forced from B to A, by AMA

Truckdriver
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Edited Date/Time 12/30/2012 5:03pm
Anybody else been forced to move from B to A before they were ready? The rider I've been helping this year, who is only 16, is being moved up from B to A by AMA. We only really starting hitting AMA races this year. Had several wins and top 3 finishes, but we are just getting ready to head for Texas Winter Series and I really don't feel he is ready for A class, both mentally and financially. That's a big leap. Anybody have success getting AMA to put him back with a protest? Have any good tips or arguments to use that might help me out?
Oh, his RPV was listed as 16.29 for 2012.
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GrapeApe
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12/24/2012 7:57am
Congrats to the kid! Welcome to the A class.
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 8:02am
NO NO NO NO.
We are not ready for it. period.
Cole should be a top 5 rider every stop this winter. He needs to run thru the B class this year, qualify for LL and finish top 5 there. Then I can see a move up the ladder.
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 8:05am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2012 8:08am
I was looking at his results page and sometimes the score him with more points for a 3rd over a win, same class. Some 250B wins are at 18pts, some at 20 pts, and some 3rd place finishes were at 18pts.


Number of Riders
Position 5-14 15-24 25+
1 18 25 30
2 16 20 25
3 12 18 21
4 9 16 18
5 6 14 16
6 5 12 15
7 4 11 14
8 3 10 13
9 2 9 12
10 1 8 11
11 7 10
12 6 9
13 5 8
14 4 7
15 3 6
16 2 5
17 1 4
18 3
19 2
20
This is the AMA points breakdown, how come some tracks don't follow it????
kardy
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12/24/2012 8:06am
Doesn't the points paid also have to do with the number of entries for the class?

The Shop

TerryK
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12/24/2012 8:09am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2012 8:12am
Considering the ridiculous amount of sand bagging that goes on in AMA amateur racing I'm surprised the AMA moves anyone up. Was he moved up by a local AMA official?

Points should be paid as per AMAs point schedule. If individual tracks change it, it causes all kinds of trouble. Not sure why they would change it anyway, it's must easier to follow the guide lines.
APLMAN99
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12/24/2012 8:10am
Anybody else been forced to move from B to A before they were ready? The rider I've been helping this year, who is only 16, is...
Anybody else been forced to move from B to A before they were ready? The rider I've been helping this year, who is only 16, is being moved up from B to A by AMA. We only really starting hitting AMA races this year. Had several wins and top 3 finishes, but we are just getting ready to head for Texas Winter Series and I really don't feel he is ready for A class, both mentally and financially. That's a big leap. Anybody have success getting AMA to put him back with a protest? Have any good tips or arguments to use that might help me out?
Oh, his RPV was listed as 16.29 for 2012.
If you're consistently winning or on the box in the B class, it probably is time to move up....

Is he being forced up by a point system that's applied to everyone?
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 8:10am
Yea, it did not copy so well, but if you look it shows amount of riders, then kinda follow down and you can see the amount of points for each place according to the number of participants.
jleews6
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12/24/2012 8:11am
If he is all ready winning B class then the kid must be talented so if for any reason he cant move back down just work on building his confidence. I think that in most cases the only difference between the top B kids and the A class is confidence and consistency.
I know how you feel though because my son is in B and has only raced 3 races in B and we dont want to move up yet. I would like him to be able to race the top B class guys before throwing him in with the big dogs.
Good luck!
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 8:12am
Anybody else been forced to move from B to A before they were ready? The rider I've been helping this year, who is only 16, is...
Anybody else been forced to move from B to A before they were ready? The rider I've been helping this year, who is only 16, is being moved up from B to A by AMA. We only really starting hitting AMA races this year. Had several wins and top 3 finishes, but we are just getting ready to head for Texas Winter Series and I really don't feel he is ready for A class, both mentally and financially. That's a big leap. Anybody have success getting AMA to put him back with a protest? Have any good tips or arguments to use that might help me out?
Oh, his RPV was listed as 16.29 for 2012.
APLMAN99 wrote:
If you're consistently winning or on the box in the B class, it probably is time to move up.... Is he being forced up by a...
If you're consistently winning or on the box in the B class, it probably is time to move up....

Is he being forced up by a point system that's applied to everyone?
I'm not so sure about the point system, I'm gonna guess all AMA riders are pointed, I am questioning the consistency from track to track.
chase187
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12/24/2012 8:13am
If you were worried about racing the "A" class, why did you run him in any "B" events to begin with? He should have been running in Schoolboy if your plans were to run the nationals in "B" for 2013. Unfortunately a protest would most likely be denied in this situation, since he meets both the points and age criteria to be bumped to "A".
jleews6
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12/24/2012 8:14am
It gooes by the number of riders. You will get more points for a 5 with 30 other riders then you will a second with 8 riders
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 8:18am
jleews6 wrote:
If he is all ready winning B class then the kid must be talented so if for any reason he cant move back down just work...
If he is all ready winning B class then the kid must be talented so if for any reason he cant move back down just work on building his confidence. I think that in most cases the only difference between the top B kids and the A class is confidence and consistency.
I know how you feel though because my son is in B and has only raced 3 races in B and we dont want to move up yet. I would like him to be able to race the top B class guys before throwing him in with the big dogs.
Good luck!
Bingo! That's just what I want him to do. We have not had a chance to race against the fast "B" kids yet. That was the purpose of hitting the Texas Winter Series, those races bring some fast kids out, and I want to see him compete against the creme of the crop before we move up. It would suck just because he's the fast kid on the track here, and we have a very small B class here, then get stuck banging bars with Webb and others who have had the chance to race with others of his skill level.
TerryK
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12/24/2012 8:31am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2012 8:32am
Ah, you are racing Pro/Am events. Different points schedule then. If your rider is racing Pro/Am and doing well in B, it's no surprise he got bumped up.

Take it as a challenge and an opportunity. If you dwell on the fact that he's not ready for the A class, he will struggle with his confidence. Look at it as a positive and he'll shine! Racing with faster riders make you faster. Many riders who sandbag never get any faster because they are never chasing anyone faster.
crusher773
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Coweta, OK US
12/24/2012 8:40am
Well its about time they actually bump someone up its usually the other way around. Just wait until +30 then they'll let him come back down I'm sure. So instead of bumping up and getting faster you want to stay down another year or 2 and sandbag. Its guys like you that are causing issues across the board.
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 8:45am
crusher773 wrote:
Well its about time they actually bump someone up its usually the other way around. Just wait until +30 then they'll let him come back down...
Well its about time they actually bump someone up its usually the other way around. Just wait until +30 then they'll let him come back down I'm sure. So instead of bumping up and getting faster you want to stay down another year or 2 and sandbag. Its guys like you that are causing issues across the board.
No sand bagging, just want him to have a chance to compete against the fast crowd. I want him to have a chance to grow with group he belongs with. I'm trying my best not to knock any of the B riders in our area, but its a thin crowd. Hell most of our A riders would have a struggle to race against the faster B and C riders at the bigger events. I just want him to have a chance to race against the same caliber riders that he is.
sc961
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12/24/2012 8:50am
Just get a hold the AMA and send him them detail.

Riders under 16 can't be "forced" up to the A class. If he's 16 you may be able to get something accomplished between your local district and the AMA.

The AMA advancement system is starting work well, and find the riders that do a lot of traveling with good results. In the past not everyone sent results into the AMA. Now the network is becoming more consistent.

If you don't want your rider moving up too soon, you need to know the rules and where to go... It's getting harder to fly in under the radar than it use to be.
TerryK
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12/24/2012 8:53am
crusher773 wrote:
Well its about time they actually bump someone up its usually the other way around. Just wait until +30 then they'll let him come back down...
Well its about time they actually bump someone up its usually the other way around. Just wait until +30 then they'll let him come back down I'm sure. So instead of bumping up and getting faster you want to stay down another year or 2 and sandbag. Its guys like you that are causing issues across the board.
Did you even read the original post? Pretty idiotic thing to say considering you know nothing about this kid. It's guys like you that are causing issues on this board.
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 8:58am
TerryK wrote:
Considering the ridiculous amount of sand bagging that goes on in AMA amateur racing I'm surprised the AMA moves anyone up. Was he moved up by...
Considering the ridiculous amount of sand bagging that goes on in AMA amateur racing I'm surprised the AMA moves anyone up. Was he moved up by a local AMA official?

Points should be paid as per AMAs point schedule. If individual tracks change it, it causes all kinds of trouble. Not sure why they would change it anyway, it's must easier to follow the guide lines.
Letter came from AMA . So I'm guessing its the big boys doing this. Like I sent to crusher773, we are not looking for a free ride, but I would like for him to have a shot at some glory in the B class before we move to A. Looks like there is no decision til March if we protest, so I guess we can still do the the Winter series as B and hit the Spring and Oak Hill Nationals as a B rider. Guess we should have stayed out of B last year, but we needed to try it out.
It's a tough game.
12/24/2012 8:58am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2012 8:59am
chase187 wrote:
If you were worried about racing the "A" class, why did you run him in any "B" events to begin with? He should have been running...
If you were worried about racing the "A" class, why did you run him in any "B" events to begin with? He should have been running in Schoolboy if your plans were to run the nationals in "B" for 2013. Unfortunately a protest would most likely be denied in this situation, since he meets both the points and age criteria to be bumped to "A".
Why not race schoolboy/collegeboy classes then move up now?
TDeath21
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12/24/2012 9:09am
How long has he been in the B Class? What are his results there?
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 9:10am
chase187 wrote:
If you were worried about racing the "A" class, why did you run him in any "B" events to begin with? He should have been running...
If you were worried about racing the "A" class, why did you run him in any "B" events to begin with? He should have been running in Schoolboy if your plans were to run the nationals in "B" for 2013. Unfortunately a protest would most likely be denied in this situation, since he meets both the points and age criteria to be bumped to "A".
Why not race schoolboy/collegeboy classes then move up now?
we did do some 14-24 non point races, and some were mixed with A riders, and not all of the tracks did school boy so it was tough to try to race with riders equal to your speed when there is no class of them. This slow economy has really limited the amount of riders at the races to compete against in our area. That was the reason to head south. And I know the B class is way larger at the Millville track than it is at Cedar Rapids and other local Iowa races, yet he scores more points there for a 3rd than a 2nd at Millville. Gonna go back thru results and double check class size with points given and see if it the same as the rule book.
Truckdriver
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12/24/2012 9:14am
TDeath21 wrote:
How long has he been in the B Class? What are his results there?
2012 participation points by class
ARENA CROSS
Class Points Races
Youth Advancement (12-16) 18 1
250 B 18 1
MOTOCROSS
Class Points Races
Open B 86 5
Youth Advancement (12-16) 50 6
250 B 96 6
Non-advancement points class - Open/Amateur/Youth 0 3
2012 RPV by class
Class Points Races RPV
250 B 114 7 16.29
aminkman
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12/24/2012 10:18am
Hard lesson learned. If you want to race AMA B Class at the national level, then you can't race it at the local level.
APLMAN99
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12/24/2012 10:49am
The real issue?

"but I would like for him to have a shot at some glory in the B class before we move to A."

I think a lot of folks think they shouldn't be moved up unless they are going to win races at the next step right away. That's how the top B class riders end up being faster than most of the A field....
mmcmx
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12/24/2012 11:09am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The real issue? "but I would like for him to have a shot at some glory in the B class before we move to A." I...
The real issue?

"but I would like for him to have a shot at some glory in the B class before we move to A."

I think a lot of folks think they shouldn't be moved up unless they are going to win races at the next step right away. That's how the top B class riders end up being faster than most of the A field....
Don't know why you put it between " since he never said that.
MR. X
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12/24/2012 11:22am
Is everybody this surgical on how they pick their competition ? The reason i ask is because i don't have any experience beyond the sucking stage of racing dirtbikes , no career in it for me.
pete24
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12/24/2012 11:37am
jeeezus christ when i made expert they came out with champane, we WANTED to make expert, godammit that kid was told he is expert then he is expert, you should be proud and not looking for a way to beat up on some more poor stiffs,the only class that counts is the pro class your close now suck it up or quit
Husqerdo
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12/24/2012 11:51am
we did do some 14-24 non point races, and some were mixed with A riders, and not all of the tracks did school boy so it...
we did do some 14-24 non point races, and some were mixed with A riders, and not all of the tracks did school boy so it was tough to try to race with riders equal to your speed when there is no class of them. This slow economy has really limited the amount of riders at the races to compete against in our area. That was the reason to head south. And I know the B class is way larger at the Millville track than it is at Cedar Rapids and other local Iowa races, yet he scores more points there for a 3rd than a 2nd at Millville. Gonna go back thru results and double check class size with points given and see if it the same as the rule book.
I'm a bit confused by your statement " yet he scores more points there for a 3rd than a 2nd at Millville ". At Millville a 2nd will earn you 25 points (the gate will be > 25 riders). How many riders were in the Iowa races? With a RPV of 16.29 and 114.7 points the 16 year old averaged between 2nd and 5th depending on gate size, that is pretty darn good and would most likely put him in the upper half of the A class at those tracks the following year. Can I ask what place he finished at Millville as compared to his Iowa races?
APLMAN99
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12/24/2012 12:20pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The real issue? "but I would like for him to have a shot at some glory in the B class before we move to A." I...
The real issue?

"but I would like for him to have a shot at some glory in the B class before we move to A."

I think a lot of folks think they shouldn't be moved up unless they are going to win races at the next step right away. That's how the top B class riders end up being faster than most of the A field....
mmcmx wrote:
Don't know why you put it between " since he never said that.
Yes, he did.....

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