Purse money = Laughable

lostboy819
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4/28/2014 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 4/28/2014 6:02pm
yak651 wrote:
So "regular" vital member says riders aren't making enough and the regular insiders like Engine Ice say none of our business, what is fair, etc. An...
So "regular" vital member says riders aren't making enough and the regular insiders like Engine Ice say none of our business, what is fair, etc. An "insider" vital member says the same thing and now it is ok to discuss? Good thing I guess is people higher up see it as a problem.
We don'tWink know that, its just an assumption as its a secret. I bet its a Jerry MaGuire subject, no one wants to bring it up because it will cost the industry more money.But I think its up to the riders not the fans to worry about rider pay.
TanHner36
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4/28/2014 6:01pm
$12,000 on top of all of the other sponsors/endorsements. If you're riding consistently in the top 10 I highly doubt you're hurting on money.
4/28/2014 6:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/28/2014 6:04pm
Not the same thing. Not the same thing. These guys are at the top of their sport and they're getting paid as if they're entry level...
Not the same thing. Not the same thing. These guys are at the top of their sport and they're getting paid as if they're entry level McDonald's employees.

I do feel I should make more in my job. However my job pays for health insurance (way less risk for me to break my neck taking care of oatients. ) and my job allows me to maintain a home and pay my bills. I would not do my job for what 20th place in 450 class gets after a season is all said and done.
lostboy819 wrote:
If your job drops your health care how may riders do you think will step up to help you out or even care ? none...
If your job drops your health care how may riders do you think will step up to help you out or even care ? none , so why do you give a shit what any rider makes ? are they going to share their good fortune with you................hell no.
I can't argue with you there. I'd have to say you're right. I'm done telling these dumbasses they need to form a union and get paid more. Because I don't want to pay more for a sx ticket anyway. Keep racing for nothing idiots, i'll see you all at redbud this year killing yourselves in the heat while I stand next to the leap 8 beers deep waiting for a crash. And when you crash and break a bone I wont feel bad knowing you didn't get paid with a health insurance policy from the mx industry to entertain me. Thank you all! RRREEEEEEDDDDBBUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDDD



Now that I read through that again, when I said "killing yourselves in the heat" this was not a reference to things that actually happened. And I was not making fun of that incident.
GuyB
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4/28/2014 6:07pm
yak651 wrote:
So "regular" vital member says riders aren't making enough and the regular insiders like Engine Ice say none of our business, what is fair, etc. An...
So "regular" vital member says riders aren't making enough and the regular insiders like Engine Ice say none of our business, what is fair, etc. An "insider" vital member says the same thing and now it is ok to discuss? Good thing I guess is people higher up see it as a problem.
I'd call Dave an irregular. He doesn't show up that often these days.

I think how it's been done in the past may have been what Dave objected to. An angry mob with pitchforks and torches chanting, "The riders need more money," but without any constructive ideas.

It's sort of a no-win thing. No one is going to suggest that what they make given the risk factor is stellar. They're also not going to say they hate puppies or picture of cute babies. But bring some ideas that are better than, "Feld sucks. Pay the riders more."

The Shop

4/28/2014 6:13pm
Pretty sure lostboy819 put a nail in this thread. Why should we bring ideas to these riders to get paid more. If they want paid more, they need to go for it themselves. I think i'm finally really done bitching about how much they don't make. I always rant about it and get upset when I read Forbes magazine and see Ken Forbes name as a billionaire and the riders aren't getting paid spit. Not anymore, who am I to stop someone from becoming a billionaire off of people who are willing to work for pennies on the thousands of dollars? Props to him.
GuyB
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4/28/2014 9:04pm
Pretty sure lostboy819 put a nail in this thread. Why should we bring ideas to these riders to get paid more. If they want paid more...
Pretty sure lostboy819 put a nail in this thread. Why should we bring ideas to these riders to get paid more. If they want paid more, they need to go for it themselves. I think i'm finally really done bitching about how much they don't make. I always rant about it and get upset when I read Forbes magazine and see Ken Forbes name as a billionaire and the riders aren't getting paid spit. Not anymore, who am I to stop someone from becoming a billionaire off of people who are willing to work for pennies on the thousands of dollars? Props to him.
Ken Forbes. Got it.
burn1986
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4/28/2014 9:33pm
Some things you just have to ignore - like rider prize money. Just enjoy it for what it is.
lostboy819
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4/28/2014 9:34pm
Like Bill Gates told Homer Simpson " I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks "

marx41
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4/28/2014 9:57pm
There's a lot to it I'm sure, but even if they were to double the 250 payouts it would only cost them $324,156 per year. Seeing as how just making the night show guarantees you $965 for the 450 (12-22 in the LCQ) nets you more than what you would make for getting 4th in the main on a 250 ($800), the 250 class is getting absolutely shafted here. It makes no sense to ride a 250 if you're not a top guy. Surely that 325k wouldn't hurt if you are making 50-60 million in profit annually?.
4/29/2014 3:51am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 3:54am
@guyb: I get it. Man did I screw that one up. I meant Ken Feld.

At least sx doesn't force guys to race the 250s. . .
MR. X
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4/29/2014 5:30am
Feld provides a platform for these guys to represent their sponsors and make money ,should the riders pay advertising space to Feld?
I really don't have an opinion either way but i don't ever hear a back and forth discussion when this topic comes up.
KTMShane699
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4/29/2014 6:25am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 6:26am
marx41 wrote:
There's a lot to it I'm sure, but even if they were to double the 250 payouts it would only cost them $324,156 per year. Seeing...
There's a lot to it I'm sure, but even if they were to double the 250 payouts it would only cost them $324,156 per year. Seeing as how just making the night show guarantees you $965 for the 450 (12-22 in the LCQ) nets you more than what you would make for getting 4th in the main on a 250 ($800), the 250 class is getting absolutely shafted here. It makes no sense to ride a 250 if you're not a top guy. Surely that 325k wouldn't hurt if you are making 50-60 million in profit annually?.
Just because Feld could give it up...doesn't mean they should have to. I could surely be paid more than I do for working. But it doesn't mean they're going to give it to me. The point of a business is to make money. Racing IS business. The stadiums have good turn outs. There are not shortage of riders coming to fill the gates. As a business owner (like Feld), why should they increase their operating costs? There's absolutely zero incentive for them to do so.

And can we all drop the "risk their lives" argument that always pops up? There are plenty of careers far more dangerous than putting on a show riding a motorcycle that get paid far less. If we're comparing danger to pay to make sure it's worth it...let's start with where it matters. Places like our military would be a great start. I'm pretty confident that soldiers get hurt or killed far more frequently than someone riding a motorcycle in a race but there's not outcry to make sure that they and their families are taken care of.

Nobody makes these guys pursue this as a career choice. If they did, and if they thought of their futures I'm guessing most of them wouldn't do it. They're chasing a dream which is great and it comes with a price. It's a price they've chosen to pay. If they want better pay/benefits/etc...it's up to them to make it happen. The fans can't demand it for them.

Shane
Tarz483
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4/29/2014 8:14am
Its a business for some . And a dream / passion for
others ..
but on the business side the rich get richer just like
any business
.
take walmart for example. Could they afford to pay
more than minimum wage . Or more than they do
for the ones that make more than minimum wage ?
Of course.
Call it greed I guess . But its not just mx/sx
the line between rich and poor or even rich and middle class is getting bigger and bigger .
I see guys all the time buying million doller cars and
$50k watches etc... I even saw a guy with a $30k
presidential ink pen not to long ago . Its crazy .
then there are others .m
any others struggling to pay the Rent and feed there families.
I am on the struggling side personally and I have
2 jobs . Unfortunately they dont pay enough.
so could they pay more sure but in my opinion than
they may have to get a $1 million doller house . Instead of a $5 million doller house and ugh who wants that lol..
so imo its totally greed and the rich dont want to share!
Not for pushing carts in the rain.
and unfortunately not for taking chances while putting on a kick ass show for fans .
That's the way things are these days.
viking24
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4/29/2014 8:30am
Another head scratcher is that the purse hasn't changed in 20 years if not longer.
steveada
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4/29/2014 9:04am
The riders don't work for Feld. They work for their teams and sponsors. If you are a privateer, you are basically doing an internship, trying to get noticed enough to get a real job. I think that if there is any hope for increasing payouts, pressure on Feld would have to come from the big teams pushing for it, not a riders union.
CR250Rider
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4/29/2014 10:14am
The Holeshot check is so small I wish it was kept quiet
KTMShane699
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4/29/2014 10:15am
CR250Rider wrote:
The Holeshot check is so small I wish it was kept quiet
How much should the drag race through one corner be worth?

Shane
Matthes
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4/29/2014 10:55am
viking24 wrote:
Another head scratcher is that the purse hasn't changed in 20 years if not longer.
That's not true. It has changed quite a bit, especially the 450 LCQ. I'm not defending it, it needs to be more (especially in the 250SX class) but let's deal in facts here.
lostboy819
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4/29/2014 11:19am
Tarz483 wrote:
Its a business for some . And a dream / passion for others .. but on the business side the rich get richer just like any...
Its a business for some . And a dream / passion for
others ..
but on the business side the rich get richer just like
any business
.
take walmart for example. Could they afford to pay
more than minimum wage . Or more than they do
for the ones that make more than minimum wage ?
Of course.
Call it greed I guess . But its not just mx/sx
the line between rich and poor or even rich and middle class is getting bigger and bigger .
I see guys all the time buying million doller cars and
$50k watches etc... I even saw a guy with a $30k
presidential ink pen not to long ago . Its crazy .
then there are others .m
any others struggling to pay the Rent and feed there families.
I am on the struggling side personally and I have
2 jobs . Unfortunately they dont pay enough.
so could they pay more sure but in my opinion than
they may have to get a $1 million doller house . Instead of a $5 million doller house and ugh who wants that lol..
so imo its totally greed and the rich dont want to share!
Not for pushing carts in the rain.
and unfortunately not for taking chances while putting on a kick ass show for fans .
That's the way things are these days.
I get a kick out of your line " its totally greed and the rich dont want to share! " Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
What is considered rich and why should they share ? Whistling
Darryl916
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4/29/2014 11:27am
1. Riders band together (union or whatever)
2. Ask the organizers to open the books to see how much money they are walking away with.
3. Propose a reasonable deal based on the information learned in #2


"Kenneth Feld and his family own and run Feld Entertainment, one of the world's largest live entertainment companies. As the parent company of brands like Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey circus, Disney On Ice and Monster Jam truck shows, Feld Entertainment recorded $1 billion in revenue in 2012."

http://www.forbes.com/profile/kenneth-feld/
Grizz
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4/29/2014 11:37am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 11:41am
Yea its a dream for everyone to be a pro mxer. Until you realize that a guy from 10 to 20th makes peanuts and your better...
Yea its a dream for everyone to be a pro mxer. Until you realize that a guy from 10 to 20th makes peanuts and your better off with your home depot job
Not everything in life is about money. It's still my dream to go off the gate with 39 of my heroes.
Grizz
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4/29/2014 11:45am
marx41 wrote:
There's a lot to it I'm sure, but even if they were to double the 250 payouts it would only cost them $324,156 per year. Seeing...
There's a lot to it I'm sure, but even if they were to double the 250 payouts it would only cost them $324,156 per year. Seeing as how just making the night show guarantees you $965 for the 450 (12-22 in the LCQ) nets you more than what you would make for getting 4th in the main on a 250 ($800), the 250 class is getting absolutely shafted here. It makes no sense to ride a 250 if you're not a top guy. Surely that 325k wouldn't hurt if you are making 50-60 million in profit annually?.
Just because Feld could give it up...doesn't mean they should have to. I could surely be paid more than I do for working. But it doesn't...
Just because Feld could give it up...doesn't mean they should have to. I could surely be paid more than I do for working. But it doesn't mean they're going to give it to me. The point of a business is to make money. Racing IS business. The stadiums have good turn outs. There are not shortage of riders coming to fill the gates. As a business owner (like Feld), why should they increase their operating costs? There's absolutely zero incentive for them to do so.

And can we all drop the "risk their lives" argument that always pops up? There are plenty of careers far more dangerous than putting on a show riding a motorcycle that get paid far less. If we're comparing danger to pay to make sure it's worth it...let's start with where it matters. Places like our military would be a great start. I'm pretty confident that soldiers get hurt or killed far more frequently than someone riding a motorcycle in a race but there's not outcry to make sure that they and their families are taken care of.

Nobody makes these guys pursue this as a career choice. If they did, and if they thought of their futures I'm guessing most of them wouldn't do it. They're chasing a dream which is great and it comes with a price. It's a price they've chosen to pay. If they want better pay/benefits/etc...it's up to them to make it happen. The fans can't demand it for them.

Shane
Good post.
resetjet
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4/29/2014 11:53am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 11:53am
Nascar a bit more

"For instance, at the Subway Fresh Fit 500 in April of 2008, driver Jimmie Johnson won the race and took home $262,111 -- the winner's share of the purse as well as a bonus for the best strategic call and some contingency money. The last place finisher, Ryan Newman, took home $110,718 thanks to bonuses and the different team payout systems. Dale Earnhardt Jr., on the other hand, came in 7th place, but only took home $99,125 [source: Sports Club Stats]. At the 2008 Ford 400, no driver took home less than $60,000, while Carl Edwards drove away with the race victory and $365,225 "

total purse is 4 to 6 million a race based on this old article.
burn1986
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4/29/2014 11:54am
marx41 wrote:
There's a lot to it I'm sure, but even if they were to double the 250 payouts it would only cost them $324,156 per year. Seeing...
There's a lot to it I'm sure, but even if they were to double the 250 payouts it would only cost them $324,156 per year. Seeing as how just making the night show guarantees you $965 for the 450 (12-22 in the LCQ) nets you more than what you would make for getting 4th in the main on a 250 ($800), the 250 class is getting absolutely shafted here. It makes no sense to ride a 250 if you're not a top guy. Surely that 325k wouldn't hurt if you are making 50-60 million in profit annually?.
Just because Feld could give it up...doesn't mean they should have to. I could surely be paid more than I do for working. But it doesn't...
Just because Feld could give it up...doesn't mean they should have to. I could surely be paid more than I do for working. But it doesn't mean they're going to give it to me. The point of a business is to make money. Racing IS business. The stadiums have good turn outs. There are not shortage of riders coming to fill the gates. As a business owner (like Feld), why should they increase their operating costs? There's absolutely zero incentive for them to do so.

And can we all drop the "risk their lives" argument that always pops up? There are plenty of careers far more dangerous than putting on a show riding a motorcycle that get paid far less. If we're comparing danger to pay to make sure it's worth it...let's start with where it matters. Places like our military would be a great start. I'm pretty confident that soldiers get hurt or killed far more frequently than someone riding a motorcycle in a race but there's not outcry to make sure that they and their families are taken care of.

Nobody makes these guys pursue this as a career choice. If they did, and if they thought of their futures I'm guessing most of them wouldn't do it. They're chasing a dream which is great and it comes with a price. It's a price they've chosen to pay. If they want better pay/benefits/etc...it's up to them to make it happen. The fans can't demand it for them.

Shane
Grizz wrote:
Good post.
Eeeehh. Some truth, but a little harsh.
daveoevo
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4/29/2014 12:25pm
Upping the prize money will only help the last place guy a little bit more. But upping the prize money will also lead to supercross only contracts again. And they suck.
viking24
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4/29/2014 1:23pm
viking24 wrote:
Another head scratcher is that the purse hasn't changed in 20 years if not longer.
Matthes wrote:
That's not true. It has changed quite a bit, especially the 450 LCQ. I'm not defending it, it needs to be more (especially in the 250SX...
That's not true. It has changed quite a bit, especially the 450 LCQ. I'm not defending it, it needs to be more (especially in the 250SX class) but let's deal in facts here.
So this was the prompt to starting this. My wife and I invite friends of ours to the NJ/NYC Supercross. The couple are educated professionals that both enjoy sport more so than the average. After the 250 main was over, they asked how much Bogle won in prize money. I said I am not sure, so I google it. $2500 to the 250 class winner. They were utterly shocked...
TanHner36
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4/29/2014 2:16pm
One of my favorite sayings is "If you enjoy what you do, you will never work a day in your life."

If you can show me a single rider out there who would rather be working in an office or factory or wherever. Or one who complains about traveling the country and world for riding a dirt bike. I will give you every cent in my bank account.

The guys who are the best riders in the world are paid respectively. The guys working towards that are paid what they should be getting. You might be forgetting what I gigantic hit the motorcycle/ATV industry took in 2008/2009.
Awhit167
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4/29/2014 2:27pm
For a few it's worth that slight chance to become big and get all the fame, for others like me after racing all of your life and having serious injuries it just isn't worth it anymore and also not to mention the lack of purse money.. It cost more to show up and try to qualify for the 250 class then you probably make finishing decent in the main.. Atleast that's how it was back in 2010 and 2011 when I did it
lostboy819
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4/29/2014 2:35pm
viking24 wrote:
So this was the prompt to starting this. My wife and I invite friends of ours to the NJ/NYC Supercross. The couple are educated professionals that...
So this was the prompt to starting this. My wife and I invite friends of ours to the NJ/NYC Supercross. The couple are educated professionals that both enjoy sport more so than the average. After the 250 main was over, they asked how much Bogle won in prize money. I said I am not sure, so I google it. $2500 to the 250 class winner. They were utterly shocked...
But if you knew Bogles total income for the year I bet they would see things differently.

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