mx sports fines riders for track cutting

Zaugg
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5/29/2013 11:06am
Reagan....have you ever been to a riders meeting? (I'm guessing No)

Little advice...if you don't know the rules, don't come crying here on the forum displaying your ignorance for the whole world to see.

Boo-Hoo...the poor riders getting fined. They went to the riders meeting...they know what they're doing...they chose to break the rules. (I think James, Kroc, Alessi and the like are good for it.)

Your logic makes as much sense as telling a cop you didn't know the speed limit.

Now take a few moments, collect your thoughts, and thank the nice man for answering your question.
GuyB
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5/29/2013 11:08am
I think cutting the track and going off the track are completely different issues.
trip338
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5/29/2013 11:13am
Zaugg wrote:
Reagan....have you ever been to a riders meeting? (I'm guessing No) Little advice...if you don't know the rules, don't come crying here on the forum displaying...
Reagan....have you ever been to a riders meeting? (I'm guessing No)

Little advice...if you don't know the rules, don't come crying here on the forum displaying your ignorance for the whole world to see.

Boo-Hoo...the poor riders getting fined. They went to the riders meeting...they know what they're doing...they chose to break the rules. (I think James, Kroc, Alessi and the like are good for it.)

Your logic makes as much sense as telling a cop you didn't know the speed limit.

Now take a few moments, collect your thoughts, and thank the nice man for answering your question.
It appears the riders don't know the rules either, as DC said they will be having a meeting with the riders to discuss how it should work.
Bill_Carroll
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5/29/2013 11:20am
DC wrote:
While it's not really customary to post fines, I will be glad to do so here to give Reagan his/her satisfaction: HANGTOWN: Mike Alessi ($250), Ken...
While it's not really customary to post fines, I will be glad to do so here to give Reagan his/her satisfaction:

HANGTOWN: Mike Alessi ($250), Ken Roczen ($100), Blake Baggett ($100), and 30 warnings (no fine) for running outside the markers.

THUNDER VALLEY: James Stewart ($250), and 4 warnings (no fine) for running outside the markers.

That's $700, total. I was off by $200, which is $24,300 closer than the original poster implied. The money goes to the Asterisk Mobile Medical Unit.

There will be extra discussion at this week's riders meeting as well as added scrutiny by race officials, both in staying within the markers and also how to proceed when one goes off the track.

DC
MX Sports
I was wondering when JS was going to be brought up, I thought James was purposely running over all the markers just to make a point about RV Laughing but we all know it's just to find a smoother section of track.

I could see this getting out of hand if something isn't done about it, Riders taking parade lap taking an opportunity to spot a section he can get off the track and make time making it look inadvertent. Whistling

The Shop

GuyB
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5/29/2013 11:23am
trip338 wrote:
It appears the riders don't know the rules either, as DC said they will be having a meeting with the riders to discuss how it should...
It appears the riders don't know the rules either, as DC said they will be having a meeting with the riders to discuss how it should work.
It's an ongoing thing, and a frequent topic. I can remember hearing it over several years. No different than what happens with NASCAR when they're in a driver's meeting and they're talking about not going below the limit line on the track.

Racers are racers. If something looks like track and is near the track, they're going to try and use it as track.
flapper
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5/29/2013 11:39am
GuyB wrote:
Does that affect you?
reagan wrote:
guy just making a point stewart got fined$250 for passing barcia on the down hill at thundervalley and roczen and alessi at hangtown $100 how much...
guy

just making a point stewart got fined$250 for passing barcia on the down hill at thundervalley and roczen and alessi at hangtown $100 how much did they make for the better position ? was it worth it ? will it happen again? just trying to learn how this works thats all .
reagan wrote:
my other point is will a $100 fine matter if you make an extra $10,000 in bonus ? how will this keep them on the track...
my other point is will a $100 fine matter if you make an extra $10,000 in bonus ? how will this keep them on the track its a good risk to reward factor i think in those riders mind . that's the point i was trying to make .
Reagan are you on a high dose of Viagra,because the blood is obviously not reaching your brain?
Let it go!!!
GuyB
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5/29/2013 11:40am
flapper wrote:
Reagan are you on a high dose of Viagra,because the blood is obviously not reaching your brain?
Let it go!!!
That depends on whether reagan is male or female.
5/29/2013 11:40am
reagan wrote:
guy just making a point stewart got fined$250 for passing barcia on the down hill at thundervalley and roczen and alessi at hangtown $100 how much...
guy

just making a point stewart got fined$250 for passing barcia on the down hill at thundervalley and roczen and alessi at hangtown $100 how much did they make for the better position ? was it worth it ? will it happen again? just trying to learn how this works thats all .
GuyB wrote:
Yeah, and now I'm confused. First you're complaining that people get fined at all, and now I get the impression you'd be a lot happier if...
Yeah, and now I'm confused. First you're complaining that people get fined at all, and now I get the impression you'd be a lot happier if the fastest guys got fined more, because they make more, and need bigger incentives to not cut the track. Smile
reagan wrote:
guy i am trying to understand the hows and whys like why a difference in the fine for 250 and 450 riders ? why some are...
guy
i am trying to understand the hows and whys like why a difference in the fine for 250 and 450 riders ? why some are warned and others are fined? . i am not sure fining is the solution to the problem of riders going off track .
Laughing "You are trying to understand" Bullshit! You made up some huge number and started a thread to make it sound like MX sports was stealing from the riders and then you got your little keyboard fingers slapped by the people who do know and now you want to sound like you just want to know how the system works. There was nothing in your post about finding a "solution to a problem" and then you still claim "your sources" know better. Your imagination is NOT a source.
disbanded
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5/29/2013 11:42am
I still want to know Reagan's sources. You must be held accountable for your claims.

If you can't give your sources, GTFO!
flapper
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5/29/2013 11:42am
GuyB wrote:
That depends on whether reagan is male or female.
Doesn't that stuff work the same way on both? Haha
GuyB
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5/29/2013 11:47am
flapper wrote:
Doesn't that stuff work the same way on both? Haha
I wouldn't know.
yosmithy
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5/29/2013 11:53am
flapper wrote:
Doesn't that stuff work the same way on both? Haha
GuyB wrote:
I wouldn't know.
damnit, I was hoping to learn about how girl parts work
MOTO120
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5/29/2013 11:53am
STILL waiting on that "list" from Reagan..........hmmmmm
GuyB
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5/29/2013 11:57am
yosmithy wrote:
damnit, I was hoping to learn about how girl parts work
I'd suggest spending less time in front of the keyboard, and more time in the real world. Wink
newmann
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5/29/2013 12:13pm
List???

smeg
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5/29/2013 4:15pm
Hoping for a response from DC.................... Why was the rule okay for 50+ years but now it's not. I don't buy the whole "they are going soooo much faster" mentality. You and I were around to watch Hannah, Ward, ect... back in the day. Sorry but those guys were flying back then. Speed is a relative thing. If the argument is that the bikes are so much faster, conversely they also slow down much faster. Brakes have evolved just like engines.

Just curious as to what was the rationale in regards to the rule change. You must admit that going off the track in the 80's was a severe penalty and today it is a monetary fine which, in the scheme of thing is relatively inconsequential. How often in the 70's, 80's did running off the track change the outcome of a race? More than once that i can remember. Fast forward to today and not once has running off the track had any effect on whether a rider makes it on the podium.

Like I stated before this is purely my opinion and I am an "old schooler" but I firmly believe the racing surface is the racing surface. To compare MX to NASCAR and other auto racing is ludicrous due entirely to track design.
5/29/2013 5:32pm
Are they fining riders the deliberately cut the track, or riders that got off the track due to the heat of the moment?
BobbyM
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5/29/2013 7:02pm
500guy wrote:
The whole re-enter the track at the place where you went off thing? Maybe that was cool when bikes were air-cooled, had one inch wide pegs...
The whole re-enter the track at the place where you went off thing? Maybe that was cool when bikes were air-cooled, had one inch wide pegs, and had six inches of travel, but I'm not sure it makes sense now. (And yeah, I'm one of the guys that they blast past on their way to getting back on the track.)

Bullshit Guy-B. these guy's have better bikes it should be easier to get back near where they went off, it's a simple concept back in the day if you went off the track it basically ended your chance at a win.

There needs to be more than a fine for going off the track.

I could play gold on the tour if they didn't count my OB strokes
KennyT wrote:
That's true Jay. Old drum brakes were like dragging your tennis shoes to slow down Guy B will change his tune after he has a Dunlop...
That's true Jay. Old drum brakes were like dragging your tennis shoes to slow down

Guy B will change his tune after he has a Dunlop embedded in his ass. You be careful out there, those guys could give a rats ass about plowing over or through you if it means saving a second
Guyb will change his mind when somebody tells him to change his mind...got it?
Crush
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5/29/2013 7:12pm
GuyB wrote:
I think cutting the track and going off the track are completely different issues.
Thank God. Glad i'm not the only one
GuyB
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5/29/2013 7:23pm
BobbyM wrote:
Guyb will change his mind when somebody tells him to change his mind...got it?
Hey Bobby, really?
FreshTopEnd
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5/29/2013 7:26pm
GuyB wrote:
Does that affect you?
reagan wrote:
guy just making a point stewart got fined$250 for passing barcia on the down hill at thundervalley and roczen and alessi at hangtown $100 how much...
guy

just making a point stewart got fined$250 for passing barcia on the down hill at thundervalley and roczen and alessi at hangtown $100 how much did they make for the better position ? was it worth it ? will it happen again? just trying to learn how this works thats all .
reagan wrote:
my other point is will a $100 fine matter if you make an extra $10,000 in bonus ? how will this keep them on the track...
my other point is will a $100 fine matter if you make an extra $10,000 in bonus ? how will this keep them on the track its a good risk to reward factor i think in those riders mind . that's the point i was trying to make .
So you started this thread bitching that the riders are being fined, but what you've come around to is that the fines should be much more expensive so that they're sufficient to deter. Okay.
TerryK
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5/29/2013 7:37pm
The double standards in this thread are killing me. lol
smeg
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5/29/2013 7:42pm Edited Date/Time 5/29/2013 7:45pm
The track is the track...... If someone wrecks in front of you causing you to run off the track then you are off the track..... According to what you guys are saying then Stewart should have been able to cut the track to gain the time he lost when who-ba-jobber(cant think of riders name right now) wrecked in front of Stewart causing him to go down and lose time.

Its FN MX racing.... the chips fall where they may........... My point is "shit happens", you're a racer.. deal with it. It could be argued JS should have chosen a line that made it irrelevant what happened in front of him. It's a circular argument.

IMO if you go off the track, regardless of the circumstances then you re-enter where you left the track. Dungey, Barcia, Canard, ect rode the whole track, meaning the same distance..... RV didn't. It doesn't matter if a rider rides more or less distance. Said rider didn't ride the same distance as the other riders. That is the essence of my argument

Every racer should be required to ride the same distance ON THE TRACK.
dantheman
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5/29/2013 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 5/29/2013 8:00pm
meh... FAIL | nevemind Sad
smeg
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5/29/2013 7:58pm
Lets take a horse race as an example.... The race is on a closed course.... So a horse has a 17 length lead heading into the home stretch..... He jumps the outside rail, runs twice around the grandstands, jumps back on the track and wins by 3 lengths..... He ran faster than every other horse BUT he didnt run the same distance. Therefore he would be disqualified because it is a closed course race.

That is the essence of my argument..... MX is a closed course race. Everyone is, should be, required to ride the same distance on the closed course.
DC
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5/29/2013 7:58pm Edited Date/Time 5/29/2013 8:18pm
smeg, I understand what you're saying, but things have changed. Over the years the fences have moved a little further back from the track, so the hard barriers aren't there. We also got rid of pennants, which also were a good deterrent and self-penalizing if you ever got your wheel and sprockets wrapped up in there, or got your throat slashed like Darrell Shultz and Johnner Kight and some other guys I remember seeing get yanked off their bikes...

The yellow markers and corner barriers are not perfect, but they are much, much safer than wire fences, wooden stakes, water barriers (remember the MTEG races?), hay bales and other different things that used to line the whole track.

Supercross has evolved even more with Tuff Blocks, which are great for stadiums but the speeds outdoors and the length of tracks makes them problematic outdoors.

We all want everyone to stay on the exact track, but we also want it to be safe. it's a never-ending challenge in our kind of racing.

And while reagan may not understand it, I think there's some poetic justice giving the fine money to the support the medics who help riders that crash while trying to go faster and stay on the track. Racers who get fined are in turn supporting the guys who help them most in their time of need, the Asterisk Mobile Medics, not the referee or the promoter or anyone else.

DC
MX Sports
disbanded
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5/29/2013 8:03pm
smeg wrote:
Lets take a horse race as an example.... The race is on a [b]closed course[/b].... So a horse has a 17 length lead heading into the...
Lets take a horse race as an example.... The race is on a closed course.... So a horse has a 17 length lead heading into the home stretch..... He jumps the outside rail, runs twice around the grandstands, jumps back on the track and wins by 3 lengths..... He ran faster than every other horse BUT he didnt run the same distance. Therefore he would be disqualified because it is a closed course race.

That is the essence of my argument..... MX is a closed course race. Everyone is, should be, required to ride the same distance on the closed course.
So you want a rider to turn around and go backwards to get back to the area they went off the track?
smeg
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5/29/2013 8:11pm
DC... If you read my horse racing analogy then you can clearly see where I am coming from. Having said that I also understand that things evolve and I appreciate your response and give you kudos for responding with a cogent argument for the change in rules

Thanks again for the explanation and I for one want to thank you for doing what you can to try and advance the sport. Keep up the good(hard) work..... And one more thing...................


Now go make yourself useful and bring back the Blackwater.......... : )




(It's a joke everyone.... relax)
B-EVANS
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5/29/2013 8:15pm
It used to be about the race, now its about the show. Think of it that way and its easier to watch.
gt80rider
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5/29/2013 10:30pm
S.Loyer wrote:
National tracks are rough, high speeds, bumps, ruts, holes all cause for random mistakes such as crashing or going off the track. To be penalized for...
National tracks are rough, high speeds, bumps, ruts, holes all cause for random mistakes such as crashing or going off the track.
To be penalized for it after it already causes you to lose time is just stupid.

For the RV incident, if anyone believes that benefitted that you shouldn't of graduated elementary school.

As for re-entering the track, as long as it doesn't benefit you in place or lap-time then you should be good to go.
I graduated a whole lot more than elementary school and yes, RV benefited.

Why? Because he skipped an entire section, AGAIN. And... he created potential danger by going WFO alongside the track. You never know what's on the side of a track, whether it be a danger to himself like hitting an old tire or stake, or a danger to a flagger or other staffer, what he did was dangerous. He's gotten away with it thus far, he hasn't been penalized, so he's going to keep on doing it. Maybe nobody will ever get hurt, but then maybe someone will for no good reason whatsoever.

Skipping an entire section is bullshit. It saves the rider energy and when he didn't let off he didn't lose any time. If you go off the track you should pay the price by losing some time. It's a bad precedent to set for young riders, and a bad precedent to set for other racers. You wouldn't want every Joe Blow that goes off at your local track skipping an entire section and leaving it pinned so as to not lose any time.

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