RV vs RD training

Edited Date/Time 8/20/2013 6:55pm
Could Dungey have won the championship with RV 's trainer????
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jamma10
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8/20/2013 7:07am
Could Roczen have won the championship with John Tomac busting his ass???
kongols
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8/20/2013 7:07am
I can see a future for this thread.
Shawn142
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8/20/2013 7:08am
RV was beating Dungey for titles long before the trainer switch, what was the reason then?
slipdog
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8/20/2013 7:15am
jamma10 wrote:
Could Roczen have won the championship with John Tomac busting his ass???
I don't know what he does(Roczen) or who he trains with, but that's quite possible. Even in these last few rounds his o/a speed was not really the issue, he really lost the races with the lack of end moto speed.

The Shop

Flip109
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8/20/2013 7:21am
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do with the trainer. RV is just a little bit faster and a WAY better passer. The dung has his days also but most of the time RV is the fastest guy on the track. Baggett and weimar both train with aldon and RV during the week. You don't see them killing everyone. I don't think its the trainer/training.
mcopsey
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8/20/2013 7:23am
Flip109 wrote:
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do...
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do with the trainer. RV is just a little bit faster and a WAY better passer. The dung has his days also but most of the time RV is the fastest guy on the track. Baggett and weimar both train with aldon and RV during the week. You don't see them killing everyone. I don't think its the trainer/training.
Agree with this completely, it's more attitude than anything. Dungey can make the passes but doesn't force the issue like RV. It's awesome to watch.
8/20/2013 7:26am
jamma10 wrote:
Could Roczen have won the championship with John Tomac busting his ass???
slipdog wrote:
I don't know what he does(Roczen) or who he trains with, but that's quite possible. Even in these last few rounds his o/a speed was not...
I don't know what he does(Roczen) or who he trains with, but that's quite possible. Even in these last few rounds his o/a speed was not really the issue, he really lost the races with the lack of end moto speed.
He has given up more than couple times when things don't go his way. He's going to have a really hard time in the big bikes because there is going to be so much more competition.
Dirtydane
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8/20/2013 7:27am
I have heard its actually the trainer that is riding....
Outsider
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8/20/2013 7:32am
No. But I do think Aldon gets his riders to peak at the right times, RV performed awesome in both sx and mx at the end.

I believe it's RV's aggression that gets him to the front much faster, but it's his riding style that helps him the most out front. The way he stays on gas hard and the front end light it looks he's floating over bumps so much easier, it's really noticeably when he starts cruising on the last lap and the front starts slamming bumps more and becomes much less smooth. It's not Dungey isn't on the gas as well, but I think he's more forward on the bike. I believe RV's bike is setup better than anyone as well.

JMO
Hut
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8/20/2013 7:42am
I think the K-Roc vs Tomac question is more valid. Roczen seems to have the talent and speed, Tomac has that plus he is strong as a beast and it shows.
rollingtach
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8/20/2013 8:23am
I think physical training is key to a riders success but the differences in the style of riding is one reason for RV pulling a gap on RD in the first laps of most races. He's fit and I'm sure he's intense but RD seems to be on the seat of the bike more than RV. The training RV gets helps him maintain that aggressive off the seat style for the whole race..
oshow
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8/20/2013 8:28am
Flip109 wrote:
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do...
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do with the trainer. RV is just a little bit faster and a WAY better passer. The dung has his days also but most of the time RV is the fastest guy on the track. Baggett and weimar both train with aldon and RV during the week. You don't see them killing everyone. I don't think its the trainer/training.
Baggett doesn't train with Aldon anymore. But I understand the point you are trying to make.
musmanni
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8/20/2013 8:34am
Dungey doesn't seem to get tired at all, so not sure how a different trainer would help.
jamma10
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8/20/2013 8:51am
Hut wrote:
I think the K-Roc vs Tomac question is more valid. Roczen seems to have the talent and speed, Tomac has that plus he is strong as...
I think the K-Roc vs Tomac question is more valid. Roczen seems to have the talent and speed, Tomac has that plus he is strong as a beast and it shows.
Would be really interested to know Kennys own thoughts about it all.
8/20/2013 9:20am Edited Date/Time 8/20/2013 9:21am
Some weeks ago we had a documentary series in german TV about exceptional young sport talents, Ken was one of them.
You could see his training routine pretty good. He does train, but not with the motivation and drive like Tomac I guess. He does a lot of training at home, for example sitting on the hometrainer/bicycle/however you call it and play Playstation next to it :D Or he goes biking with a bunch of friends or his dad instead of going with professionals so he actually reaches his limit. Or when he goes running he takes his dog with him.
Well I guess thats his problem but he knows that and he doesnt care, he said that often enough. I mean if Tomac had not stepped up to that insane level, Ken would still have had that title covered.
But I'mpretty sure next year when he races at P5-7 or something like that on regular basis, he's gonna step up a bit then (and if he does, he still has 2 more years until he's tomacs age, a lot can happen in 2 years if he trains like he should)
Kevin_Reed
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8/20/2013 9:45am
RV is an animal, no doubt. Dungey is also. My mind is weak when it come to exercise and is always looking for an excuse. RD must have his mind right to push his fitness all year. I would definitely need a trainer to kick my but on bad days.
LoudLove
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8/20/2013 10:11am
So is conditioning the primary difference between the Nationals and GPs?
Shawn142
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8/20/2013 10:19am Edited Date/Time 8/20/2013 10:21am
As I said before, when has Villopoto not beaten Dungey on a consistent basis (excluding injury of course)? On a 250 with Randy Lawerence as his trainer and looking like dopey faced kid, RV still waxed the floor with Dungey and everyone else for that matter. He has always had more raw speed, the training just refined that.

If anything it's Dungey who really improved and stepped it up. RV was a winner from the beginning, Dungey struggled to get that ball rolling outdoors.
IWreckALot
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8/20/2013 10:25am
crusty_xx wrote:
Some weeks ago we had a documentary series in german TV about exceptional young sport talents, Ken was one of them. You could see his training...
Some weeks ago we had a documentary series in german TV about exceptional young sport talents, Ken was one of them.
You could see his training routine pretty good. He does train, but not with the motivation and drive like Tomac I guess. He does a lot of training at home, for example sitting on the hometrainer/bicycle/however you call it and play Playstation next to it :D Or he goes biking with a bunch of friends or his dad instead of going with professionals so he actually reaches his limit. Or when he goes running he takes his dog with him.
Well I guess thats his problem but he knows that and he doesnt care, he said that often enough. I mean if Tomac had not stepped up to that insane level, Ken would still have had that title covered.
But I'mpretty sure next year when he races at P5-7 or something like that on regular basis, he's gonna step up a bit then (and if he does, he still has 2 more years until he's tomacs age, a lot can happen in 2 years if he trains like he should)
I just came in here to say that they should do a one off TV show highlighting the fitness and diets these guys do. I would watch every second of it. It would be a good idea for The MOTO: Inside the Outdoors series if it came back. . .

As for RD and RV, they're both at the peak of their career and it sucks for Dungey that they have peaked at the same time. Both riders are very dominant but only one can be a winner. I have said this several times before but I think the KTM is the deal maker for RV. Dungey's bike isn't handling quite at the same level RV's is. You can see it on the track.
DocMarten
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8/20/2013 11:14am
RV is working with a professional trainer who has experience using PEDS and access to doctors who are linked with cycling. If you don't think this is happening, you are inrecidbly naive.

Last time I noticed, RD was working with some random black dude trainer at the local gym down in Tallahasse, FL.

I can't imagine some dude who is a personal trainer has the access and knowledge about how to use dope.
jeffro503
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8/20/2013 11:19am
You can train all you want to , to last a 35min race...........but when you get to their elite type of fitness.........winning races basically comes down to just Raw speed and staying comfortable pushing that little bit extra past your comfort zone. RV just seems to be a little more comfortable than RD when it comes to this.
Hut
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8/20/2013 11:34am
DocMarten wrote:
RV is working with a professional trainer who has experience using PEDS and access to doctors who are linked with cycling. If you don't think this...
RV is working with a professional trainer who has experience using PEDS and access to doctors who are linked with cycling. If you don't think this is happening, you are inrecidbly naive.

Last time I noticed, RD was working with some random black dude trainer at the local gym down in Tallahasse, FL.

I can't imagine some dude who is a personal trainer has the access and knowledge about how to use dope.
Outsider
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8/20/2013 11:46am Edited Date/Time 8/20/2013 12:05pm
DocMarten wrote:
RV is working with a professional trainer who has experience using PEDS and access to doctors who are linked with cycling. If you don't think this...
RV is working with a professional trainer who has experience using PEDS and access to doctors who are linked with cycling. If you don't think this is happening, you are inrecidbly naive.

Last time I noticed, RD was working with some random black dude trainer at the local gym down in Tallahasse, FL.

I can't imagine some dude who is a personal trainer has the access and knowledge about how to use dope.
So, last time you noticed, was RV using dope in '07, specifically at the MXoN?
radialone
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8/20/2013 12:58pm
Flip109 wrote:
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do...
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do with the trainer. RV is just a little bit faster and a WAY better passer. The dung has his days also but most of the time RV is the fastest guy on the track. Baggett and weimar both train with aldon and RV during the week. You don't see them killing everyone. I don't think its the trainer/training.
mcopsey wrote:
Agree with this completely, it's more attitude than anything. Dungey can make the passes but doesn't force the issue like RV. It's awesome to watch.
Agree with both of these guys. Training's not the difference maker for RD.

However...it did make the difference for RV. Another question to consider is:

Had RD hired Aldon when he became available & consequently kept RV from being able to work with him, would RV be what he is today?
Flip109
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8/20/2013 2:02pm
radialone wrote:
Agree with both of these guys. Training's not the difference maker for RD. However...it did make the difference for RV. Another question to consider is: Had...
Agree with both of these guys. Training's not the difference maker for RD.

However...it did make the difference for RV. Another question to consider is:

Had RD hired Aldon when he became available & consequently kept RV from being able to work with him, would RV be what he is today?
I just think that he won 3 250f outdoor titles with a different trainer against mostly the same group and dungey. They are just older and on 450's now and its the same results. Well Dungey is a LOT closer to RV now compared to 250fs. Maybe dungey is the one on the PEDS! (joking)Grinning
FroDiddy
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8/20/2013 2:08pm
Flip109 wrote:
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do...
RV passing and leaving or just flat getting the start and walking away from dungey in the begginging of races has a lot less to do with the trainer. RV is just a little bit faster and a WAY better passer. The dung has his days also but most of the time RV is the fastest guy on the track. Baggett and weimar both train with aldon and RV during the week. You don't see them killing everyone. I don't think its the trainer/training.
If true, it's hard to believe Weimer turns in the results he does with Aldon as his trainer. Tomac, I believe, would have had his hands full if Baggett wasn't recovering from the wrist injury.

I think the racing would be closer between the two if Dungey had Aldon. Yes, RV is faster, but fitness would come in to play at some point.
8/20/2013 2:35pm
DocMarten wrote:
RV is working with a professional trainer who has experience using PEDS and access to doctors who are linked with cycling. If you don't think this...
RV is working with a professional trainer who has experience using PEDS and access to doctors who are linked with cycling. If you don't think this is happening, you are inrecidbly naive.

Last time I noticed, RD was working with some random black dude trainer at the local gym down in Tallahasse, FL.

I can't imagine some dude who is a personal trainer has the access and knowledge about how to use dope.
Hut wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/08/20/29575/s1200_covering_ears1.jpg[/img]
My whole thing with PED's is where do you draw the line? What's legal and what isn't?

People are saying RV's using (Something I wouldn't doubt but who knows), but I could have swore I saw a video from SWATS on youtube in which MA800 was using deer antler velvet (the same brand of stuff Ray Lewis was accused of using before last years superbowl, a product which he and a bunch of other NFL players endorsed. This product is extremely hard to test, and it is now on the banded substances list.

I just wish we knew who was using and who wasn't...

What would people think if RV was using? What about RC? Not going to play the blame game but all these guys racing are professional athletes who want to win. If they think they can use this product or that product, and they're told the won't test positive for it, some are going to cheat.

Another important point: How many drugs tests did Lance fail out of the hundreds or thousands he took?
ocscottie
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8/20/2013 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2013 2:38pm
I think the racing would be closer between the two if Dungey had Aldon.

No offense but...RD works his ASSOFF and is one of the fittest riders out there...period. The fact of the matter is that RV is more intense / aggressive on the track, zero to do w/ fitness.
Corey_Tallent
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8/20/2013 2:55pm
Its the turns everyone. The turns. If RD was as aggressive going in and out of a turn as RV is, they would both be right beside each other all of the time. RD lets up and you can see it on any race video, while RV actually speeds up in a turn.
Flip109
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8/20/2013 3:23pm
I also think that one thing that might make RV a little better. Something that might give him a huge advantage pressure wise and hanging it out wise. He's stated on a video before that he'd walk away right now if he needed to. If things got rough for him. I don't think he's as serious about the whole thing as say Dungey. Not that he thinks its a joke or anything. Anybody that trains that hard wants it obviously. But in that one video (I forget which one. It was one were his parents talk about pressuring him when he was young) he just seems like he'd be content just walking away if it came to that. I think that NFG attitude really helps him deal with pressure and hanging it out more than Dungey. This could all just be bullshit. But just for bench racing its something to think about.

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