Who knows what is up with EMX 125 class?

newmann
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newmann 4/15/2013 7:04pm
4/15/2013 7:04pm
But they sold 70,000 tickets for people to come WATCH the Atlanta SX.
Harry_Gray
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Harry_Gray 4/15/2013 7:08pm
4/15/2013 7:08pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2013 7:08pm
DC wrote:
And the bike looked and sounded so good I might go out and get one!

DC
MX Sports
If you're like most of us these days DC; spring for the 144 kit and heavier springs...
The Rock
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The Rock 4/15/2013 7:15pm
4/15/2013 7:15pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we...
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we had to run first moto qualifiers. Swan had something like 76 bikes signed up for 125 Novice and Whitney something like 68. It was before AMA sanctioning and the Novice advancement rule but even Intermediate had 25-35 guys. You can combine classes and give guys 10 laps instead of 5 and you still won't get full gates nowadays.
Thanks for this 411. By the time the industry wakes up I fear it will be too late unfortunately.

Newmann-70K spectators is great but as Jody Weisel eloquently puts it: No one goes to the circus and buys an elephant afterwards.
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 4/15/2013 7:21pm
4/15/2013 7:21pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we...
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we had to run first moto qualifiers. Swan had something like 76 bikes signed up for 125 Novice and Whitney something like 68. It was before AMA sanctioning and the Novice advancement rule but even Intermediate had 25-35 guys. You can combine classes and give guys 10 laps instead of 5 and you still won't get full gates nowadays.
Yet the one off two stroke races that are popping up are still drawing massive numbers. Hmmmmmmm

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SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 4/15/2013 7:22pm
4/15/2013 7:22pm
The Rock wrote:
Thanks for this 411. By the time the industry wakes up I fear it will be too late unfortunately. Newmann-70K spectators is great but as Jody...
Thanks for this 411. By the time the industry wakes up I fear it will be too late unfortunately.

Newmann-70K spectators is great but as Jody Weisel eloquently puts it: No one goes to the circus and buys an elephant afterwards.
Haha I had not read that elephant quote. Very funny. Thanks.
newmann
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newmann 4/15/2013 7:32pm
4/15/2013 7:32pm
The Rock wrote:
Thanks for this 411. By the time the industry wakes up I fear it will be too late unfortunately. Newmann-70K spectators is great but as Jody...
Thanks for this 411. By the time the industry wakes up I fear it will be too late unfortunately.

Newmann-70K spectators is great but as Jody Weisel eloquently puts it: No one goes to the circus and buys an elephant afterwards.
My point exactly, sir.
Race-World.com 4/16/2013 12:51am
4/16/2013 12:51am
The Rock wrote:
Thanks for this 411. By the time the industry wakes up I fear it will be too late unfortunately. Newmann-70K spectators is great but as Jody...
Thanks for this 411. By the time the industry wakes up I fear it will be too late unfortunately.

Newmann-70K spectators is great but as Jody Weisel eloquently puts it: No one goes to the circus and buys an elephant afterwards.
Hahahaha you have to hand it to Jody, he has some awesome one-liners!! I am using that one TODAY!!
The Rock
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The Rock 4/16/2013 1:39am
4/16/2013 1:39am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2013 1:42am
Race-World.com wrote:
Hahahaha you have to hand it to Jody, he has some awesome one-liners!! I am using that one TODAY!!
The guy has an extremely dry sense of humor. One time I walked over to thank him for the bike hook up but this particular day at REM circa 2009 I had my arm in a sling compliments of the meat wagon when I took a digger on a Husaberg 370 just a few turns from the finish in the second moto and Jody said "You're welcome. looks like it worked out pretty well for you." You had to be there but it was pretty funny even in my situation at the time.

When I got home I told my girlfriend and she said "I like that guy...I like that guy."

newmann-Sorry I missed your subtlety. Should have known better....my bad.

How cool would it be for KTM to break out a 125 version of the KTM Jr Challenge ay a few SX races? Be even cooler out doors but by the sounds of it there isn't any room for one at a National.
Thomas Jefferson 4/16/2013 6:11am
4/16/2013 6:11am
twosmoke30 wrote:
what the sport needs is a true pro feeder class, and the EMX fits it, most of the guys that come up have a couple options...
what the sport needs is a true pro feeder class, and the EMX fits it, most of the guys that come up have a couple options.

1. get onto the big teams (most spots of which are already taken or will be taken by young up and comers)
2. hope they can scrape enough money together to make it to all the rounds, and pray for their bike to hold together
3. Get decent sponsors and still pray the bike holds together for more than a couple races
4. move to 450's because all they really need is suspension and a laptop and you're pretty much set
5. not race in the big leagues, and get a real job to support their local pro effort
The FIM world championship doesn't work that way as far as "scraping up money to hit the rounds". The entry fees for all the rounds total something like 110,000 dollars and there is no prize money.

So if you aren't on a team, you aren't racing.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 4/16/2013 6:22am
4/16/2013 6:22am
Went back through the qualifying results instead of race results to get deeper into the bike breakdown. Out of 75 bikes in the qualifiers, there were only 2 TM's and 1 Husky. Anyone find that odd considering the race was part of a GP in Italy of all places? Husky threw more support to a one off race at Glen Helen than it did to a GP event in its home country.

No Kawasaki's. Just a bunch of KTM's and Yamaha's with a handful of Suzuki's thrown in.
jamma10
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jamma10 4/16/2013 6:24am
4/16/2013 6:24am
$110,000 entry fee?

More like $20,000 for 17 rounds.
Thomas Jefferson 4/16/2013 6:26am
4/16/2013 6:26am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2013 6:26am
jamma10 wrote:
$110,000 entry fee?

More like $20,000 for 17 rounds.
I could have sworn I read in one of those awesome MXGeoff threads that MXMatti makes from time to time that it was something like 100K for all the rounds.

NEGATIVE PEOPLE SAY NEGATIVE THINGS!!!!
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jamma10 4/16/2013 6:57am
4/16/2013 6:57am
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
I could have sworn I read in one of those awesome MXGeoff threads that MXMatti makes from time to time that it was something like 100K...
I could have sworn I read in one of those awesome MXGeoff threads that MXMatti makes from time to time that it was something like 100K for all the rounds.

NEGATIVE PEOPLE SAY NEGATIVE THINGS!!!!
Smile

Entry is about €1200 per round, so its actually more like $26,000 for 17 rounds, but still... a little way off 100K... (but probably still too much).
Thomas Jefferson 4/16/2013 7:04am
4/16/2013 7:04am
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
I could have sworn I read in one of those awesome MXGeoff threads that MXMatti makes from time to time that it was something like 100K...
I could have sworn I read in one of those awesome MXGeoff threads that MXMatti makes from time to time that it was something like 100K for all the rounds.

NEGATIVE PEOPLE SAY NEGATIVE THINGS!!!!
jamma10 wrote:
:) Entry is about €1200 per round, so its actually more like $26,000 for 17 rounds, but still... a little way off 100K... (but probably still...
Smile

Entry is about €1200 per round, so its actually more like $26,000 for 17 rounds, but still... a little way off 100K... (but probably still too much).
i found the thread. The guy who typed it was European and used commas instead of decimals (periods) and my eyes just skipped right over them.

But still...26K for no prize money in return? Just not really a privateer-friendly situation.
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 4/16/2013 9:04am
4/16/2013 9:04am
Double that here chasing a LL title.
Thomas Jefferson 4/16/2013 9:11am
4/16/2013 9:11am
Jakes Dad wrote:
Double that here chasing a LL title.
Not even close. 26K is just the entry fees, not the whole operation. LL races are 40-50 per class, 1 area qual, 1 regional qual, plus LL itself.

120-150 bucks entry fees if you race 1 class, maybe 200 if you want to count gate money.
The Rock
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The Rock 4/16/2013 3:27pm
4/16/2013 3:27pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we...
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we had to run first moto qualifiers. Swan had something like 76 bikes signed up for 125 Novice and Whitney something like 68. It was before AMA sanctioning and the Novice advancement rule but even Intermediate had 25-35 guys. You can combine classes and give guys 10 laps instead of 5 and you still won't get full gates nowadays.
Can anyone please share what is going on in their area regarding number of competitors growing or declining? Between people stopping due to tracks becoming too gnarly and/or injuries (definitely a connection there) and reluctance of newbies to start racing "Houston we have a problem here."

This isn't solely a two stroke/four stroke issue IMHO and the more people who can chime in the better. Thanks in advance for sharing.

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seth505
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seth505 4/16/2013 3:42pm
4/16/2013 3:42pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we...
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we had to run first moto qualifiers. Swan had something like 76 bikes signed up for 125 Novice and Whitney something like 68. It was before AMA sanctioning and the Novice advancement rule but even Intermediate had 25-35 guys. You can combine classes and give guys 10 laps instead of 5 and you still won't get full gates nowadays.
The Rock wrote:
Can anyone please share what is going on in their area regarding number of competitors growing or declining? Between people stopping due to tracks becoming too...
Can anyone please share what is going on in their area regarding number of competitors growing or declining? Between people stopping due to tracks becoming too gnarly and/or injuries (definitely a connection there) and reluctance of newbies to start racing "Houston we have a problem here."

This isn't solely a two stroke/four stroke issue IMHO and the more people who can chime in the better. Thanks in advance for sharing.
I was heavy into mtb racing in the early 2000s but I can say in the mid/late 90s I had the same experience as aFACEdismembered.

In 97 I rode 125 class and we had qualifiers (over 40 bikes for novice class). I raced out here in soCAL in 2013 (moto heaven) and we had combined classes and 10-15 people on the gate with those combined classes.
chump6784
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chump6784 4/16/2013 5:08pm
4/16/2013 5:08pm
GuyB wrote:
Michael, I'm talking about a very specific instance where people are spreading urban myths about two-strokes being widely available in other countries, but not here. It's...
Michael, I'm talking about a very specific instance where people are spreading urban myths about two-strokes being widely available in other countries, but not here. It's B.S.
Yep. For 2012 Suzuki had the rm 125 and 250 listed on their Australian website, for 2013 they are gone. Looks like that's it for us
early
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early 4/16/2013 5:37pm
4/16/2013 5:37pm
How is this for an idea?

1. 250 sx East/West combines to 1 class

2. 125 East/West classes added to the outdoors. You will score out of the class when you acquire a certain number of career points. Motos are 20min +2laps.
aFACEdismembered 4/16/2013 5:41pm
4/16/2013 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2013 5:43pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we...
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we had to run first moto qualifiers. Swan had something like 76 bikes signed up for 125 Novice and Whitney something like 68. It was before AMA sanctioning and the Novice advancement rule but even Intermediate had 25-35 guys. You can combine classes and give guys 10 laps instead of 5 and you still won't get full gates nowadays.
The Rock wrote:
Can anyone please share what is going on in their area regarding number of competitors growing or declining? Between people stopping due to tracks becoming too...
Can anyone please share what is going on in their area regarding number of competitors growing or declining? Between people stopping due to tracks becoming too gnarly and/or injuries (definitely a connection there) and reluctance of newbies to start racing "Houston we have a problem here."

This isn't solely a two stroke/four stroke issue IMHO and the more people who can chime in the better. Thanks in advance for sharing.
The whole "huge jump" thing is dying down around here. Why make something at the amateur level that hardly exists at the pro level? It just gets kids hurt. I've seen it to many times. One emulates another. If first place is doing it, common sense says that the only way to beat or run with first is to jump it as well and on down the conga line. There's a few tracks I go to that unless you're on a 450 or 250 2 stroke a jump can't be done or it's cased regularly by 250f's or 125's. Growing up racing around 02-04, there wasn't a track I went to that I couldn't jump everything on my 125 and there were still plenty of nice big jumps, just safer. I've got work on Monday man!
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 4/16/2013 5:42pm
4/16/2013 5:42pm
Jakes Dad wrote:
Double that here chasing a LL title.
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
Not even close. 26K is just the entry fees, not the whole operation. LL races are 40-50 per class, 1 area qual, 1 regional qual, plus...
Not even close. 26K is just the entry fees, not the whole operation. LL races are 40-50 per class, 1 area qual, 1 regional qual, plus LL itself.

120-150 bucks entry fees if you race 1 class, maybe 200 if you want to count gate money.
Didn't see just "entry fees". Two families we're close friends with spend around $50K a year, also has been stated on a couple of films following the race to LL's.

I just don't see it, what I do see are the families of 5-7 years ago who's kids made it to pro level. A couple are working barely above minimum wage after their short career's are over. One even writing bad checks to try and get by.
The Rock
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The Rock 4/16/2013 6:46pm
4/16/2013 6:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2013 6:47pm
Jakes Dad wrote:
Didn't see just "entry fees". Two families we're close friends with spend around $50K a year, also has been stated on a couple of films following...
Didn't see just "entry fees". Two families we're close friends with spend around $50K a year, also has been stated on a couple of films following the race to LL's.

I just don't see it, what I do see are the families of 5-7 years ago who's kids made it to pro level. A couple are working barely above minimum wage after their short career's are over. One even writing bad checks to try and get by.
You give good reasons on why the age to race professional MX should be 18 with a high school diploma required....and not a GED. Bad enough to collect injuries that will affect you all your life while chasing the dream but missing out on a well rounded education that results in your potential to earn a good income is downright tragic.

Feel a bit funny typing these words as I am as big of fan as they come but now that I am an old guy of 56 see things through a different set of lenses than I did when I was a teenager. MX is the greatest sport on earth but there is more to life than MX but when you're younger you don't see things that way.
Landonious217
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Landonious217 4/16/2013 6:54pm
4/16/2013 6:54pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we...
In 2003, 125 Novice Oklahoma/Texas Regional Pro Circuit Series I was lining up with full gates every weekend. At least 3 of the 5 rounds we had to run first moto qualifiers. Swan had something like 76 bikes signed up for 125 Novice and Whitney something like 68. It was before AMA sanctioning and the Novice advancement rule but even Intermediate had 25-35 guys. You can combine classes and give guys 10 laps instead of 5 and you still won't get full gates nowadays.
The Rock wrote:
Can anyone please share what is going on in their area regarding number of competitors growing or declining? Between people stopping due to tracks becoming too...
Can anyone please share what is going on in their area regarding number of competitors growing or declining? Between people stopping due to tracks becoming too gnarly and/or injuries (definitely a connection there) and reluctance of newbies to start racing "Houston we have a problem here."

This isn't solely a two stroke/four stroke issue IMHO and the more people who can chime in the better. Thanks in advance for sharing.
aFACEdismembered wrote:
The whole "huge jump" thing is dying down around here. Why make something at the amateur level that hardly exists at the pro level? It just...
The whole "huge jump" thing is dying down around here. Why make something at the amateur level that hardly exists at the pro level? It just gets kids hurt. I've seen it to many times. One emulates another. If first place is doing it, common sense says that the only way to beat or run with first is to jump it as well and on down the conga line. There's a few tracks I go to that unless you're on a 450 or 250 2 stroke a jump can't be done or it's cased regularly by 250f's or 125's. Growing up racing around 02-04, there wasn't a track I went to that I couldn't jump everything on my 125 and there were still plenty of nice big jumps, just safer. I've got work on Monday man!
The only track I can think of that has huge jumps is underground. I wish more tracks would emulate swan mx super forgiving jumps and fun as hell regardless of skill. If the novice class is the biggest class on race day then it just seems like good business to have a jump friendly track? Injured riders = less business right?
aFACEdismembered 4/16/2013 7:43pm
4/16/2013 7:43pm
Landonious217 wrote:
The only track I can think of that has huge jumps is underground. I wish more tracks would emulate swan mx super forgiving jumps and fun...
The only track I can think of that has huge jumps is underground. I wish more tracks would emulate swan mx super forgiving jumps and fun as hell regardless of skill. If the novice class is the biggest class on race day then it just seems like good business to have a jump friendly track? Injured riders = less business right?
Johnsonville has a Laroccos Leap style triple thats 3rd gear to double on a 250 2t, I35 has about a 100 foot table with a landing about 1 1/2 bike lengths long, Buffalo Creek has a giant uphill quad and while pretty good now river valley used to have some steep lipped big jumps close to a freestyle lip.

I feel like its came and went though. I've seen an upturn in vet riding so maybe that has something to do with it. Also, tracks around here are catching on and building multiple tracks for different skills and options. Village, buffalo, underground, johnsonville and oak hill all have more than 1 track now. There's probably some I missed.
Landonious217
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Landonious217 4/16/2013 7:54pm
4/16/2013 7:54pm
Landonious217 wrote:
The only track I can think of that has huge jumps is underground. I wish more tracks would emulate swan mx super forgiving jumps and fun...
The only track I can think of that has huge jumps is underground. I wish more tracks would emulate swan mx super forgiving jumps and fun as hell regardless of skill. If the novice class is the biggest class on race day then it just seems like good business to have a jump friendly track? Injured riders = less business right?
aFACEdismembered wrote:
Johnsonville has a Laroccos Leap style triple thats 3rd gear to double on a 250 2t, I35 has about a 100 foot table with a landing...
Johnsonville has a Laroccos Leap style triple thats 3rd gear to double on a 250 2t, I35 has about a 100 foot table with a landing about 1 1/2 bike lengths long, Buffalo Creek has a giant uphill quad and while pretty good now river valley used to have some steep lipped big jumps close to a freestyle lip.

I feel like its came and went though. I've seen an upturn in vet riding so maybe that has something to do with it. Also, tracks around here are catching on and building multiple tracks for different skills and options. Village, buffalo, underground, johnsonville and oak hill all have more than 1 track now. There's probably some I missed.
Ya I agree that is a good idea. I haven't rode religiously since 2011. Raced in a lot of series then, I have since learned the nocona, I35, bowie mx, east fork, pure mx, and Tmx have all close : (

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