Would you fix this?

FGR01
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FGR01 5/13/2012 9:15pm
5/13/2012 9:15pm
The moral of the story... never ride an aluminum framed bike without a skid plate.
mx5471
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mx5471 5/13/2012 9:39pm
5/13/2012 9:39pm
This is asinine. Everyone has advice, but no one wants to ride the bike after someone welds it. The first places frames crack, is at the rails by the engine mounts, then at the yoke. I know this is crash damage, but it is still broken. The point here is that if anyone sells a bike that they are afraid to ride, they shouldn't sell it to anyone without apprising them of why they are afraid to ride it. This sport is in it self, a dangerous sport. I couldn't sleep at night if I sold that bike to some one with the welded frame. I've been thru this before with these frames many times over the years. It is the reason why I'm gettin a new one for my son's bike. That's major damage, and the frame is totaled. A grand is not a lot of money, especially when someones safety is at stake. As I said, I don't think many welders would want the liability, if it broke and caused an injury, for the amount you would want to pay.
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 5/13/2012 10:08pm
5/13/2012 10:08pm
Calling AJ ... Opinion needed


re-weld or recycle ?
jeffro503
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jeffro503 5/13/2012 10:51pm
5/13/2012 10:51pm
mx5471 wrote:
This is asinine. Everyone has advice, but no one wants to ride the bike after someone welds it. The first places frames crack, is at the...
This is asinine. Everyone has advice, but no one wants to ride the bike after someone welds it. The first places frames crack, is at the rails by the engine mounts, then at the yoke. I know this is crash damage, but it is still broken. The point here is that if anyone sells a bike that they are afraid to ride, they shouldn't sell it to anyone without apprising them of why they are afraid to ride it. This sport is in it self, a dangerous sport. I couldn't sleep at night if I sold that bike to some one with the welded frame. I've been thru this before with these frames many times over the years. It is the reason why I'm gettin a new one for my son's bike. That's major damage, and the frame is totaled. A grand is not a lot of money, especially when someones safety is at stake. As I said, I don't think many welders would want the liability, if it broke and caused an injury, for the amount you would want to pay.
Dude.....I don't mean to sound like a jerk , but you obviously don't know what the hell you're even talking about!

1st of all.....the fucking frame is welded from the factory to begin with! You cut out the damaged part , replace it and then gusset it....it's stronger than it was from the factory! Are you going to sit here and tell me that it's impossible to make a frame "Stronger" than stock? Seriously....pull your head out of your ass.

YES.....you may even gain a couple lbs........but who gives a shit!

Service Honda COMPLETELY removes the entire front cradle from a stock frame and re-welds a new modified cradle on to fit the big two stroke motors! Do you think Service Honda doesn't know what they are doing? Are you going to tell me that ANY frame that has ever been repaired........people aren't thinking about their own safety?

Jesus Christ......reading your fucking post made me want to reach right through this monitor and strangle your ass. THINK about shit before you post it! And for Christs sake.....get your fucking facts strait before you go talking out of your ass any further!

The Shop

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IceMan446
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IceMan446 5/13/2012 11:28pm
5/13/2012 11:28pm Edited Date/Time 5/13/2012 11:31pm
Your frame could break at any point when you are riding. Crash or no crash, prior damage or no damage.

I would look for a replacement frame and then go from there. I broke a frame on my YZ80 and had it welded and it lasted, broke another one and got it replaced. So I guess its just a matter of preference.

But dont mislead someone when you go to sell it.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 5/14/2012 1:20am
5/14/2012 1:20am
Personally I would not reweld that frame there are many factors besides strength that go into welding a frame like that does aluminum frames are so sensitive that's even drilling a hole small in a random area can change the characteristics of the frame. I would most definitely replace a frame for many factors besides just the integrity and strength in my opinion n you may not notice it but the bike will not handle the same has it will not be able to flex into the tune that it was originally intended to based on the weld...... that's my 2 cents on it I'd find a used frame and replace it . I'm 100 percent sure aj at service honda knows what he's doing but in this case I think a replacement frame would be a much better idea did it do any damage to the cases?
Paul333
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Paul333 5/14/2012 4:20am
5/14/2012 4:20am
I would replace the frame.

I seriously doubt anybody is going to be able to repair it.
R-acer
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R-acer 5/14/2012 4:28am
5/14/2012 4:28am
I wouldnt want to own it with that kind of frame damage. sure it can be fixed, but I wouldnt want it
Bob454
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Bob454 5/14/2012 5:49am
5/14/2012 5:49am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2012 5:51am
jeffro503 wrote:
Dude.....I don't mean to sound like a jerk , but you obviously don't know what the hell you're even talking about! 1st of all.....the fucking frame...
Dude.....I don't mean to sound like a jerk , but you obviously don't know what the hell you're even talking about!

1st of all.....the fucking frame is welded from the factory to begin with! You cut out the damaged part , replace it and then gusset it....it's stronger than it was from the factory! Are you going to sit here and tell me that it's impossible to make a frame "Stronger" than stock? Seriously....pull your head out of your ass.

YES.....you may even gain a couple lbs........but who gives a shit!

Service Honda COMPLETELY removes the entire front cradle from a stock frame and re-welds a new modified cradle on to fit the big two stroke motors! Do you think Service Honda doesn't know what they are doing? Are you going to tell me that ANY frame that has ever been repaired........people aren't thinking about their own safety?

Jesus Christ......reading your fucking post made me want to reach right through this monitor and strangle your ass. THINK about shit before you post it! And for Christs sake.....get your fucking facts strait before you go talking out of your ass any further!
Finally someone with a bit of sense. That frame can be repaired easily by an experienced welder/fab guy. If/when you have it welded I would bolt your motor in the cradle to make sure it does not "pull" the mounts out of alignment. A welder will section then gusset that and make it stronger than ever. You guys need to do a bit of fab work before you go spredding your retarded opinions around. Take it to a shop and they will be glad to fix it.

For the guy who says that drilling a tiny hole in the frame will change the handling of the bike.....get real dude, you would never feel a difference. I never knew this place could be so clueless.
CASH476
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CASH476 5/14/2012 6:09am
5/14/2012 6:09am
Bob454 wrote:
Finally someone with a bit of sense. That frame can be repaired easily by an experienced welder/fab guy. If/when you have it welded I would bolt...
Finally someone with a bit of sense. That frame can be repaired easily by an experienced welder/fab guy. If/when you have it welded I would bolt your motor in the cradle to make sure it does not "pull" the mounts out of alignment. A welder will section then gusset that and make it stronger than ever. You guys need to do a bit of fab work before you go spredding your retarded opinions around. Take it to a shop and they will be glad to fix it.

For the guy who says that drilling a tiny hole in the frame will change the handling of the bike.....get real dude, you would never feel a difference. I never knew this place could be so clueless.
I would like to know where the fab shop will get a new curved section of that 5 sided extrusion that Honda uses. Sure it could be done but not as easy as some think.
Paul333
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Paul333 5/14/2012 6:18am
5/14/2012 6:18am
mx5471 wrote:
This is asinine. Everyone has advice, but no one wants to ride the bike after someone welds it. The first places frames crack, is at the...
This is asinine. Everyone has advice, but no one wants to ride the bike after someone welds it. The first places frames crack, is at the rails by the engine mounts, then at the yoke. I know this is crash damage, but it is still broken. The point here is that if anyone sells a bike that they are afraid to ride, they shouldn't sell it to anyone without apprising them of why they are afraid to ride it. This sport is in it self, a dangerous sport. I couldn't sleep at night if I sold that bike to some one with the welded frame. I've been thru this before with these frames many times over the years. It is the reason why I'm gettin a new one for my son's bike. That's major damage, and the frame is totaled. A grand is not a lot of money, especially when someones safety is at stake. As I said, I don't think many welders would want the liability, if it broke and caused an injury, for the amount you would want to pay.
Outstanding post, and spot on.
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 5/14/2012 6:25am
5/14/2012 6:25am
My kid has been racing for 7 years now his one and only ambulance ride was from his dumbass Dad having a shop (certified welder)weld a frame in a critical stress area like that. Cased a tall jump and snapped both downtubes above the pegs we thought he broke his back or pelvis. Just some internal bruising and muscle tears in stomach. That's an area I would not recommend welding.
mark_swart
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mark_swart 5/14/2012 6:52am
5/14/2012 6:52am
This thread was answered on page 1... ebay. Too easy. Most frame designs span a few years, it shouldn't be that hard to find one.
Bob454
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Bob454 5/14/2012 6:58am
5/14/2012 6:58am
Bob454 wrote:
Finally someone with a bit of sense. That frame can be repaired easily by an experienced welder/fab guy. If/when you have it welded I would bolt...
Finally someone with a bit of sense. That frame can be repaired easily by an experienced welder/fab guy. If/when you have it welded I would bolt your motor in the cradle to make sure it does not "pull" the mounts out of alignment. A welder will section then gusset that and make it stronger than ever. You guys need to do a bit of fab work before you go spredding your retarded opinions around. Take it to a shop and they will be glad to fix it.

For the guy who says that drilling a tiny hole in the frame will change the handling of the bike.....get real dude, you would never feel a difference. I never knew this place could be so clueless.
CASH476 wrote:
I would like to know where the fab shop will get a new curved section of that 5 sided extrusion that Honda uses. Sure it could...
I would like to know where the fab shop will get a new curved section of that 5 sided extrusion that Honda uses. Sure it could be done but not as easy as some think.
They are called fab shops for a reason.....
scooter5002
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scooter5002 5/14/2012 7:16am
5/14/2012 7:16am
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't be that big of an issue, if you have the right guy doing it. They just need to grind out the welds at the "y" and the footpeg and remove the damaged rail. Bend up a new rail, after building a template. Build a new motor mount. Build a jig to simulate the motor. Or just use the engine to place the mounts in, tack everything and pull the motor, Weld everything up, then watch the frame rail suck up because it shrinks as it cools and then you can't get the fuckin' motor back in. ( the George "I'm a Douchebag Fanelli" approved method) Going to have a LOT of heartache and hours into fixing that,
From a practical standpoint, replacing it is the easiest. Just buy another one and swap everything over. The entire frame might be tweaked after that little faux pas, and who has a jig to check that? Spend your money the right way, best bang for your buck.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 5/14/2012 8:34am
5/14/2012 8:34am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2012 8:34am
To the guys saying to throw the frame away : What do you say about Service Honda cutting out and removing the entire front cradle and then "Re-welding" a new one on in it's place?

Those re-weld jobs are holding up to 500cc two stroke motors in a lot of builds.

It makes entirely no sense to throw away a frame like that when someone who actually knows what they are doing can fix it. And again......I WOULD NOT take it to any local welding shop.....take it to a proven shop that had done modifications to these exact frames.

Sure would love to get AJ's opinion on this so he can shut up all the nay-sayer's.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 5/14/2012 8:36am
5/14/2012 8:36am
scooter5002 wrote:
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't...
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't be that big of an issue, if you have the right guy doing it. They just need to grind out the welds at the "y" and the footpeg and remove the damaged rail. Bend up a new rail, after building a template. Build a new motor mount. Build a jig to simulate the motor. Or just use the engine to place the mounts in, tack everything and pull the motor, Weld everything up, then watch the frame rail suck up because it shrinks as it cools and then you can't get the fuckin' motor back in. ( the George "I'm a Douchebag Fanelli" approved method) Going to have a LOT of heartache and hours into fixing that,
From a practical standpoint, replacing it is the easiest. Just buy another one and swap everything over. The entire frame might be tweaked after that little faux pas, and who has a jig to check that? Spend your money the right way, best bang for your buck.
Scooter......I didn't read your post until after i posted mine....you know me man....no dis-respect!

Just saying Service Honda doesn't need to make this job difficult......they have done it 1000's of times.
Scott167
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Scott167 5/14/2012 8:45am
5/14/2012 8:45am
Yes but that is a perfectly good frame they start with no? You have no idea what kind of stresses the frame was subjected to when he crashed and what kind of other negative effects it had on the material. There could be a whole lot of other weak points on that frame now that aren't obvious. Like someone else said it would be asinine to re use that frame.

Pit Row

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TX24
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TX24 5/14/2012 9:26am
5/14/2012 9:26am
I would look for one on Ebay. Not too many people need frames or swingarms.
scooter5002
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scooter5002 5/14/2012 9:28am
5/14/2012 9:28am
scooter5002 wrote:
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't...
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't be that big of an issue, if you have the right guy doing it. They just need to grind out the welds at the "y" and the footpeg and remove the damaged rail. Bend up a new rail, after building a template. Build a new motor mount. Build a jig to simulate the motor. Or just use the engine to place the mounts in, tack everything and pull the motor, Weld everything up, then watch the frame rail suck up because it shrinks as it cools and then you can't get the fuckin' motor back in. ( the George "I'm a Douchebag Fanelli" approved method) Going to have a LOT of heartache and hours into fixing that,
From a practical standpoint, replacing it is the easiest. Just buy another one and swap everything over. The entire frame might be tweaked after that little faux pas, and who has a jig to check that? Spend your money the right way, best bang for your buck.
jeffro503 wrote:
Scooter......I didn't read your post until after i posted mine....you know me man....no dis-respect! Just saying Service Honda doesn't need to make this job difficult......they have...
Scooter......I didn't read your post until after i posted mine....you know me man....no dis-respect!

Just saying Service Honda doesn't need to make this job difficult......they have done it 1000's of times.
No worries Fro. I certainly didn't read anything into what you said.
Thing is, with Service Honda, I doubt they'd fix it. They won't just mod a frame, they only sell a whole bike. That's their business model. Fair enough. They would likely only do a double rail replacement, if they did do it. Not to mention the possibility of unseen damage from the crash, adding to a "liability" issue. Welcome to the world we live in.
My 2 cents is just toss it, and get another one. Trust me, that's ALL my opinion is worth. If it was MY neck being risked on that bike, it's the route I would go. In a case like this, trying to go the cheapest route, should NOT be a deciding factor. For me, safety first.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 5/14/2012 9:41am
5/14/2012 9:41am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2012 9:42am
scooter5002 wrote:
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't...
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't be that big of an issue, if you have the right guy doing it. They just need to grind out the welds at the "y" and the footpeg and remove the damaged rail. Bend up a new rail, after building a template. Build a new motor mount. Build a jig to simulate the motor. Or just use the engine to place the mounts in, tack everything and pull the motor, Weld everything up, then watch the frame rail suck up because it shrinks as it cools and then you can't get the fuckin' motor back in. ( the George "I'm a Douchebag Fanelli" approved method) Going to have a LOT of heartache and hours into fixing that,
From a practical standpoint, replacing it is the easiest. Just buy another one and swap everything over. The entire frame might be tweaked after that little faux pas, and who has a jig to check that? Spend your money the right way, best bang for your buck.
jeffro503 wrote:
Scooter......I didn't read your post until after i posted mine....you know me man....no dis-respect! Just saying Service Honda doesn't need to make this job difficult......they have...
Scooter......I didn't read your post until after i posted mine....you know me man....no dis-respect!

Just saying Service Honda doesn't need to make this job difficult......they have done it 1000's of times.
scooter5002 wrote:
No worries Fro. I certainly didn't read anything into what you said. Thing is, with Service Honda, I doubt they'd fix it. They won't just mod...
No worries Fro. I certainly didn't read anything into what you said.
Thing is, with Service Honda, I doubt they'd fix it. They won't just mod a frame, they only sell a whole bike. That's their business model. Fair enough. They would likely only do a double rail replacement, if they did do it. Not to mention the possibility of unseen damage from the crash, adding to a "liability" issue. Welcome to the world we live in.
My 2 cents is just toss it, and get another one. Trust me, that's ALL my opinion is worth. If it was MY neck being risked on that bike, it's the route I would go. In a case like this, trying to go the cheapest route, should NOT be a deciding factor. For me, safety first.
Makes sense Scooter. Not sure exactly how fast the OP is or if he races that much. If it was my bike.....maybe I would do the same "unless" I had a shop like Service Honda say " Yeah we can fix it"........if they ( or some other mod shop like them ) said "no way...we can't fix it and trust it"......it would be going in the trash and I'd be looking for a new frame as well.
scooter5002
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scooter5002 5/14/2012 9:51am
5/14/2012 9:51am
Sucks for the guy, but what do you do? Err on the side of caution for me. My Dad always taught me, "Fix it right, and fix it ONCE." In this case, that's not really an option.
Just noticed the third line in your sig. Lol. Oh, the good times at Vital.
TheNewOriginal 5/14/2012 10:13am
5/14/2012 10:13am
greenebasterd wrote:
Jesus, stop bitchin ,Im a welder, like stated above its not rocket science,get the damn thing welded end of story unless you have money to waste...
Jesus, stop bitchin ,Im a welder, like stated above its not rocket science,get the damn thing welded end of story unless you have money to waste on a new frame.
Exactly. Assuming it is aluminum (not Ti), I could have already had it welded and back together in the time it has taken to argue about it. And yes, it can be made stronger that it was before. Should be very little flex there anyway given that the engine case ties the three different points together.
mxb2
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mxb2 5/14/2012 11:02am
5/14/2012 11:02am
Get a new one, being cheap is not really a choice when it comes to safety?
peelout
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peelout 5/14/2012 11:33am
5/14/2012 11:33am
blame four strokes. and obama.
MxSkillz
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MxSkillz 5/14/2012 11:43am
5/14/2012 11:43am
scooter5002 wrote:
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't...
As mentioned, sourcing the material will present an issue, you're not walking into a Honda dealer and ordering that at the parts counter. Fixing it won't be that big of an issue, if you have the right guy doing it. They just need to grind out the welds at the "y" and the footpeg and remove the damaged rail. Bend up a new rail, after building a template. Build a new motor mount. Build a jig to simulate the motor. Or just use the engine to place the mounts in, tack everything and pull the motor, Weld everything up, then watch the frame rail suck up because it shrinks as it cools and then you can't get the fuckin' motor back in. ( the George "I'm a Douchebag Fanelli" approved method) Going to have a LOT of heartache and hours into fixing that,
From a practical standpoint, replacing it is the easiest. Just buy another one and swap everything over. The entire frame might be tweaked after that little faux pas, and who has a jig to check that? Spend your money the right way, best bang for your buck.
jeffro503 wrote:
Scooter......I didn't read your post until after i posted mine....you know me man....no dis-respect! Just saying Service Honda doesn't need to make this job difficult......they have...
Scooter......I didn't read your post until after i posted mine....you know me man....no dis-respect!

Just saying Service Honda doesn't need to make this job difficult......they have done it 1000's of times.
jeffro.. nobody is doughting it can be re welded.. Service honda starts off with a new frame, cuts it at particular points, then re welds. They dont and pretty sure would never recommend reusing a frame that has chunks out of it from a crash that will no dought have stress in other places.. you may not see them, but they will surface at a bad time.

To do with princess toby.. he simply said he would reweld, and sell to someone else cause he could never ride it knowing what happened to it.. I called him out to be a tool.. cause he is.. does what he said really make any sense to you?? come on bro.. he wont ride it but he would let someone else? get real..

Bottem line, yes it can be welded.. the op wants to know if its worth fixing, its not and all you guys saying to weld it know its not.. because not one of you would ever feel safe on that bike again to ride it.. The funny thing is.. princess toby said fix it and sell it cause he could not ride it. knowing what happened to it, and you say fix it if you are a slower rider.. a faster rider shouldn't .. ??WTF

op.. get a new frame, cause apparently even the people telling you to weld it wouldn't even ride it.. i know op.. it didn't make sense to me either! morons
RMRider1
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RMRider1 5/14/2012 11:47am
5/14/2012 11:47am
Jakes Dad wrote:
My kid has been racing for 7 years now his one and only ambulance ride was from his dumbass Dad having a shop (certified welder)weld a...
My kid has been racing for 7 years now his one and only ambulance ride was from his dumbass Dad having a shop (certified welder)weld a frame in a critical stress area like that. Cased a tall jump and snapped both downtubes above the pegs we thought he broke his back or pelvis. Just some internal bruising and muscle tears in stomach. That's an area I would not recommend welding.
I'm no engineer but I do understand a lot about three words in this post above..."Critical Stress Area". There are no welds in this area from the factory for a reason...replace bra!
MiSledder
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MiSledder 5/14/2012 12:25pm
5/14/2012 12:25pm
If the 450 (07) frame is the same I know where there is one, Its a rolling chassis but he will sell the frame, PM if interested
Bob454
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Bob454 5/14/2012 12:45pm
5/14/2012 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2012 12:46pm
RMRider1 wrote:
I'm no engineer but I do understand a lot about three words in this post above...[b]"Critical Stress Area"[/b]. There are no welds in this area from...
I'm no engineer but I do understand a lot about three words in this post above..."Critical Stress Area". There are no welds in this area from the factory for a reason...replace bra!
Stupid post, utterly stupid.

@MxSkillz I would repair and ride this frame if it were mine, no questions asked. Just because you am make a bike pretty and shiny does not mean you know about "structural integrity". That is a low stress point on a frame, as said before the engine is bolted in three places around the damaged area, reducing the stress by a long shot. I will be willing to bet any reputable welding shop near you could do a bang up job on that frame for way less than a grand...
pecu_83
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pecu_83 5/14/2012 1:02pm
5/14/2012 1:02pm
That is a low stress point on a frame, as said before the engine is bolted in three places around the damaged area, reducing the stress by a long shot. I will be willing to bet any reputable welding shop near you could do a bang up job on that frame for way less than a grand...


Agreed.

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