Elsinore and Miller Damper Outdoor Series

Regis
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Regis 8/24/2013 7:05am
8/24/2013 7:05am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2013 7:10am
petie11o5 wrote:
These tracks do not provide good racing. Isn't it sad to say that if someone flew myself and my bike to Elsinore or Miller (National Tracks)...
These tracks do not provide good racing. Isn't it sad to say that if someone flew myself and my bike to Elsinore or Miller (National Tracks) I would not want to ride them. It wasn't even fun watching RV2 or Tomac this past weekend. Outdoors is supposed to be fast, wide open and flowing. We see enough technical BS during the winter months. I have never been one to complain but after watching te Tomac Elsinore helmet cam, how can you not complain? These are NOT outdoor motocross tracks. Look at the fucking dirt!!! I don't care how much sand or wood chips or money they spent on building obstacles, the best tracks have this naturally.
You should't have turned the channel.

the racing was epic. Not sure what race you were watching but in the second 250 moto there were seven guys within 2 seconds of each other for a while and the title was determined with about 3 turns left in the race.


And you are complaining about he dirt and saying it isn't MX? REAL MX is unloading your bike and riding whatever is given to you. Not perfect loam. So cal / west coast nationals have always been known for hard pack, blue groove dirt. What is wrong with that? Not every national needs to be a fox "dream on " poster
Regis
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Regis 8/24/2013 7:06am
8/24/2013 7:06am
rc4187 wrote:
If dirt bikes are racing... I will watch. I don't care what kind of track they're on.
avidchimp wrote:
^^^ This. You asshats need something else to complain about.
Gotta agree with these two gents!
Regis
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Regis 8/24/2013 7:07am
8/24/2013 7:07am
baker_25_ccso wrote:
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding...
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding any or hardly any at all, Just keyboard jockey's, I thought the MMP track from the comfort of my living looked like outdoor motocross to me, what in hell else was it. Half you idiot's on here couldn't even make a lap around that BEAST (I couldn't either for that matter) While I was sitting there watching the race I was thinking for all the crap I've heard about this place being flat, It has a decent amount of elevation like the start and lots of other places. It had 20 lines all around the track and the same guys that own real motocross tracks, owned this one. You guys sound like a bunch of old bastards that don't want any change, But the track made me think, SHIT, Those guys are world class to ride that BEAST that FAST ! An that's what I thought the first time I seen Budds Creek in person, and Muddy Creek Nationals in person, and I have raced both tracks myself and have never seen the tracks in the shape they are in when the nationals roll around.
another man with his head on straight.
Landonious217
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Landonious217 8/24/2013 7:10am
8/24/2013 7:10am
Please come back to Texas! Either one of these two, lets get some of this beautiful red dirt on the circuit.

Swan MX Tyler, TX



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okxgmrTM2eQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5C0ovINrI

Cycle Ranch San Antonio, TX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3zk0AwBcU














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burn1986
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burn1986 8/24/2013 7:12am
8/24/2013 7:12am
Does it really matter about Utah and Elsinore? It's Davey's deal and he can run it the way he wants.
Regis
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Regis 8/24/2013 7:15am
8/24/2013 7:15am
Landonious217 wrote:
Please come back to Texas! Either one of these two, lets get some of this beautiful red dirt on the circuit. Swan MX Tyler, TX [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/08/24/29735/s1200_21FX5020.jpg[/img]...
Please come back to Texas! Either one of these two, lets get some of this beautiful red dirt on the circuit.

Swan MX Tyler, TX



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okxgmrTM2eQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5C0ovINrI

Cycle Ranch San Antonio, TX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3zk0AwBcU














Track looks epic!!!


How is the parking? Pits? Traffic into/out of track? There are many, many different things to think about than just a track. I am sure this has been considered at this track, no?
baker_25_ccso 8/24/2013 7:21am
8/24/2013 7:21am
baker_25_ccso wrote:
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding...
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding any or hardly any at all, Just keyboard jockey's, I thought the MMP track from the comfort of my living looked like outdoor motocross to me, what in hell else was it. Half you idiot's on here couldn't even make a lap around that BEAST (I couldn't either for that matter) While I was sitting there watching the race I was thinking for all the crap I've heard about this place being flat, It has a decent amount of elevation like the start and lots of other places. It had 20 lines all around the track and the same guys that own real motocross tracks, owned this one. You guys sound like a bunch of old bastards that don't want any change, But the track made me think, SHIT, Those guys are world class to ride that BEAST that FAST ! An that's what I thought the first time I seen Budds Creek in person, and Muddy Creek Nationals in person, and I have raced both tracks myself and have never seen the tracks in the shape they are in when the nationals roll around.
Indy mxer wrote:
I'm probably one of the old bastards you refer to. lol But I agree with you 100%. Change is good. There's a hell of a lot...
I'm probably one of the old bastards you refer to. lol

But I agree with you 100%. Change is good.
There's a hell of a lot more DC has to worry about than our opinions.
Like outside sponsors, they're the life blood of racing.

Overall, I thought the MMP race was good as well.
Rough as hell and lots of ruts. There's no exact definition for an outdoor mx track.
As far as Elsinore goes, I'll reserve judgement until after the race.

Btw, I couldn't last more than a lap either on that rough sob.
I'm in the +30 class myself, so I may have misquoted with that, Sometimes I still think I'm younger than I am, Just didn't want you to think a young punk was passing judgement on everybody !

But, and I know this is what the message boards are for, and I get lots of entertainment from it, I get tired of the endless bitching about not a REAL motocross track, Oh shit, I got to F'N flick the TV channel 3 times to watch a LIVE race, I can't want the F'N race LIve the internet, KILL DC because the alli site is F'N requiring acertain cable provider, MX SPORTS is the DEVIL, I mean there are just a bunch of dumb asses in here, Some are entertaining, but sometimes just give the shit a rest. Just enjoy the sport you obviously love. What other reason would you be in this place for !!! Watch the DAMN race LIVE for like 9th out of 12 rounds this season and just thank DC that we don'thave to go to the local shop and get the Cycle News to find out what happned, or call 1-900-Pro-Race (now that shit was high tech) And lay off Davey for God's sake, I've met the guy for 10 minutes ever, and the dude the is hardcore motocross and has given and sacrificed more for this sport and people that most people have for anything in there life much less a sport !
baker_25_ccso 8/24/2013 7:23am
8/24/2013 7:23am
Landonious217 wrote:
Please come back to Texas! Either one of these two, lets get some of this beautiful red dirt on the circuit. Swan MX Tyler, TX [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/08/24/29735/s1200_21FX5020.jpg[/img]...
Please come back to Texas! Either one of these two, lets get some of this beautiful red dirt on the circuit.

Swan MX Tyler, TX



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okxgmrTM2eQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5C0ovINrI

Cycle Ranch San Antonio, TX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3zk0AwBcU














Regis wrote:
Track looks epic!!! How is the parking? Pits? Traffic into/out of track? There are many, many different things to think about than just a track. I...
Track looks epic!!!


How is the parking? Pits? Traffic into/out of track? There are many, many different things to think about than just a track. I am sure this has been considered at this track, no?
Don't know if I need to get the wifey to add an egg and some oil and whip that shit up into some brownie batter or roost !!! That's sweet looking terra firma !!!
baker_25_ccso 8/24/2013 7:30am
8/24/2013 7:30am
There is some beautiful red dirt on the circuit at Muddy Creek !!! They just tried to cover up with all that black compost crap, but it doesn't look like that stuff, It's harder, slick when wet, sloppy when ripped and wet, and powder dust when dry !!!
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 8/24/2013 7:43am
8/24/2013 7:43am
baker_25_ccso wrote:
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding...
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding any or hardly any at all, Just keyboard jockey's, I thought the MMP track from the comfort of my living looked like outdoor motocross to me, what in hell else was it. Half you idiot's on here couldn't even make a lap around that BEAST (I couldn't either for that matter) While I was sitting there watching the race I was thinking for all the crap I've heard about this place being flat, It has a decent amount of elevation like the start and lots of other places. It had 20 lines all around the track and the same guys that own real motocross tracks, owned this one. You guys sound like a bunch of old bastards that don't want any change, But the track made me think, SHIT, Those guys are world class to ride that BEAST that FAST ! An that's what I thought the first time I seen Budds Creek in person, and Muddy Creek Nationals in person, and I have raced both tracks myself and have never seen the tracks in the shape they are in when the nationals roll around.
Indy mxer wrote:
I'm probably one of the old bastards you refer to. lol But I agree with you 100%. Change is good. There's a hell of a lot...
I'm probably one of the old bastards you refer to. lol

But I agree with you 100%. Change is good.
There's a hell of a lot more DC has to worry about than our opinions.
Like outside sponsors, they're the life blood of racing.

Overall, I thought the MMP race was good as well.
Rough as hell and lots of ruts. There's no exact definition for an outdoor mx track.
As far as Elsinore goes, I'll reserve judgement until after the race.

Btw, I couldn't last more than a lap either on that rough sob.
baker_25_ccso wrote:
I'm in the +30 class myself, so I may have misquoted with that, Sometimes I still think I'm younger than I am, Just didn't want you...
I'm in the +30 class myself, so I may have misquoted with that, Sometimes I still think I'm younger than I am, Just didn't want you to think a young punk was passing judgement on everybody !

But, and I know this is what the message boards are for, and I get lots of entertainment from it, I get tired of the endless bitching about not a REAL motocross track, Oh shit, I got to F'N flick the TV channel 3 times to watch a LIVE race, I can't want the F'N race LIve the internet, KILL DC because the alli site is F'N requiring acertain cable provider, MX SPORTS is the DEVIL, I mean there are just a bunch of dumb asses in here, Some are entertaining, but sometimes just give the shit a rest. Just enjoy the sport you obviously love. What other reason would you be in this place for !!! Watch the DAMN race LIVE for like 9th out of 12 rounds this season and just thank DC that we don'thave to go to the local shop and get the Cycle News to find out what happned, or call 1-900-Pro-Race (now that shit was high tech) And lay off Davey for God's sake, I've met the guy for 10 minutes ever, and the dude the is hardcore motocross and has given and sacrificed more for this sport and people that most people have for anything in there life much less a sport !
No problem here. I'm 56 and even my son calls me old man. lol
But I still love to ride and love the sport.
And I'm happy I get to watch it, mostly live on tv.

DC is all in, and is doing what he thinks is best for the sport. I like the fact that he's trying new things. But when you do that sometimes things don't go as planned. No big deal.
Just keep trying.

He even comes on here and interacts with us when we want his opinion or input. I don't think you'll get that with any other form of racing.
NP301
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NP301 8/24/2013 7:53am
8/24/2013 7:53am
Whole track is on a major incline, GoPro doesn't do it justice.
bobby397
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bobby397 8/24/2013 7:54am
8/24/2013 7:54am
COAL-TRAIN wrote:
This has to be about money. I would love to see MX Sports get the boot! Then get GH and Southwick back. Lots of happy fans!
Yea, get rid of the ones who kept AMA motocross alive with live tv instead of ethier catching the action a month later In a mag or watching the race a week later. Southwick and Glen Helen were/are promoter issues, blame them. If you dumb fucks think you can do better buy them out, if not shut the fuck up.
Outsider
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Outsider 8/24/2013 7:57am
8/24/2013 7:57am
The fact is, it does matter what the hardcore fan wants. It's the hardcore fan that buys tickets year after year, just like I did for Glen Helen and Hangtown.

Haven't bought one for Elsinore and don't plan to because that isn't moto, sorry. Sure, I will watch it on tv, maybe that's what the promoters want now, instead of bodies lining the fences.

The TV coverage lately has been great and I'm stoked to have it.
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Indy mxer 8/24/2013 7:59am
8/24/2013 7:59am
COAL-TRAIN wrote:
This has to be about money. I would love to see MX Sports get the boot! Then get GH and Southwick back. Lots of happy fans!
bobby397 wrote:
Yea, get rid of the ones who kept AMA motocross alive with live tv instead of ethier catching the action a month later In a mag...
Yea, get rid of the ones who kept AMA motocross alive with live tv instead of ethier catching the action a month later In a mag or watching the race a week later. Southwick and Glen Helen were/are promoter issues, blame them. If you dumb fucks think you can do better buy them out, if not shut the fuck up.
Agree!! Well said.
Just quit candy coating your statements. lol
dirtdog36
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dirtdog36 8/24/2013 8:23am
8/24/2013 8:23am
COAL-TRAIN wrote:
This has to be about money. I would love to see MX Sports get the boot! Then get GH and Southwick back. Lots of happy fans!
bobby397 wrote:
Yea, get rid of the ones who kept AMA motocross alive with live tv instead of ethier catching the action a month later In a mag...
Yea, get rid of the ones who kept AMA motocross alive with live tv instead of ethier catching the action a month later In a mag or watching the race a week later. Southwick and Glen Helen were/are promoter issues, blame them. If you dumb fucks think you can do better buy them out, if not shut the fuck up.
^^^^ x 100000
lucero10x
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lucero10x 8/24/2013 8:45am
8/24/2013 8:45am
Outsider wrote:
The fact is, it [i]does[/i] matter what the hardcore fan wants. It's the hardcore fan that buys tickets year after year, just like I did for...
The fact is, it does matter what the hardcore fan wants. It's the hardcore fan that buys tickets year after year, just like I did for Glen Helen and Hangtown.

Haven't bought one for Elsinore and don't plan to because that isn't moto, sorry. Sure, I will watch it on tv, maybe that's what the promoters want now, instead of bodies lining the fences.

The TV coverage lately has been great and I'm stoked to have it.
Great. One less car in that sea of a mess trying to get out of there tonight. Your presence will be sorely missed.
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Outsider 8/24/2013 10:30am
8/24/2013 10:30am
lucero10x wrote:
Great. One less car in that sea of a mess trying to get out of there tonight. Your presence will be sorely missed.
Sounds like so much fun too!

Hey, at least it will be hot as fuck and smell like ass... sigh, I miss that place. Used to ride there every week
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Grizz 8/24/2013 10:48am
8/24/2013 10:48am
dhp_mma94 wrote:
quit bitching [img]https://i.imgur.com/d3IGu.gif[/img]
quit bitching
This.

I always hated Steel City. Watching and racing it. Where does that fit into this conversation?

Pit Row

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lostboy819 8/24/2013 10:49am
8/24/2013 10:49am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2013 11:05am
I am not one of the die hard natural terrain track guys, I liked the Miller Utah track and didnt think it looked like a SX track at all and loved the high speeds of the track. I would take Glen Helen over Pala and Elsinore any day but it looks like DC the nationals as close to the high population areas as possible so I think the location of the track is more important than the track itself.

You sure seem sensitive about WWM motocross park, looks like a cool track but there are lots of great tracks out there that will never even be considered for a national because of location or promoter is not on DCs A list. WWM is close to a very populated area and looks easy to get to so it also has that going for it. There are some great tracks in Texas that will never even be considered because of their remote locations.
*WMT*Corby #28 8/24/2013 10:52am
8/24/2013 10:52am
Whatever. I dont exactly care about the track, certainly not as much as getting to see the best riders in the world ride the crap out of it.
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mxb2 8/24/2013 11:18am
8/24/2013 11:18am
*WMT*Corby #28 wrote:
Whatever. I dont exactly care about the track, certainly not as much as getting to see the best riders in the world ride the crap out...
Whatever. I dont exactly care about the track, certainly not as much as getting to see the best riders in the world ride the crap out of it.
Well said.
ClassCClairVoyant 8/24/2013 12:00pm
8/24/2013 12:00pm
I watch the GP's most weeks and it seems like a lot of their venues are now fairgrounds tracks. IMO most of them are not worthy of hosting a GP. When Utah came up I figured it would be more of the same. Maybe the riders didn't like it but as a dumb fan I thought it was really good. There were tons of lines and interesting sections that were fun to watch and made for good racing. No, I don't want to see professional motocross become outdoor version of supercross, but considering what they had to work with they did an amazing job...
petie11o5
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petie11o5 8/24/2013 1:57pm
8/24/2013 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 8/24/2013 2:43pm
GuyB wrote:
Damper?
Yes, damper. I'll save you the trouble of looking up the definition. You're welcome for the teachings of some new vocabulary. I know words outside of the basic slang english may be confusing for a lot of you on here.

Definition of DAMPER:

1: a dulling or deadening influence

2: a person or thing that has a depressing, subduing, or inhibiting effect

Example: That Petie11o5 dumbass puts a ***damper*** on the VitalMX forum.
petie11o5
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petie11o5 8/24/2013 2:22pm
8/24/2013 2:22pm
baker_25_ccso wrote:
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding...
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding any or hardly any at all, Just keyboard jockey's, I thought the MMP track from the comfort of my living looked like outdoor motocross to me, what in hell else was it. Half you idiot's on here couldn't even make a lap around that BEAST (I couldn't either for that matter) While I was sitting there watching the race I was thinking for all the crap I've heard about this place being flat, It has a decent amount of elevation like the start and lots of other places. It had 20 lines all around the track and the same guys that own real motocross tracks, owned this one. You guys sound like a bunch of old bastards that don't want any change, But the track made me think, SHIT, Those guys are world class to ride that BEAST that FAST ! An that's what I thought the first time I seen Budds Creek in person, and Muddy Creek Nationals in person, and I have raced both tracks myself and have never seen the tracks in the shape they are in when the nationals roll around.
Blah blah blah. You know how I know it is an issue? When the top level riders are complaining about it. Tomac this week, and JS7 last week. If you can't see the difference watching the races, then I guess you don't really get it. And I'm definitely not a keyboard jockey, I have traveled all over the midwest to ride the best tracks available to us. From Alabama to Michigan, and places in between. There are only 12 rounds on the circuit. 12 ROUNDS! Why not provide the best tracks possible to race on? I understand we are trying to "grow" the sport and have races that Ford Executives will attend. But at the same time we are giving up the greatness that motocross was founded on - beautiful, natural terrain motocross tracks. Bottom line - you guys are just settling. Probably did the same with your wives.
baker_25_ccso 8/24/2013 3:10pm
8/24/2013 3:10pm
baker_25_ccso wrote:
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding...
All of these guys sitting on here whinning and complaining about it not being motocross this, and not being motocross that, are prolly not even riding any or hardly any at all, Just keyboard jockey's, I thought the MMP track from the comfort of my living looked like outdoor motocross to me, what in hell else was it. Half you idiot's on here couldn't even make a lap around that BEAST (I couldn't either for that matter) While I was sitting there watching the race I was thinking for all the crap I've heard about this place being flat, It has a decent amount of elevation like the start and lots of other places. It had 20 lines all around the track and the same guys that own real motocross tracks, owned this one. You guys sound like a bunch of old bastards that don't want any change, But the track made me think, SHIT, Those guys are world class to ride that BEAST that FAST ! An that's what I thought the first time I seen Budds Creek in person, and Muddy Creek Nationals in person, and I have raced both tracks myself and have never seen the tracks in the shape they are in when the nationals roll around.
petie11o5 wrote:
Blah blah blah. You know how I know it is an issue? When the top level riders are complaining about it. Tomac this week, and JS7...
Blah blah blah. You know how I know it is an issue? When the top level riders are complaining about it. Tomac this week, and JS7 last week. If you can't see the difference watching the races, then I guess you don't really get it. And I'm definitely not a keyboard jockey, I have traveled all over the midwest to ride the best tracks available to us. From Alabama to Michigan, and places in between. There are only 12 rounds on the circuit. 12 ROUNDS! Why not provide the best tracks possible to race on? I understand we are trying to "grow" the sport and have races that Ford Executives will attend. But at the same time we are giving up the greatness that motocross was founded on - beautiful, natural terrain motocross tracks. Bottom line - you guys are just settling. Probably did the same with your wives.
You probably think Troy was beautiful, natural terrain track, and to add in the 12 of 12 comment. You were exactly one of the whiny gimme everything now, I gotta have it all bastards I was speaking of. What does our wives have to do with it, You probably just settled with what ever your MOM fixed for dinner BITCH !!! That last comment was juvenile and unneccesary of me to add, but I just had to !
Spartacus
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Spartacus 8/24/2013 3:38pm
8/24/2013 3:38pm
baker_25_ccso wrote:
I'm in the +30 class myself, so I may have misquoted with that, Sometimes I still think I'm younger than I am, Just didn't want you...
I'm in the +30 class myself, so I may have misquoted with that, Sometimes I still think I'm younger than I am, Just didn't want you to think a young punk was passing judgement on everybody !

But, and I know this is what the message boards are for, and I get lots of entertainment from it, I get tired of the endless bitching about not a REAL motocross track, Oh shit, I got to F'N flick the TV channel 3 times to watch a LIVE race, I can't want the F'N race LIve the internet, KILL DC because the alli site is F'N requiring acertain cable provider, MX SPORTS is the DEVIL, I mean there are just a bunch of dumb asses in here, Some are entertaining, but sometimes just give the shit a rest. Just enjoy the sport you obviously love. What other reason would you be in this place for !!! Watch the DAMN race LIVE for like 9th out of 12 rounds this season and just thank DC that we don'thave to go to the local shop and get the Cycle News to find out what happned, or call 1-900-Pro-Race (now that shit was high tech) And lay off Davey for God's sake, I've met the guy for 10 minutes ever, and the dude the is hardcore motocross and has given and sacrificed more for this sport and people that most people have for anything in there life much less a sport !
Wow, 30+. I hope you have your final directive completed, you're almost dead.

Good luck in the after life.......
baker_25_ccso 8/24/2013 5:44pm
8/24/2013 5:44pm
baker_25_ccso wrote:
I'm in the +30 class myself, so I may have misquoted with that, Sometimes I still think I'm younger than I am, Just didn't want you...
I'm in the +30 class myself, so I may have misquoted with that, Sometimes I still think I'm younger than I am, Just didn't want you to think a young punk was passing judgement on everybody !

But, and I know this is what the message boards are for, and I get lots of entertainment from it, I get tired of the endless bitching about not a REAL motocross track, Oh shit, I got to F'N flick the TV channel 3 times to watch a LIVE race, I can't want the F'N race LIve the internet, KILL DC because the alli site is F'N requiring acertain cable provider, MX SPORTS is the DEVIL, I mean there are just a bunch of dumb asses in here, Some are entertaining, but sometimes just give the shit a rest. Just enjoy the sport you obviously love. What other reason would you be in this place for !!! Watch the DAMN race LIVE for like 9th out of 12 rounds this season and just thank DC that we don'thave to go to the local shop and get the Cycle News to find out what happned, or call 1-900-Pro-Race (now that shit was high tech) And lay off Davey for God's sake, I've met the guy for 10 minutes ever, and the dude the is hardcore motocross and has given and sacrificed more for this sport and people that most people have for anything in there life much less a sport !
Spartacus wrote:
Wow, 30+. I hope you have your final directive completed, you're almost dead.

Good luck in the after life.......
lol !
burn1986
Profile picture for user burn1986
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bossier city, LA, USA
burn1986 8/24/2013 6:30pm
8/24/2013 6:30pm
Yeah, looking back on the season, they need to have the 2 crappy tracks maybe in the middle somewhere. This season ending was kind of sour.
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
TeamGreen 8/24/2013 7:03pm
8/24/2013 7:03pm
Dear Bitchers & Moaners,

Just got back from the track. Racing was classic Outdoor Racing. Track was a whole lot better than you guys would believe; but, no worries. You won't have Lake Elsinore to whine about anymore.

See you in Vegas.
burn1986
Profile picture for user burn1986
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Location
bossier city, LA, USA
burn1986 8/24/2013 8:53pm
8/24/2013 8:53pm
Vegas? Eeegghhk .....

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