lower cost = lower quality? wheels..

mxracer32
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mxracer32
Edited Date/Time 3/24/2014 8:59am
ive been riding over 10 years, run around midpack at the local A class level, nothing to write home about but I do ride harder than the average joe. ive always just done maintainence to my bikes, never bought any performance or eye candy parts but i've had a hard on for some black rims for a long time, im thinking i might try and get a set with my tax return. DNA wheels have a great price and really good looking wheel sets, black rims with the red hubs, i really dig it and think they'll look good on my 09 crf450 but curious to know if there are any quality issues with them? i dont have the coin to drop 900+ on a set of excel or talon wheel sets. i googled dna rims review but everything i found was on thumpertalk, most of those 'reviews' i tend to shy away from because of the age of posters...just sayin. anyone have any insight on them? thanks.
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CamP
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CamP 2/10/2010 11:00am
2/10/2010 11:00am
If you want black rims, you would be better off having your stock rims hard anodized.
MX Dad #27 2/10/2010 3:01pm
2/10/2010 3:01pm
I just bought a set, they look great, have not run them yet, but I would say for "The Average Joe" they are fine. It will cost you just about as much to have your wheels unassembeled, anodized, and reassembeled (and if you did this you would replace the spokes and nipples.).
CamP
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CamP 2/10/2010 4:00pm
2/10/2010 4:00pm Edited Date/Time 2/10/2010 4:15pm
Hard anodizing will run about $100. You can clean and reuse all your spokes/nipples. I use a spoke prep called Nipple Cream that does a great job of keeping the spokes tight. It contains teflon to prevent the nipples from seizing. I also use an inch/pound torque wrench when I do the final tightening. You end up with a better wheel that won't have loose spokes and you'll save hundred of dollars in the process. The DNA wheels may be strong but I've seen too many Chinese wheels break to risk my neck with them.
mxracer32
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mxracer32 2/10/2010 4:37pm
2/10/2010 4:37pm
i emailed my a local shop that does the hard anodizing, going to see what it will cost. i dont feel confident lacing a wheel up so i will have the shop do that, quoted 30 bucks per wheel. im just wondering how many of those spokes are actually going to come out willingly...

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CamP
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CamP 2/10/2010 5:03pm
2/10/2010 5:03pm
mxracer32 wrote:
i emailed my a local shop that does the hard anodizing, going to see what it will cost. i dont feel confident lacing a wheel up...
i emailed my a local shop that does the hard anodizing, going to see what it will cost. i dont feel confident lacing a wheel up so i will have the shop do that, quoted 30 bucks per wheel. im just wondering how many of those spokes are actually going to come out willingly...
With a year old bike, it shouldn't be bad. Just squirt some WD40 in the nipples the day before you take them apart. Clean everything before you give it to the wheel builder/plater and you'll end up with a better job.
R-acer
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R-acer 2/10/2010 6:53pm
2/10/2010 6:53pm
I put a set of DNA's on my 08 YZ450F, and I had a flat tire every ride day.. The spoke nipples that they use were sharp and would cut through the liner, also, the spokes seemed to come loose very often.
I wouldnt buy them again, I ended up just buying a set of Talon hubs/Excel A60 rims, and am very happy now. no problems at all.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 2/11/2010 3:42pm
2/11/2010 3:42pm
Get some A60's and You will have the best of the best.
jtiger12
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jtiger12 2/14/2010 8:55am
2/14/2010 8:55am
Cygnus wrote:
Get some A60's and You will have the best of the best.
second that.. if you are really mid pack A class rider, i'm surprised you havn't made this jump by now.

stock rims are like butter to me. I always go with oversize spokes and excel rims. those dna rims and billet hubs are heavy!
mxracer32
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mxracer32 2/17/2010 8:39am
2/17/2010 8:39am
jtiger12 wrote:
second that.. if you are really mid pack A class rider, i'm surprised you havn't made this jump by now. stock rims are like butter to...
second that.. if you are really mid pack A class rider, i'm surprised you havn't made this jump by now.

stock rims are like butter to me. I always go with oversize spokes and excel rims. those dna rims and billet hubs are heavy!
on my '07 i blew apart the stock hub and rim, replaced with entire wheel assembly from warp9. destroyed that rim in 6 rides. I had a local shop lace it up, so i cant say whether it was the wheel, or the lacer. I went back with a OEM complete wheel from ebay and didnt have any problems, then traded it in. i have 75 hours on my '09 and they are still ok. maybe i ride harder than the average joe, but not as hard as the local 'pro's'. OEM's seem to work fine for me so far. Ive heard DNA's are much heavier...and weaker. wtf, shouldnt heavier be beefier!? anyways...

local shop sent my business to RTR wheel lacing in florida. spoke with bob through email, 250 gets me anodized, laced, trued, and shipped back. 350 gets my stock hubs turned down, polished and epoxy coated for the anodized look (cant anodize hubs or powdercoat because they will turn brittle if cooked at a high temp). a search online proves this guy does great work and a good cost, not one bad review. looks like i'll send my rims to him to get anodized. thanks guys.
Mx4life320
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Mx4life320 2/17/2010 9:28am
2/17/2010 9:28am
CamP wrote:
Hard anodizing will run about $100. You can clean and reuse all your spokes/nipples. I use a spoke prep called Nipple Cream that does a great...
Hard anodizing will run about $100. You can clean and reuse all your spokes/nipples. I use a spoke prep called Nipple Cream that does a great job of keeping the spokes tight. It contains teflon to prevent the nipples from seizing. I also use an inch/pound torque wrench when I do the final tightening. You end up with a better wheel that won't have loose spokes and you'll save hundred of dollars in the process. The DNA wheels may be strong but I've seen too many Chinese wheels break to risk my neck with them.
I never thought about doing it this way, but it sounds like a better way to do it.. Can you get your hub anodized as well?
mxracer32
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mxracer32 2/17/2010 11:30am
2/17/2010 11:30am
CamP wrote:
Hard anodizing will run about $100. You can clean and reuse all your spokes/nipples. I use a spoke prep called Nipple Cream that does a great...
Hard anodizing will run about $100. You can clean and reuse all your spokes/nipples. I use a spoke prep called Nipple Cream that does a great job of keeping the spokes tight. It contains teflon to prevent the nipples from seizing. I also use an inch/pound torque wrench when I do the final tightening. You end up with a better wheel that won't have loose spokes and you'll save hundred of dollars in the process. The DNA wheels may be strong but I've seen too many Chinese wheels break to risk my neck with them.
Mx4life320 wrote:
I never thought about doing it this way, but it sounds like a better way to do it.. Can you get your hub anodized as well?
did you see my last post?

if you have OEM hubs, they are more than likely cast, which cannot be anodized. powder coating can be attempted with a low-heat but it is not recommended for ANY cast parts, as it will weaken it. Bob down at RTR turns down the hub, smoothes them, then polishes. after that he applies a candy-like (paint terms, i believe its a semi-transluscent) epoxy, you choice of color, and it gives it the anodized look. i contacted several members who have had theirs done by RTR and they have reported that after two years of riding there still are no chips, or scratches in the rims or hubs from normal use. one guy reported that hes tire iron sliped and he scratched part of the anodized rim but that was the 'mechanic's' (his) fault. sending mine off monday to be done. going black rims and red hubs, thinking of doing a geico replica bike down the road. i'll take pictures when i get them back and post up if you would like. 7-10days downtime for the work.
Mx4life320
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Mx4life320 2/17/2010 12:08pm
2/17/2010 12:08pm
Thanks mxracer32
mxracer32
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mxracer32 2/17/2010 12:15pm
2/17/2010 12:15pm
no problem. i was told some hubs that have been powdercoated were ok...i just have read online that heat can weaken the cast parts and I dont want to steer anyone in the wrong direction. safety is more important than how cool your hub is.
Farmercoby
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Farmercoby 4/9/2013 10:21pm
4/9/2013 10:21pm
Stay away from the DNA wheels.

Mine are about 2 years old. They are black with red hubs on a Honda 450. The front rim (only the front, back is still fine) has faded horrible. Looks gold now. They won't warranty then. If you want your bike to look good (and you do or you wouldn't be looking at wheel sets) don't buy DNA. Bearings are garbage also. Not a good experience for me.
captmoto
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captmoto 4/10/2013 8:05pm
4/10/2013 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/10/2013 8:06pm
Been running on DNA's for a year now with no probs, not even loose spokes and they were desert raced before I got it. I ain't no little boy either.
FGR01
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FGR01 4/11/2013 3:46pm
4/11/2013 3:46pm
Stock Honda rims are junk and are not worth anodizing or the trouble of re-lacing. If you are going to go through the trouble of unlacing the stock rims put good rims on it right away.
dogger315
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dogger315 4/12/2013 8:49am
4/12/2013 8:49am
mxracer32 wrote:
did you see my last post? if you have OEM hubs, they are more than likely cast, which cannot be anodized. powder coating can be attempted...
did you see my last post?

if you have OEM hubs, they are more than likely cast, which cannot be anodized. powder coating can be attempted with a low-heat but it is not recommended for ANY cast parts, as it will weaken it. Bob down at RTR turns down the hub, smoothes them, then polishes. after that he applies a candy-like (paint terms, i believe its a semi-transluscent) epoxy, you choice of color, and it gives it the anodized look. i contacted several members who have had theirs done by RTR and they have reported that after two years of riding there still are no chips, or scratches in the rims or hubs from normal use. one guy reported that hes tire iron sliped and he scratched part of the anodized rim but that was the 'mechanic's' (his) fault. sending mine off monday to be done. going black rims and red hubs, thinking of doing a geico replica bike down the road. i'll take pictures when i get them back and post up if you would like. 7-10days downtime for the work.
You can certainly powder coat cast OE hubs. TCR turned out hundreds of hubs that way for years. I did sets starting
back in the late 90s before anodized billet hubs were readily available. I put the OE hub on a lathe and turned it to
eliminate the casting grains, then polished, then media blasted it to prep for a two stage base/clear powder coat.

Aluminum alloy has a melting point in the 1000 degree plus range. Heating it to 400 degrees is not going to do anything
negative to the metallurgic properties of the alloy. The main reason you can't anodize a casting is due to the inherit
porosity of a casting which would yield a "blotchy" finish when attempted.

Today, it doesn't make much since to go through all that work when you can buy a set of anodized billet hubs for less than
a pair of stockers.

By the way, here's a picture of an OE Honda hub that was prepped and powder coated as described. That hub and all the
others like it, are still going strong today:



As for rims, I'm not a fan of Black rims. Unless you are a sponsored rider and get new rims for free each week, your Black
rims will look like crap in a very short amount of time. I have run Excel and DID rims over the years and both are good
quality and very strong. I switched to DID exclusively several years ago and have never had a rim related problem since.
I prefer the LTX series over the STX. The LTX is plenty strong and a little lighter than the STX:



dogger

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Xeno
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Xeno 4/12/2013 2:33pm
4/12/2013 2:33pm
Stock hub powder coated:





ToolMaker 4/20/2013 7:18am
4/20/2013 7:18am
mxracer32 wrote:
did you see my last post? if you have OEM hubs, they are more than likely cast, which cannot be anodized. powder coating can be attempted...
did you see my last post?

if you have OEM hubs, they are more than likely cast, which cannot be anodized. powder coating can be attempted with a low-heat but it is not recommended for ANY cast parts, as it will weaken it. Bob down at RTR turns down the hub, smoothes them, then polishes. after that he applies a candy-like (paint terms, i believe its a semi-transluscent) epoxy, you choice of color, and it gives it the anodized look. i contacted several members who have had theirs done by RTR and they have reported that after two years of riding there still are no chips, or scratches in the rims or hubs from normal use. one guy reported that hes tire iron sliped and he scratched part of the anodized rim but that was the 'mechanic's' (his) fault. sending mine off monday to be done. going black rims and red hubs, thinking of doing a geico replica bike down the road. i'll take pictures when i get them back and post up if you would like. 7-10days downtime for the work.
dogger315 wrote:
You can certainly powder coat cast OE hubs. TCR turned out hundreds of hubs that way for years. I did sets starting back in the late...
You can certainly powder coat cast OE hubs. TCR turned out hundreds of hubs that way for years. I did sets starting
back in the late 90s before anodized billet hubs were readily available. I put the OE hub on a lathe and turned it to
eliminate the casting grains, then polished, then media blasted it to prep for a two stage base/clear powder coat.

Aluminum alloy has a melting point in the 1000 degree plus range. Heating it to 400 degrees is not going to do anything
negative to the metallurgic properties of the alloy. The main reason you can't anodize a casting is due to the inherit
porosity of a casting which would yield a "blotchy" finish when attempted.

Today, it doesn't make much since to go through all that work when you can buy a set of anodized billet hubs for less than
a pair of stockers.

By the way, here's a picture of an OE Honda hub that was prepped and powder coated as described. That hub and all the
others like it, are still going strong today:



As for rims, I'm not a fan of Black rims. Unless you are a sponsored rider and get new rims for free each week, your Black
rims will look like crap in a very short amount of time. I have run Excel and DID rims over the years and both are good
quality and very strong. I switched to DID exclusively several years ago and have never had a rim related problem since.
I prefer the LTX series over the STX. The LTX is plenty strong and a little lighter than the STX:



dogger
Powder coating a casting does not equal a "blotchy" finish in and of itself. I was doing powder coating back before most people knew what it was. Coating a casting involves preheating the proper amount of time to gas out the casting. You can get a perfect finish on a casting if done right. I did some parts for Hobie Cat back in the early 80s that looked like polished little pieces of plastic.
TM
PTECH
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PTECH 4/20/2013 4:48pm
4/20/2013 4:48pm
His pictures show powdercoat... He said the reason why you cant ANNODIZE is because of the porosity.
SeanBrown281 3/23/2014 1:09am
3/23/2014 1:09am
I've run DNA Wheels for over 5 years now on a 2008 crf450 2012 kx250f and now 2013 model yz/125/250, I've NEVER ONCE had to tighten a spoke and there perfectly functioning and not seized, I'm a Canadian pro and I'm not going lightly on them! They look great, I've heard there a little heavier but never once have I noticed it, they haven't given me one single problem, but! If I had one negative to say it's that over time the hub color can fade, honestly I don't care because that's a small problem. Had a buddy who spent 1500 dollars on excel talon wheels and his wheel had over 6 inches of side to side play after ten hours of riding on a sand track! Supposed to be top of the line at top dollar? Yeah not thanks I'll do both bikes for 2/3 of what dubya charges!





queen of spodes 3/23/2014 5:06pm
3/23/2014 5:06pm
dogger315 wrote:
You can certainly powder coat cast OE hubs. TCR turned out hundreds of hubs that way for years. I did sets starting back in the late...
You can certainly powder coat cast OE hubs. TCR turned out hundreds of hubs that way for years. I did sets starting
back in the late 90s before anodized billet hubs were readily available. I put the OE hub on a lathe and turned it to
eliminate the casting grains, then polished, then media blasted it to prep for a two stage base/clear powder coat.

Aluminum alloy has a melting point in the 1000 degree plus range. Heating it to 400 degrees is not going to do anything
negative to the metallurgic properties of the alloy. The main reason you can't anodize a casting is due to the inherit
porosity of a casting which would yield a "blotchy" finish when attempted.

Today, it doesn't make much since to go through all that work when you can buy a set of anodized billet hubs for less than
a pair of stockers.

By the way, here's a picture of an OE Honda hub that was prepped and powder coated as described. That hub and all the
others like it, are still going strong today:



As for rims, I'm not a fan of Black rims. Unless you are a sponsored rider and get new rims for free each week, your Black
rims will look like crap in a very short amount of time. I have run Excel and DID rims over the years and both are good
quality and very strong. I switched to DID exclusively several years ago and have never had a rim related problem since.
I prefer the LTX series over the STX. The LTX is plenty strong and a little lighter than the STX:



dogger
dogger what does it cost to have hubs smoothed & painted like that. What you have on your bike looks awesome.. better than anodized IMHO.
respect_the_beast 3/23/2014 8:33pm
3/23/2014 8:33pm
mxracer32 wrote:
did you see my last post? if you have OEM hubs, they are more than likely cast, which cannot be anodized. powder coating can be attempted...
did you see my last post?

if you have OEM hubs, they are more than likely cast, which cannot be anodized. powder coating can be attempted with a low-heat but it is not recommended for ANY cast parts, as it will weaken it. Bob down at RTR turns down the hub, smoothes them, then polishes. after that he applies a candy-like (paint terms, i believe its a semi-transluscent) epoxy, you choice of color, and it gives it the anodized look. i contacted several members who have had theirs done by RTR and they have reported that after two years of riding there still are no chips, or scratches in the rims or hubs from normal use. one guy reported that hes tire iron sliped and he scratched part of the anodized rim but that was the 'mechanic's' (his) fault. sending mine off monday to be done. going black rims and red hubs, thinking of doing a geico replica bike down the road. i'll take pictures when i get them back and post up if you would like. 7-10days downtime for the work.
dogger315 wrote:
You can certainly powder coat cast OE hubs. TCR turned out hundreds of hubs that way for years. I did sets starting back in the late...
You can certainly powder coat cast OE hubs. TCR turned out hundreds of hubs that way for years. I did sets starting
back in the late 90s before anodized billet hubs were readily available. I put the OE hub on a lathe and turned it to
eliminate the casting grains, then polished, then media blasted it to prep for a two stage base/clear powder coat.

Aluminum alloy has a melting point in the 1000 degree plus range. Heating it to 400 degrees is not going to do anything
negative to the metallurgic properties of the alloy. The main reason you can't anodize a casting is due to the inherit
porosity of a casting which would yield a "blotchy" finish when attempted.

Today, it doesn't make much since to go through all that work when you can buy a set of anodized billet hubs for less than
a pair of stockers.

By the way, here's a picture of an OE Honda hub that was prepped and powder coated as described. That hub and all the
others like it, are still going strong today:



As for rims, I'm not a fan of Black rims. Unless you are a sponsored rider and get new rims for free each week, your Black
rims will look like crap in a very short amount of time. I have run Excel and DID rims over the years and both are good
quality and very strong. I switched to DID exclusively several years ago and have never had a rim related problem since.
I prefer the LTX series over the STX. The LTX is plenty strong and a little lighter than the STX:



dogger
Dogger,

Would you be able to provide the code for the powder used on your CR500 hub? I'd like to go the same route, and am going to send Troy my hubs to lathe them down and have a local coat them. My 500 projects moving along... slower than I'd like!
dogger315
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dogger315 3/24/2014 8:59am
3/24/2014 8:59am
queen of spodes wrote:
dogger what does it cost to have hubs smoothed & painted like that. What you have on your bike looks awesome.. better than anodized IMHO.
I charge a bunch because the process is labor intensive. Even if it's a new set of hubs, they come loaded with bearings,
seals, spacers, etc., so they have to be taken apart, then cleaned and out gassed. This is a lengthy process because any
trace of grease can ruin the powder coat finish. Once they are clean then they have to be milled then polished, followed by
more cleaning, then powder coated in two steps (base coat, clear coat). Then put back together.

Like I said in my previous post, the only reason I went through all the trouble back then, was because nothing else was
available. The few billet offerings were heavier and you needed special bearings, seals and spacers. I was really stoked
when TCR cracked the code and started offering hubs that were lighter and stronger than stock and compatible with OE
hardware.

If you are interested in going the powder coat route, I recommend you contact Troy at TCR. He started out doing just that
and he may still be willing to do a set. If he does give you a quote, I would be interested in hearing what he charges now
myself.

As for appearance, of the two hubs in the pictures I posted, only the first one is powder coated. That hub was on my 2003
CR250. The second picture is of a TCR billet hub on my 08 CR500. Here's another picture of a TCR billet hub. This one's
going on my 09 CR250 project:



I don't want to sound like a salesman for TCR, but up until now, nobody could produce a billet hub that was lighter than the
OE Honda cast unit. TCR does that and markets it for a very reasonable price.

My two cents.

Respect the beast, PM sent.

dogger

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