Is it completely safe to PowderCoat a steel frame?

Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD
Edited Date/Time 3/5/2013 12:40pm
Annealing?
Hardness?
Brittleness?
And some other ness's that I don't know what they mean.
Is any of this effected by PowderCoating?

I know up close and personal that powdercoating aluminum is a horrible idea because I did it to a streetbike cast aluminum front wheel and on the very next ride it snapped and sent me over the handlebars at 90mph. (to be fair I was doing a nose wheelie at the time)

I was just about to have my 13 KTM frame powdercoated but they run these things up to 450 degrees in the ovens and I figure that is likely to alter some of the metal's properties. Can anyone educate me a bit on this topic?

Thanks.
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TerryK
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TerryK 3/1/2013 6:51am
3/1/2013 6:51am
The temperature that the part is baked at is too low to effect steel.
TripleFive 3/1/2013 6:58am
3/1/2013 6:58am
Is it effect steel or affect steel?

Not being a nazi, just confused.
526
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526 3/1/2013 6:58am
3/1/2013 6:58am
KTM doesn't powder coat their frames ? WTF
Bret31
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Bret31 3/1/2013 6:59am
3/1/2013 6:59am
I do them all the time just did 2013 ktm 250 and 450

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Top End
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Top End 3/1/2013 7:01am
3/1/2013 7:01am Edited Date/Time 3/1/2013 7:03am
Most professional powder coaters know what they are doing. I have never had a problem with the coating itself. I have had a problem with the hot chemical paint stripping some companies use. I have seen many aluminum mountain bike frames and swingarms come back nicely powder coated. Once assembled and ridden they turn to soft pieces of clay. A hardness test of a raw stripped frame confirmed this. Make sure whoever you use will plug holes and bearing surfaces if you don't want to ream and or re-tap everything.
activeMX
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activeMX 3/1/2013 7:27am
3/1/2013 7:27am
Doesn't affect the frame at all.

Even my 2012 KTM Factory Edition had a painted, not powder coated frame. That quickly changed.
peelout
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peelout 3/1/2013 7:33am
3/1/2013 7:33am
i powder-coated my 04' yz250 frame and it had zero problems.

had quite a few done actually. just make sure that when you have it sandblasted you check the welds for cracks.

also, as TopEnd said above, plug ALL the holes like a Jenna Haze film
ob
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ob 3/1/2013 7:41am
3/1/2013 7:41am
All Ktm's are powder coated from the factory.
newmann
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newmann 3/1/2013 7:42am
3/1/2013 7:42am
I do believe my 2013 KTM150 frame was powdercoated from the factory. Sandblasting would not remove it. Far cry from the Japanese steel frames that had not even had the welds cleaned prior to the piss coat of color being applied. First ride and wash job usually left most of the welds bare metal. Our 08 KTM frame still looks perfect. Quality stuff.
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ob 3/1/2013 7:56am
3/1/2013 7:56am
Bret31 wrote:
I do them all the time just did 2013 ktm 250 and 450[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/03/01/image_812679.jpg[/img]
I do them all the time just did 2013 ktm 250 and 450
How's it going Bret. You gona come ride woodland this weekend?
xnationalwrench 3/1/2013 8:15am
3/1/2013 8:15am Edited Date/Time 3/1/2013 1:14pm
When I worked for Carter Brothers Go-Karts all the frames were steel and Powder Coated. Some things to check for is if you havea tapped bolt hole you will probably need to chase the threads before assembly and any electrical ground would need to make sure your going to have a positive ground.
seth505
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seth505 3/1/2013 8:30am
3/1/2013 8:30am
Suns_PSD wrote:
Annealing? Hardness? Brittleness? And some other ness's that I don't know what they mean. Is any of this effected by PowderCoating? I know up close and...
Annealing?
Hardness?
Brittleness?
And some other ness's that I don't know what they mean.
Is any of this effected by PowderCoating?

I know up close and personal that powdercoating aluminum is a horrible idea because I did it to a streetbike cast aluminum front wheel and on the very next ride it snapped and sent me over the handlebars at 90mph. (to be fair I was doing a nose wheelie at the time)

I was just about to have my 13 KTM frame powdercoated but they run these things up to 450 degrees in the ovens and I figure that is likely to alter some of the metal's properties. Can anyone educate me a bit on this topic?

Thanks.
It is completely safe for both Steel and Alum. Assuming, the work is done by someone who knows what they are doing. The powder can cure at 350-400 degrees F like people said which won't have negative affects.
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 3/1/2013 8:41am
3/1/2013 8:41am
Thanks guys. Off to the Powdercoaters then!
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 3/1/2013 8:49am
3/1/2013 8:49am
2 more questions.

1) Is it necessary to remove the aluminum coolant T from the frame? My Powder Coater said that he can just tape it up no problem but not sure if there is any other problem I hadn't considered.

2) Does powder coating add weight to the parts? The PC guy said he would need between 1-3# of color to do the frame. So does that mean my frame could be as much as 3# heavier?!
RCN4HIM
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RCN4HIM 3/1/2013 9:37am
3/1/2013 9:37am
I talked to two powder coaters yesterday and they both quoted $250-300 for a RM 125 Frame... seemed a little steep to me?
peelout
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peelout 3/1/2013 9:43am
3/1/2013 9:43am Edited Date/Time 3/1/2013 9:44am
RCN4HIM wrote:
I talked to two powder coaters yesterday and they both quoted $250-300 for a RM 125 Frame... seemed a little steep to me?
yeah that seems steep to me as well.

i had my 250 frame sandblasted by one company and powder-coat by another, the total was around 300.

there are a few major trailer manufacturing facilities around Ogden though, so maybe that helps to keep the other guys honest?

shop around maybe
codyc24
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codyc24 3/1/2013 9:48am
3/1/2013 9:48am
If your wheel snapped like that, it was not the powdercoats fault or the powder coating process. That wheel was destined to break, I imagine from coming down from wheelies a little too hard. I did powder coating for a while and never once had an issue. When I was riding street bikes I did a bunch of my friends wheels, levers, rear sets, swingarms, frames. Cause if powdercoat caused your wheel to break, explain how a powdercoated wheel on a truck does not just snap? Especially with all 4 done. Basically like everyone said, cover your holes and it will last for a long time except the area around your boots will rub off fairly quick. Did on my last dirtbike I powdercoated.
seth505
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seth505 3/1/2013 10:20am
3/1/2013 10:20am
RCN4HIM wrote:
I talked to two powder coaters yesterday and they both quoted $250-300 for a RM 125 Frame... seemed a little steep to me?
Very! I had my rm125 done out here (CA) for $90. That included prep and blasting the old silver off. Back in MA, I had a swing arm and 2 hubs done for like 75-100.

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TerryK
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TerryK 3/1/2013 10:52am
3/1/2013 10:52am
TripleFive wrote:
Is it effect steel or affect steel?

Not being a nazi, just confused.
If you are being a grammar Nazi I'm totally fine with it lol, I'm one of the worst sort myself! In this case however, I think I used the right word. Tongue
overthebars39 3/1/2013 10:56am
3/1/2013 10:56am
Mine was sand blasted, treated against rust and powdercoated orange for 60euro
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 3/1/2013 11:24am
3/1/2013 11:24am
I was quoted $225.

I guess I should look around a bit.
ob
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ob 3/1/2013 11:31am
3/1/2013 11:31am
I paid $200 up here in oregon. That included stripping. Came out perfect. Dont forget to ask the guy to go light on the inside of all motor mounts etc. Or else you will be sanding that stuff down to fit your motor.
motokiwi 3/1/2013 12:08pm
3/1/2013 12:08pm
Sometimes you cant see cracks occur in the steel frame because the power coat is so thick.. Especially on RM's around the footpeg mounts..
Ghost of Jabroni 3/1/2013 12:49pm
3/1/2013 12:49pm
One thing Ive always wondered about is the additional welds the race teams do to their aluminium framed bikes.

Are aluminium frames heat treated?

I would think so. And if they are, the moment you go weld on them you mess things up dont you?
Erick
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Erick 3/1/2013 1:50pm
3/1/2013 1:50pm
Aluminum frames are heat treated. If you heat an aluminum frame to a temperature at around 200 to 300 degrees Celcius the effects of heat treatment will be reduced (the material recovers to its original, soft, stress free state) depending on the alloy. Generally 6065 and 7075 aluminum is used. Therefore strength is reduced and material is softened comprimising the whole frame. (source http://www.mlevel3.com/BCIT/heat%20treat.htm)

Steel is more capable of handling these temperatures. However some recovery mechanisms will occur at temperatures of around 400 degrees Celcius. KTM frames are generally made from 25CrMo4 steel (source: www.ktm.com).

My advice would be to ask what temperature the powder will be cured, If the temperature is at around 200 to 300 degrees Celcius it wouldn't be a problem for steel. If the temperature is higher (300+) I would look elsewhere.

If you need more in depth info about material properties I can help you.
MX Dad #27 3/1/2013 3:09pm
3/1/2013 3:09pm
Make sure when you powder coat the frame, that you cover the VIN number. The powder coat will make it hard to impossible to read the number.
GHR
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GHR 3/1/2013 3:14pm
3/1/2013 3:14pm
The best finish possible is to Powder Coat it, then let Weston Peick pee on it, then have him breathe on it directly to harden the pee, and it will be able to withstand a Nuclear holocaust.
harescrambled 3/1/2013 3:32pm
3/1/2013 3:32pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2013 3:33pm
Erick wrote:
Aluminum frames are heat treated. If you heat an aluminum frame to a temperature at around 200 to 300 degrees Celcius the effects of heat treatment...
Aluminum frames are heat treated. If you heat an aluminum frame to a temperature at around 200 to 300 degrees Celcius the effects of heat treatment will be reduced (the material recovers to its original, soft, stress free state) depending on the alloy. Generally 6065 and 7075 aluminum is used. Therefore strength is reduced and material is softened comprimising the whole frame. (source http://www.mlevel3.com/BCIT/heat%20treat.htm)

Steel is more capable of handling these temperatures. However some recovery mechanisms will occur at temperatures of around 400 degrees Celcius. KTM frames are generally made from 25CrMo4 steel (source: www.ktm.com).

My advice would be to ask what temperature the powder will be cured, If the temperature is at around 200 to 300 degrees Celcius it wouldn't be a problem for steel. If the temperature is higher (300+) I would look elsewhere.

If you need more in depth info about material properties I can help you.
Erick, powder coating is typically done at 205C (400F) maximum temp. preheat to weld high CrMo materials is typically 400-600F (205-315C)
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Falcon 3/1/2013 3:51pm
3/1/2013 3:51pm
TripleFive wrote:
Is it effect steel or affect steel?

Not being a nazi, just confused.
TerryK wrote:
If you are being a grammar Nazi I'm totally fine with it lol, I'm one of the worst sort myself! In this case however, I think...
If you are being a grammar Nazi I'm totally fine with it lol, I'm one of the worst sort myself! In this case however, I think I used the right word. Tongue
Affect is a verb, doing something. Effect is a noun, a thing. I.E.: You suffer the effects of an injury. Injuries affect people in different ways.

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