"What if" 250f's could race the 450 class in AMA pro?

ridge
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ridge
Edited Date/Time 3/23/2013 4:29pm
There are always some 250f guys that are faster than 450 guys. I don't think they'd be pushing for race wins very often, but they would sure as hell make 5th through 10th way more interesting.

I'd love to see Baggett race the outdoors on his 250f (against the 450s.)

Whatcha think?
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zehn
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zehn 3/21/2013 9:29pm
3/21/2013 9:29pm
Supercross? Maybe. Nationals? I doubt it
mototrader
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mototrader 3/21/2013 9:31pm
3/21/2013 9:31pm
what if 250F riders rode 250 2-strokes..they make about the same HP
zehn
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zehn 3/21/2013 9:32pm
3/21/2013 9:32pm
mototrader wrote:
what if 250F riders rode 250 2-strokes..they make about the same HP
It's not just about the power...
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 3/21/2013 9:43pm
3/21/2013 9:43pm
They would all get smoked off the start, and struggle to make up time with different techniques used in riding the two bikes.

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JB 19
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JB 19 3/21/2013 10:19pm
3/21/2013 10:19pm
SwapperMX wrote:
They would all get smoked off the start, and struggle to make up time with different techniques used in riding the two bikes.
You beat me to it.
MotoTones
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MotoTones 3/21/2013 10:24pm
3/21/2013 10:24pm
SwapperMX wrote:
They would all get smoked off the start, and struggle to make up time with different techniques used in riding the two bikes.
RV at the 07 Des Nations got a pretty good start against the 450s....
tiddlermx23 3/22/2013 4:38am
3/22/2013 4:38am
Would rather see 250t's line up with 250f's in ama pro but that's a whole other monster...
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Cigaro 3/22/2013 4:56am
3/22/2013 4:56am
SwapperMX wrote:
They would all get smoked off the start, and struggle to make up time with different techniques used in riding the two bikes.
````This
burnside
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burnside 3/22/2013 5:08am
3/22/2013 5:08am
DV made an interesting point on Pulp Radio.... he thought Tomac would have done better in the 450 class on his 250... His starts sucked on a 450 anyway. haha
newmann
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newmann 3/22/2013 5:13am
3/22/2013 5:13am
I thought they opened up the SX class for 250's a while back.
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DrSweden 3/22/2013 5:19am
3/22/2013 5:19am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2013 5:53am
burnside wrote:
DV made an interesting point on Pulp Radio.... he thought Tomac would have done better in the 450 class on his 250... His starts sucked on...
DV made an interesting point on Pulp Radio.... he thought Tomac would have done better in the 450 class on his 250... His starts sucked on a 450 anyway. haha
Sometimes I really wonder if the 450 class is needed. When Tomac will be in tune, will he actually be faster than he was in his prime on the 250f? Seeing these 250f do so good, one has to wonder if they have become previous 250s, and maybe 450s have become the pointless 500 class? Bring back 125s, make 250fs the premier class! Smile

Maybe only a very few people really master a 450, even at this level? its not that they have traction running on tarmac? Seems spinning is just a matter of more or less? maybe the rest have no real benefits other than this no need for expensive tuning, maximizing any feeble 250?
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Shawn142 3/22/2013 5:21am
3/22/2013 5:21am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2013 5:22am
SwapperMX wrote:
They would all get smoked off the start, and struggle to make up time with different techniques used in riding the two bikes.
MotoTones wrote:
RV at the 07 Des Nations got a pretty good start against the 450s....
Everyone brings this up without how it actually happened like RV was shot out of a magical cannon. The first turn had been made into a much more GP style setup with a short run down to a tight 180. As long as RV didn't get cut off right out of the gate or overcook the first turn he was going to come out with the holeshot period. The straight wasn't long enough for the 450s to make a real difference and both motos he was in the best position to brake early and hug in tight. You see this same tactic work in SX every week. The guy who gets to the first turn first rarely gets the holeshot because someone sneaks around the inside.
KICKERMAN360 3/22/2013 5:28am
3/22/2013 5:28am
Pretty sure I saw an entry list of several people who has entered the 450cc SX with a 250F. Might have been an error on the part of the AMA though. They weren't big names though, so maybe they were people just trying to make the show with the only bike they had.
Lone Wolf
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Lone Wolf 3/22/2013 5:29am
3/22/2013 5:29am
SwapperMX wrote:
They would all get smoked off the start, and struggle to make up time with different techniques used in riding the two bikes.
MotoTones wrote:
RV at the 07 Des Nations got a pretty good start against the 450s....
Shawn142 wrote:
Everyone brings this up without how it actually happened like RV was shot out of a magical cannon. The first turn had been made into a...
Everyone brings this up without how it actually happened like RV was shot out of a magical cannon. The first turn had been made into a much more GP style setup with a short run down to a tight 180. As long as RV didn't get cut off right out of the gate or overcook the first turn he was going to come out with the holeshot period. The straight wasn't long enough for the 450s to make a real difference and both motos he was in the best position to brake early and hug in tight. You see this same tactic work in SX every week. The guy who gets to the first turn first rarely gets the holeshot because someone sneaks around the inside.
You also have to remember that half of the field was on 250F's - not just RV. A lot of teams tend to give their first gate pick to the MX2 rider, so many of the 450's were somewhat disadvantaged by gate choice.
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 3/22/2013 5:31am
3/22/2013 5:31am
MotoTones wrote:
RV at the 07 Des Nations got a pretty good start against the 450s....
Shawn142 wrote:
Everyone brings this up without how it actually happened like RV was shot out of a magical cannon. The first turn had been made into a...
Everyone brings this up without how it actually happened like RV was shot out of a magical cannon. The first turn had been made into a much more GP style setup with a short run down to a tight 180. As long as RV didn't get cut off right out of the gate or overcook the first turn he was going to come out with the holeshot period. The straight wasn't long enough for the 450s to make a real difference and both motos he was in the best position to brake early and hug in tight. You see this same tactic work in SX every week. The guy who gets to the first turn first rarely gets the holeshot because someone sneaks around the inside.
Lone Wolf wrote:
You also have to remember that half of the field was on 250F's - not just RV. A lot of teams tend to give their first...
You also have to remember that half of the field was on 250F's - not just RV. A lot of teams tend to give their first gate pick to the MX2 rider, so many of the 450's were somewhat disadvantaged by gate choice.
Exactly right. Good clarification too. Villo had number 1 gate pick.
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 3/22/2013 5:36am
3/22/2013 5:36am
KICKERMAN360 wrote:
Pretty sure I saw an entry list of several people who has entered the 450cc SX with a 250F. Might have been an error on the...
Pretty sure I saw an entry list of several people who has entered the 450cc SX with a 250F. Might have been an error on the part of the AMA though. They weren't big names though, so maybe they were people just trying to make the show with the only bike they had.
Pretty sure they were mistakes on the AMA's part. They still had riders entered on 250 two strokes when they were obviously riding 450's up until a year or so ago.
Thomas Jefferson 3/22/2013 5:49am
3/22/2013 5:49am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2013 5:50am
mototrader wrote:
what if 250F riders rode 250 2-strokes..they make about the same HP
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
motox731tuner 3/22/2013 5:50am
3/22/2013 5:50am
KICKERMAN360 wrote:
Pretty sure I saw an entry list of several people who has entered the 450cc SX with a 250F. Might have been an error on the...
Pretty sure I saw an entry list of several people who has entered the 450cc SX with a 250F. Might have been an error on the part of the AMA though. They weren't big names though, so maybe they were people just trying to make the show with the only bike they had.
SwapperMX wrote:
Pretty sure they were mistakes on the AMA's part. They still had riders entered on 250 two strokes when they were obviously riding 450's up until...
Pretty sure they were mistakes on the AMA's part. They still had riders entered on 250 two strokes when they were obviously riding 450's up until a year or so ago.
it is legal to race 250f in 450 class.

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BWRAAP
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BWRAAP 3/22/2013 5:54am
3/22/2013 5:54am
Watch the superfinals of the GP series.. Extremely talented kid on a 250F needs to ride his heart out to come close to the top 3,, Maybe it will work, but only for 2 or 3 guys, on the globe.. Maybe it's more exciting when the 250F boys start 5 seconds earlier..
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 3/22/2013 5:55am
3/22/2013 5:55am
KICKERMAN360 wrote:
Pretty sure I saw an entry list of several people who has entered the 450cc SX with a 250F. Might have been an error on the...
Pretty sure I saw an entry list of several people who has entered the 450cc SX with a 250F. Might have been an error on the part of the AMA though. They weren't big names though, so maybe they were people just trying to make the show with the only bike they had.
SwapperMX wrote:
Pretty sure they were mistakes on the AMA's part. They still had riders entered on 250 two strokes when they were obviously riding 450's up until...
Pretty sure they were mistakes on the AMA's part. They still had riders entered on 250 two strokes when they were obviously riding 450's up until a year or so ago.
motox731tuner wrote:
it is legal to race 250f in 450 class.
Dude, never said it wasn't. It just never happened.
DrSweden
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DrSweden 3/22/2013 5:55am
3/22/2013 5:55am
And yeah, Roczen would have won Daytona if he was on the 450? The 350 hold him back?
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 3/22/2013 5:59am
3/22/2013 5:59am
I'd like to see it happen but the teams that do it are gonna need to have bigger budgets for maintenance if they do it every race. JGR is the one in my mind that should definiely do it; I think they'd see better results. But the heavily factory sponsored teams for sure won't let their riders do it despite what the fans might want to see. There's too much potential damage to the marketing of their product, which is what the whole series is about anyway.

If teams did this, could they run the higher end suspension equipment allowed by the 450 class? Might make the 250's even better than they already are.
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slipdog 3/22/2013 6:05am
3/22/2013 6:05am
DrSweden wrote:
And yeah, Roczen would have won Daytona if he was on the 450? The 350 hold him back?
That wasn't a 350... Wink
Mx4life320
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Mx4life320 3/22/2013 6:06am
3/22/2013 6:06am
What the DES NATIONS.. That's what it would be like.
neysbo
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neysbo 3/22/2013 6:58am
3/22/2013 6:58am
mototrader wrote:
what if 250F riders rode 250 2-strokes..they make about the same HP
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure...
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
So you think a 2013 KTM 250 SX makes like 56 HP. MXA says right at 50. Pro Circuit 250F is around 47- 48
newmann
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newmann 3/22/2013 7:05am
3/22/2013 7:05am
Villo this, gate pick that, blah blah blah. Roczen kicked ass at 1 mile of elevation, on the side of a f'n mountain in Colorado on a RMZ250, MX"d"N 2010. Saw it with my own eyes. Long uphill start too! Guess that was a gate pick fluke too? Wink
Thomas Jefferson 3/22/2013 7:24am
3/22/2013 7:24am
mototrader wrote:
what if 250F riders rode 250 2-strokes..they make about the same HP
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure...
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
neysbo wrote:
So you think a 2013 KTM 250 SX makes like 56 HP. MXA says right at 50. Pro Circuit 250F is around 47- 48
A PC 250F doesn't make 48hp, not even on a happy dyno.
Deetsmx
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Deetsmx 3/22/2013 7:30am
3/22/2013 7:30am
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A PC 250F doesn't make 48hp, not even on a happy dyno.
MXA has the ktm at 50 and the 250f ktm at 43 on the same dyno.
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Choppy 3/22/2013 7:39am
3/22/2013 7:39am
mototrader wrote:
what if 250F riders rode 250 2-strokes..they make about the same HP
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure...
A Pro Circuit 250F makes the same amount of power as a stock 1989 YZ250, and about 8 less than a stock 2013 KTM250SX. Not sure if you are aware how much of a difference 8hp is.

On a long start straight, you'd be able to land a 747 between the two of them.
Wow, where do come up with this shit?

I can't wait to see how you got these numbers.

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