Posts
736
Joined
1/24/2012
Location
Annapolis, MD, USA
Edited Date/Time
11/20/2012 6:20pm
If the track loses this one, it could change motocross flagging forever.
I still maintain that the general practice of relying on untrained volunteers as your most crucial safety personnel may bite this industry one day: Read the last sentence.
And I am not posting this for a Internet public hanging of the plaintiff.
(CN) - A pair of racing associations must face claims that they failed to protect a motocross driver from oncoming bikes after an accident, a New York appeals court ruled.
Martin Ozog and his wife, Amanda, sued the Western New York Motocross Association and Palmyra Racing Association for negligence.
Ozog, an experienced motocross racer, complained that a flag person failed to warn racers away after he was thrown from his bike, leading other racers to hit him.
A judge in Wayne County, N.Y., denied the racing associations' asked motion for summary judgment, and the Appellate Division's Rochester-based Fourth Department affirmed.
"Plaintiffs presented evidence that the flag person at the location where plaintiff was injured either was not trained properly or did not act appropriately to warn oncoming racers that plaintiff had fallen from his vehicle and was on the track," the unsigned opinion states.
"Plaintiffs thereby raised an issue of fact whether an allegedly improperly trained or negligent flag person is a risk inherent in the sport of motocross racing," the justices added
I still maintain that the general practice of relying on untrained volunteers as your most crucial safety personnel may bite this industry one day: Read the last sentence.
And I am not posting this for a Internet public hanging of the plaintiff.
(CN) - A pair of racing associations must face claims that they failed to protect a motocross driver from oncoming bikes after an accident, a New York appeals court ruled.
Martin Ozog and his wife, Amanda, sued the Western New York Motocross Association and Palmyra Racing Association for negligence.
Ozog, an experienced motocross racer, complained that a flag person failed to warn racers away after he was thrown from his bike, leading other racers to hit him.
A judge in Wayne County, N.Y., denied the racing associations' asked motion for summary judgment, and the Appellate Division's Rochester-based Fourth Department affirmed.
"Plaintiffs presented evidence that the flag person at the location where plaintiff was injured either was not trained properly or did not act appropriately to warn oncoming racers that plaintiff had fallen from his vehicle and was on the track," the unsigned opinion states.
"Plaintiffs thereby raised an issue of fact whether an allegedly improperly trained or negligent flag person is a risk inherent in the sport of motocross racing," the justices added
While I don't like the "track suing scum" anymore than the next guy, some of these tracks are just asking for it. Some of the obstacles they put right next to the track are just plain stupid. Hell, some of the track designs are downright stupid at the local level.
Defendants' further contention that any negligence attributable to them was not a proximate cause of plaintiff's injuries is raised for the first time in defendants' reply papers and thus is not properly before us (see Farnham v. Meder, 45 AD3d 1315, 1316; Whitley v. Buffalo Mun. Hous. Auth., 34 AD3d 1368, 1369).
The basic idea in the courts opinion is whether or not an improperly trained or negligent flagger is part of the risk assumed when participating in the sport. Moral of the story to Track Operators is to train and make sure the flaggers are doing their job.
p.s. The plaintiffs are a rider and his wife.
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That said....I have seen some pathetic flaggers not being managed or trained by pathetic promoters over the years. Promoters and track owners would be doing themselves and the sport a favor by being proactive in training the flaggers better.
There are great flaggers and bad flaggers.
There are track owners that pay attention to it, and others that don't.
Litmus test: If you're lining up for your moto at a world class motocross facility and they are calling for flaggers over the PA, It tells you something.
If you've ever watched a 10-year old girl in a sundress handed a flag while someone gets a drink. It says a lot.
If you've ever been beaned by bad flagging...you know the sport could do 1000% better. And it's worth it.( And no, I've never run a track).
Fuck it
Lets just let whatever goes and that's that?
Right?
What were you thinking when you posted ?
People need to do there job
We get pissed when there's not mustard on your burger but if the flagger is busy texting on his phone then fuck me and that's the risk you take?
Don't get me wrong I am lazy cuz i didnt read all the posts and have no ideas about the facts in this case but to make the comment you did I took it as what ever the situation was we should assume the risk
Wtf?
thats not the issue.
the issue is when you participate in a sport like this it's dangerous, if riders are going to sue from the result of being hurt, well this sport will have a short shelf life.
there are videos out there, and processes to train flaggers. There is some disconnect on what is the "best" way to keep that uniform.
There is also referee training available as well. Both are available from AMA and other organizations.
this comment above........Litmus test: If you're lining up for your moto at a world class motocross facility and they are calling for flaggers over the PA, It tells you something.
thats a BIG statement. If a track doesn't take the time to "organize" it's people to run the event, well what else is left to last minute? "world class" LOLOLOLOLOL thats funny, calling for flaggers is 1970's stuff. oh and i guess it's not funny at all.!
It's not anyone's fault but your own if you get landed on after highsiding on the back side of a blind double. Shouldn't have been out there. It is not the track's responsibility to be your own personal nanny.
skip to 8min 50 secs. shit gets real at that point.
Pit Row
Our buddy Brandon did a similar thing at his first race.. joking aside, that's another example of bad track design. The pro indoor races changed a lot over the years.. they keep people far away from corners for this exact reason.
Its freaking motocross people, you ride at your own risk. If its not safe then move on.
Flagger or not shit happens, wrap yourself in some bubble wrap next time you go out on the track.
it's dangerous enough without injecting the squid factor times ten.
to a track, throw'em on a bike with no clue as to WTF is goin on,
to learn to ride. the sport has worn on me to the point, i have sold my bikes
taken up golf, and almost moved on from the sport.
Its un-accessable as shit, its all day even for a practice day, its drama and
BS n the pits, or a hang out for alcholics to have a sitter for their kids, whilst
they are tossing back beer after beer. Its a true reflection of where society is at rite now and its pretty f'n disgusting. But its no diff than any other sport anymore, its loosing its indiviuality something fierce!
I agree with your statement "If its not safe move on". Tracks should just provide the level of safety that they advise the riders will be present when the rider gets to the track. Would you participate if no Flaggers were present? Some may, others may not.
Shit does happen, what you are seeing here is limited only to the "shit" that happens when a fallen riders is hit by another rider that might have been prevented by proper flagging that the track provided and that the rider knew was present when they went to the track. The outcome of the case being discussed has not yet been decided, it very well may be that the flagging was done well and the Plaintiff will loose. The standard isn't one of perfection. At least in California, the standard appears to be one of gross incompetence/gross negligence.
Safety is on a scale or continuum. You don't have to say "screw it, it's dangerous anyhow." and just accept the way things are.
I don't even have the solutions, but I wish I could change that culture that 104sDad describes. It's dumb. At the very least if a kid gets hurt, you look at the reason and see if you can fix it Like maybe not parking trucks on the other side of bowl turns. I've also seen bowl turns like that where if you go over it- it's the middle of an oncoming fast straight. Just asking for trouble.
The worst that happened to me at an unsupervised track with no flaggers was almost going head on with a quad going the wrong way on the track. Luckily he came over a third gear WFO blind jump as I was approaching, not a few seconds later. I've seen the worst shit you can imagine in head on collisions. Like bodies. It's not pretty.
Everybody seems to be assuming that the flagger did not do their job.
This is america.
Just because someone files a lawsuit does not mean there is any basis to it.
And another point, I have seen just as many accidents caused by riders completely disregarding a flagger as I have seen as a result of a flagger not doing their job.
A lot of people get upset about the current state of tort law. Well let me tell you idiots something, bitching on a motocross board isn't helping a thing. Speak to your local legislators and tell them you're in favor of tort reform if you want something to change.
We get the government we deserve.
Post a reply to: Flagging lawsuit moves forward