we need to seriously start talking about handicapping RV

8/24/2013 6:20pm Edited Date/Time 8/24/2013 10:55pm
BobbyM
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8/24/2013 6:33pm
He deserves it
Outsider
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8/24/2013 6:36pm
LOL Ezza!! Laughing
JLong
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8/24/2013 6:54pm
Maybe if his wheels came off?

The Shop

PastranaWho
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8/24/2013 7:01pm
RV is at the top because he's the hardest training rider out there, the man is on a mission and you cant get mad at that. The other 39 need to step it up if they want a chance to beat him.
jeffro503
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8/24/2013 9:57pm
Maybe tie you to the back of his bike with a 20 ft. rope and drag you around the track behind him. Slows him down, and...
Maybe tie you to the back of his bike with a 20 ft. rope and drag you around the track behind him. Slows him down, and gives the crowd a race to actually enjoy. A win win.
That was fucking awesome Scoot! LMFAO!
Hank_Thrill
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8/24/2013 10:04pm
Good thread.

I had quite a big chuckle.
DocMarten
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8/24/2013 10:25pm
dungey should be happy he finished in 2nd place

he better get comfy in 3rd place, Tomac is coming!!
JACK_Schit
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8/24/2013 11:20pm
BobbyM wrote:
something has to be done. make him race with only one grip (his choice which grip) mandatory use of Ching Shin tyres use a kx60 gas...
something has to be done.

make him race with only one grip (his choice which grip)

mandatory use of Ching Shin tyres

use a kx60 gas tank and allow pit stops

an eye patch over one eye (his choice which eye)

3 std. salmon weights installed inside his air box

something...GODDAM SOMETHING FOR SUCKS FAKES!!
Shit can his current team manager and let you do the job. Would you be up to the job?
JACK_Schit
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8/24/2013 11:21pm
EZZA 95B wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/08/24/29805/s1200_Take_Out_copy.jpg[/img]
Fucking awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
8/25/2013 1:37am
Outsider wrote:
Grant gave him a run... for a minute. Didn't see that comin.
I did. In my opinion, RV and JG practicing together should be against the rules. They are both benefiting, Josh seems to be getting fitter and able to turn fast laps longer. Ryan is finding more speed and is able to bury the field more often. I wonder how many other top guys seek out the strongest compettion they can find to practice with and learn from.
8/25/2013 2:05am
Outsider wrote:
Grant gave him a run... for a minute. Didn't see that comin.
I did. In my opinion, RV and JG practicing together should be against the rules. They are both benefiting, Josh seems to be getting fitter and...
I did. In my opinion, RV and JG practicing together should be against the rules. They are both benefiting, Josh seems to be getting fitter and able to turn fast laps longer. Ryan is finding more speed and is able to bury the field more often. I wonder how many other top guys seek out the strongest compettion they can find to practice with and learn from.
Huh?Unsure Dry
8/25/2013 6:40am
Outsider wrote:
Grant gave him a run... for a minute. Didn't see that comin.
I did. In my opinion, RV and JG practicing together should be against the rules. They are both benefiting, Josh seems to be getting fitter and...
I did. In my opinion, RV and JG practicing together should be against the rules. They are both benefiting, Josh seems to be getting fitter and able to turn fast laps longer. Ryan is finding more speed and is able to bury the field more often. I wonder how many other top guys seek out the strongest compettion they can find to practice with and learn from.
EZZA 95B wrote:
Huh?Unsure Dry
It's sarcasm Mate!
flarider
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8/25/2013 7:27am
I know a lot of you are joking in your responses in this thread, and while RV's dominance is great personally, it's bad for the sport as a whole. For a sport to be commercially viable, you have to have parity. A fan or new viewer has to believe that any competitor has a reasonable chance to win, this is why every other motorsport and even team sport, has rules to level the playing field, be it by mechanical or aerodynamic methods or by salary caps on teams.

Without parity, it is easy for the casual and even hardcore fan to become bored or disenchanted with racing and tune out from the broadcasts and/or not attend a race when it comes to their area.

That is bad for sponsors, OEM's and everyone involved.

People complain about the broadcasts being all over the map and the low payouts for riders, well the fact is, that is not going to improve if attendance or TV viewership is reduced.

Laugh all you want, but deep down you know that if there was a battle to the finish every week and a tight points race that goes down to the final moto every year, interest would go up and along with that, so would TV ratings and that brings money by way of advertising and sponsorship.

Until this sport figures out a way to create parity and equalize the racing, and I do not claim to know how, but until they do, SX/MX will continue to be considered a lower-tier lower-priority extreme sport that'll bounce all over your cable box at odd hours.

Flame away, but you know it's true.
Outsider
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8/25/2013 7:42am
A battle every week would be stellar, but mx would still not be a mainstream sport, ever, imo. It's fans will always people that have ridden or have friends or family that ride.
ATKpilot99
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8/25/2013 8:10am
flarider wrote:
I know a lot of you are joking in your responses in this thread, and while RV's dominance is great personally, it's bad for the sport...
I know a lot of you are joking in your responses in this thread, and while RV's dominance is great personally, it's bad for the sport as a whole. For a sport to be commercially viable, you have to have parity. A fan or new viewer has to believe that any competitor has a reasonable chance to win, this is why every other motorsport and even team sport, has rules to level the playing field, be it by mechanical or aerodynamic methods or by salary caps on teams.

Without parity, it is easy for the casual and even hardcore fan to become bored or disenchanted with racing and tune out from the broadcasts and/or not attend a race when it comes to their area.

That is bad for sponsors, OEM's and everyone involved.

People complain about the broadcasts being all over the map and the low payouts for riders, well the fact is, that is not going to improve if attendance or TV viewership is reduced.

Laugh all you want, but deep down you know that if there was a battle to the finish every week and a tight points race that goes down to the final moto every year, interest would go up and along with that, so would TV ratings and that brings money by way of advertising and sponsorship.

Until this sport figures out a way to create parity and equalize the racing, and I do not claim to know how, but until they do, SX/MX will continue to be considered a lower-tier lower-priority extreme sport that'll bounce all over your cable box at odd hours.

Flame away, but you know it's true.
Because in motocross the rider is a bigger part of the equation than any other motorsport thats a tough one. I do think an actual production rule where all the teams can only use parts that are available to the public would be a start. The "production" homologation rule has kind of been a joke from the start. This might not totally create parity but I think it would tighten things up a bit.
flarider
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8/25/2013 8:23am
Outsider wrote:
A battle every week would be stellar, but mx would still not be a mainstream sport, ever, imo. It's fans will always people that have ridden...
A battle every week would be stellar, but mx would still not be a mainstream sport, ever, imo. It's fans will always people that have ridden or have friends or family that ride.
I respectfully disagree.
I believe that if there was parity, a close race every week, where anything can happen and 4 or 5 riders have a chance at winning on the final lap, the public will take notice, not with one race or overnight, but it will gain fans due to that excitement.

I remember a few years back (maybe a decade ago), where MXA addressed this issue and essentially said the same things.
One suggestion was actually used in the Monster Cup, that "Joker Lane" idea (they had no name for it at the time), but it left open an element of unknown and variability.
Another idea was actually used in the X-Games a few years back when they were doing Supermoto, and that is pit stops. Personally, as a business owner and sponsor, I like this the most, because it gives the TV crew a chance to actually show the sponsors on the bike and crew wear, and creates a larger team effort and add a huge "what if" factor. Make fuel tanks 1/2 gallon, require a pit stop and a rear wheel change and let's say it has to be done after the first two laps and before the final two lap board comes out. Now, anything can happen...what if the bike doesn't start? What if mechanic struggles? What if fuel fill isn't swift enough? How fast can they do it? A pit stop is not going to be perfect every time.

There needs to be a sense of anything can happen and anything can go wrong, as it is now, if RV gets the holeshot, the game is over. How many of you said that yesterday when RV got the holeshot? How many of you went "Shit, wonder what's happening on the football game?" once RV got the holeshot and had a 4 second lead by the third turn?

I don't know what, but some parity needs to be introduced, some variable, something to make the fan or casual viewer wonder "but what if?"
Ctrefz787
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8/25/2013 8:29am
flarider wrote:
I know a lot of you are joking in your responses in this thread, and while RV's dominance is great personally, it's bad for the sport...
I know a lot of you are joking in your responses in this thread, and while RV's dominance is great personally, it's bad for the sport as a whole. For a sport to be commercially viable, you have to have parity. A fan or new viewer has to believe that any competitor has a reasonable chance to win, this is why every other motorsport and even team sport, has rules to level the playing field, be it by mechanical or aerodynamic methods or by salary caps on teams.

Without parity, it is easy for the casual and even hardcore fan to become bored or disenchanted with racing and tune out from the broadcasts and/or not attend a race when it comes to their area.

That is bad for sponsors, OEM's and everyone involved.

People complain about the broadcasts being all over the map and the low payouts for riders, well the fact is, that is not going to improve if attendance or TV viewership is reduced.

Laugh all you want, but deep down you know that if there was a battle to the finish every week and a tight points race that goes down to the final moto every year, interest would go up and along with that, so would TV ratings and that brings money by way of advertising and sponsorship.

Until this sport figures out a way to create parity and equalize the racing, and I do not claim to know how, but until they do, SX/MX will continue to be considered a lower-tier lower-priority extreme sport that'll bounce all over your cable box at odd hours.

Flame away, but you know it's true.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Because in motocross the rider is a bigger part of the equation than any other motorsport thats a tough one. I do think an actual production...
Because in motocross the rider is a bigger part of the equation than any other motorsport thats a tough one. I do think an actual production rule where all the teams can only use parts that are available to the public would be a start. The "production" homologation rule has kind of been a joke from the start. This might not totally create parity but I think it would tighten things up a bit.
I agree with the RV dominance being bad for the sport the rest not so much. People want to see good racing and competition.
8/25/2013 8:41am
RV's just riding on another level. When I'm watching he looks like a bulldozer just going where ever he wants, crashing and plowing into bumps. Where other guys look as they're finessing things. Everything is clicking so well for him, it will take someone that can find that same aggression to stop him.
Outsider
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8/25/2013 9:20am Edited Date/Time 8/25/2013 9:21am
Outsider wrote:
A battle every week would be stellar, but mx would still not be a mainstream sport, ever, imo. It's fans will always people that have ridden...
A battle every week would be stellar, but mx would still not be a mainstream sport, ever, imo. It's fans will always people that have ridden or have friends or family that ride.
flarider wrote:
I respectfully disagree. I believe that if there was parity, a close race every week, where anything can happen and 4 or 5 riders have a...
I respectfully disagree.
I believe that if there was parity, a close race every week, where anything can happen and 4 or 5 riders have a chance at winning on the final lap, the public will take notice, not with one race or overnight, but it will gain fans due to that excitement.

I remember a few years back (maybe a decade ago), where MXA addressed this issue and essentially said the same things.
One suggestion was actually used in the Monster Cup, that "Joker Lane" idea (they had no name for it at the time), but it left open an element of unknown and variability.
Another idea was actually used in the X-Games a few years back when they were doing Supermoto, and that is pit stops. Personally, as a business owner and sponsor, I like this the most, because it gives the TV crew a chance to actually show the sponsors on the bike and crew wear, and creates a larger team effort and add a huge "what if" factor. Make fuel tanks 1/2 gallon, require a pit stop and a rear wheel change and let's say it has to be done after the first two laps and before the final two lap board comes out. Now, anything can happen...what if the bike doesn't start? What if mechanic struggles? What if fuel fill isn't swift enough? How fast can they do it? A pit stop is not going to be perfect every time.

There needs to be a sense of anything can happen and anything can go wrong, as it is now, if RV gets the holeshot, the game is over. How many of you said that yesterday when RV got the holeshot? How many of you went "Shit, wonder what's happening on the football game?" once RV got the holeshot and had a 4 second lead by the third turn?

I don't know what, but some parity needs to be introduced, some variable, something to make the fan or casual viewer wonder "but what if?"
Adding the "what if" factor may increase the viewership, but possibly penalizes a rider with things that are out of his control.

Honestly, on that shitty Elsinore dirt (it's hurt me personally more than once) I didn't feel it was over until it was over yesterday... sketchy!

I get what you're saying though.
flarider
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8/25/2013 9:24am
Outsider wrote:
Adding the "what if" factor may increase the viewership, but possibly penalizes a rider with things that are out of his control. Honestly, on that shitty...
Adding the "what if" factor may increase the viewership, but possibly penalizes a rider with things that are out of his control.

Honestly, on that shitty Elsinore dirt (it's hurt me personally more than once) I didn't feel it was over until it was over yesterday... sketchy!

I get what you're saying though.
...but possibly penalizes a rider with things that are out of his control.

and that may be what's needed to create parity.
dantheman
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8/25/2013 9:30am
Maybe if motocross becomes what flarider "suggests" the sport will be larger and more mainstream, but I'll be done watching it.
Which is fine, I'm just one guy who spectates at this point.

"Artificially" changing it for popularity, errr.... parity, would be soley for the monetization of the sport and nothing to do with making better "REAL" racing.

Interesting to see where it goes...
Outsider
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8/25/2013 10:20am
flarider wrote:
...but possibly penalizes a rider with things that are out of his control.

and that may be what's needed to create parity.
And that's where the problem is, imo.

Some "fans" may enjoy that, but, any true fan/rider/racer wants to see a guy like AreVee, who has put in the work, get rewarded with a win... I want to see the best guy at his craft doing what he does best. Maybe I'm not mainstream enough. Smile
flarider
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8/25/2013 10:34am
Outsider wrote:
And that's where the problem is, imo. Some "fans" may enjoy that, but, any true fan/rider/racer wants to see a guy like AreVee, who has put...
And that's where the problem is, imo.

Some "fans" may enjoy that, but, any true fan/rider/racer wants to see a guy like AreVee, who has put in the work, get rewarded with a win... I want to see the best guy at his craft doing what he does best. Maybe I'm not mainstream enough. Smile
Hypothetical:

Brand X comes up with a technology, engine or mechanical, that makes their bike so superior and no other bike can compete against it, and the homologated "production" unit is still light years behind, so only their factory riders have access to it, legally, but it creates an automatic and huge advantage.

So, now what?

This hypothetical is not that far off when you consider the technology of today with electronics, fuel injection, and engineering.

So then what do you do?
Outsider
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8/25/2013 10:58am
flarider wrote:
Hypothetical: Brand X comes up with a technology, engine or mechanical, that makes their bike so superior and no other bike can compete against it, and...
Hypothetical:

Brand X comes up with a technology, engine or mechanical, that makes their bike so superior and no other bike can compete against it, and the homologated "production" unit is still light years behind, so only their factory riders have access to it, legally, but it creates an automatic and huge advantage.

So, now what?

This hypothetical is not that far off when you consider the technology of today with electronics, fuel injection, and engineering.

So then what do you do?
Do you know something we don't? Smile


An advantage is an advantage, but I still believe it's down to the rider to win.
flarider
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8/25/2013 11:10am
Outsider wrote:
Do you know something we don't? Smile


An advantage is an advantage, but I still believe it's down to the rider to win.
So then RV can win on a TM or a Husky or a GasGas?

Not trying to argue, and I agree it is MOSTLY rider, but good equipment and especially factory equipment IS an advantage, ask any rider that had factory equipment and went back to non-factory.
Outsider
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8/25/2013 11:44am
flarider wrote:
So then RV can win on a TM or a Husky or a GasGas? Not trying to argue, and I agree it is MOSTLY rider, but...
So then RV can win on a TM or a Husky or a GasGas?

Not trying to argue, and I agree it is MOSTLY rider, but good equipment and especially factory equipment IS an advantage, ask any rider that had factory equipment and went back to non-factory.
Of course it is, but's it's not the most important thing, ask Weston Peick.
WeiserGuy
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8/25/2013 11:51am
Starting backwards? Do the baseball bat spinning dizzy game before the 30 second board goes sideways? I'm saying make him burn a fatty and shot gun 4 beers before he lines up. Then again the last one has likely been done and may give him an advantage. Just joking

RV has them whipped mentally before the gate drops. He goes to the line every time believing he CAN'T lose and the others guys go to the line hoping he has an issue and they have a chance at winning. The one exception to not being mentally beaten before the gate drops is Ryan Dungey and he's in just as good of physical shape as RV. Ryan Villopoto is willing to hold it on longer and is very comfortable hanging it out when he needs to. That goes back to his competition knowing in the back of their head that he will do whatever it takes to win. He's so similar to RC.
flarider
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8/25/2013 11:54am
flarider wrote:
So then RV can win on a TM or a Husky or a GasGas? Not trying to argue, and I agree it is MOSTLY rider, but...
So then RV can win on a TM or a Husky or a GasGas?

Not trying to argue, and I agree it is MOSTLY rider, but good equipment and especially factory equipment IS an advantage, ask any rider that had factory equipment and went back to non-factory.
Outsider wrote:
Of course it is, but's it's not the most important thing, ask Weston Peick.
and ask Weston how he thinks he'd do if he had access to all the things the elite riders do.

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