Outdoor Points System

Great news! The AMA has officially adopted this idea as a new rule to be implemented immediately.

To help clear up any confusion that may occur, they have even produced an easy to understand guide to help fans track their favorite riders points throughout the season.

You'll need to amend this idea 50 more times and still you have a bad idea.

Your asking casual fans to not get confused with subtraction and negative points that could tally up to the hundreds, you eliminate almost every team that gets a DNF from title contention, you eliminate great comebacks such as Stewart taking 2nd(I could be wrong on that exact placement) during his 125 days, and you do all of that for what reason really? Because placing top 20 in both motos is better than placing 17th then 22nd?

If you want to make it fair you'll need to award points to 40th. Any other way creates more problems.

Yes.

Remember when rallying them up you need to tally up EVERY other rider as well. I'll wait.

I should've distinguished sarcasm.

Nerd, can you name one racing series on the planet that punishes a racer by taking away points to someone who successfully finishes the race?

After going through this whole thread,there are some good points,but some things seem to complicate things more,I'd say if you just give more points further down like that its the easiest way and definitely could have some good stuff come out of it

I dunno...........who's watching 28th place anyway.

Might be a good thing they get there ass off the track and out of the way for the guys that have it going that weekend.

Thinking about it, it would go against tradition, but paying points to 40th seems the thing to do.

I mean, 35th would still pay 5 points.

Who is watching 28th place? I am because that is where my son is sometimes. It pisses me off that some of you want to disrespect and discredit the hard work the privateers put in for nothing. They have just as much right to the track as the factory riders. They earned it, it is not easy to make the field even in the 250 class.
As far as the points, pay points for the overalls just like in the amateurs. It works there doesnt it? Yes if you make the field you should get credit because the 40 you see on the track every weekend there is 40 to 50 more that did not make it.

i know they get paid , but its peanuts..
the 21 and up club comes to mind ..
maybe an outside sponsor can supply more purse from 21 and up ? ( redbull ) .. i think riders are all getting 425$ to make 21st to 40

^ This.

Right or wrong, Nerd won't let this go. I can't recall seeing him once post that his thoughts were wrong, even when it was obvious.

Calm down cowboy, no disrespect all intended.
Congrats on getting as far as you have.

But lets get real, 40,000 people are there.
You and a handful of industry are watching 29th.
The other 38,750 are the ones I'm talking about.

As far as getting off the track when one finds oneself
in 37th or whatever, imo they take the track away
from you with the blue flags.
Crap rule imo, the blue flags, but that's the way everyone seems to want it.

And I agree about the paying to 40, you made the main, you get at least 1 point.

Okay, well it has been suggested that we compare the last 10yrs of moto with one of the suggested points systems to see the differences. I will just take the 2012 450 class and show you what it would look like with the points system I, as well as some of you, thought would work. This is the 45,42,40,38,36,35,34,33....1 system. Sorry, I didn't do this for Nerd's negative points system. Like this system I've calculated, I would think there would be some mixed results with his.

RIDER-----------------Original pts---------------New Pts-----------------Positions gained/lost-------------
1. Ryan Dungey-----------580-------------------------1060-----------------------------SAME---------
2. Mike Alessi--------------453-------------------------915-------------------------------SAME---------
3. Jacob Weimer----------355-------------------------816-------------------------------(-1)-----------
4. Andrew Short-----------354-------------------------823--------------------------------(+1)----------
5. Broc Tickle--------------349-------------------------785-------------------------------SAME---------
6. Josh Grant--------------277-------------------------713-------------------------------SAME----------
7. Justin Brayton----------247-------------------------697------------------------------SAME----------
8. Kyle Chisholm---------211--------------------------663-----------------------------SAME----------
9. Davi Millsaps----------176--------------------------424--------------------------------(-6)-------------
10. Tyla Rattray------------172-------------------------447--------------------------------(-3)-----------
11. James Stewart-------163-------------------------335--------------------------------(-13)---------
12. Nico Izzi-----------------163-------------------------431--------------------------------(-2)----------
13. Brett Metcalfe----------142-------------------------342--------------------------------(-9)----------
14. Michael Byrne---------138-------------------------486---------------------------------(+3)---------
15. Ben LaMay-------------105-------------------------549---------------------------------(+6)---------
16. Tommy Hahn---------101-------------------------275---------------------------------(-12)---------
17. Christian Craig-------99---------------------------345--------------------------------(-4)-----------
18. Vince Friese----------95----------------------------514--------------------------------(+8)----------
19. Ryan Sipes------------94---------------------------315--------------------------------(-6)-----------
20. Robert Kiniry----------93----------------------------349-------------------------------(+1)-----------
21. Jimmy Albertson-----82----------------------------388-------------------------------(+4)-----------
22. Kyle Regal-------------72----------------------------411-------------------------------(+6)-----------
23. Derek Anderson-----72----------------------------483--------------------------------(+11)---------
24. Les Smith-------------66----------------------------340--------------------------------(+1)-----------
25. Cole Thompson-----64----------------------------259--------------------------------(-4)-----------
26. Mathew Lemoine----61----------------------------279--------------------------------(-1)----------
27. Phillip Nicoletti-------57---------------------------163---------------------------------(-13)---------
28. Mike Brown-----------48----------------------------171--------------------------------(-9)-----------
29. Kevin Rookstool-----44----------------------------348-------------------------------(+9)----------
30. Weston Peick--------40----------------------------120--------------------------------(-13)--------
31. Fredrik Noren--------39----------------------------214--------------------------------SAME-------
32. Billy Laninovich-----37----------------------------218---------------------------------(+2)---------
33. Robert Marshall----36----------------------------188---------------------------------(-1)----------
34. Austin Howell-------33----------------------------382---------------------------------(+16)-------
35. John Dowd----------30----------------------------181---------------------------------SAME-------
36. PJ Larsen------------18----------------------------85----------------------------------(-9)-----------
37. Nicholas Wey-------16----------------------------117---------------------------------(-7)----------
38. Shane Sewell-------15----------------------------57-----------------------------------(-10)-------
39. Preston Mull---------13----------------------------177---------------------------------(+3)--------
40. Evgeny Mikhaylov---11----------------------------209---------------------------------(+8)--------
41. Ronnie Stewart------10---------------------------151----------------------------------(-1)--------
42. Justin Sipes----------9-----------------------------167----------------------------------(+4)-------
43. Heath Harrison------8-----------------------------191----------------------------------(+10)-----
44. Sean Collier----------7-----------------------------63------------------------------------(-2)-------
45. Joshua Hill------------7----------------------------62-------------------------------------(-2)------
46. Jake Loberg----------6-----------------------------165-----------------------------------(+7)------
47. Jason Thomas------6-----------------------------312-----------------------------------(+21)-----
48. Austin Politelli-------4------------------------------36------------------------------------(-1)--------
49. Cole Martinez--------4------------------------------152----------------------------------(+8)------

The new top 20 would be:
1. Ryan Dungey
2. Mike Alessi
3. Andrew Short
4. Jacob Weimer
5. Broc Tickle
6. Josh Grant
7.Justin Brayton
8. Kyle Chisholm
9. Ben LaMay
10. Vince Friese
11. Michael Byrne
12. Derek Anderson
13. Tyla Rattray
14. Nico Izzi
15. Davi Millsaps
16. Kyle Regal
17. Jimmy Albertson
18. Austin Howell
19. Robert Kiniry
20. Kevin Rookstool

So, some things I saw through this process. This system tends to reward consistency in qualifying for the races, which can only benefit privateers. This is best demonstrated by Derek Anderson and Jason Thomas. Anderson DNQ for 1 round. Thomas DNQ for 2 rounds. All others they qualified, and as I noticed had a lot of motos end in the 21-25 range. May as well finished 40th with the old system. Contrastly, James Stewart DNQ for half of the rounds (12 motos). With the old system, he only scored points in 8 of the motos last year, enough to score him 11th in the championship. Seems to screw over the little guy making it to every race. More importantly, this new system had little effect on the top 10 or the champion for last year.

In conclusion: It definitely shakes things up. You see a lot of top guys losing points positions. I attribute that to DNFs finishing in the 35-40 range (guys like Millsaps, Stewart, Metcalfe, Hahn). It rewards for consistency. I don't know if that is good or bad. It would probably affect the racing and reward the slower guys just for qualifying each week (like a participation award). I don't know. Seems like a viable option that wouldn't affect things too bad (except they'd have to figure out how to award numbers differently). It'd be interesting to see what the negative points version of this would look like. I'm not doing it though. Thoughts?

Exactly.

They're telling you how to ride.
They're taking away the choice's a rider used to make.
In reality, as soon as the leaders have you in sight,
you have your hands tied.

Is that fair?
I mean, if your're running 30th, and you have to freeze up
for a third of the guys, why bother?

Unless you were scoring paying points at 35th that is.

Because punishing the riders by giving them negative numbers who are trying their best but can't crack the top 20 is just adding insult to injury.

I feel the best way to handle the points debacle is to perhaps do the following:

1st - 20th: Normal points but 20th ends up with 3 points
21st - 30th: 2 points
31st - 40th: 1 point
Rider can only score a point if they at least complete one full lap per moto. DNS or DNF before completing one lap means no points.

I didn't read any of this thread. I also don't think motivation for 20th-40th is as much a problem about earning points as it is about earning compensation. AKA $$$

But why not just score the overalls only?
Moto finishes determine overall, Second moto is tie-breaker. Works for most local racing.

1st: 50pts
2nd: 47pts
3rd: 45pts
.
and so on down to
.
38th: 3pts
39th: 2pts
40th: 1pt

Hell, I'd even be down for a 1 moto format WITH qualifying races. Seems to kill multiple birds...simplifies points, better TV time block, easier casual fan comprehension, adds qualifying racing back in, maybe allows time for exhibition races (125's!), gives privateers RACING track time and more exposure.

If I was in charge, I would threaten to start killing pets or family members of anyone finishing outside the top 20. That'll light a fire under those fuckers' asses.

So....why not just award points to 40th place as apposed to making the points system confusing for the common fan and potential sponsors?

This is a solution without a problem. The current system works just fine. The fact that it helps a contender not immediately fall out of the title race with a mechanical issue more than outweighs trying to encourage the guy in 37th to pass for 36th........

Uh huh. I can see that. Let us know when you reach the speed of light.

The only thing this thread proves is that every point system that can be conceived has some strengths and some flaws. Therefore you may as well stick with what you already have, as changing will bring no net benefit.

Nerd needs more/less medication... However, watching him get made to 'look a fool' by multiple people is amusing.