02 rm85 stock smoking alot will not rev clean

proama 1
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proama 1
Edited Date/Time 3/19/2013 8:31am
I got this bike for my wife as a project so she could ride with me and my son , The bike is all stock it starts and idles great .It has 150lbs of compression. Blows alot of white smoke and sounds like the spark plug is fouling when its reved up . The carb is spotless all jets look like new reeds look great sealed good did the spray test and no engine change new spark plug new filter. I can retard or advance the timming and the bike still runs the same just will not run crisp. I did take the baffle out of it and no change .I took off the pipe itself and the bike runs like a champ but the pipe does not seem to be clogged???? replaced the cdi with a new one still runs like crap, I thought it might be the left crank case seal but do not seem to be loosing oil. mybe stator might be the prob? have not tested with a new one yet till i get some ideas. Could the power valve cause this???? have not looked at that yet. . Coil ground looked good.Tryed unhooking kill switch still nothing. Holding the thottle wide open just sounds awful bop bop bop bop where my sons kx85 runs nice and crisp and clean. Any helpful advise would be great from you professionals out there. thanks
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shiftmx_22 3/12/2013 11:28am
3/12/2013 11:28am
I would check the power valve and clean as necessary.
BAMX
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BAMX 3/12/2013 12:16pm
3/12/2013 12:16pm
Is it loosing coolant?
RACESTHILAIRE 3/12/2013 12:50pm
3/12/2013 12:50pm
I would be looking at the right crank seal, not the left.

Definately check power valve to make sure it is opening. Just remove the cover on side of the cylinder to check if it is opening. Won't explain white smokey exhaust but just another thing to check off the list.

Is your oil milky white when drained? If the water pump seal was leaking coolant into the oil, it could be thinning out and getting past the right side crankseal (right side sitting on bike)

Hope this helps
proama 1
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proama 1 3/12/2013 12:54pm
3/12/2013 12:54pm
BAMX wrote:
Is it loosing coolant?
no coolant loss. crank case vent tube not clogged.

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proama 1
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proama 1 3/12/2013 1:00pm
3/12/2013 1:00pm
RACESTHILAIRE wrote:
I would be looking at the right crank seal, not the left. Definately check power valve to make sure it is opening. Just remove the cover...
I would be looking at the right crank seal, not the left.

Definately check power valve to make sure it is opening. Just remove the cover on side of the cylinder to check if it is opening. Won't explain white smokey exhaust but just another thing to check off the list.

Is your oil milky white when drained? If the water pump seal was leaking coolant into the oil, it could be thinning out and getting past the right side crankseal (right side sitting on bike)

Hope this helps
Oil looks fresh and clean, the stator looks like new not a speck of anything no oil nothing from the right side. i will check to see if the power valve is opening this weekend. thanks
RACESTHILAIRE 3/12/2013 1:28pm
3/12/2013 1:28pm
Maybe your main jet is just too rich? What are you running for fuel, main jet, and oil ratio?
RACESTHILAIRE 3/12/2013 1:29pm
3/12/2013 1:29pm
I guess its hard to pinpoint without really hearing bike run
proama 1
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proama 1 3/12/2013 2:07pm
3/12/2013 2:07pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2013 2:10pm
RACESTHILAIRE wrote:
Maybe your main jet is just too rich? What are you running for fuel, main jet, and oil ratio?
The bike runs a stock main jet, ethonal free pump gas 87 oct , 32-1 premix, using kawasaki two cycle
proama 1
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proama 1 3/12/2013 2:11pm
3/12/2013 2:11pm
RACESTHILAIRE wrote:
I guess its hard to pinpoint without really hearing bike run
yeah, i know i wish i was your neighbor.
proama 1
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proama 1 3/12/2013 2:24pm
3/12/2013 2:24pm
I heard of another simular thread on here awhile back and it turned out to be the stator. i guess they said it was smoking because it was not firing all the time and when it did fire it was burning too much premix causing the smoke? might be my problem also? I just didn't want to buy a stater and it turn out to be something else.
mx5471
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mx5471 3/12/2013 5:25pm
3/12/2013 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2013 5:36pm
You may have solved your problem in your question. If it was better with the pipe off, it would seem to be an exhaust problem. I had 3 of these bikes. The power valves can get gummed up. They work on springs at the valve side. They need to be working properly, which means they need to be clean. White smoke usually means coolant leaking into the motor. But as you are diagnosing the problem, the only thing that changed anything, as you said, was with the exhaust. I'd suspect a problem there. We had a stator problem with one. It would cut out when it got hot. Suzuki replaced it for free, but they are hard to test. You pretty much have to buy a new one to see, and they won't take it back. Try a new spark plug connecter before any other electrical parts. Not an RM, but I bought a Honda 100cc bike that ran like shit cheap, all it turned out to be was carbon in the exhaust that broke free and clogged the pipe. Kids are still riding it 8 years later, and I haven't touched it. It's a strange problem, but follow up on the exhaust, as it's the only change that made it better. Good luck.
project racer 3/12/2013 6:16pm
3/12/2013 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2013 6:20pm
If it runs good with the pipe off, have the pipe hot tanked at the local auto machine shop, or do the MAP gas / Oxy acetelyne torch trick to it.

If coolant and transmission oil are full, and do not show being low after a bit of run time, the seals are probably OK.

Trans oil will also emit a white-ish color when burned through the combustion chamber.



Start with the easy , inexpensive stuff first. Clean the pipe internally as thoroughly as possible,along with the PV. If no results, do a coolant system pressure check and a leak down test on the engine. If it is sealed up, this eliminates any guessing on leakage.

These would be first steps before buying expensive electrics right away.
partialperson
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partialperson 3/13/2013 3:15am
3/13/2013 3:15am
Lean out needle, raise clip to top. If this helps, and you are getting black oil or soot at the tip of your exhaust eventually it will get worse. This is usually a sign that the right side crank seal is "starting" to go.
proama 1
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proama 1 3/14/2013 1:16pm
3/14/2013 1:16pm
mx5471 wrote:
You may have solved your problem in your question. If it was better with the pipe off, it would seem to be an exhaust problem. I...
You may have solved your problem in your question. If it was better with the pipe off, it would seem to be an exhaust problem. I had 3 of these bikes. The power valves can get gummed up. They work on springs at the valve side. They need to be working properly, which means they need to be clean. White smoke usually means coolant leaking into the motor. But as you are diagnosing the problem, the only thing that changed anything, as you said, was with the exhaust. I'd suspect a problem there. We had a stator problem with one. It would cut out when it got hot. Suzuki replaced it for free, but they are hard to test. You pretty much have to buy a new one to see, and they won't take it back. Try a new spark plug connecter before any other electrical parts. Not an RM, but I bought a Honda 100cc bike that ran like shit cheap, all it turned out to be was carbon in the exhaust that broke free and clogged the pipe. Kids are still riding it 8 years later, and I haven't touched it. It's a strange problem, but follow up on the exhaust, as it's the only change that made it better. Good luck.
i will clean the power valve real good friday after work will let you know how it turns out . and thanks for your help.
proama 1
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proama 1 3/14/2013 1:25pm
3/14/2013 1:25pm
project racer wrote:
If it runs good with the pipe off, have the pipe hot tanked at the local auto machine shop, or do the MAP gas / Oxy...
If it runs good with the pipe off, have the pipe hot tanked at the local auto machine shop, or do the MAP gas / Oxy acetelyne torch trick to it.

If coolant and transmission oil are full, and do not show being low after a bit of run time, the seals are probably OK.

Trans oil will also emit a white-ish color when burned through the combustion chamber.



Start with the easy , inexpensive stuff first. Clean the pipe internally as thoroughly as possible,along with the PV. If no results, do a coolant system pressure check and a leak down test on the engine. If it is sealed up, this eliminates any guessing on leakage.

These would be first steps before buying expensive electrics right away.
thanks i will do that and let ya know how it turns out. thanks for your help
proama 1
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proama 1 3/16/2013 8:10am
3/16/2013 8:10am
RACESTHILAIRE wrote:
I would be looking at the right crank seal, not the left. Definately check power valve to make sure it is opening. Just remove the cover...
I would be looking at the right crank seal, not the left.

Definately check power valve to make sure it is opening. Just remove the cover on side of the cylinder to check if it is opening. Won't explain white smokey exhaust but just another thing to check off the list.

Is your oil milky white when drained? If the water pump seal was leaking coolant into the oil, it could be thinning out and getting past the right side crankseal (right side sitting on bike)

Hope this helps
proama 1 wrote:
Oil looks fresh and clean, the stator looks like new not a speck of anything no oil nothing from the right side. i will check to...
Oil looks fresh and clean, the stator looks like new not a speck of anything no oil nothing from the right side. i will check to see if the power valve is opening this weekend. thanks
ok , i took off the power valve inspection cover and the plastic clip that connects the rod to the power vave was broken but i hooked it back up and it still runs like crap . is the power valve suppose to open fully? because mine opens just about half way but seems to be working properly and there was no signs of carbon build up little oily not too bad the exhaust looks clean from what i could see put a new plug in it and new cap right off the start it runs poorly just when you open the throttle to wide open other than that it idles great and you can rap the throttle it sounds good only when i hold it wide open it sounds bah,bah,bah bah bah its just not clean. its getting good fuel. i'm not sure how to pressure test the cases?
project racer 3/16/2013 5:57pm
3/16/2013 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2013 6:16pm
Back to the pipe issue, if it revs cleanly up to peak RPM without the pipe, again, decarbonize the main pipe. Have you checked the silencer packing, to make sure it is not saturated with oil ? Air filter clean and not over oiled? Pull the silencer, and run the bike. Try all of the easy , free, and inexpensive things first.

To pressure test the engine, you need a plug for the intake opening plumbed with a schrader valve, a T-fitting, a low pressure guage, some fuel line, and an exhaust port plug. You can make a cheap pressure tester by sourcing these bits from the hardware, local auto parts store. Or buy a cheapy from Harbor Freight. Google 2 stroke pressure testing for a better idea of things.

I went round and round on a small bore Suzuki engine recently until I pressure tested, and finallly tracked down an air leak on a gasket mating surface. Once I had air pressure in the sealed engine, a shot of soapy water instantly resulted in a stream of bubbles from the leaking surface. The thing would not even pop due to low compression. Once the leak was discovered and addressed, compression instantly jumped up, and the bike fired right up. Not saying you have a leak, but I chased my tail for a few days on that one before I tested.
proama 1
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proama 1 3/17/2013 7:39am
3/17/2013 7:39am
I tried running the bike with out the silencer and still run crappy i might look and see if my sons kx85 pipe will fit on the suzuki they look the same and see if that helps to eliminate the pipe, before i have it hot tanked, if that turns out a bust i will get a cheepy tester from harbor frieght ,.....Its hard to run the bike hard and check the plug with it running crappy but the plug is just a little wet when i look at it. the bike runs great if you don't twist the throttle all the way, you think i should try 40-1 mix ? is it possible that the throttle cable on the carb is adjusted wrong and opening more than it should or does it just hit a max point? I am going to try every thing i can to make this bike run good thanks for all your help! will keep you all posted.
utzracing
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utzracing 3/19/2013 8:31am
3/19/2013 8:31am
Here is my advice. Set jetting to stock. If it is not leaking coolant or sucking crankcase oil it sounds like a bad stator. Stator can be bad in two ways. 1.Will not start or hard to start and needs to be push started. 2. will start and idle but will not rev out properly. Try this advance the stator off of the factory setting almost to the max of the slots. If it runs better its the stator.

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