to another person, nor do I. Life is fragile. We'll miss Ben the rest of our lives; he was the light of our lives along with his precious sister and young niece.

Please be careful when you ride. God bless.

Post a reply to: Rider Down @ Pax