Can't ride the bike to its full potential?

flamenco
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flamenco 12/23/2013 7:27pm
12/23/2013 7:27pm
newmann wrote:
Think of Newmann on a bad ass fire breathing 74 CR250 giving it everything he has trying to pass his arch nemesis on a 250 Husky...
Think of Newmann on a bad ass fire breathing 74 CR250 giving it everything he has trying to pass his arch nemesis on a 250 Husky. About the time he thinks there is no way possible to make it happen, along comes Tom Benolkin on a 72 Penton 125 with 5 horsepower and six neutrals and passes us both in the same corner. Not only do you realize you aren't riding the bike to its potential, you realize you just might suck.
IWreckALot wrote:
Mother fuckin Tom Benolkin and his six neutrals? That would just make me want to cut the race short, ride back to the truck and break...
Mother fuckin Tom Benolkin and his six neutrals? That would just make me want to cut the race short, ride back to the truck and break out the 6 pack.
Yeah, Tom Benolkin is scary fast on those vintage bikes. I had new respect for the front wheels of 74 CR250s after seeing him slam a stepdown lap after lap.... Awesome time.


I remember the MotoGP racea few years ago at Suzuka that killed the young Japanese rider on a massive G-out.... Officials went over every angle, from poor track design, faulty safety equipment, etc. .... After studying the bike's data acquisition the conclusion was that the bike's ability to handle that obstacle at that speed was exceeded. I realize you are potentially skipping the question whether a different rider could have smoothed the bike out enough to be able to handle that dip in the track. On the other hand, it is possible, both theoretical and actual, that the bike just could not handle it at the speed traveled no matter the rider. The phrase "a bike's potential" seems complex, but not irrelevant.
Grizz
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Grizz 12/23/2013 7:37pm
12/23/2013 7:37pm
GuyB wrote:
That's part of it. Like AC said, the mount of tine spent at wide open is very small. Teams say it's very interesting comparing what they...
That's part of it. Like AC said, the mount of tine spent at wide open is very small. Teams say it's very interesting comparing what they hear from riders to what they see on data downloaded from the bike.
How many times do you hear somebody say they hit a jump wide open? Guess what, they didn't.
Chains
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Chains 12/23/2013 10:54pm
12/23/2013 10:54pm
My boy doesnt understand why his buddys are on ktm sxs 65s and he just on the sx 65. I have told him many times he's not useing everything that 65sx has to offer let alone a sxs
JeepnMike
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JeepnMike 12/23/2013 11:18pm
12/23/2013 11:18pm
I haven't ridden to full potential in years.. Just ask my wife. Every time I think I am giving 110%, shredding it, and my heart is racing, it just doesn't work out. I am beginning to suspect powerbands actually do have a shelf life, despite my earlier beliefs.

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jemcee
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jemcee 12/24/2013 12:08am
12/24/2013 12:08am
Grizz wrote:
How many times do you hear somebody say they hit a jump wide open? Guess what, they didn't.
While yes normally I'd agree but I have haha no really I have.. back in I think 95-96.. top gear absolutely flat out on my 2 stroke 250! the power was just starting to flatten out as we'd get to the jump although It was more of a small steepish hill than a jump but when you hit it that fast would send you (safely...ish) if I remember right about 20 metres (65ft) We had a radar gun there and I think the fastest I got was only something like 113 km/h (70ish mph) while yeah that's pretty bloody fast but I thought it'd be faster.. it faarken felt faster I'll give ya the hot tip haha it was so much fun after you could get past the idea of going that fast at a jump though

but in regards to the OP all I think is would a person be faster if any of their equipment was better? I don't know if many riders need better equipment these days though
erikcrvjl
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erikcrvjl 12/24/2013 2:14am
12/24/2013 2:14am
Spartacus wrote:
Define "full potential" please.
Torco1 wrote:
That's just it, what is the full potential? How do you even measure that? If there is a threshold for a part of the bike, how...
That's just it, what is the full potential? How do you even measure that? If there is a threshold for a part of the bike, how do you know if you're close to breaking it......without breaking it. Guys blow up motors racing outdoors......does that mean they went past the potential of the motor? Suspension gets blown out, did they go past the potential of that set up? One part of a bike might be able to handle one thing, while another part breaks.
What is a full moon? I mean is the moon really full? Is it possible to get the numbers to calculate whether or not a moon is actually "full" or not? Why is it that it turns red on certain occasions? Is that even possible? Some planets have more than one moon, do they start turning other colors too? One might be able to turn red, the other green and so on
reded
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reded 12/24/2013 4:19am
12/24/2013 4:19am
Not sure if this helps but I remember reading an interview with RC in his prime on the Zook. He stated that the bike and rider could possibly go faster but tire development was holding them back and they just didn't have enough grip to push it any harder.

This coming from the GOAT left me with the impression that newer bikes have more potential than 99.9% of the population can handle.
SouthwestMfg
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SouthwestMfg 12/24/2013 6:30am
12/24/2013 6:30am
newmann wrote:
Think of Newmann on a bad ass fire breathing 74 CR250 giving it everything he has trying to pass his arch nemesis on a 250 Husky...
Think of Newmann on a bad ass fire breathing 74 CR250 giving it everything he has trying to pass his arch nemesis on a 250 Husky. About the time he thinks there is no way possible to make it happen, along comes Tom Benolkin on a 72 Penton 125 with 5 horsepower and six neutrals and passes us both in the same corner. Not only do you realize you aren't riding the bike to its potential, you realize you just might suck.
This ^^^

So if you could get some of the pro's that post on here to add this discussion I'm sure they could summarize in the same way. Thomas , Bauer, Myers would have a similar description. David Villumen might not describe being passed by very many, but could tell you about having his ass handed to him on occasion (not to many). Even the GOAT(s) got straight up beat a few rare times.

Full potential is theoretical - first one to the checkers is reality. The discussions like this is the part in between - "bench racing"!

Merry Christmas you 'all !.
str8shooter 12/24/2013 6:45am
12/24/2013 6:45am
I look at it like this.....whats the difference in a SX or moto X lap time between the top three in both 250s and 450s?
Nearly no difference!! and sometimes like last season you see Tomac actually post a faster lap than anyone on a 450...

Now whats the HP difference from a 250 to a 450?......
...they might be "able" to go faster on a drag strip, but in terrain racing... I think its more a matter of a friction/traction limitation by a tire in both braking and accelerating.
visser62
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visser62 12/24/2013 8:10am
12/24/2013 8:10am
Spartacus wrote:
Define "full potential" please.
Torco1 wrote:
That's just it, what is the full potential? How do you even measure that? If there is a threshold for a part of the bike, how...
That's just it, what is the full potential? How do you even measure that? If there is a threshold for a part of the bike, how do you know if you're close to breaking it......without breaking it. Guys blow up motors racing outdoors......does that mean they went past the potential of the motor? Suspension gets blown out, did they go past the potential of that set up? One part of a bike might be able to handle one thing, while another part breaks.
erikcrvjl wrote:
What is a full moon? I mean is the moon really full? Is it possible to get the numbers to calculate whether or not a moon...
What is a full moon? I mean is the moon really full? Is it possible to get the numbers to calculate whether or not a moon is actually "full" or not? Why is it that it turns red on certain occasions? Is that even possible? Some planets have more than one moon, do they start turning other colors too? One might be able to turn red, the other green and so on
You sound like Bill O'Reilly.
Wright_36
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Wright_36 12/24/2013 9:29am
12/24/2013 9:29am
When I think of riding a bike to its full potential , the first thing that comes to mind was watching Tomac on his 250 outdoors this year. Im sure it wasn't 100% full potential but probably about as close as it gets.
bd
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bd 12/24/2013 10:56am
12/24/2013 10:56am
Another way to frame the question: are we riding to our full potential?
TripleFive 12/24/2013 11:10am
12/24/2013 11:10am
Why is it common for 250s to have faster lap times?
JM485
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JM485 12/24/2013 11:51am
12/24/2013 11:51am
TripleFive wrote:
Why is it common for 250s to have faster lap times?
I would guess the weight difference. It is a lot easier to change the direction of a lighter bike than it is with a heavier bike, so would guess the corner speeds are generally higher on the 250s. Since corner speed is so important, they can sometimes pull faster lap times.
Socket946
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Socket946 12/24/2013 11:59am
12/24/2013 11:59am
flamenco wrote:
Yeah, Tom Benolkin is scary fast on those vintage bikes. I had new respect for the front wheels of 74 CR250s after seeing him slam a...
Yeah, Tom Benolkin is scary fast on those vintage bikes. I had new respect for the front wheels of 74 CR250s after seeing him slam a stepdown lap after lap.... Awesome time.


I remember the MotoGP racea few years ago at Suzuka that killed the young Japanese rider on a massive G-out.... Officials went over every angle, from poor track design, faulty safety equipment, etc. .... After studying the bike's data acquisition the conclusion was that the bike's ability to handle that obstacle at that speed was exceeded. I realize you are potentially skipping the question whether a different rider could have smoothed the bike out enough to be able to handle that dip in the track. On the other hand, it is possible, both theoretical and actual, that the bike just could not handle it at the speed traveled no matter the rider. The phrase "a bike's potential" seems complex, but not irrelevant.
Shoya Tomizawa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoya_Tomizawa

RIP racer.
RACERX69
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RACERX69 12/24/2013 6:21pm
12/24/2013 6:21pm
Go watch some of the RC,Stewart 450 battles from the Outdoors 2006! I recall people saying they were going about as fast as you could go on a 450.
yz414
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yz414 12/24/2013 7:36pm
12/24/2013 7:36pm
motocross bikes are traction limited machines. why do you think tyla rattray asked mitch to de-tune his 450 last year, and i think barcia said something similar. the bikes are plenty powerful these days and going "wide open" simply means using all the power available in the bike.



and for the record i have hit a jump wide open in 4th on my 250F. i felt the throttle stop going off the face.
Craig_Lambrecht 12/25/2013 3:17pm
12/25/2013 3:17pm
pecu_83 wrote:
Think of JS256 on a 125, that was to the bikes fullest potential. Think of Johnny O'Mara on a 125 in MXdN1986, that was to the...
Think of JS256 on a 125, that was to the bikes fullest potential. Think of Johnny O'Mara on a 125 in MXdN1986, that was to the bikes fullest potential. Think of JS7 on a 250 against a field of 450´s, that was to the bikes fullest potential. I dont think that anyone can actually ride a 450 to its full potential. Just look at the lap times between the 250s and 450s of today. I think some of Bubbas Suzuki training videos are the closest that anyone has come to riding a 450 as fast as it can go.
Tumblin wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/12/23/39828/s1200_RVOOST.jpg[/img]
Jesus F!!!

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pecu_83
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pecu_83 12/25/2013 3:36pm
12/25/2013 3:36pm
Yeah. RV is a motherfucker and sure fast, but i still stick to my opinion. RV is the guy taking the 450 closest to the edge right now.
Airwing
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Airwing 12/25/2013 4:35pm
12/25/2013 4:35pm
The answer can probably be best summed up by the old saying about how it's better to go fast on a slow bike rather than to go slow on a fast bike.

Regardless of the theoretically true limits of a given machine, "not riding a bike to its potential" means the bike is too much for the rider. To sit and ponder whether or not the fastest rider in the world can get 100% of a bike's potential is to miss the point.
86 honda
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86 honda 12/25/2013 7:12pm
12/25/2013 7:12pm
When I started riding I rode the 250f. I was constantly adjusting valves putting in new valves and a cam. Putting on a big bore kit ect ect. Everyone said get a 450 and that crap will end. Three years later I have done nothing but ride and do usall maintenance. I could ring the neck off a 250 but its unnecessary to do all that on a 450. That's just me.
CR500Rider
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CR500Rider 12/25/2013 7:33pm
12/25/2013 7:33pm
reded wrote:
Not sure if this helps but I remember reading an interview with RC in his prime on the Zook. He stated that the bike and rider...
Not sure if this helps but I remember reading an interview with RC in his prime on the Zook. He stated that the bike and rider could possibly go faster but tire development was holding them back and they just didn't have enough grip to push it any harder.

This coming from the GOAT left me with the impression that newer bikes have more potential than 99.9% of the population can handle.
Funny, I was chastised for saying something pretty close to this.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 12/25/2013 9:06pm
12/25/2013 9:06pm
I would like to separate "full potential" of the motorcycle from simply who can ride it the fastest... Decades ago, there were guys who took bikes past their full potential, the bikes broke, the riders could actually hold them wfo around the track, etc.... Now days, I would argue the riders would break before the bikes... Perhaps there are no riders walking this planet that can ride a works 450 to it's full potential.. for example.... Maybe it would be a half a second a lap faster to hit the face of every sx triple pinned in third and land at the entrance of the following corner... Mayb the bikes could withstand that every lap and it would be faster, but there isn't a rider who wouldn't be injured by doing so....
Bytor
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Bytor 12/25/2013 9:13pm
12/25/2013 9:13pm Edited Date/Time 12/25/2013 9:15pm
CR500Rider wrote:
Funny, I was chastised for saying something pretty close to this.
Chastised? HAR HAR Hardly! That was about stock 450's. maybe you forgot. Which is such a broad statement that is was very ridiculous.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 12/25/2013 9:20pm
12/25/2013 9:20pm
A really good bike allows me to ride to my full potential. For about a lap.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 12/25/2013 9:21pm
12/25/2013 9:21pm
A really good bike allows me to ride to my full potential. For about a lap.

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