"What if" 250f's could race the 450 class in AMA pro?

neysbo
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neysbo 3/22/2013 9:35am
3/22/2013 9:35am
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure...
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
neysbo wrote:
So you think a 2013 KTM 250 SX makes like 56 HP. MXA says right at 50. Pro Circuit 250F is around 47- 48
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A PC 250F doesn't make 48hp, not even on a happy dyno.
well a stock is 42 or 43 and you can bet PC gets another 5hp easily. still no where close to a 8hp difference
Thomas Jefferson 3/22/2013 9:37am
3/22/2013 9:37am
neysbo wrote:
So you think a 2013 KTM 250 SX makes like 56 HP. MXA says right at 50. Pro Circuit 250F is around 47- 48
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A PC 250F doesn't make 48hp, not even on a happy dyno.
neysbo wrote:
well a stock is 42 or 43 and you can bet PC gets another 5hp easily. still no where close to a 8hp difference
A stock KX250F makes 43hp?


Hahahahaha, man. WOW.
Thomas Jefferson 3/22/2013 9:46am
3/22/2013 9:46am
mototrader wrote:
what if 250F riders rode 250 2-strokes..they make about the same HP
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure...
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
Choppy wrote:
Wow, where do come up with this shit?

I can't wait to see how you got these numbers.
If you think a 250F is anywhere NEAR a 250 two-stroke, you've probably:

a. never ridden both of them back to back
b. ingested some sort of hallucinigenic drug

The horsepower difference is extrememly dramatic, and let's not forget the more than 20lb weight difference. 20lbs is a cinder block.

Don't let the latest buzz blind you. cc for cc, it's extremely clear who daddy is. you can admit it, no one is going to call you a conspiracy theorist or a taliban member.
neysbo
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neysbo 3/22/2013 11:03am
3/22/2013 11:03am
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A PC 250F doesn't make 48hp, not even on a happy dyno.
neysbo wrote:
well a stock is 42 or 43 and you can bet PC gets another 5hp easily. still no where close to a 8hp difference
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A stock KX250F makes 43hp?


Hahahahaha, man. WOW.
i said 42 or 43 , it is actually 42. for the 2013 and the stock KTM 250 F is 43. I know the Babbits motors are around 46.5 hp so you can bet Pro Circuit motors are close to 48.

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Choppy
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Choppy 3/22/2013 11:07am
3/22/2013 11:07am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2013 11:10am
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure...
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
Choppy wrote:
Wow, where do come up with this shit?

I can't wait to see how you got these numbers.
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
If you think a 250F is anywhere NEAR a 250 two-stroke, you've probably: a. never ridden both of them back to back b. ingested some sort...
If you think a 250F is anywhere NEAR a 250 two-stroke, you've probably:

a. never ridden both of them back to back
b. ingested some sort of hallucinigenic drug

The horsepower difference is extrememly dramatic, and let's not forget the more than 20lb weight difference. 20lbs is a cinder block.

Don't let the latest buzz blind you. cc for cc, it's extremely clear who daddy is. you can admit it, no one is going to call you a conspiracy theorist or a taliban member.
I own and ride two-strokes.

If what your claiming was even remotely true nobody would be calling for CC to CC racing because those 1989 250's would do just fine against the 450's.

I'd bet your the same guy that tried to pass off dyno charts that belonged to street bikes to prove a very similar statement under another name.
ridge
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ridge 3/22/2013 11:19am
3/22/2013 11:19am
Two stroke 250s would be fun to watch in the 250f class.

Like said originally, the 240f wouldn't really get many wins but the top ten would get really good to watch.

It's hard to compare this to the MXDN because the level of competition isn't really the same. I'd like to see the fastest 40 (in both classes) line up on one gate. We all know of guys who were heroes on the smaller bikes who never made the transition to big bikes very well. Maybe this way those guys could prolong their careers with solid results.
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slipdog 3/22/2013 1:35pm
3/22/2013 1:35pm
Choppy wrote:
I own and ride two-strokes. If what your claiming was even remotely true nobody would be calling for CC to CC racing because those 1989 250's...
I own and ride two-strokes.

If what your claiming was even remotely true nobody would be calling for CC to CC racing because those 1989 250's would do just fine against the 450's.

I'd bet your the same guy that tried to pass off dyno charts that belonged to street bikes to prove a very similar statement under another name.
Here's a couple pulls from a showroom stock '13 CRF 250. With standard correction factor the best we got was 32.5hp

Thomas Jefferson 3/22/2013 3:22pm
3/22/2013 3:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2013 3:24pm
Choppy wrote:
I own and ride two-strokes. If what your claiming was even remotely true nobody would be calling for CC to CC racing because those 1989 250's...
I own and ride two-strokes.

If what your claiming was even remotely true nobody would be calling for CC to CC racing because those 1989 250's would do just fine against the 450's.

I'd bet your the same guy that tried to pass off dyno charts that belonged to street bikes to prove a very similar statement under another name.
slipdog wrote:
Here's a couple pulls from a showroom stock '13 CRF 250. With standard correction factor the best we got was 32.5hp [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/03/22/image_278183.jpg[/img]
Here's a couple pulls from a showroom stock '13 CRF 250. With standard correction factor the best we got was 32.5hp

I was waiting for someone to post this, i couldn't remember which member actually dynos the 250Fs

This is how bullshit starts:

"Babbit's makes 46.5 so you can bet that PC makes 48"

Oh really? and how is that? Do the words Pro and Circuit add 1.5hp? Well, if it's Factory Kawasaki then maybe its 49. Shit, if Johnny Omara sat on it, it might be 50. Fucking ridiculous.

Not sure if you are aware of this, but PEOPLE build motors. Fancy logos don't build motors. Energy drinks do not build motors. Semi trucks do not build motors. 20,000 sq ft facilities do not build motors. So if the PERSON building motors at "Joe's small engine shop" happens to possess more technical aptitude than the person building motors at "Pro Circuit super duper motor shop" then guess who's makes more power?
1
cpj36
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cpj36 3/22/2013 4:05pm
3/22/2013 4:05pm
newmann wrote:
Villo this, gate pick that, blah blah blah. Roczen kicked ass at 1 mile of elevation, on the side of a f'n mountain in Colorado on...
Villo this, gate pick that, blah blah blah. Roczen kicked ass at 1 mile of elevation, on the side of a f'n mountain in Colorado on a RMZ250, MX"d"N 2010. Saw it with my own eyes. Long uphill start too! Guess that was a gate pick fluke too? Wink
That was a bit odd, some surprising shit, especially since AC was so concerned about the "400" at elevation. Seems to take enough out of the ama bikes that it bunches them all together, makes a good race, kinda like restrictor plate racing. I don't remember but I bet he hasn't looked that good on his ama 250 at the national there.

I was too drunk there to remember but as with RV, the little bikes are always faster going into corners or downhill, works out long as you get the best lines & don't have to try turn inside a 450 exiting turn or race one uphill out of a corner.
chump6784
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chump6784 3/22/2013 7:18pm
3/22/2013 7:18pm
Choppy wrote:
I own and ride two-strokes. If what your claiming was even remotely true nobody would be calling for CC to CC racing because those 1989 250's...
I own and ride two-strokes.

If what your claiming was even remotely true nobody would be calling for CC to CC racing because those 1989 250's would do just fine against the 450's.

I'd bet your the same guy that tried to pass off dyno charts that belonged to street bikes to prove a very similar statement under another name.
slipdog wrote:
Here's a couple pulls from a showroom stock '13 CRF 250. With standard correction factor the best we got was 32.5hp [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/03/22/image_278183.jpg[/img]
Here's a couple pulls from a showroom stock '13 CRF 250. With standard correction factor the best we got was 32.5hp

Thomas Jefferson wrote:
I was waiting for someone to post this, i couldn't remember which member actually dynos the 250Fs This is how bullshit starts: "Babbit's makes 46.5 so...
I was waiting for someone to post this, i couldn't remember which member actually dynos the 250Fs

This is how bullshit starts:

"Babbit's makes 46.5 so you can bet that PC makes 48"

Oh really? and how is that? Do the words Pro and Circuit add 1.5hp? Well, if it's Factory Kawasaki then maybe its 49. Shit, if Johnny Omara sat on it, it might be 50. Fucking ridiculous.

Not sure if you are aware of this, but PEOPLE build motors. Fancy logos don't build motors. Energy drinks do not build motors. Semi trucks do not build motors. 20,000 sq ft facilities do not build motors. So if the PERSON building motors at "Joe's small engine shop" happens to possess more technical aptitude than the person building motors at "Pro Circuit super duper motor shop" then guess who's makes more power?
Fact, every dyno reads different. Just because the dyno above shows a 250f making 32.5 hp doesn't mean that the dyno that MXA use is wrong, just reads different. They dyno'd the crf 250 at 35.63 hp. They then put a pipe , cams, hi comp piston vortex ignition and pulled out the back fire screen and got it to 39.83 hp, a 4.2 hp increase. With headwork and motor work plus better fuel there is more power to be had. If you only gained 2 hp from porting, shaving the rod and fuel then that is a total of 6 hp increase.

Here is the article [url=http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Honda/News/VIDEO-WHERE-TO-SPEND-YOUR-…]

On THEIR dyno the KX250f makes 42 hp, if the mods they made to the crf yield the same results on the kxf then that equals 48 hp on THEIR dyno.

Until every single bike is run on the same dyno on the same day then all this arguing is pointless
exsarg
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exsarg 3/22/2013 7:28pm
3/22/2013 7:28pm
mxa has the highest reading dyno in the world. i had my motor guy jet my mildly modded 07 yz450. about 40hp on his dyno. he raced supermoto and his completley done 04 crf 450 put out 50 on his dyno.
cpj36
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cpj36 3/22/2013 9:04pm
3/22/2013 9:04pm
If these numbers are possible & u can build a 250f within 10 HP of a 500cc 2 stk you're gonna lose that torque. There's no way you can have best of both worlds & torque is why the 2 stk is at a disadvantage.

A 48hp 250f vs 250 2 stk would be like a 250 2 stk in 450. A few guys might be able to do it
X-RACER
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X-RACER 3/22/2013 11:41pm
3/22/2013 11:41pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2013 11:44pm
There are people actually defending 4 strokes? Why, I don't get it. Unless your getting the bike and parts for free. They are less fun and more expensive !! At least there not as hard to start these days. Buy what you want.At least its not a quad,kinda the same though.
4stroke4DWIN
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4stroke4DWIN 3/22/2013 11:53pm
3/22/2013 11:53pm
X-RACER wrote:
There are people actually defending 4 strokes? Why, I don't get it. Unless your getting the bike and parts for free. They are [b]less fun and...
There are people actually defending 4 strokes? Why, I don't get it. Unless your getting the bike and parts for free. They are less fun and more expensive !! At least there not as hard to start these days. Buy what you want.At least its not a quad,kinda the same though.
You are high!!! Less fun? That's fuckin pretty stupid. They both are fun, actually most things with two wheels are fun.
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 3/22/2013 11:57pm
3/22/2013 11:57pm
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure...
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
Choppy wrote:
Wow, where do come up with this shit?

I can't wait to see how you got these numbers.
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
If you think a 250F is anywhere NEAR a 250 two-stroke, you've probably: a. never ridden both of them back to back b. ingested some sort...
If you think a 250F is anywhere NEAR a 250 two-stroke, you've probably:

a. never ridden both of them back to back
b. ingested some sort of hallucinigenic drug

The horsepower difference is extrememly dramatic, and let's not forget the more than 20lb weight difference. 20lbs is a cinder block.

Don't let the latest buzz blind you. cc for cc, it's extremely clear who daddy is. you can admit it, no one is going to call you a conspiracy theorist or a taliban member.
Think you need to watch some of the racing in Australia, 250F V 250 two stroke in both MX2 and MXD (Under19s) more down to rider and technique off the start, 250 two stroke maybe a slight advantage in the under 19s class where both 2T and 4strokes are closer to stock (Still not stock) but landing a 747 between them DREAM ON, Maybe a RC Helicopter!
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 3/23/2013 12:00am
3/23/2013 12:00am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2013 12:02am
And just for good measure, one of the top under 19s riders rode a KTM 250 two stroke all season with no holeshots as a privateer, picked up a team ride mid season due to his results and then on a Kawasaki 250F pulled his first holeshot in his first race on the four Banger

But this is a 250F V 450F thread, not 250 V 250

As for 250F V 450F on a consistent bases Superfinal has already ruined that idea Smile
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 3/23/2013 12:01am
3/23/2013 12:01am
yamadogyz
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yamadogyz 3/23/2013 7:05am
3/23/2013 7:05am


This guy is what happens

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bvm111
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bvm111 3/23/2013 10:13am
3/23/2013 10:13am
yeah then monkeys might fly out of my butt... why do you guys keep bringing this crap up??? Its about as constructive as the 2 vs 4 stroke repeated threads that add nothing to the conversation... let it go!!!???
mototrader
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mototrader 3/23/2013 3:50pm
3/23/2013 3:50pm
geicos crf250s are pushing close to 50 at the wheel..you guys are tards
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Outsider 3/23/2013 4:24pm
3/23/2013 4:24pm
X-RACER wrote:
There are people actually defending 4 strokes? Why, I don't get it. Unless your getting the bike and parts for free. They are [b]less fun and...
There are people actually defending 4 strokes? Why, I don't get it. Unless your getting the bike and parts for free. They are less fun and more expensive !! At least there not as hard to start these days. Buy what you want.At least its not a quad,kinda the same though.
Have you ridden a modern racing four stroke?
4stroke4DWIN
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4stroke4DWIN 3/23/2013 4:29pm
3/23/2013 4:29pm
X-RACER wrote:
There are people actually defending 4 strokes? Why, I don't get it. Unless your getting the bike and parts for free. They are [b]less fun and...
There are people actually defending 4 strokes? Why, I don't get it. Unless your getting the bike and parts for free. They are less fun and more expensive !! At least there not as hard to start these days. Buy what you want.At least its not a quad,kinda the same though.
Outsider wrote:
Have you ridden a modern racing four stroke?
This guy is in every 2 stroke thread just blabbering how badass smokers are. It's kinda weird really.

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