Agents - what are they good for?

dbch
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 10:17am
Getting in between parents and their child, who they have raised, trained and gotten to where they are today.

Filling the kid's head with all kind of distractions (perks) that take them away from their normal way of training. i.e, putting them up in big suites, etc. and telling them they are the best thing since sliced bread. Telling them they can afford the big house, the big car, etc. now so why not go for it! Again, separating them from their parents and support system that have gotten them to where they are today.

This is a parent of a "pro" 's opinion to all parents of up- and -coming "stars" in the sport - you know what your child is capable of. If he is as good as you think he is - why do you need an agent to tell sponsors about him? TAKE CONTROL! Go to the sponsors yourelf and take control - I guarantee you that if an agent or anyone else gets between you and your child when he gets his first contract, it will not end up the way that you think it will. You're child will be taken away from you, and all the hard work that you, as a family, has put in to get your child to where he is, will be lost.

I know what I am talking about - I'm not saying that all agents out there are bad, but let's face it, they're there for one reason - a paycheck! If your child signs with him, he gets paid. Where is the paycheck to you for all the blood, sweat and tears that went into getting your child to where he is today. Not to mention, the sacrifice his brothers and sisters made along the way to see to it that he gets THE RIDE that will make him a forturne.

An example...where was Lawrence's agent when all hell broke loose regarding his last esacapade. I would think that getting banned by the AMA would have warranted some kind of response. Nothing from Sepkovic!!!!

What about Josh Hill - if there was any rider out there that I would have NEVER thought would have gotten into the trouble that he was into at Freestone it was Josh. A wonderful kid and a wonderful family! Where was Button or Astphan speaking out on his behalf?

Back in the day, a rider's results spoke for what he would produce for a sponsor. Sponsors need to look at the up-and-coming athletes and see where they come from - I guarantee you that they didn't come from an agent, or a big suite in a hotel or a limo to the banquet - they come from hard wordking parents that gave their blood, sweat and tears so see their child succeed.

I'll stop here, because I know you all will start bashing on me, and to tell you the truth, I really can't take it tonight. Call me a "puss" or whatever - I don't care. I'm just trying to tell you all that these young riders are being lead down the wrong path for the sake of a $.





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pistol
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Fantasy
7/29/2008 11:00pm
puss
Xtreme1
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7/29/2008 11:03pm
I think you made some good points myself. Sooooo, which one screwed with you?Evil
dbch
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7/29/2008 11:06pm
You know I can't names because of the liability, but just want you to know I know what I'm talking about. Yes, there are some good ones out there, but for the most part, they are all out for themselves and know that if the rider they are working with takes a fall , that there are a lot of new ones coming along to take their place. Again, it's all about the money - not the rider.,
G Force
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7/29/2008 11:10pm
You think Agents are responsible for a child's behaviour? A parent still has to be a parent where required.

I am far from being an "insider", but would like to assume an agent is there to protect their rider from signing something that restricts there freedom, and advising the parents along the way.

I assume when a rider is 21, things are different.

Sounds like you dealt with a shyster.

my $0.02.

The Shop

Friday
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7/29/2008 11:13pm
My Agents get 10%.Kinda sucks when I do all the work AND get many of my jobs on my own.Oh,well.Part of the business.Dizzy
dbch
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7/29/2008 11:21pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:49pm
Yes, you're right. If the rider is 21 or older, he should be old enough to be able to understand what is going on. I'm talking about the riders that the agents latch on to when they are 17 or a little older, just coming out of Loretta Lynn's.

I don't think you understand the point I'm trying to make. Why do parents turn over their children to the agent in hopes that they will be able to get them the big bucks? Have some confidence in your child's abilities, and approach the sponsors yourself. I guarantee you the sponsor's will respect you, and your child will be the better for it. If you're worried about the wording of a contract, take it to an attorney and have him look it over of I'll be happy to give my opinion/suggestions for nothing! Also, talk to other parents of today's "stars" and they will be happy to give you their opinion on what you shoud do.

pistol
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7/29/2008 11:29pm
Do you work for the factories?
dbch
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7/29/2008 11:36pm
No, I don't work directly for the factories - I'm a parent who has experienced first hand what I am talking about. Take a look at all theses young riders coming up - the ones that stay with their family and continue training the way they did when they were amateurs are well ahead of the riders that have signed with agents, moved away from their parents (support system), started doing their own "thing". I guarantee you, the riders that are separated from their families are the ones that are getting into trouble.



7/30/2008 12:04am
Doesn't your kid have to have your consent if he's under 18 to sign with an agent?

Then the balls still in your court for decisions if you want to go with an agent or which agent... or tackle it alone.
dbch
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7/30/2008 12:12am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2008 12:14am
You're absolutely right - before 18, it's the parent's reponsiblity to guide their kids. That's the point I'm trying to get across in this post - I'm trying to appeal to parents to take a really good look at what these agents are offering - Every parent loves to hear the good stuff - "You're kid's the next Mc Grath" -"Your're kid's worth so much money because of his potential". Do they really think that an agent is going to be the difference in whether or not their rider makes it? I just want parents to step back, take a good look at their child, and if his results are what sponsors are looking for - go get the contracts yourself - you don't need an agent!
7/30/2008 4:51am
Many parents don't have enough experience negotiating contracts, just like in stick and ball sports. An agent can get you a better deal and limit things that parents don't thing about at the time. Agents aren't parents just a spokeman for the racer.
7/30/2008 6:09am
A friend of mine manages a team and we were having a conversation about managers, in both our opinions riders dont need them. There is a rider who would gladly ride for 1.3 but his manager wants double that and is mad at his rider for talking to the team. Another rider lost his ride because of his agent.

Agents want to push the limits and get the most for thier riders, but sometimes the money is just not there.

RJ did the best job of managing himself. He told the teams what he would ride for and there was no negotiating. He had his accountant look at the contracts and pay him an hourly fee for it and he would advise him on it. His accountant also looked over his money and got a percentage of what he made RJ on investments.

Today there either to lazy or not smart enough to do it on their own, but there is no need for a manager in MX. If your making huge cash then you need a money manager but not a manager.
Lightning78
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7/30/2008 7:54am
I think these agents are cleaning house in a market that previously had little to no agents because there wasn't as much money involved as there is now. DBCH I completely agree with your stance on agents all that BS they fill the riders heads with can lead to narcicism where the riders spend more time negotiating contracts on "who" they are (according to their agents) than the results they should be posting. This behavior is concurrent in any sport or industry that an agent can be involved, not to say they are all bad but they are nothing more than glorified salesmen piggybacking "the talent"

Hey UpTite, you live around the downtown HB area? I see your van driving around at least once a week by my house
flarider
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7/30/2008 8:11am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:50pm
UpTiTe wrote:
A friend of mine manages a team and we were having a conversation about managers, in both our opinions riders dont need them. There is a...
A friend of mine manages a team and we were having a conversation about managers, in both our opinions riders dont need them. There is a rider who would gladly ride for 1.3 but his manager wants double that and is mad at his rider for talking to the team. Another rider lost his ride because of his agent.

Agents want to push the limits and get the most for thier riders, but sometimes the money is just not there.

RJ did the best job of managing himself. He told the teams what he would ride for and there was no negotiating. He had his accountant look at the contracts and pay him an hourly fee for it and he would advise him on it. His accountant also looked over his money and got a percentage of what he made RJ on investments.

Today there either to lazy or not smart enough to do it on their own, but there is no need for a manager in MX. If your making huge cash then you need a money manager but not a manager.
This is very much correct, as is the original poster.


Only the most elite riders like JS, RC, CR, KW need an agent, because there is a lot of different product endorsement and media issues to deal with. Any rider outside of the top 3 or 5 really has no need for an agent.

I have seen more riders lose deals because the agent was demanding more than the company was willing to pay. Something is better than nothing, right? This is not a long term venture, it is very short term, take what you can get. Agents need to milk the cash, not for the rider but for themselves. If a rider think he should make XXX for doing something, the agent has to demand XXXXX in order to cover their commission...many teams and companies can't afford that...and the agent is making them pay for something they don't need, the agent.

I have spent time and money on many kids as they move up the ranks, and pretty much the moment an agent gets involved, we get dumped like a load of laundry, because we don't have the big dollar budget. Agents don't get paid on product only deals, but only cash deals.

I know of a few team managers who HATE agents and know that the second one is involved, their budget in that rider went up an easy 10%...right off the top. So if that team is on a fixed budget, either the rider makes less money or doesn't ride at all, because the agent's gotta get paid. Yes, riders do lose rides because if agent's fees and teams budgets don't mesh.


and lastly, while an agent is not a baby sitter, part of their job is PR. Notice how later in RC's career someone pumped out PR from his camp when necessary? Right, that's an agent's job. It is not the agent's job to run away and hide when their client is in deep shit. Ask Drew Rosenhaus. If Jason would've been his client, he'd have been the guy bailing him out, driving him to a hotel, on the phone with media and typing a PR/apology to fans all before the sun even came up the next morning...THAT is what an agent does, not run away, hide and hope it goes away when the shit gets sticky.

MX agents (Many, not all) are little more than networking people and salespeople, selling their product to their friends. They have no legal skills, no formal training, no PR skills and are little more than former industry people who just use the fact that they're in the business and have a name as some qualifier to be an agent.

Truth be told, there are few (few) true "agents" in this industry


and boy am I gonna catch shit for this
Larry
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7/30/2008 8:13am
" know what I am talking about - I'm not saying that all agents out there are bad, but let's face it, they're there for one reason - a paycheck! If your child signs with him, he gets paid. Where is the paycheck to you for all the blood, sweat and tears that went into getting your child to where he is today. Not to mention, the sacrifice his brothers and sisters made along the way to see to it that he gets THE RIDE that will make him a forturne. "

This paragraph says a lot.
Adam43
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7/30/2008 8:18am
It does seem fairly ridiculous that most riders even bother with an agent. What to they really bring to the table for a rider who isn't at the very top of the sport?

What is a typical commission percentage for an agent in this industry? 10%? 20%?
newmann
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7/30/2008 9:47am
dbch wrote:
Getting in between parents and their child, who they have raised, trained and gotten to where they are today. Filling the kid's head with all kind...
Getting in between parents and their child, who they have raised, trained and gotten to where they are today.

Filling the kid's head with all kind of distractions (perks) that take them away from their normal way of training. i.e, putting them up in big suites, etc. and telling them they are the best thing since sliced bread. Telling them they can afford the big house, the big car, etc. now so why not go for it! Again, separating them from their parents and support system that have gotten them to where they are today.

This is a parent of a "pro" 's opinion to all parents of up- and -coming "stars" in the sport - you know what your child is capable of. If he is as good as you think he is - why do you need an agent to tell sponsors about him? TAKE CONTROL! Go to the sponsors yourelf and take control - I guarantee you that if an agent or anyone else gets between you and your child when he gets his first contract, it will not end up the way that you think it will. You're child will be taken away from you, and all the hard work that you, as a family, has put in to get your child to where he is, will be lost.

I know what I am talking about - I'm not saying that all agents out there are bad, but let's face it, they're there for one reason - a paycheck! If your child signs with him, he gets paid. Where is the paycheck to you for all the blood, sweat and tears that went into getting your child to where he is today. Not to mention, the sacrifice his brothers and sisters made along the way to see to it that he gets THE RIDE that will make him a forturne.

An example...where was Lawrence's agent when all hell broke loose regarding his last esacapade. I would think that getting banned by the AMA would have warranted some kind of response. Nothing from Sepkovic!!!!

What about Josh Hill - if there was any rider out there that I would have NEVER thought would have gotten into the trouble that he was into at Freestone it was Josh. A wonderful kid and a wonderful family! Where was Button or Astphan speaking out on his behalf?

Back in the day, a rider's results spoke for what he would produce for a sponsor. Sponsors need to look at the up-and-coming athletes and see where they come from - I guarantee you that they didn't come from an agent, or a big suite in a hotel or a limo to the banquet - they come from hard wordking parents that gave their blood, sweat and tears so see their child succeed.

I'll stop here, because I know you all will start bashing on me, and to tell you the truth, I really can't take it tonight. Call me a "puss" or whatever - I don't care. I'm just trying to tell you all that these young riders are being lead down the wrong path for the sake of a $.





So, who is this up and comer from Nederland? There used to be a lot of talent from there back in the late 70's. Never any that really made it to the top, but the local scene was pretty damn quick. Twenty miles away in Bridge City though some Chad Parker guy went on to win a few world championships .
ProMed
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7/30/2008 10:51am
UpTiTe wrote:
A friend of mine manages a team and we were having a conversation about managers, in both our opinions riders dont need them. There is a...
A friend of mine manages a team and we were having a conversation about managers, in both our opinions riders dont need them. There is a rider who would gladly ride for 1.3 but his manager wants double that and is mad at his rider for talking to the team. Another rider lost his ride because of his agent.

Agents want to push the limits and get the most for thier riders, but sometimes the money is just not there.

RJ did the best job of managing himself. He told the teams what he would ride for and there was no negotiating. He had his accountant look at the contracts and pay him an hourly fee for it and he would advise him on it. His accountant also looked over his money and got a percentage of what he made RJ on investments.

Today there either to lazy or not smart enough to do it on their own, but there is no need for a manager in MX. If your making huge cash then you need a money manager but not a manager.
flarider wrote:
This is very much correct, as is the original poster. Only the most elite riders like JS, RC, CR, KW need an agent, because there is...
This is very much correct, as is the original poster.


Only the most elite riders like JS, RC, CR, KW need an agent, because there is a lot of different product endorsement and media issues to deal with. Any rider outside of the top 3 or 5 really has no need for an agent.

I have seen more riders lose deals because the agent was demanding more than the company was willing to pay. Something is better than nothing, right? This is not a long term venture, it is very short term, take what you can get. Agents need to milk the cash, not for the rider but for themselves. If a rider think he should make XXX for doing something, the agent has to demand XXXXX in order to cover their commission...many teams and companies can't afford that...and the agent is making them pay for something they don't need, the agent.

I have spent time and money on many kids as they move up the ranks, and pretty much the moment an agent gets involved, we get dumped like a load of laundry, because we don't have the big dollar budget. Agents don't get paid on product only deals, but only cash deals.

I know of a few team managers who HATE agents and know that the second one is involved, their budget in that rider went up an easy 10%...right off the top. So if that team is on a fixed budget, either the rider makes less money or doesn't ride at all, because the agent's gotta get paid. Yes, riders do lose rides because if agent's fees and teams budgets don't mesh.


and lastly, while an agent is not a baby sitter, part of their job is PR. Notice how later in RC's career someone pumped out PR from his camp when necessary? Right, that's an agent's job. It is not the agent's job to run away and hide when their client is in deep shit. Ask Drew Rosenhaus. If Jason would've been his client, he'd have been the guy bailing him out, driving him to a hotel, on the phone with media and typing a PR/apology to fans all before the sun even came up the next morning...THAT is what an agent does, not run away, hide and hope it goes away when the shit gets sticky.

MX agents (Many, not all) are little more than networking people and salespeople, selling their product to their friends. They have no legal skills, no formal training, no PR skills and are little more than former industry people who just use the fact that they're in the business and have a name as some qualifier to be an agent.

Truth be told, there are few (few) true "agents" in this industry


and boy am I gonna catch shit for this
Good insight there into the world of mx agents, thanks.
eurohero
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7/30/2008 11:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:50pm
Like anything, you have to take the good with the bad. Many times, an agent has access or connections that you(parent) do not have. An agents phone is ringing every day, is your phone ringing? An agent has a phone book of important connections, do you?

Now, I will agree that many of these guys are only focused on money and themselves which is a total shame. I can't get over how some agents are more loyal to a sponsor than they are to their rider. To me, thats a conflict of interest, but they go with the money.

Unfortunately, many agents are either too aggressive, or not aggressive enough in terms of money. Most top riders need an agent and on top of that, a manager(business). These careers should be treated like a business and that manager should oversee the big picture. The agent would then be a piece of that puzzle and bring in the contacts and negotiations. This is ideal if there is enough money to go around and the people involved are trustworthy. One less thing for the rider to worry about. Many times, an 18-19 year old stops listening to Mom/Dad and wants to hear it from someone else, hopefully that someone else is on the same page as you.
Tiki
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7/31/2008 12:54am
Yaknow...
For all the professional motocross riders I know, none of them are the way you expressed it. Wicked cool people that excel at their sport. Now maybe you are dealing from a different deck; the most unpallatable people I have ever run into in all sports are those that suck just enough they never qualify, never make it, always the next big thing. Mom and Dad are living vicariously through their kids and meanwhile the kid has taken up Meth only to self implode next year and get a job at the loading docks.

I guess those are the people with the agents that Dave is talking about. But as Dave said those are the people that really don't need an agent but hire one to get screwed out of a job.

The universe unfolds as it should. Buck up lil puss. There's worse things you could be doing for money such as driving the Honey wagon!
KAWboy14
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7/31/2008 5:36am
dbch wrote:
You know I can't names because of the liability, but just want you to know I know what I'm talking about. Yes, there are some good...
You know I can't names because of the liability, but just want you to know I know what I'm talking about. Yes, there are some good ones out there, but for the most part, they are all out for themselves and know that if the rider they are working with takes a fall , that there are a lot of new ones coming along to take their place. Again, it's all about the money - not the rider.,
are you DC?
7/31/2008 7:19am
eurohero wrote: Like anything, you have to take the good with the bad. Many times, an agent has access or connections that you(parent) do not have. An agents phone is ringing every day, is your phone ringing? An agent has a phone book of important connections, do you?


Josh Hansen didnt have a manager and he did ok. In fact if he would have had a manager, JGR would never have even gave him the time of day.
YAMABOB
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7/31/2008 9:05am
UpTiTe wrote:
eurohero wrote: Like anything, you have to take the good with the bad. Many times, an agent has access or connections that you(parent) do not have...
eurohero wrote: Like anything, you have to take the good with the bad. Many times, an agent has access or connections that you(parent) do not have. An agents phone is ringing every day, is your phone ringing? An agent has a phone book of important connections, do you?


Josh Hansen didnt have a manager and he did ok. In fact if he would have had a manager, JGR would never have even gave him the time of day.
If he did not have an agent it is only because he got dropped by like 3 or 4 of them and could not find someone to represent him.

He did great, he landed a ride for 1/3 of the year.

Summey has (or had the last I knew) an agent, I know all the guys JGR is talking to for next year have agents.

It comes down to what the agent can or can't do for you.

As a rider your performance and actions will make industry sponsors take notice, but an agent can bring you non-indemic sponsors you don't have access to as a rider.

An agent can take over negotiations so that you as a rider can concentrate on your performance and actions, but they had better get you 10-20% more money because if they don't they have ultimately cost the rider money once the agent's fees are paid.

Agents are a necessary thing for some athletes but not every rider needs one or can afford to spend 10%+ of what they make on one.

When will Drew Rosenhaus make his presence known in moto?

Ketchum

7/31/2008 9:11am
I think these MX agents should be payed on a tier system whereby they make a lower percentage on anything along the lines of "ride", gear, mx accessories, etc... Where they truly could make their money is when they bring their rider exposure vis-a-vis outside sponsorship. Bring the rider a endorsement outside the "mx family" and that would be worth it. Also, these agents should be responsible for design / management of the riders website. Every rider should have a professional website and it astounds me how many do not.
YAMABOB
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7/31/2008 9:27am
Landshark wrote:
I think these MX agents should be payed on a tier system whereby they make a lower percentage on anything along the lines of "ride", gear...
I think these MX agents should be payed on a tier system whereby they make a lower percentage on anything along the lines of "ride", gear, mx accessories, etc... Where they truly could make their money is when they bring their rider exposure vis-a-vis outside sponsorship. Bring the rider a endorsement outside the "mx family" and that would be worth it. Also, these agents should be responsible for design / management of the riders website. Every rider should have a professional website and it astounds me how many do not.
Awesome!!!!!!

Websites/ Merchandising are 2 of the biggest things I think current agents are overlooking.

Non-indemic is where it is at. Do you think James Stewart needs help getting a gear sponsor? How about goggles? I did not think so.

Agents should be rewarded double for bringing outside sponsors and should be held accountable for retention of those sponsors.

Ketchum
7/31/2008 12:18pm
YAMABOB wrote:
If he did not have an agent it is only because he got dropped by like 3 or 4 of them and could not find someone...
If he did not have an agent it is only because he got dropped by like 3 or 4 of them and could not find someone to represent him.

He did great, he landed a ride for 1/3 of the year.

Summey has (or had the last I knew) an agent, I know all the guys JGR is talking to for next year have agents.

It comes down to what the agent can or can't do for you.

As a rider your performance and actions will make industry sponsors take notice, but an agent can bring you non-indemic sponsors you don't have access to as a rider.

An agent can take over negotiations so that you as a rider can concentrate on your performance and actions, but they had better get you 10-20% more money because if they don't they have ultimately cost the rider money once the agent's fees are paid.

Agents are a necessary thing for some athletes but not every rider needs one or can afford to spend 10%+ of what they make on one.

When will Drew Rosenhaus make his presence known in moto?

Ketchum

Last year JGR wouldnt deal with anyone with an agent. This year they are dealing with a different type of rider and they dont like one of the agents already. Josh has never been dropped by an agent, he negotiated his last two contracts himself. And your right he did only make it 1/3 of the year, not because he didnt have an agent, it was because he didnt live up to the contract he signed.
7/31/2008 12:41pm
I agree with alot of what is said here. The parents dump all the time, money, sweat, and sacrafice everthing for these kids. When the kids sign on the dotted line alot of them want to forget all about the parents and who actually helped get them there. They move out to california get a big house, fancy car, and party like rock stars. Meanwhile they are finishing midpack and collecting a paycheck.
Trip
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7/31/2008 12:51pm
Whaaaaaa......Do a better job of raising your kid and nobody, including an agent will be able to come between you two. Maybe the kid had a problem with the parent? Typical, blame someone else for your parenting short comings.
You as a parent should not be expected to be paid back for rasing your kids, you had them. You have to know when to let go. Sounds like someone needs a hug from their mx kid.
zippy895
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7/31/2008 2:19pm
who was the first to have an agent in the u s ...mcgrath?
YAMABOB
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7/31/2008 2:39pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Last year JGR wouldnt deal with anyone with an agent. This year they are dealing with a different type of rider and they dont like one...
Last year JGR wouldnt deal with anyone with an agent. This year they are dealing with a different type of rider and they dont like one of the agents already. Josh has never been dropped by an agent, he negotiated his last two contracts himself. And your right he did only make it 1/3 of the year, not because he didnt have an agent, it was because he didnt live up to the contract he signed.
Never? The Familie (now WMG)?

Heck JGR is working with David Evans who IS an agent.

And no what happened with Josh H. was definetly not because of his agent.

I need to shut up because I am going to get myself in trouble like Dave.

Ketchum

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