I think all this celebration is a little.........

jamma10
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8/26/2008 11:25am
You got to be joking with this post???? You don't know shit about the weather in Europa and still making up up a complete BS-story.... Marc...
You got to be joking with this post???? You don't know shit about the weather in Europa and still making up up a complete BS-story.... Marc rides on rougher tracks like Lommel and Lierop twice 45 minutes full speed in the GP's, so yes he's is a pro.
It's just different, you can't compare these situations. Saying he should be dissapointed is a complete joke. He has nothing to prove in the States. He just had fun, showed GREAT speed and is now heading back for the next GP, where he will be on full speed again for another 2 races of 45 minutes.
Jabjr222 wrote:
He couldn't run two 30 minute moto's at full speed... Could he? Did he? What race were you watching? Seriously... If I was a pro and...
He couldn't run two 30 minute moto's at full speed... Could he? Did he? What race were you watching? Seriously...


If I was a pro and ran a race outside of my series to prove I was fast and I couldn't finish the second half of the race, I would be disappointed. All that money and time and effort and he pulls out of the second moto because he was tired? How can you defend this?
Not being fast enough is one thing, not being able to handle the heat is another.
8/26/2008 11:29am
You got to be joking with this post???? You don't know shit about the weather in Europa and still making up up a complete BS-story.... Marc...
You got to be joking with this post???? You don't know shit about the weather in Europa and still making up up a complete BS-story.... Marc rides on rougher tracks like Lommel and Lierop twice 45 minutes full speed in the GP's, so yes he's is a pro.
It's just different, you can't compare these situations. Saying he should be dissapointed is a complete joke. He has nothing to prove in the States. He just had fun, showed GREAT speed and is now heading back for the next GP, where he will be on full speed again for another 2 races of 45 minutes.
Oh puhleeze- if Mark had pulled the entire field including Bubba by 30 seconds in both motos, you'd be running around naked, screaming at the top of your lungs that this was proof positive that the GP riders were superior to the US racers, and that no amount of "you just can't compare the 2 situations" would change the facts.

We're not trying to compare Speedway racing with Erzberg, or MotoGP with GNCC, we're comparing GPMX to AMA MX, and we're using a rider that in 2 weeks has competed in one of each. Saying that you can't compare the two because they're different is like saying that if one riders dominates at Lommel but struggles at Lierop his performance can't be measured- they're different tracks raced under different conditions. That'd be a load of nonsense, wouldn't it?
FreshTopEnd
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8/26/2008 11:30am
Seriously, though, it was not that hot as far as Nationals go. Nor, for a west coaster used to dry heat, was it that humid. I have been to hotter, more humid nationals at Washougal.

That said, even if it wasn't extreme, if you're not acclimated, it makes a difference.
FreshTopEnd
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8/26/2008 11:31am
Well, if they can't be compared, what is everyone arguing about.

The Shop

Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 11:40am
jamma10 wrote:
Not being fast enough is one thing, not being able to handle the heat is another.
That's part of it Jamma... isn't it? Seriously... It was too hot? Again, I'd be embarrassed if it were me. If he was in shape, he would have been able to handle the heat. Now, go pace yourself before you give yourself a cramp typing. I know you euro guys like to take it slow and you may not be able to handle such a quick pace.
jamma10
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8/26/2008 11:53am
Maybe his fitness was an issue, he's only recently returned to racing after breaking his foot...

But I don't personally think his fitness was the issue, if you're not used to such heat and humidity it's going to knock you sideways the first time you try and race in it surely? Ok some of the West Coast guys aren't used to the heat either, but at least they train for it, know what to expect and can acclimatise.

Fpr the record, the World Championship used to go to places like Brazil, but there are not many hot races on the calendar at the moment. Spain is usually hot, but this years GP was like this years Daytona SX.


FastEddy
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8/26/2008 11:54am
mxgeoff wrote:
De Reuver comes from 25th in the first corner to finish third and then scores a DNF and you guys start to celebrate. Hahaha. I am...
De Reuver comes from 25th in the first corner to finish third and then scores a DNF and you guys start to celebrate. Hahaha. I am not sure Marc could come from 25th on the first corner and finish third in a GP.

I think he really showed how similar the speed is between AMA and FIM and that is always our argument.

Don't start screaming that the AMA guys are now much quicker and stronger, it isn't so guys.

Geoff
I guess you are not here to prove anything either huh?
Calimero
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8/26/2008 11:58am
Calimero wrote:
Maybe I need also some different juice to keep up! Wink
Jabjr222 wrote:
What are you insinuating here?
I don't know, use your fantasy a little...
Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 11:59am
Calimero wrote:
I don't know, use your fantasy a little...
I'd assume you are referring to doping and steriods... but I was hoping you would be straight forward and not give hints... If you are going to post it, then post it.
FastEddy
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8/26/2008 12:00pm
Calimero wrote:
I don't know, use your fantasy a little...
Jabjr222 wrote:
I'd assume you are referring to doping and steriods... but I was hoping you would be straight forward and not give hints... If you are going...
I'd assume you are referring to doping and steriods... but I was hoping you would be straight forward and not give hints... If you are going to post it, then post it.
I think he is just joking around a little. Smile
Have a sense of humor.
Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:11pm
jamma10 wrote:
Maybe his fitness was an issue, he's only recently returned to racing after breaking his foot... But I don't personally think his fitness was the issue...
Maybe his fitness was an issue, he's only recently returned to racing after breaking his foot...

But I don't personally think his fitness was the issue, if you're not used to such heat and humidity it's going to knock you sideways the first time you try and race in it surely? Ok some of the West Coast guys aren't used to the heat either, but at least they train for it, know what to expect and can acclimatise.

Fpr the record, the World Championship used to go to places like Brazil, but there are not many hot races on the calendar at the moment. Spain is usually hot, but this years GP was like this years Daytona SX.


If you are in shape, you can handle the heat. Period. You make adjustments like extra fluids and more rest between rides. I'm sure he has access to trainers that could have helped him.


He wasted his time, risked his body, showed his true colors (in shape or not, he should have finished the moto)... He should have stayed home and let someone else (who had something to prove) ride that bike.


Now you are making excuses for him? breaking his foot?
Yamaha24
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8/26/2008 12:50pm
mxgeoff wrote:
De Reuver comes from 25th in the first corner to finish third and then scores a DNF and you guys start to celebrate. Hahaha. I am...
De Reuver comes from 25th in the first corner to finish third and then scores a DNF and you guys start to celebrate. Hahaha. I am not sure Marc could come from 25th on the first corner and finish third in a GP.

I think he really showed how similar the speed is between AMA and FIM and that is always our argument.

Don't start screaming that the AMA guys are now much quicker and stronger, it isn't so guys.

Geoff
Look how many of our top racers are out due to injury right now. If they were all healthy im sure MDR would not even be close to top five....Shorty schooled him!
Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 1:04pm
FastEddy wrote:
I think he is just joking around a little. Smile
Have a sense of humor.
Trust me when I say I am not taking anything too seriously... I just like the conversations... Plus, sometimes you need to push some buttons, devils advocate and all that...

I know I am talking a lot of trash but I'd be the first to be any of these guys a pint given the chance.
bogdan912
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8/26/2008 1:08pm
Calimero wrote:
Maybe I need also some different juice to keep up! Wink
Zinggg!
CalimeroFan
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8/26/2008 1:39pm
jamma10 wrote:
Maybe his fitness was an issue, he's only recently returned to racing after breaking his foot... But I don't personally think his fitness was the issue...
Maybe his fitness was an issue, he's only recently returned to racing after breaking his foot...

But I don't personally think his fitness was the issue, if you're not used to such heat and humidity it's going to knock you sideways the first time you try and race in it surely? Ok some of the West Coast guys aren't used to the heat either, but at least they train for it, know what to expect and can acclimatise.

Fpr the record, the World Championship used to go to places like Brazil, but there are not many hot races on the calendar at the moment. Spain is usually hot, but this years GP was like this years Daytona SX.


Jabjr222 wrote:
If you are in shape, you can handle the heat. Period. You make adjustments like extra fluids and more rest between rides. I'm sure he has...
If you are in shape, you can handle the heat. Period. You make adjustments like extra fluids and more rest between rides. I'm sure he has access to trainers that could have helped him.


He wasted his time, risked his body, showed his true colors (in shape or not, he should have finished the moto)... He should have stayed home and let someone else (who had something to prove) ride that bike.


Now you are making excuses for him? breaking his foot?
Couple of things:
- If you're not used to the heat and humidity, you can be as fit as JS is, it il blow you up. Just like what happened to Marc.
- Why would he hire somebody for only 1 race? That wouldn't make any difference.
- He did good by leaving the 2nd race. If he would crash because he was tired he would risk the rest of the GP-season, that's much more important for him.
- Allthough it wasn't the intension to prove anything, he still proved he has the speed, can't argue about that.

But I'm happy to see that most Americans do respect him for having the balls to come over and race. Sorry you can't see that.
Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:11pm
Couple of things: - If you're not used to the heat and humidity, you can be as fit as JS is, it il blow you up...
Couple of things:
- If you're not used to the heat and humidity, you can be as fit as JS is, it il blow you up. Just like what happened to Marc.
- Why would he hire somebody for only 1 race? That wouldn't make any difference.
- He did good by leaving the 2nd race. If he would crash because he was tired he would risk the rest of the GP-season, that's much more important for him.
- Allthough it wasn't the intension to prove anything, he still proved he has the speed, can't argue about that.

But I'm happy to see that most Americans do respect him for having the balls to come over and race. Sorry you can't see that.
He pulled out of a moto because he was too tired... What if JBS or any of our guys wanted to go over and race a gp and pulled out because he was too tired? What would you guys be saying then?


A trainer would have been able to help him get through the weekend. Of course it wouldn't have helped his overall conditioning (which was lacking) but they would have been able to help with diet and fluid/electrolyte intake.


No, it wasn't that hot or humid according to anyone there. If you are in shape, you can handle it. I know this. I used to be a personal trainer and I know my stuff. I'm not saying he would have felt 100% but everybody ran the same track and same conditions.


He proved he can run a fast lap... have you paid attention to the issues with our timed practice sessions? But ultimately, he proved he had the speed to run if the conditions are ok with him. But did he prove he has what it takes to run the series, hell no.


I respect anyone that has the balls to race, be it here or there.

Gio
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8/26/2008 2:12pm
Gio wrote:
Well said. Gio (an Italian living in CA)
Jabjr222 wrote:
Gio, STFU.
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non American member etc.) and your opinion will turn into an objective one as opposed to the emotional one you currently have.
FastEddy
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8/26/2008 2:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:11pm
Gio wrote:
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non...
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non American member etc.) and your opinion will turn into an objective one as opposed to the emotional one you currently have.
America #1 Smile
FreshTopEnd
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8/26/2008 2:29pm
"He did good by leaving the 2nd race. If he would crash because he was tired he would risk the rest of the GP-season, that's much more important for him."

I agree with this; it was a good decision given that he said he was gassed. Everything to lose and nothing to gain. Especially recovering from an injury. It was great to have him here and it definitely made for a better race day.

What people experience is what they experience, but there must be an awful lot of cold dry races in the GPs right now. It was a beautiful day. I would kill to have more summer days like that here in Sacramento.

What's a bit interesting is that the same themes are coming up now are the ones that came up 25 years ago when the American riders started having success in the MX and Trophee races; US races have a more driven, intense pace. They used to chalk it up to guys taking their SX approach outdoors. I think Carmichael raised the bar, too, in terms of that attitude.

It would be great to see a high profile US racer in his prime hit a GP to see whether there really is a different strategy that has to come into play for a GP, although it's hard to guage that from any one-off appearance against guys committed to racing a series and having that overall perspective to race against.
holeshot100
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8/26/2008 2:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:11pm
I am not sure about coming from 25th in the fiirst corner, but it was great to watch him ride. Lap chart below shows 8th place after 1 lap.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
1 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7
2 29 29 29 29 547 29 731 75 335 39 215 261 86 547 27 27 9
3 9 9 9 9 29 547 29 709 873 526 37 719 53 86 109 109 27
4 801 801 801 154 9 154 154 29 165 335 404 94 261 53 66 66 109
5 55 15 15 801 154 9 547 731 75 873 263 37 94 94 86 53 731
6 15 55 154 15 801 801 9 154 29 165 42 404 719 719 53 86 66
7 902 154 902 902 15 15 15 15 709 75 39 215 37 37 547 94 53
8 154 902 55 105 902 902 801 9 154 29 526 42 404 404 94 37 86
9 105 105 105 55 105 105 902 902 15 154 335 263 39 39 37 547 94
10 547 16 16 16 55 41 105 801 902 15 873 39 215 261 719 719 37
11 16 41 41 41 41 40 41 105 9 902 165 526 526 526 39 39 719
rocrac
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8/26/2008 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2008 2:47pm
[b]"He did good by leaving the 2nd race. If he would crash because he was tired he would risk the rest of the GP-season, that's much...
"He did good by leaving the 2nd race. If he would crash because he was tired he would risk the rest of the GP-season, that's much more important for him."

I agree with this; it was a good decision given that he said he was gassed. Everything to lose and nothing to gain. Especially recovering from an injury. It was great to have him here and it definitely made for a better race day.

What people experience is what they experience, but there must be an awful lot of cold dry races in the GPs right now. It was a beautiful day. I would kill to have more summer days like that here in Sacramento.

What's a bit interesting is that the same themes are coming up now are the ones that came up 25 years ago when the American riders started having success in the MX and Trophee races; US races have a more driven, intense pace. They used to chalk it up to guys taking their SX approach outdoors. I think Carmichael raised the bar, too, in terms of that attitude.

It would be great to see a high profile US racer in his prime hit a GP to see whether there really is a different strategy that has to come into play for a GP, although it's hard to guage that from any one-off appearance against guys committed to racing a series and having that overall perspective to race against.
It also might be worth noting that most US amateur national races which most of our riders are groomed from are short frantic races with huge premiums on starts and getting to the front as fast as you can.
Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 2:39pm
Gio wrote:
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non...
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non American member etc.) and your opinion will turn into an objective one as opposed to the emotional one you currently have.
Gio, STFU.
Gio
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8/26/2008 2:45pm
Gio wrote:
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non...
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non American member etc.) and your opinion will turn into an objective one as opposed to the emotional one you currently have.
FastEddy wrote:
America #1 Smile
Correct, as far as the second category is concerned... :-)
jamma10
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8/26/2008 3:02pm
jamma10 wrote:
Maybe his fitness was an issue, he's only recently returned to racing after breaking his foot... But I don't personally think his fitness was the issue...
Maybe his fitness was an issue, he's only recently returned to racing after breaking his foot...

But I don't personally think his fitness was the issue, if you're not used to such heat and humidity it's going to knock you sideways the first time you try and race in it surely? Ok some of the West Coast guys aren't used to the heat either, but at least they train for it, know what to expect and can acclimatise.

Fpr the record, the World Championship used to go to places like Brazil, but there are not many hot races on the calendar at the moment. Spain is usually hot, but this years GP was like this years Daytona SX.


Jabjr222 wrote:
If you are in shape, you can handle the heat. Period. You make adjustments like extra fluids and more rest between rides. I'm sure he has...
If you are in shape, you can handle the heat. Period. You make adjustments like extra fluids and more rest between rides. I'm sure he has access to trainers that could have helped him.


He wasted his time, risked his body, showed his true colors (in shape or not, he should have finished the moto)... He should have stayed home and let someone else (who had something to prove) ride that bike.


Now you are making excuses for him? breaking his foot?
Laughing read the last line of your post and the first line of my second paragraph. I said I didn't think it was a fitness thing.

Whether he should have finished that second moto or not, I think his 3rd place in the first moto was a pretty decent attempt and Im glad some people are able to recognise that. Behined all this banter that goes on between both sides, a bit of respect is all we (GP followers) ask for.

We don't hate you guys, we have a hell of alot of respect your riders and love watching the AMA - I have an RC4 sticker on my damn car for christ sake! It just often frustrates us that alot of you guys simply dismiss Motocross outside of the US Nationals or SX. If you love the sport you should take an interest in what else goes on out there, if anything to see who the AMA champions of the future are going to be Wink Wink Smile
KAWboy14
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8/26/2008 3:09pm
Calimero wrote:
Maybe I need also some different juice to keep up! Wink
Jabjr222 wrote:
What are you insinuating here?
Calimero wrote:
I don't know, use your fantasy a little...
....you realise he is fantasizing about you right now?
Gio
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8/26/2008 3:18pm
Gio wrote:
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non...
Look at the numbers (i.e. riders' performances in the Nationals and in GPs, number of pointlessly aggressive American Vital members Vs number of pointlessly aggressive non American member etc.) and your opinion will turn into an objective one as opposed to the emotional one you currently have.
Jabjr222 wrote:
Gio, STFU.
very articulate, you must be a trial lawyer.
Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 3:31pm
jamma10 wrote:
:laugh: read the last line of your post and the first line of my second paragraph. I said I didn't think it was a fitness thing...
Laughing read the last line of your post and the first line of my second paragraph. I said I didn't think it was a fitness thing.

Whether he should have finished that second moto or not, I think his 3rd place in the first moto was a pretty decent attempt and Im glad some people are able to recognise that. Behined all this banter that goes on between both sides, a bit of respect is all we (GP followers) ask for.

We don't hate you guys, we have a hell of alot of respect your riders and love watching the AMA - I have an RC4 sticker on my damn car for christ sake! It just often frustrates us that alot of you guys simply dismiss Motocross outside of the US Nationals or SX. If you love the sport you should take an interest in what else goes on out there, if anything to see who the AMA champions of the future are going to be Wink Wink Smile
Jamma, before you think I am being a total dick, read the post I wrote a little earlier saying I might talk a lot of trash but truth is I'd be one of the firsts to buy you guys a pint... I have a ton of respect for anyone in the sport... friendly/aggressive banter is a good thing.

I would love it if the upper level of the sport was similar to Moto GP, best riders in the world on the best machines in the world, every week another country and another track, every environment with more than one or two riders that can win. It does get boring seeing JBS and RV run away. I wish we would have had a different winner at every round.

Competition is a good thing and us Americans tend to get a little aggressive, be it the start of a moto or bs'ing in internet forums. As long as the organizations continue to insist on a separate series, we will always have this debate. And yes, I would love to see someone outside this country come over to steal the championship (like bayle who I was a fan of), if nothing more than to give us a kick in the ass.
Jabjr222
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8/26/2008 3:32pm
Gio wrote:
very articulate, you must be a trial lawyer.
Thanks Gio. Wink

Gio
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8/26/2008 3:37pm
Gio wrote:
very articulate, you must be a trial lawyer.
Jabjr222 wrote:
Thanks Gio. Wink

Peace out, MX rocks!
`ol Ger
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8/26/2008 4:17pm
We need Lord Alfred..

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