James Stewart is not a cheater

Hoov
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6/27/2014 6:40am
Nerd wrote:
If you had a non-ADHD class, there'd be like 14 people in it. And they'd just be undiagnosed. Your bias is showing. What's the difference between...
If you had a non-ADHD class, there'd be like 14 people in it. And they'd just be undiagnosed.

Your bias is showing.

What's the difference between medication for an ACTUAL, TRUE case of ADHD and, let's say, an Allsport Dynamics wrist brace?

If you have a fucked up wrist, that's your problem. My wrists are healthy. So, you shouldn't be allowed to wear wrist braces.

Is that fair? Is it good for the sport? Is it good for ANYONE except the people you would beat if you were allowed to wear a wrist brace?
yosmithy wrote:
Nevermind, you got too rabid about this. It was make believe and a simple scenario. Double your dosage sweetheart....

Dude's been trying to explain his article and position for 4 days and 23 pages...against all comers...I think he has shown remarkable restraint and self control in his responses to the comments in this thread. Great column and discussion here.
Crash82
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6/27/2014 7:29am
I think this thread pretty much shows Nerds state of mind, I have nothing against him and even sent him a nice message on twitter and PM's. His claim about my posts on Facebook were delusional, he can't see my posts he's been blocked for years. Anyway Nerd my offer still stands to bury the hatchet, if you ever need help or want to talk to someone i have a bunch of experience living with a twitchy brain. Peace.
Nerd
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6/27/2014 8:43am
Nerd wrote:
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success. ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most...
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success.

ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most to participate. That has nothing to do with how good you are at it.
Fraser wrote:
No, no, no. How can you possibly make that connection?
It's detailed in the column.

I'm not repeating myself. Read it if you'd like to understand the connection. If not, that's on you.
APLMAN99
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6/27/2014 9:05am
Nerd wrote:
If you had a non-ADHD class, there'd be like 14 people in it. And they'd just be undiagnosed. Your bias is showing. What's the difference between...
If you had a non-ADHD class, there'd be like 14 people in it. And they'd just be undiagnosed.

Your bias is showing.

What's the difference between medication for an ACTUAL, TRUE case of ADHD and, let's say, an Allsport Dynamics wrist brace?

If you have a fucked up wrist, that's your problem. My wrists are healthy. So, you shouldn't be allowed to wear wrist braces.

Is that fair? Is it good for the sport? Is it good for ANYONE except the people you would beat if you were allowed to wear a wrist brace?
yosmithy wrote:
Nevermind, you got too rabid about this. It was make believe and a simple scenario. Double your dosage sweetheart....

The exact same scenario with the inhaler seemed to leave you stumped........

The Shop

Fraser
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6/27/2014 9:06am
I've read your column, I'm just not really buying that part of your theory too much. You find Adrenalin junkies everywhere, there are not 5 times more in the USA than anywhere else. The dietary connection to ADHD in the other thread is the only explanation I've seen so far as to why the diagnosis should be so high compared with anywhere else. Apart from maybe Americans visit psychologists 5 times more than any other country?
Nerd
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6/27/2014 9:14am
Fraser wrote:
I've read your column, I'm just not really buying that part of your theory too much. You find Adrenalin junkies everywhere, there are not 5 times...
I've read your column, I'm just not really buying that part of your theory too much. You find Adrenalin junkies everywhere, there are not 5 times more in the USA than anywhere else. The dietary connection to ADHD in the other thread is the only explanation I've seen so far as to why the diagnosis should be so high compared with anywhere else. Apart from maybe Americans visit psychologists 5 times more than any other country?
You can "not buy it" all you want. That's also on you.

http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/adult-adhd-251516-5_2.html
yosmithy
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6/27/2014 9:20am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The exact same scenario with the inhaler seemed to leave you stumped........
No, it didn't stump me. It didn't have any place with the point of my scenario. You and Nerdy missed my point. Let's play this over again, then:

example 1.
Cox in his natural UN-medicated state has ANY kind of disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state has no disorder
Cox cannot beat me in a race

example 2.
Cox in his unnatural medicated state no longer has disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state has no disorder
Cox can beat me in a race

Is example 2. fair to me?
6/27/2014 9:29am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2014 10:23am
Nerd wrote:
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success. ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most...
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success.

ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most to participate. That has nothing to do with how good you are at it.
I'm starting to think that you didn't read your own column.

"In other words, people with ADD/ADHD operate better in situations of extreme stress or panic, because adrenaline sort of bridges the gaps in their brain and makes their brain actually work better, while people without ADD tend to sort of start shaking and freak out when something causes their adrenaline to start pumping."

If your claim of 80% of the "top guys" in MX having ADHD is accurate I think you may be on to something even though your reasoning is anecdotal.

You're saying that ADD "has nothing to do with how good you are at [motocross]" and at the same time you are saying that ADD makes the brain work better in stressful situations.


So which one is it?
davistld01
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6/27/2014 9:30am
Let me add this scenario...

Stewart in his unnatural medicated state no longer has disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state have no disorder
Stewart can beat me like a dirty rug in a race

Stewart in his natural UN-medicated state has a disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state have no disorder
Stewart can STILL beat me like a dirty rug in a race

My stand is that you can't enhance talent & skill on a motorcycle. If Stewart could still beat 99% of the riders on the gate at any given race WITHOUT being medicated...he can STILL beat 99% of the riders on the gate at any given race WITH the medication needed to make his condition the same "normal" as the rest of the UN-medicated riders.

Fraser
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6/27/2014 9:32am
Nerd wrote:
You can "not buy it" all you want. That's also on you.

http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/adult-adhd-251516-5_2.html
That 'article' has 3 grammar errors in the first 2 sentences-

Children with ADHD can be accident-prone (Dr. Dobson, University of California, Berkeley). But as they can older they may include dangerous activities such as “rock climbing, bungee jumping, car racing, motorcycle riding or white water rafting.” The draw to such activities it the need for high stimulation and the adrenaline rush that is associated with these activities. Adults with ADHD are sometimes considered to be “adrenaline junkies” seeking out activities that will create a rush or a high.

By who and how often? Its hardly science is it?
Crash82
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6/27/2014 9:40am
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is everyone is different, mentally and psychically and the pills aren't going to have the same effect on everyone. Sorry for butting in.
APLMAN99
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6/27/2014 9:55am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The exact same scenario with the inhaler seemed to leave you stumped........
yosmithy wrote:
No, it didn't stump me. It didn't have any place with the point of my scenario. You and Nerdy missed my point. Let's play this over...
No, it didn't stump me. It didn't have any place with the point of my scenario. You and Nerdy missed my point. Let's play this over again, then:

example 1.
Cox in his natural UN-medicated state has ANY kind of disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state has no disorder
Cox cannot beat me in a race

example 2.
Cox in his unnatural medicated state no longer has disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state has no disorder
Cox can beat me in a race

Is example 2. fair to me?
If it didn't have any place, it's simply because you didn't like the logical answer. Both situations are the same.

That's why you were stumped. You couldn't find a rational, unemotional response for that one that wouldn't show your inconsistency.

Would a competitor have ACL surgery be unfair to you if they came back and beat you?
6/27/2014 10:03am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2014 10:04am
davistld01 wrote:
Let me add this scenario... Stewart in his unnatural medicated state no longer has disorder (symptoms) Me in my natural UN-medicated state have no disorder Stewart...
Let me add this scenario...

Stewart in his unnatural medicated state no longer has disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state have no disorder
Stewart can beat me like a dirty rug in a race

Stewart in his natural UN-medicated state has a disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state have no disorder
Stewart can STILL beat me like a dirty rug in a race

My stand is that you can't enhance talent & skill on a motorcycle. If Stewart could still beat 99% of the riders on the gate at any given race WITHOUT being medicated...he can STILL beat 99% of the riders on the gate at any given race WITH the medication needed to make his condition the same "normal" as the rest of the UN-medicated riders.

It wouldn't make him just "normal" it will provide him with an advantage over someone not taking it. It will make him more like a non ADHD person who takes it. I still think it's not that big of a deal, though.
yosmithy
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6/27/2014 10:04am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The exact same scenario with the inhaler seemed to leave you stumped........
yosmithy wrote:
No, it didn't stump me. It didn't have any place with the point of my scenario. You and Nerdy missed my point. Let's play this over...
No, it didn't stump me. It didn't have any place with the point of my scenario. You and Nerdy missed my point. Let's play this over again, then:

example 1.
Cox in his natural UN-medicated state has ANY kind of disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state has no disorder
Cox cannot beat me in a race

example 2.
Cox in his unnatural medicated state no longer has disorder (symptoms)
Me in my natural UN-medicated state has no disorder
Cox can beat me in a race

Is example 2. fair to me?
APLMAN99 wrote:
If it didn't have any place, it's simply because you didn't like the logical answer. Both situations are the same. That's why you were stumped. You...
If it didn't have any place, it's simply because you didn't like the logical answer. Both situations are the same.

That's why you were stumped. You couldn't find a rational, unemotional response for that one that wouldn't show your inconsistency.

Would a competitor have ACL surgery be unfair to you if they came back and beat you?
True, I curled up in the corner and cried from my emotional out break.

Now I can no longer be in a natural UN-medicated state simply because of the mind bender off topic response of yours.

You win, I just can't compete


Please be gentle on the rest of society, you're dangerous
Nerd
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6/27/2014 11:32am
Yosmithy keeps trying to move the goal posts.

We can explain it to you, but we can't understand it for you.
Nerd
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6/27/2014 11:34am
Nerd wrote:
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success. ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most...
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success.

ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most to participate. That has nothing to do with how good you are at it.
TripleFive wrote:
I'm starting to think that you didn't read your own column. [i]"In other words, people with ADD/ADHD operate better in situations of extreme stress or panic...
I'm starting to think that you didn't read your own column.

"In other words, people with ADD/ADHD operate better in situations of extreme stress or panic, because adrenaline sort of bridges the gaps in their brain and makes their brain actually work better, while people without ADD tend to sort of start shaking and freak out when something causes their adrenaline to start pumping."

If your claim of 80% of the "top guys" in MX having ADHD is accurate I think you may be on to something even though your reasoning is anecdotal.

You're saying that ADD "has nothing to do with how good you are at [motocross]" and at the same time you are saying that ADD makes the brain work better in stressful situations.


So which one is it?
It's both.

You get an adrenaline rush the first time you go off a start gate, the first time you jump a triple, etc.

But do you when it's the 20,000th time you've jumped a triple? Or the 500th time you've left a start gate?

No.
6/27/2014 11:50am
Nerd wrote:
It's both. You get an adrenaline rush the first time you go off a start gate, the first time you jump a triple, etc. But do...
It's both.

You get an adrenaline rush the first time you go off a start gate, the first time you jump a triple, etc.

But do you when it's the 20,000th time you've jumped a triple? Or the 500th time you've left a start gate?

No.
JW381
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Harrisburg, OR US
6/27/2014 12:05pm
Nerd wrote:
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success. ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most...
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success.

ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most to participate. That has nothing to do with how good you are at it.
TripleFive wrote:
I'm starting to think that you didn't read your own column. [i]"In other words, people with ADD/ADHD operate better in situations of extreme stress or panic...
I'm starting to think that you didn't read your own column.

"In other words, people with ADD/ADHD operate better in situations of extreme stress or panic, because adrenaline sort of bridges the gaps in their brain and makes their brain actually work better, while people without ADD tend to sort of start shaking and freak out when something causes their adrenaline to start pumping."

If your claim of 80% of the "top guys" in MX having ADHD is accurate I think you may be on to something even though your reasoning is anecdotal.

You're saying that ADD "has nothing to do with how good you are at [motocross]" and at the same time you are saying that ADD makes the brain work better in stressful situations.


So which one is it?
Nerd wrote:
It's both. You get an adrenaline rush the first time you go off a start gate, the first time you jump a triple, etc. But do...
It's both.

You get an adrenaline rush the first time you go off a start gate, the first time you jump a triple, etc.

But do you when it's the 20,000th time you've jumped a triple? Or the 500th time you've left a start gate?

No.
I keep trying to catch that damn dragon, but it's never quite like the first time..
yosmithy
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6/27/2014 12:37pm
Nerd wrote:
Yosmithy keeps trying to move the goal posts.

We can explain it to you, but we can't understand it for you.
You're right, I did move the goal posts. I moved them further apart so you could actually get it. My bad.

Oh well, I guess increased comprehension isn't and effect of whatever PED it is that you're taking. Smile


peelout
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6/27/2014 12:44pm
Nerd wrote:
Yosmithy keeps trying to move the goal posts.

We can explain it to you, but we can't understand it for you.
yosmithy wrote:
You're right, I did move the goal posts. I moved them further apart so you could actually get it. My bad. Oh well, I guess increased...
You're right, I did move the goal posts. I moved them further apart so you could actually get it. My bad.

Oh well, I guess increased comprehension isn't and effect of whatever PED it is that you're taking. Smile


only a professional at his craft of arguing could rope Yosmithy into a never-ending debate.

shame on you Cox and bravo all at the same time.

still haven't read the article and not going to. TLDNR.
yosmithy
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6/27/2014 12:57pm
peelout wrote:
only a professional at his craft of arguing could rope Yosmithy into a never-ending debate. shame on you Cox and bravo all at the same time...
only a professional at his craft of arguing could rope Yosmithy into a never-ending debate.

shame on you Cox and bravo all at the same time.

still haven't read the article and not going to. TLDNR.
Don't you have and eye patch that needs breaking?
peelout
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6/27/2014 1:03pm
peelout wrote:
only a professional at his craft of arguing could rope Yosmithy into a never-ending debate. shame on you Cox and bravo all at the same time...
only a professional at his craft of arguing could rope Yosmithy into a never-ending debate.

shame on you Cox and bravo all at the same time.

still haven't read the article and not going to. TLDNR.
yosmithy wrote:
Don't you have and eye patch that needs breaking?
the eye patch got hit by a truck, it's dead
JW381
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6/27/2014 1:06pm
peelout wrote:
only a professional at his craft of arguing could rope Yosmithy into a never-ending debate. shame on you Cox and bravo all at the same time...
only a professional at his craft of arguing could rope Yosmithy into a never-ending debate.

shame on you Cox and bravo all at the same time.

still haven't read the article and not going to. TLDNR.
yosmithy wrote:
Don't you have and eye patch that needs breaking?
peelout wrote:
the eye patch got hit by a truck, it's dead
Nerd
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6/27/2014 1:15pm
Nerd wrote:
It's both. You get an adrenaline rush the first time you go off a start gate, the first time you jump a triple, etc. But do...
It's both.

You get an adrenaline rush the first time you go off a start gate, the first time you jump a triple, etc.

But do you when it's the 20,000th time you've jumped a triple? Or the 500th time you've left a start gate?

No.
TripleFive wrote:
[img]https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m09wtjkFJ41rn95k2o1_400.gif[/img]
Once again,your inability to understand it is on you.

Plenty of people understood it all just fine.
6/27/2014 1:24pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2014 1:25pm
Nerd wrote:
Once again,your inability to understand it is on you.

Plenty of people understood it all just fine.
I guess I do have an inability to understand.

If eight out of the top ten best riders in the world have a condition which is said to affect between 3-5% of the global population you're going to have to work a lot harder to convince me that they are the ones who are disadvantaged.
GrapeApe
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6/27/2014 1:39pm
Nerd wrote:
Once again,your inability to understand it is on you.

Plenty of people understood it all just fine.
TripleFive wrote:
I guess I do have an inability to understand. If eight out of the top ten best riders in the world have a condition which is...
I guess I do have an inability to understand.

If eight out of the top ten best riders in the world have a condition which is said to affect between 3-5% of the global population you're going to have to work a lot harder to convince me that they are the ones who are disadvantaged.
Inability to understand? There's a drug for that . . .
FreshTopEnd
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6/27/2014 1:40pm
You guys are arguing with Nerd ...
Cygnus
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6/27/2014 1:42pm
Racing motorcycles seems to go hand in hand with this whole add/ ADHD deal. What's so hard to understand?
smeg
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6/27/2014 1:43pm
I have a simple question.

Hypothetically speaking, NASCAR has a role that all cars have to be exactly 100 inches from the front of the front bumper to the back of the back bumper.

At the conclusion of a race they measure the top three cars one car measures and 99 inches, one car measures 100 inches and one car measures 101 inches.

Who cheated?
mrquick
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6/27/2014 1:47pm
Well, Finally its all out in the open. I now see how you guys get your post count up. Carry on.

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