one Motocross rider suing another and our Local Track

downandup
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8/23/2012 8:21am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2012 8:22am
While I agree that there are idiots who sue tracks for super stupid reasons, but, what if the track workers did something really dumb like not close the track to the riders and suddenly a track worker crossed the track with a dozer and ran into a rider and seriously messed him up? Would you sue for damages if they didn't pay?

Remember, they have INSURANCE, and won't go out of business because of this. Their insurance company lawyers handle everything. The track does not hire an attorney. The track does not dish out any money for an attorney. The will not go under because of this!

p.s. I am NOT for suing at all, I am just pointing out what happens when someone gets sued.
FreshTopEnd
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8/23/2012 8:24am
downandup wrote:
While I agree that there are idiots who sue tracks for super stupid reasons, but, what if the track workers did something really dumb like not...
While I agree that there are idiots who sue tracks for super stupid reasons, but, what if the track workers did something really dumb like not close the track to the riders and suddenly a track worker crossed the track with a dozer and ran into a rider and seriously messed him up? Would you sue for damages if they didn't pay?

Remember, they have INSURANCE, and won't go out of business because of this. Their insurance company lawyers handle everything. The track does not hire an attorney. The track does not dish out any money for an attorney. The will not go under because of this!

p.s. I am NOT for suing at all, I am just pointing out what happens when someone gets sued.
1) That's not this situation.

2) Don't assume an insurance company won't pull its policy or raise rates prohibitively after a claim, frivolous or not.
downandup
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8/23/2012 8:29am
downandup wrote:
While I agree that there are idiots who sue tracks for super stupid reasons, but, what if the track workers did something really dumb like not...
While I agree that there are idiots who sue tracks for super stupid reasons, but, what if the track workers did something really dumb like not close the track to the riders and suddenly a track worker crossed the track with a dozer and ran into a rider and seriously messed him up? Would you sue for damages if they didn't pay?

Remember, they have INSURANCE, and won't go out of business because of this. Their insurance company lawyers handle everything. The track does not hire an attorney. The track does not dish out any money for an attorney. The will not go under because of this!

p.s. I am NOT for suing at all, I am just pointing out what happens when someone gets sued.
1) That's not this situation. 2) Don't assume an insurance company won't pull its policy or raise rates prohibitively after a claim, frivolous or not.
1) That's not this situation.

2) Don't assume an insurance company won't pull its policy or raise rates prohibitively after a claim, frivolous or not.
Well, obviously it's not this situation! umm, I am just pointing out to these guys that there may be real reasons to sue a track.

And, you can always go to another insurance company to get a different policy if they raise rates.

Insurance companies are corporate greed times 1,000!!! The worst lawyers are those who work for insurance companies!
FreshTopEnd
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8/23/2012 8:30am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2012 8:43am
You sound like you've got experience here. Evil

The Shop

jndmx
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8/23/2012 8:40am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2012 8:41am
Have you actually talked to the guy about it yet? I'd be curious whether it's his deal or his medical insurer is pushing it. Virtually every...
Have you actually talked to the guy about it yet? I'd be curious whether it's his deal or his medical insurer is pushing it. Virtually every health insurance policy allows the insurer to pursue any claim you might have (whether you'd pursue it or not) against someone at fault for the incident that caused injury. The insurers have gotten more aggressive about pursuing these claims, and their sensibilities about "fault" in these contexts rarely aligns with an mx'ers sensibility about assuming the risks inherent in going on the track.
This..

Progressive insurance sent a lawyer to court to defend a guy that killed another driver.

The driver ran a red light and broadsided a car killing a young woman who was insured by Progressive.
Progressive tried to argue that she was at fault and not the driver that ran the red light and killed her.

Just so they wouldn't have to pay a legitimate claim the policy she had purchased.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/transportation/cars/progressive-…
BuDz34
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8/23/2012 8:52am
The shitty part is.. because this is such a cheap and ridiculous case of someone being a completer retard he will probably win because this is America King of politics.. I mean if some old bitch can beat out mcdonalds for dumping hot coffee on her self then the semantics of the so called judicial system is completely a disgusting page of ignorance.. The part I hate about our country!!
jeffro503
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8/23/2012 9:26am
HONDAMX155 wrote:
Ok well the shortened version with no names.... The track was in great shape from what I recall.. I went to go pass another rider on...
Ok well the shortened version with no names....

The track was in great shape from what I recall.. I went to go pass another rider on the right, "who so Happened to be my friend".. When I went to pass him he moved over and our bikes hit side by side and his bike got hooked in my rad brace or something... We both fell and he broke his femur, I dont recall any injury on my part prolly with the exception of some minor scrapes or sprain.. I honestly dont recall.... So now here he is Suing myself and the track tryin to claim I am a reckless rider ... I mean Cmon we all know the risk we take when we go on a track.. Esp once you go on a track where there are 80plus ft doubles n triplesand tabletops added into the mix...
This "former" buddy of yours.....is he friends with a lot of your other riding buddies as well? Good way to lose a lot of friends doing something like this.

I have to just sit here and shake my head after I read what you said happened.......as in " what did he expect"? Everyone "hopes" to get out of a practice day or race day unharmed.......but sometimes that doesn't happen.

And another thing......how in the world would this be the tracks fault? They can't control what the riders will do on the track.....and even though it was you he got tangled up with......this kind of stuff happens.

Keep us updated on the what is going on with it if you have time. I'd be curious to know.
jndmx
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8/23/2012 9:41am
This really sounds like a case of the "friends" insurance company not wanting to foot the bill for his getting hurt.
So they will go after everyone involved to try and recoup some money.
newmann
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8/23/2012 9:48am
As FTE pointed out, no one here even knows who initiated the lawsuit. Happens all the time.

We were having a party at our house for our kids T-Ball team one year. One parent shows up with a volleyball net and sets it up in the yard. He then proceeds to break his ankle playing volleyball. He had insurance. But guess who started asking where the accident happened and then started quizzing about my insurance coverage? Yep, the insurance company was looking for some money. I just told them I had no homeowners insurance. I was not going to do their work for them. Guess they didn't want to put any effort into it either because nothing ever became of it.
8/23/2012 9:54am
newmann wrote:
As FTE pointed out, no one here even knows who initiated the lawsuit. Happens all the time. We were having a party at our house for...
As FTE pointed out, no one here even knows who initiated the lawsuit. Happens all the time.

We were having a party at our house for our kids T-Ball team one year. One parent shows up with a volleyball net and sets it up in the yard. He then proceeds to break his ankle playing volleyball. He had insurance. But guess who started asking where the accident happened and then started quizzing about my insurance coverage? Yep, the insurance company was looking for some money. I just told them I had no homeowners insurance. I was not going to do their work for them. Guess they didn't want to put any effort into it either because nothing ever became of it.
LOL

Unbelievable.

Don't you just love being the host on deals like this.

Did the guy even ask you if he could bring it?
dkg
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8/23/2012 9:54am
I am kind of curious as to what the collective opinion is of this:

Approximately 20 other motocross riders were practicing on the track when RIDER arrived—there was not a race occurring at the track. RIDER put on his goggles, helmet, and chest protector, and proceeded to ride his motorcycle on the track. RIDER had been riding on the track for approximately 30 minutes when he went up a ramp for a jump and fell, landing on the downslope of the ramp, which placed him outside of the view of the other riders. RIDER was not hurt, and proceeded to stand and pick up his motorcycle. Approximately 30 seconds later, a motorcyclist on the track struck RIDER. Approximately 20 seconds after that collision, a second motorcyclist struck RIDER. RIDER's initial fall took place near a platform where a person employed as a “caution flagger” would typically stand. From the platform, a “caution flagger” can see riders who have fallen down, and then alert other riders, who are unable to see fallen motorcyclists, that there is a fallen motorcyclist on the track. There was at least one caution flagger at the track when RIDER fell; however, at the time of the fall, the caution flagger was not on the platform near the location where RIDER fell. RIDER saw a caution flagger on the far side of the track from where he fell, and he saw the caution flagger run towards him prior to being struck by the second motorcyclist.
motosmith
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8/23/2012 10:10am
I frequent Englishtown pretty much every weekend or every 2 weeks, sometimes i take off on Wednesdays to hit up the race track. First and foremost...
I frequent Englishtown pretty much every weekend or every 2 weeks, sometimes i take off on Wednesdays to hit up the race track.

First and foremost, about the tracks.... I have only been to Englishtown a few times where the conditions were absolutely perfect. Wednesday August 15th I was at the Pro track and the conditions were EXCELLENT. I mean, the dirt was 100% perfect in my opinion. Why? It rained the night before, drizzled a little during the day, and not one of the mexi-workers had a hose in their hand the entire day. That following Saturday, I went to the practice track. It stormed bad on Friday and there was a 50% chance of rain on Saturday, so not many people went. Again, the track was absolutely perfect. Evenly watered (because of the rain) and well groomed. Then Sunday comes around, a beautiful day, mid 70's to low 80s, track was packed. The track was horrible. I guess after Saturday they went and laid down some hay on the track to help retain water. There was no hay on the track on Saturday and it was perfect. In the morning, they laid down so much fricken water that the entire track was a mud fest, even worse than after a natural rain storm!!! The hay they laid down was like riding over a slip and slide. Because it was a mudfest, huge ruts formed all over the track, ruts only A and B class riders can handle. The rest of the spodes were tip toeing around the entire track. And to make matters worse, the mexicans were actually adding more water to the track!!!

Secondly, the riderrs.... Only about 25% of the riders that actually show up to a practice day should be riding A class. The rest are either kids that think they are fast, or complete spodes that are riding a faster class to look cool. When this happens, you have kids in the A and B class that should be in the C class, and its completely DANGEROUS. I'm talking people who can't even jump 40 foot table tops! That's DANGEROUS when you have guys flat out ripping on the track.

Thirdly, about your incident. Part of your insurance waiver says that you understand all the risks involved and the track is not liable for injuries. RIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Sounds like your buddy was a spode and you were trying to make a legit pass, you guys tangled, and now he is butt hurt about it. But that is me hearing only one side of the story.
At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me off when I see it.
DrSweden
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8/23/2012 10:12am
Sad story. This whole sue thing makes US come out as a bit freaky. I felt the present of this as well I lived there, made me cautious, and was constant reminded of it by friends and others. Riding was a bitch, getting invited to a personal track was often a hassle before people knew who I was.

I hear people on all levels feels frustrated because law suits are way to common, and has taken over common sense in many areas. Heard teachers not being allowed to do their work properly because dysfunctional parents sued teachers from anything from hugging the wrong crying children to their kids falling down from "dangerous" jungle gyms...

The collective good has become secondary to personal greed. Nothing wrong with the lawyers (don't blame the players like FTE) it's the justice system that's flawed for me. I saw this ad every time I went to the track. Kind of symbols the madness for me.
disbanded
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8/23/2012 10:19am
Tort reform
FreshTopEnd
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8/23/2012 10:27am
BuDz34 wrote:
The shitty part is.. because this is such a cheap and ridiculous case of someone being a completer retard he will probably win because this is...
The shitty part is.. because this is such a cheap and ridiculous case of someone being a completer retard he will probably win because this is America King of politics.. I mean if some old bitch can beat out mcdonalds for dumping hot coffee on her self then the semantics of the so called judicial system is completely a disgusting page of ignorance.. The part I hate about our country!!
Just a clarification, the McDonalds coffee lady only got awarded money because a jury made up of average joes gave it to her. The award reduced by the trial judge (the parties settled on appeal). So, actually, the legal system ended up as a check on what the public was willing to do.

That said, New Mexico tends to be a plaintiffs' friendly state, not all of them are.
tapkawiman
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8/23/2012 10:28am
I frequent Englishtown pretty much every weekend or every 2 weeks, sometimes i take off on Wednesdays to hit up the race track. First and foremost...
I frequent Englishtown pretty much every weekend or every 2 weeks, sometimes i take off on Wednesdays to hit up the race track.

First and foremost, about the tracks.... I have only been to Englishtown a few times where the conditions were absolutely perfect. Wednesday August 15th I was at the Pro track and the conditions were EXCELLENT. I mean, the dirt was 100% perfect in my opinion. Why? It rained the night before, drizzled a little during the day, and not one of the mexi-workers had a hose in their hand the entire day. That following Saturday, I went to the practice track. It stormed bad on Friday and there was a 50% chance of rain on Saturday, so not many people went. Again, the track was absolutely perfect. Evenly watered (because of the rain) and well groomed. Then Sunday comes around, a beautiful day, mid 70's to low 80s, track was packed. The track was horrible. I guess after Saturday they went and laid down some hay on the track to help retain water. There was no hay on the track on Saturday and it was perfect. In the morning, they laid down so much fricken water that the entire track was a mud fest, even worse than after a natural rain storm!!! The hay they laid down was like riding over a slip and slide. Because it was a mudfest, huge ruts formed all over the track, ruts only A and B class riders can handle. The rest of the spodes were tip toeing around the entire track. And to make matters worse, the mexicans were actually adding more water to the track!!!

Secondly, the riderrs.... Only about 25% of the riders that actually show up to a practice day should be riding A class. The rest are either kids that think they are fast, or complete spodes that are riding a faster class to look cool. When this happens, you have kids in the A and B class that should be in the C class, and its completely DANGEROUS. I'm talking people who can't even jump 40 foot table tops! That's DANGEROUS when you have guys flat out ripping on the track.

Thirdly, about your incident. Part of your insurance waiver says that you understand all the risks involved and the track is not liable for injuries. RIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Sounds like your buddy was a spode and you were trying to make a legit pass, you guys tangled, and now he is butt hurt about it. But that is me hearing only one side of the story.
motosmith wrote:
At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me off when...
At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me off when I see it.
motosmith wrote: At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me off when I see it.

Not quit understanding your logic here... Some of the dumbest things I have seen at a track with equipment operators were riders...and heck I now alot of people that build airplanes that have no idea how to fly one, doesnt make them incompetent to do their job properly...

I personally dont think that being a dirt bike rider has any thing to do with it, I would say as a society we are lacking in common sence department when it comes to doing something that could put someone elses life in danger...
downandup
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8/23/2012 10:36am
BuDz34 wrote:
The shitty part is.. because this is such a cheap and ridiculous case of someone being a completer retard he will probably win because this is...
The shitty part is.. because this is such a cheap and ridiculous case of someone being a completer retard he will probably win because this is America King of politics.. I mean if some old bitch can beat out mcdonalds for dumping hot coffee on her self then the semantics of the so called judicial system is completely a disgusting page of ignorance.. The part I hate about our country!!
Just a clarification, the McDonalds coffee lady only got awarded money because a jury made up of average joes gave it to her. The award reduced...
Just a clarification, the McDonalds coffee lady only got awarded money because a jury made up of average joes gave it to her. The award reduced by the trial judge (the parties settled on appeal). So, actually, the legal system ended up as a check on what the public was willing to do.

That said, New Mexico tends to be a plaintiffs' friendly state, not all of them are.
AND................

She wasn't the one who was driving the car when they went to Micky Ds, her son was. She was burned so horribly is was insane! Have you, BuDz34, seen the pictures? It was like someone took a blow torch to her upper leg, it was incredibly awful. If you haven't seen the pictures, you shouldn't be commenting.

Micky Ds knew their coffee was super hot and they had been burning people for years. They had complaints but did nothing about it.
motosmith
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8/23/2012 10:38am
I frequent Englishtown pretty much every weekend or every 2 weeks, sometimes i take off on Wednesdays to hit up the race track. First and foremost...
I frequent Englishtown pretty much every weekend or every 2 weeks, sometimes i take off on Wednesdays to hit up the race track.

First and foremost, about the tracks.... I have only been to Englishtown a few times where the conditions were absolutely perfect. Wednesday August 15th I was at the Pro track and the conditions were EXCELLENT. I mean, the dirt was 100% perfect in my opinion. Why? It rained the night before, drizzled a little during the day, and not one of the mexi-workers had a hose in their hand the entire day. That following Saturday, I went to the practice track. It stormed bad on Friday and there was a 50% chance of rain on Saturday, so not many people went. Again, the track was absolutely perfect. Evenly watered (because of the rain) and well groomed. Then Sunday comes around, a beautiful day, mid 70's to low 80s, track was packed. The track was horrible. I guess after Saturday they went and laid down some hay on the track to help retain water. There was no hay on the track on Saturday and it was perfect. In the morning, they laid down so much fricken water that the entire track was a mud fest, even worse than after a natural rain storm!!! The hay they laid down was like riding over a slip and slide. Because it was a mudfest, huge ruts formed all over the track, ruts only A and B class riders can handle. The rest of the spodes were tip toeing around the entire track. And to make matters worse, the mexicans were actually adding more water to the track!!!

Secondly, the riderrs.... Only about 25% of the riders that actually show up to a practice day should be riding A class. The rest are either kids that think they are fast, or complete spodes that are riding a faster class to look cool. When this happens, you have kids in the A and B class that should be in the C class, and its completely DANGEROUS. I'm talking people who can't even jump 40 foot table tops! That's DANGEROUS when you have guys flat out ripping on the track.

Thirdly, about your incident. Part of your insurance waiver says that you understand all the risks involved and the track is not liable for injuries. RIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Sounds like your buddy was a spode and you were trying to make a legit pass, you guys tangled, and now he is butt hurt about it. But that is me hearing only one side of the story.
motosmith wrote:
At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me off when...
At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me off when I see it.
tapkawiman wrote:
[b]motosmith wrote: At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me...
motosmith wrote: At most tracks around the country, the people in charge of watering have never ridden a dirt bike in their entire life. Pisses me off when I see it.

Not quit understanding your logic here... Some of the dumbest things I have seen at a track with equipment operators were riders...and heck I now alot of people that build airplanes that have no idea how to fly one, doesnt make them incompetent to do their job properly...

I personally dont think that being a dirt bike rider has any thing to do with it, I would say as a society we are lacking in common sence department when it comes to doing something that could put someone elses life in danger...
Building airplanes? Well I guess I agree with you. An engineer can build a great motorcycle without ever riding one. However, I'm talking about watering a surface that's going to be ridden. That requires experience riding such surface.
downandup
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8/23/2012 10:38am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2012 10:39am
jndmx wrote:
This really sounds like a case of the "friends" insurance company not wanting to foot the bill for his getting hurt. So they will go after...
This really sounds like a case of the "friends" insurance company not wanting to foot the bill for his getting hurt.
So they will go after everyone involved to try and recoup some money.
^^^ This ^^^

ie..., go after everyone else's insurance company!
dkg
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8/23/2012 10:42am
Just a clarification, the McDonalds coffee lady only got awarded money because a jury made up of average joes gave it to her. The award reduced...
Just a clarification, the McDonalds coffee lady only got awarded money because a jury made up of average joes gave it to her. The award reduced by the trial judge (the parties settled on appeal). So, actually, the legal system ended up as a check on what the public was willing to do.

That said, New Mexico tends to be a plaintiffs' friendly state, not all of them are.
A little additional clarification on the McDoanld's case (you don't see this part in the news and I think the jury award that was reduced by the court was crazy):

The sweat pants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonald's refused.
tapkawiman
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8/23/2012 10:54am
I dont think Liebeck should of got a dime.... IMO

If someone is ignorant enough to stick something between their legs that they now fully well could burn them(and if you have drank coffee or hot chocolate you know that) then it is their own stupidity and it should of never seen the inside of a courtroom. Its not like they gave her a cup and the cup failed.
disbanded
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8/23/2012 11:05am
Maybe McDonald's should have helped pay for her hospital bills, but in no way should she have been awarded over 1.7 million dollars and made rich from the incident.
jndmx
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8/23/2012 11:07am
tapkawiman wrote:
I dont think Liebeck should of got a dime.... IMO If someone is ignorant enough to stick something between their legs that they now fully well...
I dont think Liebeck should of got a dime.... IMO

If someone is ignorant enough to stick something between their legs that they now fully well could burn them(and if you have drank coffee or hot chocolate you know that) then it is their own stupidity and it should of never seen the inside of a courtroom. Its not like they gave her a cup and the cup failed.
You should have a little more knowledge before you speak.......

Liebeck placed the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled into her lap.

During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard.

McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees.


http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
VET74
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8/23/2012 11:10am
I've been hurt at many tracks over the years because of negligence of the track operators/workers, however, when I show up on their property and sign the waiver, I personally accept the fact that the sport I'm engaging in is inherently dangerous and that anything can/will happen.

Unfortunately our society is always looking for someone else to blame, and someone always has to pay.
dkg
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8/23/2012 11:18am
VET74 wrote:
I've been hurt at many tracks over the years because of negligence of the track operators/workers, however, when I show up on their property and sign...
I've been hurt at many tracks over the years because of negligence of the track operators/workers, however, when I show up on their property and sign the waiver, I personally accept the fact that the sport I'm engaging in is inherently dangerous and that anything can/will happen.

Unfortunately our society is always looking for someone else to blame, and someone always has to pay.
Generally I agree. Personal responsibility is paramount. Got to say though, I have trouble with a flagger leaving their post to run off and talk to people. Oh well, ... crap happens ....
downandup
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8/23/2012 11:28am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2012 11:37am
disbanded wrote:
Maybe McDonald's should have helped pay for her hospital bills, but in no way should she have been awarded over 1.7 million dollars and made rich...
Maybe McDonald's should have helped pay for her hospital bills, but in no way should she have been awarded over 1.7 million dollars and made rich from the incident.
Don't you read???

You and Tapakwiman don't even know the story and you are commenting on something you don't even know about. You are following the TMZ gossip trail on that story!!!!! The story the insurance companies through out!

Originally she sued for only $20,000 (medical bills plus future med bills), but Micky's only offered her $800! She ultmately received, $640,000.
disbanded
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8/23/2012 11:31am
Well, if you can sue a flagger at a track then you better believe I will never be a flagger, and neither should anyone else.

That is a very dangerous precedent.
downandup
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8/23/2012 11:38am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2012 11:39am
disbanded wrote:
Well, if you can sue a flagger at a track then you better believe I will never be a flagger, and neither should anyone else. That...
Well, if you can sue a flagger at a track then you better believe I will never be a flagger, and neither should anyone else.

That is a very dangerous precedent.
You don't get it, the flagger himself would't be sued, the track as a whole would ultimately be sued. Therefore, the track's insurance company takes over. Go ahead and be a flagger, you don't have anything to worry about. (but read the fine print!)
dkg
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8/23/2012 11:40am
disbanded wrote:
Well, if you can sue a flagger at a track then you better believe I will never be a flagger, and neither should anyone else. That...
Well, if you can sue a flagger at a track then you better believe I will never be a flagger, and neither should anyone else.

That is a very dangerous precedent.
I've never heard of a flagger being sued.
disbanded
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Evergreen, CO US
8/23/2012 11:49am
Holy fuck let me out of this

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