Time to change SX points structure?

socal50+
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socal50+ 4/3/2014 7:08am
4/3/2014 7:08am
I never said RV doesn't deserve to be the champ again. It just seems like the series loses some intensity as it goes on. I know this will piss off a few of you off but what about resetting the top ten after race 12. I will bet Supercross would get more viewers and spectators if the points were close until the end.
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Outsider 4/3/2014 7:11am
4/3/2014 7:11am
socal50+ wrote:
I never said RV doesn't deserve to be the champ again. It just seems like the series loses some intensity as it goes on. I know...
I never said RV doesn't deserve to be the champ again. It just seems like the series loses some intensity as it goes on. I know this will piss off a few of you off but what about resetting the top ten after race 12. I will bet Supercross would get more viewers and spectators if the points were close until the end.
Then what's the incentive the first 12 rounds?
socal50+
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socal50+ 4/3/2014 7:22am
4/3/2014 7:22am
Nascar gives bonus points for wins before the reset. I just think racing would be better if the best guys would race for wins all the way to vegas.
rompin87
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rompin87 4/3/2014 11:06am
4/3/2014 11:06am
socal50+ wrote:
Nascar gives bonus points for wins before the reset. I just think racing would be better if the best guys would race for wins all the...
Nascar gives bonus points for wins before the reset. I just think racing would be better if the best guys would race for wins all the way to vegas.
First up I dont follow NASCAR so forgive my ignorance here.
How do you 'reset the top 10' points wise? And does this benefit 10th downwards or do only the top 10 qualify?
When they do reset the top 10 what's the point of bonus points for wins they got the previous rounds if they just lose them later on?
Maybe I'm confused but I'll follow what outsider said, what's the incentive the first 12 rounds?

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socal50+
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socal50+ 4/3/2014 12:22pm
4/3/2014 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2014 8:19pm
After 26 0f 36 races in Nascar the top ten guys are reset and given something like 2000 points. For the sake of conversation lets say in Supercross the ten guys are reset and given 100 points each which separates then from the rest for the playoffs. All wins up to this point are worth 3 points so if Rv has 3 wins he starts with 109 and stewart has 2 wins he starts wins 106 etc. Its a little like throwing a race out because if Rv had 3 wins and a dnf in the first 12 rounds but was still in the top ten he would still start the chase with 109 points. A guy like Reed could miss a few rounds and still be part of the championship if he could stay in the top ten and get healthy in time for the chase. I know it sounds confusing but it would make all wins important and last five rounds awesome. On the downside for the riders a guy could get hot for last 5 rounds and take the championship, but for Supercross to grow the show has to be the best it can. Rv cruising around point racing is not good for the sport I asked an industry buddy for some free tickets for vegas and he said no problem unless the points get tight
Uncleof2
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Uncleof2 4/3/2014 12:41pm
4/3/2014 12:41pm
Seamorbutts wrote:
Just curious, does Ryan ever read the shit posted about him ever? Also, his Grandpa seems a little, how do i say, crazy? Lol
I'm sure he sees and know he hears about some of the stuff, but I don't think he takes in to personally. As for Grandpa V.
he is one of most passionate, family first, old school, motorcycle enthusiast men I know and if that is crazy then I want to be
crazy like him. This weekend in Boise, ID. he's riding a 1974 YZ250 in a vintage mx race at the tender age of 76, ya he's
crazy.
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kongols 4/3/2014 12:43pm
4/3/2014 12:43pm
Uncleof2 wrote:
I'm sure he sees and know he hears about some of the stuff, but I don't think he takes in to personally. As for Grandpa V...
I'm sure he sees and know he hears about some of the stuff, but I don't think he takes in to personally. As for Grandpa V.
he is one of most passionate, family first, old school, motorcycle enthusiast men I know and if that is crazy then I want to be
crazy like him. This weekend in Boise, ID. he's riding a 1974 YZ250 in a vintage mx race at the tender age of 76, ya he's
crazy.
Nice.
Whoops_Blitzer 4/3/2014 12:53pm
4/3/2014 12:53pm
On the downside for the riders a guy could get hot for last 5 rounds and take the championship

Sounds fair to me. Nothing wrong with rewarding those who finish strong. (not a shot at RV)
We shouldn't be so pretentious that we can't learn a thing from nascar, especially in SX.
Whoops_Blitzer 4/3/2014 1:02pm
4/3/2014 1:02pm
Beast666 wrote:
+ 1,000,000 There is nothing wrong with the points system. If JS7 had more consistent finishes he would be in the points lead right now. The...
+ 1,000,000

There is nothing wrong with the points system. If JS7 had more consistent finishes he would be in the points lead right now. The reason RV2 is in this position season after season is the fact that he rides smart and does not do any thing that might cause a crash or a DNF just to get to the top step of the podium.

Just look at A1 if JS7 would have settled in for 2nd place and finished the same as in all the other races there would only be around a 10 point difference between RV2 and JS7 going into the race this weekend. When people bitch that RV2 is collecting points is forgetting the big picture of winning the championship for 4 straight years and the big bonus check that goes along with it. If I was in the same position I would be boing the same collecting as many points as possible without throwing it away by disconnecting my brain.
James heard people saying he should've settled for 2nd at A1, and said it's a shame people think that way.

I can respect a champion, and I can definitely respect the way James does things. I was sort of with the "settlers" after it happened, but his comment snapped things into focus for me.
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BigDaddyG 4/3/2014 1:20pm
4/3/2014 1:20pm
mx 219 wrote:
how about we dont change anything..when did the points system break? Its fine as it is. If you want to win the title or be closer...
how about we dont change anything..when did the points system break?

Its fine as it is. If you want to win the title or be closer in points ride smart.
Exactly.
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huck 4/3/2014 1:28pm
4/3/2014 1:28pm
socal50+ wrote:
After 26 0f 36 races in Nascar the top ten guys are reset and given something like 2000 points. For the sake of conversation lets say...
After 26 0f 36 races in Nascar the top ten guys are reset and given something like 2000 points. For the sake of conversation lets say in Supercross the ten guys are reset and given 100 points each which separates then from the rest for the playoffs. All wins up to this point are worth 3 points so if Rv has 3 wins he starts with 109 and stewart has 2 wins he starts wins 106 etc. Its a little like throwing a race out because if Rv had 3 wins and a dnf in the first 12 rounds but was still in the top ten he would still start the chase with 109 points. A guy like Reed could miss a few rounds and still be part of the championship if he could stay in the top ten and get healthy in time for the chase. I know it sounds confusing but it would make all wins important and last five rounds awesome. On the downside for the riders a guy could get hot for last 5 rounds and take the championship, but for Supercross to grow the show has to be the best it can. Rv cruising around point racing is not good for the sport I asked an industry buddy for some free tickets for vegas and he said no problem unless the points get tight
Neither is trying to change the rules to match NASCAR.
rollingtach
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rollingtach 4/3/2014 1:54pm
4/3/2014 1:54pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2014 1:58pm
socal50+ wrote:
After 26 0f 36 races in Nascar the top ten guys are reset and given something like 2000 points. For the sake of conversation lets say...
After 26 0f 36 races in Nascar the top ten guys are reset and given something like 2000 points. For the sake of conversation lets say in Supercross the ten guys are reset and given 100 points each which separates then from the rest for the playoffs. All wins up to this point are worth 3 points so if Rv has 3 wins he starts with 109 and stewart has 2 wins he starts wins 106 etc. Its a little like throwing a race out because if Rv had 3 wins and a dnf in the first 12 rounds but was still in the top ten he would still start the chase with 109 points. A guy like Reed could miss a few rounds and still be part of the championship if he could stay in the top ten and get healthy in time for the chase. I know it sounds confusing but it would make all wins important and last five rounds awesome. On the downside for the riders a guy could get hot for last 5 rounds and take the championship, but for Supercross to grow the show has to be the best it can. Rv cruising around point racing is not good for the sport I asked an industry buddy for some free tickets for vegas and he said no problem unless the points get tight
I agree with your comment about cruising around point racing. It's not much fun to watch and I really don't think it does anything to grow the fan base but the structure you point out seems to put it all on wins. The consistency part kind of looses all value in the structure you describe and I think it should be part of what a champion is. Even if you picked the top 3 instead of 10 and the 2nd place rider was like 40 pts back at the point where they switch, the leader who's been riding fast and steady gets screwed.
What if they were to make every other race, a points race towards the championship? I think during the non point races, it would be more like the MEC without the joker lane and you would have more riders opening up for those nights. Even Dungey. It would all be about prize money and winning.
Whoops_Blitzer 4/3/2014 1:58pm
4/3/2014 1:58pm
huck wrote:
Neither is trying to change the rules to match NASCAR.
Thanks for the update, monkey who's back from the future. I wouldn't have guessed that thing could get up to 88.
racerx217
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racerx217 4/3/2014 2:14pm
4/3/2014 2:14pm
Top qualifier last gate pick, last person to get in from the LCQ first gate pick. That would make things more interesting.
Whoops_Blitzer 4/3/2014 2:20pm
4/3/2014 2:20pm
rollingtach wrote:
I agree with your comment about cruising around point racing. It's not much fun to watch and I really don't think it does anything to grow...
I agree with your comment about cruising around point racing. It's not much fun to watch and I really don't think it does anything to grow the fan base but the structure you point out seems to put it all on wins. The consistency part kind of looses all value in the structure you describe and I think it should be part of what a champion is. Even if you picked the top 3 instead of 10 and the 2nd place rider was like 40 pts back at the point where they switch, the leader who's been riding fast and steady gets screwed.
What if they were to make every other race, a points race towards the championship? I think during the non point races, it would be more like the MEC without the joker lane and you would have more riders opening up for those nights. Even Dungey. It would all be about prize money and winning.
Your last paragraph isn't too far from what I said earlier -- every 3rd race the win is worth more -- which I'm revising now to look something like this:

Round 1: 22, 20, 18, 16, 15, 14, etc.
..........R2: 23, 20, 18, etc.
..........R3: 24, 20, 18, etc.
..........R4: 25, 20, 18, etc.

R5: start over at 22, 20, 18, 16, 15, 14, etc.
R6:
R7:
rollingtach
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rollingtach 4/3/2014 2:35pm
4/3/2014 2:35pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2014 2:35pm
I think if any change is made it has to be fairly simple and changing the points structure can make it too complex for the casual fan to understand. Running half the races with no concern about points, will increase your chances to see more exciting racing over the course of the year.
socal50+
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socal50+ 4/3/2014 2:36pm
4/3/2014 2:36pm
Think how big Vegas would be if there were still 4 or 5 guys with a chance at the title. I'm talking only from the fan perspective. I bet at least 20 to 30 percent more viewers
huck
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huck 4/3/2014 2:39pm
4/3/2014 2:39pm
socal50+ wrote:
Think how big Vegas would be if there were still 4 or 5 guys with a chance at the title. I'm talking only from the fan...
Think how big Vegas would be if there were still 4 or 5 guys with a chance at the title. I'm talking only from the fan perspective. I bet at least 20 to 30 percent more viewers
Why not have 16 race series that consist of 1 race each? That way, each town can see a "champion" get crowned.


Some of you guys are just plain 'genious'.

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Whoops_Blitzer 4/3/2014 2:55pm
4/3/2014 2:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2014 4:17pm
And this

the structure you point out seems to put it all on wins. The consistency part kind of looses all value in the structure you describe and I think it should be part of what a champion is.

about NASCAR's system: the easy fix seems to be, when the points are reset to 100, to award
+1 point for every 5th place the rider has earned before the reset
+2 for every 4th
3 for 3rds
4 for 2nds
and 5 for 1sts.

So, if the current top 3 riders in the SX championship were reset to 100 right now the points would look like this:

RV 100 + [3 wins + (4 2nds) + (1 3rd) + (3 4ths) + (1 5th) = 41]>141
RD 100 + [1 + 2 + 5 + 2 + 0......................................................= 32]>132
JS 100 + [5 + 2 + 0 + 1 + 0.......................................................= 35]>135

There. I just fixed Supercross. We can all go home.
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level 4/3/2014 3:00pm
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I honestly think they just need to drop the worst finish of the year. That would be fine with me. That being said I need to take some time and take this years points to see how it works out but I think that would even the field. One bad race and the championship is over and somebody else runs away with it. That needs to be the main thing to be done.
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Radical 4/3/2014 3:00pm
4/3/2014 3:00pm
Mtek wrote:
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as...
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as costly.
GuyB wrote:
I'm not a fan of the idea. Being smart and consistent is part of the deal.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Get's boring for the fans though, because you never know [b]for sure[/b] if a championship leader is trying to win or not. For example could RC...
Get's boring for the fans though, because you never know for sure if a championship leader is trying to win or not.
For example could RC have beaten Reed when he lost 5 in a row? We will never know.
A rider can always use that as an excuse. (not saying RV or RC did)

Something more similar to MotoGP's scoring would be better. IMO

Even though this may not make much of a difference this season, I think something like this would be better.

1. 25
2. 20
3. 18
4. 16
5. 14
6. 12
7. 10
8. 9
9. 8
10. 7
11. 6
12. 5
13. 4
14. 3
15. 2
16. 1
I like this, because there's more incentive to fight for position all the way down to 6th place. The 5 point gap between 1st and 2nd is an even bigger incentive to fight for wins. This is a big enough incentive to go for wins, and essentially, it is an extra 2 points paid out per win.
I would change this to include 1 point down to 20th place. If you make the top 20, you earn points.

I'm not a fan of points for heat races, etc... The main is the real deal, the only thing that matters. There are already incentives for racing fast in the qualifiers.
Heat races: Best gate pick, rest up and be fresh for the main.
Semi, 2nd best. No stress of going to the LCQ and possibly not making the main.
LCQ: Racing for your life (well for the night).

With a 5 point spread, the top riders are not going to give up the win easily and settle for being safe. 5 points is a lot to give up or make up.

Having a 2 point diff all the way down to 7th gives more incentive to not settle. Giving up a point is one thing. 2 is another if you're in a close point chase.

I like it! Stamp it and make it so!
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level 4/3/2014 3:01pm
4/3/2014 3:01pm
socal50+ wrote:
Think how big Vegas would be if there were still 4 or 5 guys with a chance at the title. I'm talking only from the fan...
Think how big Vegas would be if there were still 4 or 5 guys with a chance at the title. I'm talking only from the fan perspective. I bet at least 20 to 30 percent more viewers
Agree. Big time.

Nascar evolves that is what makes them successful. A point reset is not a bad idea either. Listen, SX is not hard core motocross. It's a fan sport and money making sport. You have to do what you can to keep the points as close as possible or the fans not only give up but so do the riders.
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level 4/3/2014 3:08pm
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Ok. So I figured the points if they got to drop there worst finish and it doesn't appear it would make a damn bit of difference. So a point reset might be the way to go.

2014 Points
RV-268...If dropped worst finish 253
RD-233..If dropped worst finish 232
JS-232...If dropped worst finish 229
KR-215...If dropped worst finish 214

2013 Points
RV--371 366
DM-338 327
RD-337 324
Barc-277 276
Radical
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Radical 4/3/2014 3:11pm
4/3/2014 3:11pm
And I'm not a fan of dropped races in pro or amateur.
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level 4/3/2014 3:14pm
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I was thinking if say 2 riders had 3 races and they were like this 25 22 1 and the other one 25 22 18. Then that would even them out but over the course of the whole series it doesn't look like it really makes a difference with all the races.
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gsxrcr28 4/3/2014 3:17pm
4/3/2014 3:17pm
GuyB wrote:
I'm not a fan of the idea. Being smart and consistent is part of the deal.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Get's boring for the fans though, because you never know [b]for sure[/b] if a championship leader is trying to win or not. For example could RC...
Get's boring for the fans though, because you never know for sure if a championship leader is trying to win or not.
For example could RC have beaten Reed when he lost 5 in a row? We will never know.
A rider can always use that as an excuse. (not saying RV or RC did)

Something more similar to MotoGP's scoring would be better. IMO

Even though this may not make much of a difference this season, I think something like this would be better.

1. 25
2. 20
3. 18
4. 16
5. 14
6. 12
7. 10
8. 9
9. 8
10. 7
11. 6
12. 5
13. 4
14. 3
15. 2
16. 1
Radical wrote:
I like this, because there's more incentive to fight for position all the way down to 6th place. The 5 point gap between 1st and 2nd...
I like this, because there's more incentive to fight for position all the way down to 6th place. The 5 point gap between 1st and 2nd is an even bigger incentive to fight for wins. This is a big enough incentive to go for wins, and essentially, it is an extra 2 points paid out per win.
I would change this to include 1 point down to 20th place. If you make the top 20, you earn points.

I'm not a fan of points for heat races, etc... The main is the real deal, the only thing that matters. There are already incentives for racing fast in the qualifiers.
Heat races: Best gate pick, rest up and be fresh for the main.
Semi, 2nd best. No stress of going to the LCQ and possibly not making the main.
LCQ: Racing for your life (well for the night).

With a 5 point spread, the top riders are not going to give up the win easily and settle for being safe. 5 points is a lot to give up or make up.

Having a 2 point diff all the way down to 7th gives more incentive to not settle. Giving up a point is one thing. 2 is another if you're in a close point chase.

I like it! Stamp it and make it so!
Thanks man. I think that structure would work very good, and it's much closer to MotoGP which seems to work great because there is a huge incentive to fight for wins, which is what the fans want to see. People pay a lot of money to go to Supercross races, and the way the point structure is now it is a bit more about consistency, to where the riders can be more conservative throughout the season. JMO
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mx5471 4/3/2014 3:48pm
4/3/2014 3:48pm
I could be wrong here, but my take on the SX event is that for most people it's a show. Like take the kids to see it for a fun thing to do with the family on a Saturday night, just like going to a monster truck show. Might even get the old lady excited for some fun after the kids are in bed. Sure, a lot of am riders like us may go to see some, but I can't help but think that most that attend do it just for a one off fun event. I do believe that it can turn kids into fans and they will watch it on TV with the parents, and that could turn the parents into fans. A great way to get the kids off the phones and computers, and make some popcorn and the whole family spends a Saturday night together. But I don't think they think about the points so much. I think the points system is fine. I am happy that they brought back the semi's. That was good, but the points system is fine. Everyone knows the deal, and it's the same for everyone. Be consistent, be fast, be crazy fast. Choose your weapon, or in other words, your strategy. But slow bikes and slow riders don't win championships.
Whoops_Blitzer 4/3/2014 4:04pm
4/3/2014 4:04pm
^ I've always said a little monster truck action is the best aphrodisiac.
rollingtach
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rollingtach 4/3/2014 4:48pm
4/3/2014 4:48pm
Every other race for points and make the others strictly for prize money. Then show a little more of Mercedes and you got a winning combo for the season.
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g0rd057 4/4/2014 6:00pm
4/4/2014 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 4/4/2014 6:02pm
socal50+ wrote:
Think how big Vegas would be if there were still 4 or 5 guys with a chance at the title. I'm talking only from the fan...
Think how big Vegas would be if there were still 4 or 5 guys with a chance at the title. I'm talking only from the fan perspective. I bet at least 20 to 30 percent more viewers
level wrote:
Agree. Big time. Nascar evolves that is what makes them successful. A point reset is not a bad idea either. Listen, SX is not hard core...
Agree. Big time.

Nascar evolves that is what makes them successful. A point reset is not a bad idea either. Listen, SX is not hard core motocross. It's a fan sport and money making sport. You have to do what you can to keep the points as close as possible or the fans not only give up but so do the riders.
By fans demand, NASCAR has evolved the system again for 2014.
The fans got tired watching Jimmie Johnson run away with 6 titles in the last 7 years.....
New NASCAR Season; New Chase Format; 2014 Season Preview
Puts more emphasis on winning. Basically, one win or more qualifies you one spot out of 16 for the championship, no matter how many points you earn the first 2/3 of the season. The champion will be decided by an elimination type format in the final 10 races. The final race will be a shootout between two drivers for who gets the title.

Post a reply to: Time to change SX points structure?