SX point system needs to change

level
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level
Edited Date/Time 4/12/2013 9:04pm
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written off the championship. They are just too far out and don't stand a chance of winning. When it gets like that the racing suffers.

I think it's time for the AMA to seriously consider changing the points in both SX and MX. I believe it's as simple as just dropping your worse finish. That's it. Very simple. Would not punish the guy winning week in and week out but would not punish a DNF or bad finish so drastically to the point there out of the championship. I think this needs to be seriously considered for not just the riders but the fans.
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toroP
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toroP 4/10/2013 7:23pm
4/10/2013 7:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/10/2013 7:27pm
So if a rider is on the podium every race, he has to drop 20 points? If 3rd place is his worse finish. Blink
And a guy with a DNF is rewarded by only having to drop 1 or 2 points?
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 4/10/2013 7:31pm
4/10/2013 7:31pm
level wrote:
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written...
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written off the championship. They are just too far out and don't stand a chance of winning. When it gets like that the racing suffers.

I think it's time for the AMA to seriously consider changing the points in both SX and MX. I believe it's as simple as just dropping your worse finish. That's it. Very simple. Would not punish the guy winning week in and week out but would not punish a DNF or bad finish so drastically to the point there out of the championship. I think this needs to be seriously considered for not just the riders but the fans.
If you drop the worst finish, there's not much difference with the riders' standing right now......

This is a solution without a problem. ........
SEE ARE125 4/10/2013 7:42pm
4/10/2013 7:42pm Edited Date/Time 4/10/2013 7:50pm
So in just the top 3...
RV would have 5 points washed away from A1, his worst finish.
DM would have 11 points washed away from Daytona, his worst finish.
RD would have 13 points washed away from Phoenix, his worst finish.

RV would have 272
DM would have 245
RD would have 239

Currently RV has 277 and DM has 256. 21 point gap. With your theory, RV would have a 27 point lead instead of 21... And DM would have a 6 point lead over RD instead of the 4 he currently has. Seems your system rewards inconsistency, and actually has the opposite effect of what you were thinking. It would actually make the points difference greater than what it currently is.

EDIT: Here is the current points standings for reference:
RV 277
DM 256
RD 252
lostboy819 4/10/2013 7:57pm
4/10/2013 7:57pm
Points system is just fine.

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mulletman
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mulletman 4/10/2013 8:25pm
4/10/2013 8:25pm
I've never understood why they don't adopt the same points system that MotoGP uses. You know, actually make it worth it to always push for the win instead of this "strategy" bullcrap. I want to see the fastest guys on the planet go as fast as possible EVERY time, not "settle" for second because it's a long championship blah blah blah....


1st 25
2nd 20
3rd 16
TripleFive 4/10/2013 8:26pm
4/10/2013 8:26pm
Something needs to change.
JBods
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JBods 4/10/2013 8:29pm
4/10/2013 8:29pm
I agree, I think heat race wins should give more points I think just that would give better racing people would fight for the win.. Change something
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dehann 4/10/2013 8:29pm
4/10/2013 8:29pm
mulletman wrote:
I've never understood why they don't adopt the same points system that MotoGP uses. You know, actually make it worth it to always push for the...
I've never understood why they don't adopt the same points system that MotoGP uses. You know, actually make it worth it to always push for the win instead of this "strategy" bullcrap. I want to see the fastest guys on the planet go as fast as possible EVERY time, not "settle" for second because it's a long championship blah blah blah....


1st 25
2nd 20
3rd 16
Can you imagine the points leads that McGrath would have had with that points system?
peelout
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peelout 4/10/2013 8:33pm
4/10/2013 8:33pm
mulletman wrote:
I've never understood why they don't adopt the same points system that MotoGP uses. You know, actually make it worth it to always push for the...
I've never understood why they don't adopt the same points system that MotoGP uses. You know, actually make it worth it to always push for the win instead of this "strategy" bullcrap. I want to see the fastest guys on the planet go as fast as possible EVERY time, not "settle" for second because it's a long championship blah blah blah....


1st 25
2nd 20
3rd 16
dehann wrote:
Can you imagine the points leads that McGrath would have had with that points system?
Yep, and Reed would have beat RC in every SX championship they raced together.. BLOWN MIND
TDeath21
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TDeath21 4/10/2013 9:15pm
4/10/2013 9:15pm
The points are perfect just the way they are.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 4/10/2013 10:33pm
4/10/2013 10:33pm
points for holeshot ?
points for lap or laps led ?
or 1 point for leading , no matter if its 1 lap or 20

im all for heat points ,maybe 1st to 5th 5pts 1st , 4pts 2nd , 3pts 3rd 2pts 4th , 1pt 5th ?

or some how points 1 to 9th therefor every one qualifying strait from a heat gets points ?

i also think every one dropping there worst round sounds good..

id say it works now ,but should at least be looked at and changes at least considered !!
ando
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ando 4/11/2013 1:43am
4/11/2013 1:43am
level wrote:
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written...
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written off the championship. They are just too far out and don't stand a chance of winning. When it gets like that the racing suffers.

I think it's time for the AMA to seriously consider changing the points in both SX and MX. I believe it's as simple as just dropping your worse finish. That's it. Very simple. Would not punish the guy winning week in and week out but would not punish a DNF or bad finish so drastically to the point there out of the championship. I think this needs to be seriously considered for not just the riders but the fans.
Your argument is flawed. Dropping rounds does punish consistent riders, because they would be forced to drop a high scoring round, whereas a rider with one or more DNF's would drop zero points.

BTW I checked through the last ten years of SX results. Five of those years the title was decided by less than ten points, and three of those five by 4 points or less. Not a single one however where the result of the championship would have changed with the ability to drop a low scoring round.
-eagle-
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-eagle- 4/11/2013 7:23am
4/11/2013 7:23am
How is this topic not about NATIONAL POINTS in a REGIONAL SERIES?

@peelout: Remember; RC was letting chad win down the stretch in order to preserve the title. Sick
zippy895
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zippy895 4/11/2013 7:57am
4/11/2013 7:57am
level wrote:
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written...
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written off the championship. They are just too far out and don't stand a chance of winning. When it gets like that the racing suffers.

I think it's time for the AMA to seriously consider changing the points in both SX and MX. I believe it's as simple as just dropping your worse finish. That's it. Very simple. Would not punish the guy winning week in and week out but would not punish a DNF or bad finish so drastically to the point there out of the championship. I think this needs to be seriously considered for not just the riders but the fans.
this ainttt no amatuer racing anymoe.these are ppros.no dropped racing.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 4/11/2013 9:27am
4/11/2013 9:27am
level wrote:
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written...
I was thinking the other day watching the race and I noticed how some of the top guys like Stewart and Reed have pretty much written off the championship. They are just too far out and don't stand a chance of winning. When it gets like that the racing suffers.

I think it's time for the AMA to seriously consider changing the points in both SX and MX. I believe it's as simple as just dropping your worse finish. That's it. Very simple. Would not punish the guy winning week in and week out but would not punish a DNF or bad finish so drastically to the point there out of the championship. I think this needs to be seriously considered for not just the riders but the fans.
ando wrote:
Your argument is flawed. Dropping rounds does punish consistent riders, because they would be forced to drop a high scoring round, whereas a rider with one...
Your argument is flawed. Dropping rounds does punish consistent riders, because they would be forced to drop a high scoring round, whereas a rider with one or more DNF's would drop zero points.

BTW I checked through the last ten years of SX results. Five of those years the title was decided by less than ten points, and three of those five by 4 points or less. Not a single one however where the result of the championship would have changed with the ability to drop a low scoring round.
IMO The idea isnt necessarily to change the outcome of the championship , but more to keep it close and perhaps eliminate a dnf due to a mechanical or a crash , we have all heard u cant win a championship at the first round but u can lose 1 .. and to keep the guys hungry especially some top guys who may have a crash or dnf and not feel like they have a chance after that , unless your RC and can dnf a couple times and stay hungry , i seem to recall a few times when KW rode wuite different after falling behind , it seems that millsaps has before too and im sure others , not saying they shouldnt have tried there hardest anyway but , prob woulda stayed more motivated ...
also in lites sx if they have 1 dnf or chrash at round 1 they are pretty much out of championship contention!
zippy895
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zippy895 4/11/2013 9:35am
4/11/2013 9:35am
in the pro ranks now,no mulligans like in the minor s.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 4/11/2013 9:47am
4/11/2013 9:47am
i think its ok the way it is , just making suggestions for arguements sake Smile
that and it sucks if one of your fave riders chrashes or dnfs especially in early rounds .. but villo actually had a bad round 1 and look at him now, but seems like some guys arent as head strong as he and RD /RC
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GuyB 4/11/2013 12:09pm
4/11/2013 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2013 12:09pm
We should also hand out participation ribbons.

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GuyB 4/11/2013 12:16pm
4/11/2013 12:16pm
SEE ARE125 wrote:
So in just the top 3... RV would have 5 points washed away from A1, his worst finish. DM would have 11 points washed away from...
So in just the top 3...
RV would have 5 points washed away from A1, his worst finish.
DM would have 11 points washed away from Daytona, his worst finish.
RD would have 13 points washed away from Phoenix, his worst finish.

RV would have 272
DM would have 245
RD would have 239

Currently RV has 277 and DM has 256. 21 point gap. With your theory, RV would have a 27 point lead instead of 21... And DM would have a 6 point lead over RD instead of the 4 he currently has. Seems your system rewards inconsistency, and actually has the opposite effect of what you were thinking. It would actually make the points difference greater than what it currently is.

EDIT: Here is the current points standings for reference:
RV 277
DM 256
RD 252
At least someone has it figured out. Smile
Flatliner
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Flatliner 4/11/2013 12:18pm
4/11/2013 12:18pm
GuyB wrote:
We should also hand out participation ribbons.
This one made me chuckle.
zippy895
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zippy895 4/11/2013 12:30pm
4/11/2013 12:30pm
SEE ARE125 wrote:
So in just the top 3... RV would have 5 points washed away from A1, his worst finish. DM would have 11 points washed away from...
So in just the top 3...
RV would have 5 points washed away from A1, his worst finish.
DM would have 11 points washed away from Daytona, his worst finish.
RD would have 13 points washed away from Phoenix, his worst finish.

RV would have 272
DM would have 245
RD would have 239

Currently RV has 277 and DM has 256. 21 point gap. With your theory, RV would have a 27 point lead instead of 21... And DM would have a 6 point lead over RD instead of the 4 he currently has. Seems your system rewards inconsistency, and actually has the opposite effect of what you were thinking. It would actually make the points difference greater than what it currently is.

EDIT: Here is the current points standings for reference:
RV 277
DM 256
RD 252
GuyB wrote:
At least someone has it figured out. Smile
if they went to a "drop your worst race",the points system would have to be altered.meaning, 1 pt increments from 1st thru last.
71Fish
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71Fish 4/11/2013 12:55pm
4/11/2013 12:55pm
I really like NASCARs new points system (used for about 3 yrs now). One point for each position plus bonuses.
In SX 1st place - 20, 2nd place 19, 3rd place 18, etc. Then add 1 point for leading at least one lap to encourage lead changes. 1 point for leading the most laps. 2 points for winning.

A few scenarios: 1. The winner could potentially come away with 24 points if they lead all laps, 2nd place 19, 3rd 18, having led 0 laps.
1 - 24
2 - 19
3 - 18

2. The winner could only lead the last lap and would get 23 points (win + lead last lap) while 2nd place gets 21 assuming he was leading and had led the most laps until being passed. 3rd led one lap and gets 19 points.
1 - 23
2 - 21
3 - 19

3. Guy in first has led all laps and crashes on the last lap and ends up 4th. 17 points for finishing position, 1 point for lead "a" lap and 1 point for leading the most laps for a total of 19. Winner who was running 2nd gets 23 points. 2nd place finisher gets 19 (no laps led). 3rd led a lap and gets 19 points. 4th (who was leading before crashing) gets 19 (1 for leading a lap, 1 for lead the most laps).
1 - 23
2 - 19
3 - 19
4 - 19

You can see where a guy like MA800 would rack up a lot of bonus points for leading laps but slipping back.

No points system is completely perfect, but this system encourages fights for position because every point is more vital. And this is Vital MX, so it just makes sense.
Mx_Pain
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Mx_Pain 4/11/2013 1:49pm
4/11/2013 1:49pm
The fastest/best guy will win in the end regardless how u score.

U really think the racing would change if u could get bonus for leading laps, bonus for holeshot ?? I dont see anyone holding back their pace because of the lack of bonuspoint

I think all the guys in the main event gives 100% 100% of the 20 laps.

This isnt a video game.

Peace
Torco1
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Torco1 4/11/2013 2:01pm
4/11/2013 2:01pm
Maybe they could have a really good $$ bonus for 2-5 as well, that way there would still be a reason to fight for the next highest finishing spot in the series. I know individual teams already have bonuses like this written into contracts, but if the promoters put together some structured bonus program, it might motivate everyone else to race a little harder until the end.
LoudLove
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LoudLove 4/11/2013 2:19pm
4/11/2013 2:19pm
Dead engine starts.

There, I said it.
Just_another_expert 4/11/2013 3:13pm
4/11/2013 3:13pm
I think there should be bonus points for podiums in heat races. Maybe 3 points for 1st, 2 for 2nd and 1 for third. That would make those races have the excitement of the LCQs.
mx5471
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mx5471 4/11/2013 3:20pm
4/11/2013 3:20pm
The point system is fine. There is a "RACE" taking place. The guy that crosses the finish line first wins. Heats, are to determine who races. If you don't race , you don't get a score, and if you do race, now you are actually in the race. Then go for it. I don't care how many laps anyone leads, it's who wins. You guys need more to do. I don't know how you come up with this crap.
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TeamGreen 4/11/2013 3:29pm
4/11/2013 3:29pm
RV's current season is proof that the current system works.
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mrtrik 4/11/2013 3:57pm
4/11/2013 3:57pm
Waaaahh... RV is too dominant.
level
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level 4/11/2013 5:58pm
4/11/2013 5:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2013 6:00pm
GuyB wrote:
We should also hand out participation ribbons.
I knew it was only a matter of time for a snarky comment from Guyb-no surprise there.

I am not complaining by any means. I am just thinking a way to keep it more challenging throughout the series. Half-way through most riders just start looking forward to outdoors and they even say it over and over since they know the championship is out of reach. It hurts the racing. There' s no motivation to win. The risk isn't worth riding harder and risk getting hurt.

Is dropping the lowest score the answer? Maybe, maybe not. Is the point system fine? Might be the best already. Doesn't hurt to throw out some ideas though. I didn't calculate the points to see the outcome but dropping the lowest score just makes sense to me. I just hate to see a championship lost because of a DNF-take Ryan Dungey twice. He got screwed twice and it wasn't his fault.

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