Brotocross Thoughts on James' Crash

Crush
Posts
21135
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
Edited Date/Time 8/21/2012 7:05pm
|
Rob_Miller
Posts
149
Joined
7/4/2011
Location
Sayre, PA, USA
8/20/2012 5:42pm
I think he's right in a sense. Stewart is having trouble bringing the bike back. I think his reaction time is too slow for as fast as he is riding the bike. That section he wrecked in.. he was flying. It was insane being right there watching him ring the guts out of that Suzuki through that section. The bike kicked sideways and he couldn't react fast enough. Honestly, at that pace.. who could? He is riding too fast. Yes, I said it. There is a such thing as riding too fast. Sections like that take some set up and some rythm too. You can't just hold the damn thing wide open and pound through everything. RV2 does this a lot too. Where he just let's it all hang out, slamming through everything. I think his reaction time is a lot quicker, and he is a lot stronger. Part of being able to hammer down sections like that is also being strong enough to hang onto to the bike and man handle it where you want it to go.
gsxrcr28
Posts
7419
Joined
3/5/2009
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
8/20/2012 5:50pm
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it at least a race to start pushing. Should have settled for third the first race, but it is easy to be a Monday evening quarterback.
jeffro503
Posts
27647
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
8/20/2012 6:44pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it...
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it at least a race to start pushing. Should have settled for third the first race, but it is easy to be a Monday evening quarterback.
Agree with everything you said right there. Stewart has never really been a guy to just "settle" though......and it's ended his come backs rather quickly because of it.

To me ( and this is my opinion ) is.....I think his reflexes have slowed a little and he is trying to push that envelope past his riding ability. Some times it works out and sometimes it doesn't. The bad thing is.....when it "doesn't" work out......he can have an extremely violent crash.

I honestly don't see how his body can keep taking these kind of hits and don't understand how his body can take much more of it.....without long term ( forever ) type damage.

The selfish side of me wants to see him push it and go for wins......but the other side of me ( the guy who doesn't want to see these guys get hurt ).......wants him to just back it down a notch and finish the damn race.

Bottom line : race up front on the days you feel 100%.......when you feel 95%....back it off and take a 2nd , 3rd or 4th.
Dezerted
Posts
637
Joined
11/10/2011
Location
Temecula, CA, USA
8/20/2012 7:17pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it...
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it at least a race to start pushing. Should have settled for third the first race, but it is easy to be a Monday evening quarterback.
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like hangtown. Unfortunately I believe Stewart has seen his best days and I'm truly bummed about that. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

The Shop

gsxrcr28
Posts
7419
Joined
3/5/2009
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
8/20/2012 7:22pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2012 7:25pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it...
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it at least a race to start pushing. Should have settled for third the first race, but it is easy to be a Monday evening quarterback.
Dezerted wrote:
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like...
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like hangtown. Unfortunately I believe Stewart has seen his best days and I'm truly bummed about that. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace?


What I mean by that is missing races in the middle of the season when the other guys are racing every weekend. And yes I know it had been many years since he raced outdoors but it had also been 7 or 8 months? or so since Dungey, Alessi and those guys had also. And riding local tracks in Cali don't mean Jack when it comes to trying to race Dungey and Alessi at Unadilla. JMO of coarse.
BAMX
Posts
2902
Joined
1/22/2012
Location
Fallbrook, CA, USA
8/20/2012 7:27pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it...
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it at least a race to start pushing. Should have settled for third the first race, but it is easy to be a Monday evening quarterback.
Dezerted wrote:
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like...
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like hangtown. Unfortunately I believe Stewart has seen his best days and I'm truly bummed about that. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
He ran the pace of Dungey on a brand new bike outdoors with minimal testing. BTW..... on the bike that Dungey dialed in last year to perfection.

I'm not bagging on JS7 at all. He is an awesome rider and it is better with him racing than without. I do disagree that Dungey was on pace with a brand new ground up bike. As the pace quickened mid season, so did the soil samples.
gsxrcr28
Posts
7419
Joined
3/5/2009
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
8/20/2012 7:38pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it...
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it at least a race to start pushing. Should have settled for third the first race, but it is easy to be a Monday evening quarterback.
Dezerted wrote:
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like...
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like hangtown. Unfortunately I believe Stewart has seen his best days and I'm truly bummed about that. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
BAMX wrote:
He ran the pace of Dungey on a brand new bike outdoors with minimal testing. BTW..... on the bike that Dungey dialed in last year to...
He ran the pace of Dungey on a brand new bike outdoors with minimal testing. BTW..... on the bike that Dungey dialed in last year to perfection.

I'm not bagging on JS7 at all. He is an awesome rider and it is better with him racing than without. I do disagree that Dungey was on pace with a brand new ground up bike. As the pace quickened mid season, so did the soil samples.
Dungey dialing in a bike last year that Stewart had been on for a few weeks means nada, their settings are extremely different.

If that is the theory then Dungey had been on the KTM for at least 6 months, and Stewart had not raced outdoors since 2008.

I am a huge fan of Dungey (I don't know how anyone couldn't be) but don't try to discredit anyone on their wins.
TDeath21
Posts
6515
Joined
2/22/2011
Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
8/20/2012 9:04pm
I disagree with their statement. Really all it came down to was James wanting the win instead of getting a 2nd or 3rd. It's never been in his style to settle. The only time I've ever seen him settle instead of going for the win was Vegas 09 and late in the 06 MX season. James has always said if he doesn't feel like he can win, he'd rather not be out there. Unfortunately, that style has put him on the ground several times. He should have taken his 3rd and been happy about it.

I respect the fact that he tried to come back this season, especially at his worst track. Hopefully he comes back in 2013 at 100% along with Villopoto, Reed, and Canard. Throw in the 450 rookies and possibly Pourcel and you've got potential for the top 8 to be up for grabs every weekend.

Off topic here, but is he racing the MEC or is he just waiting until A1?
8/21/2012 2:35am
Stewart's numerous crashes, along with his age are catching up to him.

He just doesn't react as well anymore, bounce as well when crashing, and have the ability to quickly get up with a clear head and chase them down like he used to.

One thing for sure though, it hasn't stopped him to this point of continuing to run WFO and take some amazing risks although there were a few races where he showed patience and maturity with his speed and timing to get to the front.

He may be the fastest rider on the planet (at least most of the time), but you could just as easily call those who beat him in a particular race as smarter than the fastest rider on the planet.
mx_563
Posts
2236
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
8/21/2012 4:36am Edited Date/Time 8/21/2012 4:36am
I haven't seen all of the close calls that the other riders have had so it's hard for me to say if they are so much better at "saving it" than James.

But I do agree that staying off the ground takes some skill and James has been hitting the deck a lot this year (regardless of bike brand).
iro
Posts
412
Joined
9/14/2006
Location
Howell, NJ, USA
8/21/2012 5:03am
I'm not buying into the slowed reaction time theory... Reason being he would not be able to do the things he does in the first place. I believe he's just goin so damn fast that when he makes a mistake, it leaves him on the ground. If he did back it down a notch, his mistakes (IMO) would be fewer and farther between (and have better outcomes). Maybe his age / crash toll is a factor but i think he's asking too much of himself too soon - he's not letting the cobwebs to be shaken out before he goes for it.
hasko158
Posts
874
Joined
8/14/2010
Location
Charlotte, NC, USA
8/21/2012 5:42am
When they said in the broadcast before first moto that anything less than a win would be disappointing I had a feeling the day wasn't going to go well. He can't see that guys like Dungey are his speed or faster, which is good in a sense but he needs to learn to settle for a podium sometimes, especially now when he's riding for "free".
FGR01
Posts
6145
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
USA
Fantasy
8/21/2012 5:59am
In summary, riding over his head.

When you go so fast that your speed overcomes your ability to stay on two wheels, that's called riding over your head.

I could go as fast as Stewart is going right now. Half of this board could. But we would end up on our heads just like him, too.

He grew up being able to beat anyone he lined up with on natural ability alone. He is conditioned for that. It don't work like that anymore and he hasn't come to terms with that yet.
kongols
Posts
24228
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga, LV
8/21/2012 6:16am
DV ‏@DavidVuillemin

Don't try to understand BRO... RT @BROtocross: My Immediate Reaction To Bubbsy's Crash http://bit.ly/SdpPZn


19h BROtocross BROtocross ‏@BROtocross

@DavidVuillemin done deal. I try not to understand most things
Grieby54
Posts
2826
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Castle Rock, CO, USA
8/21/2012 6:35am
kongols wrote:
DV ‏@DavidVuillemin Don't try to understand BRO... RT @BROtocross: My Immediate Reaction To Bubbsy's Crash http://bit.ly/SdpPZn 19h BROtocross BROtocross ‏@BROtocross @DavidVuillemin done deal. I try not...
DV ‏@DavidVuillemin

Don't try to understand BRO... RT @BROtocross: My Immediate Reaction To Bubbsy's Crash http://bit.ly/SdpPZn


19h BROtocross BROtocross ‏@BROtocross

@DavidVuillemin done deal. I try not to understand most things
I don't understand a bit of that. Who's saying what to whom?
adastra
Posts
11
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
8/21/2012 6:46am
I am a medical professional, and looking at the type and number of judgement errors and the number of crashes James Stewart had had recently, I strongly suspect that what we are seeing is neurological in nature His numerous concussions over his career have resulted in enoung sufficient and cumulative long-term damage that his balance and reflexes are now compromised, and will not allow him to race consistently at the level of his competition. Only time will tell, but I think the wonderful skills that Bubba once demonstrated will now only be fading memories.

Big Dog
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
8/21/2012 6:54am
Stewarts problem is that he upped the pace. Now he's required to run it.
BobbyM
Posts
21436
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
8/21/2012 7:02am
gsxrcr28 wrote:
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it...
He was much smoother at the beginning of the season. You cant come off the couch and run the current pace safely, should have gave it at least a race to start pushing. Should have settled for third the first race, but it is easy to be a Monday evening quarterback.
Dezerted wrote:
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like...
Didn't he come right off the couch round 1 and run the pace? He's been riding for at least a few weeks before unidilla much like hangtown. Unfortunately I believe Stewart has seen his best days and I'm truly bummed about that. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
or....maybe his wrist is fucked up and still very painful to ride like he wants too..not too.many parts are more hammered and
important to.ride than the hands/wrists.
BobbyM
Posts
21436
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
8/21/2012 7:07am Edited Date/Time 8/21/2012 7:09am
FGR01 wrote:
In summary, riding over his head. When you go so fast that your speed overcomes your ability to stay on two wheels, that's called riding over...
In summary, riding over his head.

When you go so fast that your speed overcomes your ability to stay on two wheels, that's called riding over your head.

I could go as fast as Stewart is going right now. Half of this board could. But we would end up on our heads just like him, too.

He grew up being able to beat anyone he lined up with on natural ability alone. He is conditioned for that. It don't work like that anymore and he hasn't come to terms with that yet.
yer fuckin high my friend..you and everybody else wouldn't make an 1/8 of a lap riding stewarts speed. hell you guys couldnt even get the scooter goin that fast if you rode it off a cliff...who you trying to bullshit? Smile
Rob_Miller
Posts
149
Joined
7/4/2011
Location
Sayre, PA, USA
8/21/2012 7:11am
newmann wrote:
Stewarts problem is that he upped the pace. Now he's required to run it.
Exactly.
FGR01
Posts
6145
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
USA
Fantasy
8/21/2012 7:17am
FGR01 wrote:
In summary, riding over his head. When you go so fast that your speed overcomes your ability to stay on two wheels, that's called riding over...
In summary, riding over his head.

When you go so fast that your speed overcomes your ability to stay on two wheels, that's called riding over your head.

I could go as fast as Stewart is going right now. Half of this board could. But we would end up on our heads just like him, too.

He grew up being able to beat anyone he lined up with on natural ability alone. He is conditioned for that. It don't work like that anymore and he hasn't come to terms with that yet.
BobbyM wrote:
yer fuckin high my friend..you and everybody else wouldn't make an 1/8 of a lap riding stewarts speed. hell you guys couldnt even get the scooter...
yer fuckin high my friend..you and everybody else wouldn't make an 1/8 of a lap riding stewarts speed. hell you guys couldnt even get the scooter goin that fast if you rode it off a cliff...who you trying to bullshit? Smile
Hahahaha... thank you for agreeing with me and restating my point in your own special way.

Just like I said, lots of people can go that speed. It's just a matter of how soon they will end up on their head. Me in 1/8 of a lap, like you said, and Stewart in about 3 or 4 laps from what we saw at Unadilla.
8/21/2012 7:26am
newmann wrote:
Stewarts problem is that he upped the pace. Now he's required to run it.
Rob_Miller wrote:
Exactly.
I should work on my post length cause Newmann just nailed it.
FARANG
Posts
861
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
8/21/2012 7:32am
newmann wrote:
Stewarts problem is that he upped the pace. Now he's required to run it.
That's a pretty fair assessment in terms of the root cause of the problem.

When you add in the injuries, concussions, distractions and mentality of James Stewart you realize that he's won his last championship. This year was the perfect chance with the injuries to RV, CR, TC, the only threat was Dungey who was on a brand new bike - and he still couldn't take it to the second half of the season.

I like watching him ride but I wonder how long his ego will allow him to continue finishing seasons in 4th, 5th, 6th place.

Boxers often talk about legacy and many of them damage it by carrying on too long, I hope Stewart doesn't go the Roy Jones/James Toney route in that regard, for the sake of his health as much as anything else.
jeffro503
Posts
27647
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
8/21/2012 8:03am
Lets also not forget that the track itself was one rutted out SOB! It claimed a few guys this past weekend. At round # 3 where James went down and hurt his wrist.....that track and that specific area had also claimed about 15 dudes ( or more ) through out the day ).

Either way........hope he heals up to 100% and we see some great racing come A1 !

I don't prey......but I hope that all these guys can make it through the off season healthy , and we FINALLY get to see this class ( 450's ) stacked up the way we were hoping for in 2012!!!
Tbteam
Posts
2869
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Ormond Beach, FL, USA
8/21/2012 8:04am Edited Date/Time 8/21/2012 8:04am
If I was the fastest guy in the world a few years back (laugh), and was one of the most heralded racers to ever be in the public eye, hailed as the next great champion since I was a little kid, I'd have a really tough time following around a couple of guys that I was pretty sure I could run away from.

Hence, the video shown in one of the other threads. I gotta get past these guys and show everyone what's up.

Stewart is still amazing, but his game plan is askew.
JLong
Posts
624
Joined
7/19/2010
Location
Haslet, TX, USA
8/21/2012 8:05am
newmann wrote:
Stewarts problem is that he upped the pace. Now he's required to run it.
Rob_Miller wrote:
Exactly.
I should work on my post length cause Newmann just nailed it.
Less is usually more. Good stuff!
Dezerted
Posts
637
Joined
11/10/2011
Location
Temecula, CA, USA
8/21/2012 8:10am
BobbyM wrote:
or....maybe his wrist is fucked up and still very painful to ride like he wants too..not too.many parts are more hammered and important to.ride than the...
or....maybe his wrist is fucked up and still very painful to ride like he wants too..not too.many parts are more hammered and
important to.ride than the hands/wrists.
Well then maybe James should let the fan base in on a secret like that! Every other rider lets the fans know that his/her _______ is injured and that recovery will be _______ long. With James you don't even know what he injured in Colorado so why would I assume that had anything to do with Unidilla. The kid gets do much hate but I'm of the opinion he brings a majority of it on himself with his poor communication skills with the fans of him and the sport.
BobbyM
Posts
21436
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
8/21/2012 8:16am
BobbyM wrote:
or....maybe his wrist is fucked up and still very painful to ride like he wants too..not too.many parts are more hammered and important to.ride than the...
or....maybe his wrist is fucked up and still very painful to ride like he wants too..not too.many parts are more hammered and
important to.ride than the hands/wrists.
Dezerted wrote:
Well then maybe James should let the fan base in on a secret like that! Every other rider lets the fans know that his/her _______ is...
Well then maybe James should let the fan base in on a secret like that! Every other rider lets the fans know that his/her _______ is injured and that recovery will be _______ long. With James you don't even know what he injured in Colorado so why would I assume that had anything to do with Unidilla. The kid gets do much hate but I'm of the opinion he brings a majority of it on himself with his poor communication skills with the fans of him and the sport.
what difference does that or would that make? nobody's gambling on these races are they? maybe he doesn't even know how fucked up it hurt until he went race speed. he doesn't owe shit to you or anybody else i don't think

you sound like a little bitch left at the punch bowl at the freshman prom..seriously.
thehuck.0
Posts
600
Joined
8/21/2012
Location
Mountain Home, AR, USA
8/21/2012 10:33am
adastra wrote:
I am a medical professional, and looking at the type and number of judgement errors and the number of crashes James Stewart had had recently, I...
I am a medical professional, and looking at the type and number of judgement errors and the number of crashes James Stewart had had recently, I strongly suspect that what we are seeing is neurological in nature His numerous concussions over his career have resulted in enoung sufficient and cumulative long-term damage that his balance and reflexes are now compromised, and will not allow him to race consistently at the level of his competition. Only time will tell, but I think the wonderful skills that Bubba once demonstrated will now only be fading memories.

Big Dog
HOLY SHIT....that is the most painful thing I've ever read. Obviously, being a "medical professional" doesn't require having even the most basic writing skills......
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol, GB
8/21/2012 10:48am
Taken from an RC interview in the latest MOTO magazine;

'Johnny O'Mara taught me a lot of the stuff I know. Like how to approach races and lots of different situations. I asked Johnny if he now tells James Stewart the same things he used to tell me, and he said yes. He tells him the exact same thing but he just doesn't listen.'

Post a reply to: Brotocross Thoughts on James' Crash

The Latest